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-   -   [GK] HP Screws its Printer Customers With Ink Cartridge Timebomb (https://www.overclock.net/forum/225-hardware-news/1611805-gk-hp-screws-its-printer-customers-ink-cartridge-timebomb.html)

frickfrock999 09-19-2016 10:08 AM




http://www.geek.com/news/hp-screws-scores-of-customers-with-ink-cartridge-timebomb-1671409/
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2471177/hp-confirms-that-its-printer-firmware-blocks-some-remanufactured-cartridges
Quote:
Recently, HP allegedly put a new twist on what a lot of people already thought was one of the biggest scams in the computer business. They pushed a firmware update to printers that caused all non-genuine ink cartridges in them to quit working on the same date.

On September 13, reports started pouring in from people who owned the same Envy printer as the content-looking woman above. Their ink, it seemed, was suddenly deemed unworthy by their printers. Complaints like this on HP’s tech support forums are nothing new, but the massive influx over the past week leaves little doubt that this is probably more than a coincidence.

A statement to Dutch media explained that HP does indeed take steps to block cartridges "to protect innovation and intellectual property".

DiNet 09-19-2016 10:31 AM

Makes sense, shocked that they are doing it just now

Sense in PoV for their printer division... as a business that makes most of its money from that.

JakdMan 09-19-2016 10:33 AM

Inovation............. All your focus is on the business end of things. On the consumer side we get half baked junk you cons

GingerJohn 09-19-2016 10:41 AM

Who buys ink cartridges anyway? It's cheaper just to buy a new printer.

Which tells you everything you need to know about the consumer printer market.

Crazy9000 09-19-2016 10:52 AM

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

girugamesh 09-19-2016 11:09 AM

So a corporation decides to destroy the functionality of a perfectly functioning device and it's not illegal?

...Oh wait! You can still use the printer as a paperweight or something, you just can't print with it. This is a firmware thing, so it's okay because it's software, only a filthy pirate or something would be mad at this, respect IP and all kthnx :^)

Lady Fitzgerald 09-19-2016 11:09 AM

This is just another variation of what HP has been doing for years. It's one reason I was forced to retire a perfectly good HP printer because it used chipped cartridges and I could no longer buy cartridges that weren't expired, even though they were in plentiful supply (the other reason was HP refused to make a Win 7 driver for it). This nonsense is one reason I've been boycotting HP for years (another being their pathetic customer "support").

TheDoug 09-19-2016 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Who buys ink cartridges anyway? It's cheaper just to buy a new printer


This ^^

azanimefan 09-19-2016 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

I have a really nice epson.

Snakecharmed 09-19-2016 11:49 AM

I bought a used but clean Xerox 6500DN color laser in 2013 for under $200 and never looked back. The black toner has been low for at least two years now. I bought a replacement toner cartridge over a year ago so I would have it ready to install when needed. I'm still waiting to put it in.

The only reason why people stock up on ink in the first place is because those damn inkjets waste about 1/16th of the cartridge every time you turn the stupid things on, shut them off, it rains outside, you flush the toilet, or if it's a Tuesday. Consumers need to dump inkjets altogether unless they need photo-quality prints. Even then, I'm not so sure that I wouldn't just send the images off to a reliable third party for printing.

chir 09-19-2016 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Who buys ink cartridges anyway? It's cheaper just to buy a new printer.

Which tells you everything you need to know about the consumer printer market.
Printers come with very small sample cartridges. The proper cartridges are much longer lasting, especially if there's an "XL" variant like Canons low-end models do. Still though, cartridge prices are a scam. You can buy a thing that resets the EEPROM or whatever, and refill the ink from a bottle if you find the right ink. Saves a crapton of money.

Or buy a proper laser, that works too I guess.

Lady Fitzgerald 09-19-2016 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

I have a really nice epson.

Nice Epson is an oxymoron. I've owned two Epson products—an inkjet printer and a flatbed scanner—and both were garbage. The inkjet heads were constantly getting clogged. I had to retime the scanner before every time I used it plus the UI was pretty bad. You couldn't give me anything from Epson except to use for target practice.

Lady Fitzgerald 09-19-2016 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakecharmed View Post

...I'm not so sure that I wouldn't just send the images off to a reliable third party for printing.

That's exactly what I used to do when I need a photo quality print after I first got a laser printer. I would just load the files on a USB stick and go the nearest Walgreens with a photo lab. In the long run, it is far cheaper unless you are making prints on an almost daily basis. I haven't needed any photo prints is several years, though.

Butthurt Beluga 09-19-2016 12:07 PM

Probably not good for me as the business that I work for sells mostly ink & toner supplies, most of which is not OEM HP cartridges.

It confuses me though, how can HP do this? There's relatively large re-manufactured toner companies, like MSE, that make reman. toner.
Isn't that pulling the rug out beneath other multi-million dollar businesses?

Lady Fitzgerald 09-19-2016 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chir View Post

...Or buy a proper laser, that works too I guess.

That is the best solution. Most laser printers are far more economical to use per page than an inkjet, even with the higher initial purchase price of the laser printer factored in.

GingerJohn 09-19-2016 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chir View Post

Still though, cartridge prices are a scam.

It would probably be cheaper to perfect the technology to either resurrect or clone Bob Ross and have him paint everything directly from your screen than it would be to buy official ink cartridges.

Snakecharmed 09-19-2016 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

That is the best solution. Most laser printers are far more economical to use per page than an inkjet, even with the higher initial purchase price of the laser printer factored in.

I remember back in 1994 when a top of the line HP DeskJet color was pushing $500 and a black and white HP LaserJet was a couple hundred above that. Having owned color inkjets right up until 2013, I was shocked at how little a color laser cost nearly 20 years later.

I know that color inkjets are dirt cheap now too (my Canon inkjet prior to my current color laser was $70), but what I paid for my color laser is nothing compared to the prices from back in the '90s. Totally worth it considering I spent another $80 on ink for that Canon before it gave me some print head error and I mothballed it.

chir 09-19-2016 12:24 PM

The cheapest Canon injket, MG2550 uses cartridges where the print head changes with the cartridge. Pretty great for being a $45 printer. Also calibrates itself with a calibration sheet + scan upon first installation. Having worked in a print lab, I think the picture quality is great, especially for the price. Replacement ink is aboutsies $60 in total for both XL cartridges that should last casual user at least several months. Good if you don't want to commit to a big color laser, or want relatively awesome small photos printed on a budget.

Then again, getting the pictures printed by a professional is better and cheaper so eh.

In all honesty, the inkjet printer business strategy should die. Terrible price gouging.

tpi2007 09-19-2016 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

This, this and this.



Another great feature of this business that some companies use, like Canon, for example, is when there is something wrong with the ink cartridges or some unknown error message, the multi-function ceases to function, period. The scanner part, which should be completely fine, refuses to work until you solve the ink problem.

Some printer makers get away with way more than they should be legally allowed to.

Snakecharmed 09-19-2016 12:34 PM

I will say that my Canon inkjet had fantastic print quality, but it wasn't worth the upkeep. I should also clarify that it wasn't a print head error, but some other replaceable hardware error that needed me to perform a series of troubleshooting steps before I could eventually do a factory reset, and it would only be good to go after I got another set of ink cartridges because I was out of ink yet again when the error happened. I swore that printer burned through that last set of ink cartridges after 10 power-on cycles in a year despite hardly printing anything on paper.

As for HP, my last HP angered me enough that I took a baseball bat to new cartridges that dried out for no good reason other than being past the expiration date on the packaging (these cartridges predated the generations when they set their cartridges to have a drop dead date). Inkjets and the entire business model behind them suck.

WolfssFang 09-19-2016 12:56 PM

As someone who works in a warehouse that only stocks/ships toners/cartridges this is nothing new. I would say about 85% of our warehouse floor is just for HP toners alone. HP came out with a new looking box design for all toners around 2008. Even though the previous boxes (2004-2007) are the exact same toners some HP printers will reject them just because of the date.

Off-topic but before working at my current job I had no idea that some toner sets could go for a couple thousand :O

mtcn77 09-19-2016 01:30 PM

That innovation is very important. People don't understand how "reproducible" printers are with evidence. I'd say they are more confidential than your own hand writing in a court of law. For what its worth, they are super cheap for the security they provide and trust me you will know when your life is on the line that your printer saved you. If ink turns invisible: you are in big trouble, my friend.biggrin.gif

bucdan 09-19-2016 01:31 PM

Once they do this to toner, I will say eff you too since we buy 3rd party toner to save money; it's not worth $250 per black toner when I can spend $70 for it and get just as many pages. Trying to get my company to transition to Canon imagerunners From HP Color Laserjets

Toner prices are as big of a scam as inkjets are and I hope Remanufactured cartridge companies live a long life. I have a favorite seller with the letters 'LD' in it. Rock solid.

I'm surprised there are some people here that support this tactic.

EDIT: What's up with the Inquier blocking ad blockers? I guess this is the new way to combat ad blockers? Feels like the episode from south park.

Renegadesl1 09-19-2016 01:46 PM

So am I the only one still using a good old Panasonic Dot Matrix, color ribbon and all?

That bad boy has been running since 91.... Man I am old.

GoLDii3 09-19-2016 01:54 PM

"HP is buying Samsung's printer business to disrupt the copier industry"

Particle 09-19-2016 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakecharmed View Post

Consumers need to dump inkjets altogether unless they need photo-quality prints. Even then, I'm not so sure that I wouldn't just send the images off to a reliable third party for printing.

As someone who works in that industry, I can quite plainly state that inkjet printers do not produce output comparable to proper silver halide printer output.

BinaryBummer 09-19-2016 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

Same here!

I have owned a few brothers and the last two I sold cause I didn't use them enough. The main thing i found with Lasers is don't buy those refilled cartridges. I am on my 5th high yield black and on the original drum. Keep it clean and maintain.

LancerVI 09-19-2016 04:56 PM

I bought an Epson Eco SuperTank Printer. Works great and tons of ink. Decent photo print too.

This thing prints and prints and prints and the ink just lasts!

Expensive upfront cost, but totally worth it after about a year of kids and wife printing on it.

wilykat 09-19-2016 06:10 PM

Geez last year I was looking at replacement printer. It came down to either HP 8600 or an Epson printer, wide format and scanner was needed. Glad I went with Epson.

It is going to really suck for stores and vendor that sells 3rd party ink carts, all those returns to handle. Especially stores that have no refund policy, they will quickly find out they can't offer straight exchange because even new and sealed 3rd party carts won't work anyway and customers who buys cheap ink will not pony up extra money to "upgrade" to genuine HP ink carts. RIP Staples and Office Max/Depot customer service...

Also I can see eBay sellers going down very fast! Bye-bye cheap ink, bye bye CIS kit, bye-bye long time eBay sellers who suddenly have to eat returned non-working carts and returned shipping cost. Plus the inevitable flood of "doesn't work" negs that can ruin the rating and lower the seller's rating to more restricted and expensive fees or even banned from selling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucdan View Post


EDIT: What's up with the Inquier blocking ad blockers? I guess this is the new way to combat ad blockers? Feels like the episode from south park.

Some browser has option to blacklist or whitelist javascript by site. If I find a site that refuses to work because of ad blocker, I blacklist the javascript support and it works without blocking the content. Just add www.theinquirer.net to the list.

I don't block because of annoying ads like many people, I block because virus can get through and trying to get compensated for viral infection through compromised ad server is next to impossible so I just block em. If a site wants me to whitelist them and allow ads through, they will need to front $500 to cover cleanup. The remainder will be refunded the day I can't use internet or when a way is found to permanently block all kinds of virus from getting through internet.

TheN00bBuilder 09-19-2016 06:36 PM

Ehh, I like Dell printers. HP does suck and I have a Photo"smart" C6300, but my $10 thrift shop Dell V515W works great. A little wasteful on ink, yes, but when its only $3 for black and $5 for color, I don't mind paying. Still using the original carts that came with it in the thrift store.

SpankyMcFlych 09-19-2016 06:38 PM

Don't worry guys the free market will straighten this all out and save the consumers. No need to regulate anything!

umeng2002 09-19-2016 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Don't worry guys the free market will straighten this all out and save the consumers. No need to regulate anything!

Funny you should say that since the DMCA is what would prevent the free-market from making another firmware option that doesn't do this.

Blameless 09-19-2016 07:17 PM

Stopped buying HP quite a while ago, but it's getting harder and harder to find manufacturers that don't pull this sort of crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

Funny you should say that since the DMCA is what would prevent the free-market from making another firmware option that doesn't do this.

"Free market" and "capitalism" take a lot of flak for problems that are often caused by decades of anti-competitive, mixed-economy, regulation.

Crazy9000 09-19-2016 07:19 PM

The free market would fix this... all people have to do is stop buying HP printers because of the DRM cartridges.

If people still buy them despite the DRM cartridges... it's apparently not really an issue, and shouldn't be regulated.

aweir 09-19-2016 07:20 PM

Quote:

On September 13, reports started pouring in from people who owned the same Envy printer as the content-looking woman above.

Not to be anal, but the photo in the original post clearly shows a laser toner printer, not an HP Envy.

THIS is the original photo...



BTW I got so fed up with the B.S. of dealing with ink (aligning/calibrating/priming/cleaning ect.) that I vowed to never again use an ink jet printer so I got myself a Brother laser printer. A $40 toner cartridge can get you 2,000 pages compared to 200 pages that you can get from an inkjet printer. Inkjet printers waste ink even when you're not printing. Nope.

The laser printer costs more but pays for itself many times over in toner. Plus you get full duplex, a document feeder and scanner, and network connectivity for a home office.

Mad Pistol 09-19-2016 07:37 PM

The alternative to this is printer prices going through the roof. You guys do realize that the majority of money in the printing industry is made on ink cartridges, right? Printers today are so cheap and do so much that the manufacturers literally bet on the fact that you will buy a cheap printer and then spend a ton on ink.

mtcn77 09-19-2016 07:39 PM

You guys sure you are using the right synonym of pedantic?

GreatChicken 09-19-2016 07:42 PM

Is this only for this particular printer? I thought Brother and Canon were the ones doing this, and HPs were refillable.

Bold Eagle 09-19-2016 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

Not to be anal, but the photo in the original post clearly shows a laser toner printer, not an HP Envy.

THIS is the original photo...



BTW I got so fed up with the B.S. of dealing with ink (aligning/calibrating/priming/cleaning ect.) that I vowed to never again use an ink jet printer so I got myself a Brother laser printer. A $40 toner cartridge can get you 2,000 pages compared to 200 pages that you can get from an inkjet printer. Inkjet printers waste ink even when you're not printing. Nope.

The laser printer costs more but pays for itself many times over in toner. Plus you get full duplex, a document feeder and scanner, and network connectivity for a home office.

Have to agree neither of those like like credible sources and of great validity.

With that being said though all print manufacturers purposely CODE (updates or firmware) that tell you to buy consumables far more often and frequent than is actually required - and it isn't hard to find ways to "switch them off" or diffuse them.

I work for the Australian Fed. Govt and even with our large scale MFD (ApeosPort V C5575) were told to "just ignore the prompts" for "toner needs replacing", etc.

They all try and "rip us off" - google and learn how to disable the "false positives".

XAslanX 09-19-2016 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

Never had any issues with the Brother laser printers I own and will continue to use them as my primary printer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Who buys ink cartridges anyway? It's cheaper just to buy a new printer.

Which tells you everything you need to know about the consumer printer market.

This is why I use a continuous ink supply system on my two older HP printers. And if I do run into an issue with a cartridge, I just grab a recycled two pack off ebay for $10 - $15 (depending on black or color) and if they don't work right, the company has sent me replacements free of charge. So I have not and will not support HP directly anymore.

I will never touch a printer that has a programmed chip on the cartridges ever again. Had an Epson printer that had those and had a chip re setter for when I refilled them, such a pain in the ass, never again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerVI View Post

I bought an Epson Eco SuperTank Printer. Works great and tons of ink. Decent photo print too.

This thing prints and prints and prints and the ink just lasts!

Expensive upfront cost, but totally worth it after about a year of kids and wife printing on it.

I have considered getting one of those, but that steep price point throws it out the window for me. I'll just keep using my old HP printers with CISS and cheap ink from amazon /ebay for my color printing needs until those come down to a price I can afford.

wilykat 09-19-2016 08:01 PM

Haven't had Dell printer since they bought out Lexmark. I've avoided Lexmark like plague because it wastes a lot of ink and it is prone to clogging and jamming if it hasn't been used for a while. It may be fine for business who prints a lot but for private use, it's more expensive in the long run.

Lady Fitzgerald 09-19-2016 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilykat View Post

Haven't had Dell printer since they bought out Lexmark. I've avoided Lexmark like plague because it wastes a lot of ink and it is prone to clogging and jamming if it hasn't been used for a while. It may be fine for business who prints a lot but for private use, it's more expensive in the long run.

I've avoided Lexmark ever since the IT department at the company I get my retirement package from replaced the old HP I had just authorized the purchase of a replacement toner cart. for with a used Lexmark that also needed a replacement toner cart. and found out how much Lexmark consumables were. Another department I worked in later bought a Lexmark 3 in 1 and it constantly gave us problems in addition to being expensive to feed.

Defoler 09-20-2016 12:07 AM

TBH my local shops sell original HP cartridges cheaper than the knock off/aftermarket ones.

goldman11 09-20-2016 02:54 AM

HP printers? people still buy those? I never want to see another HP printer ever again, or any other inkjet printer, All the printers I had were HP and none of them worked properly - their AIO software makes you want to smash the whole thing with a hammer absolutely the most useless software I ever laid eyes upon if it even decides to work or install that is, don't even get me started on their cartridges I'd have to write a whole article to express my anger with those useless cartridges that drip half the ink when they aren't used.

Bought a Samsung M2070F and I'm amazed how great it works, had it up and running in less than 10 minutes and printed around 750 pages with the toner that came with it which is supposedly enough for 500 according to the specs.

I'm not even surprised they would do this with the cartridges, it is almost like they want people to hate their printers or something, Thank god I didn't get another HP or I'd still be stuck trying to install their crappy software or trying to get it to even recognize I have a printer connected, after my last HP printer I vowed to never again buy any of their printers.

Blameless 09-20-2016 04:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

The alternative to this is printer prices going through the roof.

And that would be a preferable alternative.

If inkjet printers cost ten times as much as they do now (and they used to) and ink was sold at double manufacturing cost (under a tenth of what name brand ink costs now) heavy users of printers would still save money before a year had passed. It's absurd that the print heads are even part of an ink cartridge. The ones on cartridges will last for twenty times as much ink as they come with, if taken care of, and permanent ones built into a quality printer could last ten times longer than that. They should be selling ink by the liter for $20.

Sure, I can buy a new printer every time one goes on sale and never buy ink or toner, but that's still more expensive in the long run than it should be, not to mention grossly wasteful.

SwishaMane 09-20-2016 04:50 AM

I was given a printer years ago, and sold it for $5... Haven't owned a printer other than the few days i had that one. LOL, if i need to print anything, I'll do it at work. smile.gif

mtcn77 09-20-2016 07:06 AM

With all the printed media consumption, enjoy your daily dioxin intake.

clao 09-20-2016 08:07 AM

*** is so innovative about ink cartridges

Fractal Design 09-20-2016 08:40 AM

I've been using Oki laser printers for ages now. They're not exactly consumer oriented and the site/software/documentation pretty much assumes you're an IT pro, but they're a built like a brick **** house, jam about once every other year, and give you a few thousand pages on a $30 toner cartridge. Their dot matrix printers could probably take a nuclear blast without voiding the warranty.

KyadCK 09-20-2016 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

This is just another variation of what HP has been doing for years. It's one reason I was forced to retire a perfectly good HP printer because it used chipped cartridges and I could no longer buy cartridges that weren't expired, even though they were in plentiful supply (the other reason was HP refused to make a Win 7 driver for it). This nonsense is one reason I've been boycotting HP for years (another being their pathetic customer "support").

It won't help with the cartridge problem, but PCL 5&6 Universal drivers. Done.

To be honest I didn't know people still use printer-specific drivers anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldman11 View Post

HP printers? people still buy those? I never want to see another HP printer ever again, or any other inkjet printer, All the printers I had were HP and none of them worked properly - their AIO software makes you want to smash the whole thing with a hammer absolutely the most useless software I ever laid eyes upon if it even decides to work or install that is, don't even get me started on their cartridges I'd have to write a whole article to express my anger with those useless cartridges that drip half the ink when they aren't used.

Bought a Samsung M2070F and I'm amazed how great it works, had it up and running in less than 10 minutes and printed around 750 pages with the toner that came with it which is supposedly enough for 500 according to the specs.

I'm not even surprised they would do this with the cartridges, it is almost like they want people to hate their printers or something, Thank god I didn't get another HP or I'd still be stuck trying to install their crappy software or trying to get it to even recognize I have a printer connected, after my last HP printer I vowed to never again buy any of their printers.

Again, Universals.

Either way, HP is the name in business class printers. Finding someone that doesn't have an HP is extremely rare.

Exostenza 09-20-2016 09:55 AM

Best advice in the printer world I ever got was, "if you want a printer without all the BS just get a Brother." Since buying a brother printer I have had zero issues. I will stick will Brother for the foreseeable future.

Faster_is_better 09-20-2016 10:18 AM

If you aren't using your color printer very regularly it's not worth owning (maybe not worth it in any case rolleyes.gif) You can go get decent color prints from the kiosk machines at Walmart for those random occasions, and just get a Brother laser printer to print everything else at home.

goldman11 09-21-2016 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

It won't help with the cartridge problem, but PCL 5&6 Universal drivers. Done.

To be honest I didn't know people still use printer-specific drivers anymore.
Again, Universals.

Either way, HP is the name in business class printers. Finding someone that doesn't have an HP is extremely rare.

You still need to use their horrendous HP solution center to use the printer fully with the PC(AIO printers at least), so that universal driver just 'might' fix the printer detection issue but it still won't fix their crappy software, and I'm almost certain I installed that universal driver at some point in the countless hours I spent attempting to constantly fix issues with their software/drivers and it didn't help at all ,not that it matters anyway since that useless printer is collecting dust in a box right now.

And that's the saddest part of it all, their printers are everywhere but they won't even lift a finger to update their 20 year old software that a lot of people have issues with, well I vote with my wallet.

tpi2007 09-21-2016 06:03 AM

The news piece below is interesting, supposedly this happened to people because HP cunningly put the September deadline in a March firmware update but didn't tell anyone back then so more people would install it. Six months later and the complaints start pouring in. Exactly how well does HP think that this will pan out in consumers' minds? As the article points out, the financials of being in the consumer printer industry aren't looking good, but moves like this only make the company go down without any dignity. Downsize with dignity or go down without. For some reason some companies still think that they can get away with behaviour like this.

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/235988-hp-inkjet-printers-refuse-to-accept-third-party-ink-cartridges-after-firmware-update
Quote:
HP launched the latest salvo in this effort earlier this month, when a six-month-old firmware update suddenly kicked in and locked out third-party ink cartridges.

Quote:
Revenue in printer sales has been sliding, and “Supplies” constitutes 67% of HP’s income. Sales were down 14% year-on-year compared with 2015, commercial hardware fell 13%, and consumer hardware fell 46%. A company built on printers is seeing its sales collapse as most people don’t buy printers anymore. That’s problematic in the best of times. For the split HP, bereft of its cushy enterprise revenue, it’s downright disastrous.

Unfortunately, high profile moves like this are only going to backfire in the long-term. HP may well record a temporary revenue bump thanks to its sabotage, but the customers whose hardware it spontaneously broke aren’t going to remember it with love for the favor of paying huge mark-ups on microliters of ink that’s indistinguishable from high-quality third-party brands.

KyadCK 09-21-2016 06:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldman11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

It won't help with the cartridge problem, but PCL 5&6 Universal drivers. Done.

To be honest I didn't know people still use printer-specific drivers anymore.
Again, Universals.

Either way, HP is the name in business class printers. Finding someone that doesn't have an HP is extremely rare.

You still need to use their horrendous HP solution center to use the printer fully with the PC(AIO printers at least), so that universal driver just 'might' fix the printer detection issue but it still won't fix their crappy software, and I'm almost certain I installed that universal driver at some point in the countless hours I spent attempting to constantly fix issues with their software/drivers and it didn't help at all ,not that it matters anyway since that useless printer is collecting dust in a box right now.

And that's the saddest part of it all, their printers are everywhere but they won't even lift a finger to update their 20 year old software that a lot of people have issues with, well I vote with my wallet.

I have never once seen the Universals fail. Old as balls printers use PCL5, everything else PCL6. Run the installer, point it at the IP (or install as PnP mode), done. HP isn't the only one with PCL Universals either, Ricoh's work perfectly as well. Everyone else in the industry should have them too.

When in doubt, WinKey > Print Management > Printer Servers > Computer Name > Drivers, remove all so you have no driver conflicts and start fresh with the PCLs. Alternatively, Devices and Printers > Advanced Tab > Driver drop-down, pick the one you want.

The days of printers maybe kinda working are pretty much gone, provided you ignore the driver disk it came with as much as you ignore the ones that come with GPUs.

goldman11 09-21-2016 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

I have never once seen the Universals fail. Old as balls printers use PCL5, everything else PCL6. Run the installer, point it at the IP (or install as PnP mode), done. HP isn't the only one with PCL Universals either, Ricoh's work perfectly as well. Everyone else in the industry should have them too.

When in doubt, WinKey > Print Management > Printer Servers > Computer Name > Drivers, remove all so you have no driver conflicts and start fresh with the PCLs. Alternatively, Devices and Printers > Advanced Tab > Driver drop-down, pick the one you want.

The days of printers maybe kinda working are pretty much gone, provided you ignore the driver disk it came with as much as you ignore the ones that come with GPUs.

Been a while so I don't remember what I tried, either way none of that would help because it was rarely a driver issue since windows would detect it instantly and print test pages with no issue it was always an issue with their useless HP solution center software that you gotta use or half the printer is useless, no amount of troubleshooting would get it to work - different printers years apart same issues over and over again, the software is just garbage.

There really is no excuse and they should have remade their whole software from scratch a long time ago they can certainly afford it, nobody should waste so much time troubleshooting their crappy software, and now this whole cartridges thing - pff I won't use another HP printer even if they gave me their latest inkjet model for free.

Those days are gone yea as long as the printer isn't HP thumb.gif.

KyadCK 09-21-2016 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldman11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

I have never once seen the Universals fail. Old as balls printers use PCL5, everything else PCL6. Run the installer, point it at the IP (or install as PnP mode), done. HP isn't the only one with PCL Universals either, Ricoh's work perfectly as well. Everyone else in the industry should have them too.

When in doubt, WinKey > Print Management > Printer Servers > Computer Name > Drivers, remove all so you have no driver conflicts and start fresh with the PCLs. Alternatively, Devices and Printers > Advanced Tab > Driver drop-down, pick the one you want.

The days of printers maybe kinda working are pretty much gone, provided you ignore the driver disk it came with as much as you ignore the ones that come with GPUs.

Been a while so I don't remember what I tried, either way none of that would help because it was rarely a driver issue since windows would detect it instantly and print test pages with no issue it was always an issue with their useless HP solution center software that you gotta use or half the printer is useless, no amount of troubleshooting would get it to work - different printers years apart same issues over and over again, the software is just garbage.

There really is no excuse and they should have remade their whole software from scratch a long time ago they can certainly afford it, nobody should waste so much time troubleshooting their crappy software, and now this whole cartridges thing - pff I won't use another HP printer even if they gave me their latest inkjet model for free.

Those days are gone yea as long as the printer isn't HP thumb.gif.

You can hate if you want, but that is not reality. Your two or three printers do not compete with the thousands we have on site.

I never need to use Software Center because if I want to scan, I either pick "Scan to email" or "scan to computer" (via USB), both on the printer itself, which opens up in Windows Fax and Scan or import, completely avoiding the software. This sounds like user error if I'm honest, or perhaps pre-Win7, because it's completely possible to use an HP printer to the fullest without even installing the software.

I will give you that Inkjets are terrible, but who honestly has a non-laser printer these days if they have an option? Toner is so much cheaper per-page, for every brand, and business class printers are easier to maintain as they aren't made to be disposable.

Gamer_Josh 09-21-2016 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

...perfect the technology to either resurrect or clone Bob Ross and have him paint everything directly from your screen...

Someone please make this happen. I would choose that over a printer. Serene, calming, and enjoyable. I'm gonna go watch some Bob Ross: Beauty is Everywhere on Netflix now....

ltpdttcdft 09-21-2016 06:29 PM

Just got a continuous ink supply system with auto-reset chips for our HP. Thanks for the warning to not update the firmware! Hated the expiration chips.

Black and white laser ftw... Mainly using a Brother HL-5370DW, third party cartridges good for 8K pages cost around $12-$16, and when it "runs out" you can move a simple mechanical reset gear back to the "new" position, a 5-minute fix with a Phillips screw driver.

dagget3450 09-21-2016 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You can hate if you want, but that is not reality. Your two or three printers do not compete with the thousands we have on site.

I never need to use Software Center because if I want to scan, I either pick "Scan to email" or "scan to computer" (via USB), both on the printer itself, which opens up in Windows Fax and Scan or import, completely avoiding the software. This sounds like user error if I'm honest, or perhaps pre-Win7, because it's completely possible to use an HP printer to the fullest without even installing the software.

I will give you that Inkjets are terrible, but who honestly has a non-laser printer these days if they have an option? Toner is so much cheaper per-page, for every brand, and business class printers are easier to maintain as they aren't made to be disposable.

I am a Field Technician for a print management company. I cover a zone of clients, some of which have thousands of printers. They are almost all HP, have a few oddball lexmarks and what not. It's a love and hate relationship for me. After working in the field for many years, i personally prefer to work on HP printers. I am getting intimately familiar with a wide range of models, and with this experience i feel the drivers are the weakest link for HP. While universal drivers are pretty much the normal implementation in large companies. I still have my days where i get sapped with driver related issues. The biggest being printing from browsers. At any rate i for the most part agree with your statement in regards to ink vs toner. I guess it comes down to personal use, as for business it's usually just documents and whatnot. Personal use may need more near photo quality for pictures and the like. This might be where ink comes ahead over toner in general and price perhaps?

Majin SSJ Eric 09-21-2016 09:11 PM

I can't stand stuff like this and HP (and other printer manufacturers) should really be stopped for doing nothing more than price-gouging at this point when it comes to ink. That said, I love my HP Officejet Pro 8600 wireless printer so much I actually went out a couple weeks ago and purchased new ink for it at the store ($60 for just the colored inks, already had an XL black cartridge). It sucks, there's no question, but the printer itself is brilliant and I print things so rarely that the cartridges last me over a year at least.

dagget3450 09-23-2016 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I can't stand stuff like this and HP (and other printer manufacturers) should really be stopped for doing nothing more than price-gouging at this point when it comes to ink. That said, I love my HP Officejet Pro 8600 wireless printer so much I actually went out a couple weeks ago and purchased new ink for it at the store ($60 for just the colored inks, already had an XL black cartridge). It sucks, there's no question, but the printer itself is brilliant and I print things so rarely that the cartridges last me over a year at least.
They have been in trouble in the past for these type of issues. I know they once tried to lockdown laser printers with firmware to lockout non hp toners. Pretty sure they lost that battle because it was stated they wanted to void warranty if you used non hp toners. If i recall they changed it to just warns you its non hp now.

Liranan 09-23-2016 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I can't stand stuff like this and HP (and other printer manufacturers) should really be stopped for doing nothing more than price-gouging at this point when it comes to ink. That said, I love my HP Officejet Pro 8600 wireless printer so much I actually went out a couple weeks ago and purchased new ink for it at the store ($60 for just the colored inks, already had an XL black cartridge). It sucks, there's no question, but the printer itself is brilliant and I print things so rarely that the cartridges last me over a year at least.

What happened to the free market? This is what you were cheering on in the misguided Lenovo/M$py thread so how could you not stand this?


Majin SSJ Eric 09-23-2016 07:20 PM

As I said, I still bought the printer and it is a great product itself. Grow up dude, just because I believe in the free market doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with everything any and all big corporations do, nor does it mean that I disagree with all governmental regulation when it is warranted. The whole ink situation with printers these days is a rip off and its almost industry-wide. Nothing wrong with the government stepping in with legislation to limit what is obviously a predatory practice. And again, that's just my opinion (people are free to disagree with me without hounding me in every thread like some of you guys are starting to do)...

Master__Shake 09-23-2016 08:02 PM

still not as bad as epson who screwed everyone by saying their 200 dollar ink cartridge is empty...but not really.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2984172/printers/printer-cartridges-epson-flags-as-empty-still-have-a-lot-of-ink-in-the-tank.html

Majin SSJ Eric 09-23-2016 08:12 PM

Yeah, that's just fraud right there.

Master__Shake 09-23-2016 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Yeah, that's just fraud right there.

yep. yep it is.

i'll stick to laser printers.

just bought 10 toners with drums for 90 dollars. CAD.

i don't care if they are starter toners or not.

still cheaper than attempting to buy a inkjet cartridge.

fun fact.

black ink from printers is 2700 dollars US a gallon.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/higgypop/top-10-most-expensive-liquids-on-earth-6qcr

dagget3450 09-23-2016 08:42 PM

Ink has always been insanely higher cost per page than toner. Toner has a higher up front investment cost but over time is way more cost effective. Ink is usually a lower initial cost but is less efficient(smaller amounts) and costs more in the short or long run. The thing is even still there are machines(laser printers) that are way more cost effective over other models. Most color laser printers though have way lower capacity and costly, but still cheaper then Ink. However your not going to get the photo quality on many laser printers against ink either. Guess its not a cut and dry solution for everyone or a one size fits all. Depends on the needs - I am lucky because i have access to toners and laser printers for free practically. Doesn't hurt i can scavenge parts and fix them either. this mean absolute jack to anyone else though.

I always try to advocate laser printing over ink if its for general use.

SpykeZ 09-23-2016 08:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

This is why I only buy Brother printers, and make sure my work does too.

My mom was set on keeping her ink jet printer from Lexmark and I made her buy a Brother toner printer, she LOVES it.

Majin SSJ Eric 09-23-2016 09:00 PM

Are these laser printers color though?

Master__Shake 09-23-2016 09:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Are these laser printers color though?

mine are all black.

Lady Fitzgerald 09-23-2016 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

As I said, I still bought the printer and it is a great product itself. Grow up dude, just because I believe in the free market doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with everything any and all big corporations do, nor does it mean that I disagree with all governmental regulation when it is warranted. The whole ink situation with printers these days is a rip off and its almost industry-wide. Nothing wrong with the government stepping in with legislation to limit what is obviously a predatory practice. And again, that's just my opinion (people are free to disagree with me without hounding me in every thread like some of you guys are starting to do)...

You are getting hounded because your "opinions" are inconsistent.

Liranan 09-24-2016 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

As I said, I still bought the printer and it is a great product itself. Grow up dude, just because I believe in the free market doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with everything any and all big corporations do, nor does it mean that I disagree with all governmental regulation when it is warranted. The whole ink situation with printers these days is a rip off and its almost industry-wide. Nothing wrong with the government stepping in with legislation to limit what is obviously a predatory practice. And again, that's just my opinion (people are free to disagree with me without hounding me in every thread like some of you guys are starting to do)...

First you promote fascism then you rail against it. Double think and double speak at its best.


ENTERPRISE 09-24-2016 10:56 AM

Guys, Lets please keep it chill in here :)


damtachoa 09-24-2016 03:55 PM

Hahahaha. Who buy HP nowadays? It's a garbage printer. I have Brother printer too. I've been using it for 6 years now. No problem or issues. It's cheap on price and refill. thumb.gif

Brother is All The Way!!!!

cmpxchg8b 09-24-2016 08:24 PM

I had HP LaserJet 5L back when laser printers were still a new thing in the home segment. It was actually pretty awesome, and very cheap in terms of toner refill. I bought a can of 3rd party toner for dirt cheap, good for multiple refills. Never even bothered buying a new cartridge, just refilled it myself with toner. As a student I was printing a lot and it costed me almost nothing, way less than ink printers. The printer itself was expensive though.

Nowadays I have Brother 2230 which I bought for $50. Works well for few years already, however my printing needs are tiny. Replaced the cartridge only once.

RipperLord 09-24-2016 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Are these laser printers color though?

Yeap, mine is. Dollar for dollar, an inkjet will produce a better picture quality, but if you only require it occasionally, a laser is much better. I print off maybe 50-100 pages a year and paid more for a laser, but at least I know my cartridges won't be dry next time I decide to print something off.

awdrifter 09-24-2016 09:24 PM

This is why you never update firmware on anything unless you have a use for a new feature or something.

Lady Fitzgerald 09-24-2016 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

This is why you never update firmware on anything unless you have a use for a new feature or something.

And when you do update, it's a good idea to make an image of your System so you can easily revert in case things go south.

Defoler 09-25-2016 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by damtachoa View Post

Hahahaha. Who buy HP nowadays? It's a garbage printer. I have Brother printer too. I've been using it for 6 years now. No problem or issues. It's cheap on price and refill. thumb.gif

Brother is All The Way!!!!

The one brother printer that I had during my university studies, had so many issues and inconsistency printing quality, that I ended up throwing it away.
I ended up getting a printer from HP. I still use it. So far 8 years and counting, all good.

Alvarez 09-25-2016 01:04 AM

HP is garbage.

I bought what.. 4 HP printers so far ? All of them were equally garbage. The reason why I bought (more like HAD to) them, while knowing they will cease to function after a year of purchase, was the fact the fact HP is leading garbage company in where I live, so every tech store were selling HP printers and crap, not anything else.

I still have OffijetPro printer (laser, might I add), the print quality is very good (I even used it to print covers) but the maintenance, constant connection issues, paper jams, firmware problems are annoying. Each time I want to print something, i have to deal either with PC - Printer connection, or paper jam, or scan problem and so on. Sometimes I just want to throw it out of the window, but I realise that I'm a student and can't afford another laser printer.

Another thing I realized is the fact that EVERY HP printer I've purchased gone wild after ONE YEAR of use. Regular or rare doesn't matter, something happens after 1 year and printer goes broken.

Omega X 09-25-2016 01:12 AM

How the hell did a sewing machine company become the last bastion for a good printer.

 

I have a Canon but the ink clogs after a while and takes forever to recover. I'll be looking at a Brother printer in the future though.


tpi2007 09-27-2016 09:14 AM

For those that had doubts that this indeed happened, here is the confirmation:
Quote:
The American technology company told Dutch technology site PCM that the rejection of non-HP cartridges is deliberate. The company planned for it last year, “In 2015 HP started with the implementation of updates in firmware related to the security chip in the HP OfficeJet, OfficeJet Pro and OfficeJet Pro X printers.”

HP also added that, “in many cases the changes were pre-programmed in the HP printer and in some case installed as part of a printer firmware update.”

A week ago, on the 13th of September, several HP printer types started to reject non-HP ink cartridges. Online ink retailer 123inkt.nl found that HP pre-programmed a date in its firmware on which private label, non-HP ink cartridges would no longer be accepted.

http://www.myce.com/news/hp-admits-rejecting-non-hp-ink-cartridges-deliberate-planned-wont-release-fix-80511/

awdrifter 09-29-2016 10:45 AM

Maybe someone will make a custom firmware for HP printers so you can use unsigned ink.

tpi2007 09-29-2016 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

Maybe someone will make a custom firmware for HP printers so you can use unsigned ink.

They, HP, are doing it now, they backtracked. A firmware to reverse the lock will be made available within two weeks. They say that they may do it again in the future, but I doubt it, it's probably just PR speech to please stockholders. The backlash of people recommending other printer brands must have stopped them for good.

http://www.techspot.com/news/66507-hp-apologizes-blocking-third-party-ink-cartridges-printers.html

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/236476-hp-will-restore-third-party-ink-cartridge-compatibility-for-now-reserves-right-to-revoke-it-in-the-future

What I still don't like is how these multinationals many times bring up the "confusion" argument when trying to explain themselves like they did here (see in the second link above). It feels insulting, honestly.

I always read it as "The consumers - that horde of confused people that need enlightenment from us." There was no confusion; if they want to protect consumers from third party or counterfeit cartridges, they can keep the current system but without locking out the competition. They just need to put a message on the printer's screen / on the driver saying that the just installed cartridge is not a genuine HP product and ask if people want to use it, with the answer resetting itself after each cartridge removal.

Vadim Cristea 12-25-2019 02:45 AM

They are still doing that in 2019, I know what I am talking about

Hwgeek 12-25-2019 03:08 AM

I have got rid of the HP printers, and bought new Epson L3050 with the Refillable Cartridges, they already come with enough ink for the printers lifetime, 70ml for each color + 3x 70ml black ink in the box.
also each bottle only cost ~$15 and that's crazy cheap for genuine ink per ml.
https://technuggets.biz/wp-content/u...pson-l3050.jpg

speed_demon 12-25-2019 03:28 AM

I stick to Brother printers myself. Have had mine for many years and no issues to speak of.

Also, thread necro. Lol.

skupples 12-25-2019 06:04 AM

I've had 3 cartless epsons clog up from lack of use. only could restore flow on one of them. Now then, if they have proper priming/cleaning features now? much better product. Or even squeezable tanks would help.

Shawnb99 12-25-2019 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skupples (Post 28251334)
I've had 3 cartless epsons clog up from lack of use. only could restore flow on one of them. Now then, if they have proper priming/cleaning features now? much better product. Or even squeezable tanks would help.



That’s the gimmick with those printers. Enough ink for a lifetime but better use it in a month or it’ll clog up from lack of use.
Enough Ink for a year but it expires in a month.

Printer ink is such a rip off

skupples 12-25-2019 09:30 AM

i just stick to printing as infrequently as humanly possible, in gray scale. It's the best way. It's the same reason i had blades instead of skateboards as a kid. Gotta save the treeees.

otherwise? ask someone that works in an office to run off some laser color for you, if you don't have access yourself.

ltpdttcdft 12-25-2019 12:10 PM

Inkjet = dumpster fire.
Black & white lasers are now extremely cheap to buy and run.

Only problem left is color.

Can anyone recommend a reliable, low TCO color laser/LED/other powdered toner based printer (no liquid ink) in 2019?
Preferably without suicide chips? Extra points for a healthy aftermarket supplies market, especially for the toners and transfer drums/belts.

skupples 12-25-2019 03:41 PM

^ brother color laserjet. They won't be cheap, but it'll be the last printer you ever buy.

only suicide chip is in the drums, and you can reset those from ui.

Hydroplane 12-25-2019 04:42 PM

My last printer was an HP color laserjet... gave it away on Craigslist in 2015 and frankly the guy who took it away was doing me a favor. It was worth less than 0 dollars to me, it was such a piece of junk. For the once a year I still actually need to print something, I do it at work.

delerious 12-25-2019 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnb99 (Post 28251484)
That’s the gimmick with those printers. Enough ink for a lifetime but better use it in a month or it’ll clog up from lack of use.
Enough Ink for a year but it expires in a month.

Printer ink is such a rip off

Almost as bad, my Epson photo printers would need a cartridge replacement and after replacing it, I would watch the remaining cartridges levels drop when charging the new one. It was cheaper to replace multiple colors at once than watch them drain without printing.

D-EJ915 12-25-2019 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skupples (Post 28251786)
^ brother color laserjet. They won't be cheap, but it'll be the last printer you ever buy.

only suicide chip is in the drums, and you can reset those from ui.

Issue with brother is their software is even worse than HP and their support is worse too if you can even believe that. Lots of mom & pop shops my company supports buy them but why stuff never works right with the scan to email or what not and their support never has an answer lol.

If you have a business just rent a real copier imo, it's worth saving the headache and ticket costs from your on call it dept every month lol.

skupples 12-25-2019 06:41 PM

i've been lucky enough to never have to reach out to their support in 6 years of ordering their big boy laser colors for c level folks. though we did recently switch to HP's laser color due to the 9xxx series we were ordering going EOL soon or something.

Hwgeek 12-26-2019 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnb99 (Post 28251484)
That’s the gimmick with those printers. Enough ink for a lifetime but better use it in a month or it’ll clog up from lack of use.
Enough Ink for a year but it expires in a month.

Printer ink is such a rip off

Cloging issue is there yes if you aren't using it at least once in two weeks- you need to do head cleaning, it also depends on the Humidity in your place.
Regarding the expiretion time- not true, I bought the Epson in 2018 and the exp date on the ink is 2021.

The-Real-Link 12-26-2019 02:44 AM

Had an HP Officejet that lasted over 10 years until finally some ink hose kinks and dried up ink finally made it to where it wouldn't accept new cartridges / print. Ended up just investing in a color laser since most everything else I have is Canon anyway. But yeah wouldn't touch another HP product after just spending so much on ink.


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