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-   -   Completely black WMO: Real or fake? (https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1704368-completely-black-wmo-real-fake.html)

WMOman 07-25-2018 08:54 AM

Completely black WMO: Real or fake?
 
I have 1 WMO that I bought many years ago, from a local shop, it's the 1.1a, it had no original box. This one broke.

Then I have 3 WMO that are fully black, which I bought from ebay a couple years ago from dacheng I think. They seem legit. But they are all black.
They don't have the the grey sides as my 1.1a have (these ones aren't 1.1a, they are 1.1 but they don't say it, I guess they are the ones that came with the original box but he sells them in bulk).

This is how my 1.1a looks like:

http://www.esreality.com/files/image...49959-wmo1.jpg
http://www.esreality.com/files/image...49961-wmo2.jpg

As you see, the base/sides is grey. Notice how the wheel and cable is grey too. This is the most common WMO color set I see when I search for WMO in google images.

Now this is the weird thing. The 3 ones I bought from the chinese ebay seller are completely black. Black sides, black wheel, black cable. It looks kinda cool all slick black. Im just worried it's a chinese knockoff of sorts.

I wasn't able to find a picture of one that is completely black besides this one with the weird logo:

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlin...69101-WMO.jpeg

Mine doesn't have that logo, just the regular Microsoft logo, which has almost completely vanished by now, as it typically happens with the WMO, which makes it look even better tbh.

I was just wondering why the change in colors?

The boxed one seems to be grey wheel and cable and I assume base too:

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~joyoun...ures/mouse.jpg

Oddly enough on this picture it looks like the wheel is black while sides are grey:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/99gAA...05/s-l1600.jpg

And i've found this box that says "special edition". What's special about it?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/N4kAA...fU/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qJIAA...fW/s-l1600.jpg

Another oddity i forgot to mention: The wheel strenght varies between mouses. Some it's smoother and easier to rotate, others is a bit more stiff.

Also when looking at this guide, it all seems to be fine:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...ould-tell.html

Except I noticed in the bottom, there is a logo missing, the one that says "NOM" or something and the one besides that one:

https://i.imgur.com/As3XioE.png

These are also apparently also seen on the fake one. On mine, there is nothing there. I don't know what these logos even mean.



Let's see if someone can put some sanity on this. Im just paranoid mine are fakes. I have been using one at 500hz for a couple years and it works fine, but one I had to ditch because when playing Quake Live sometimes it sort of derped around a bit (I play with very sharp movements with the use of accel, like old school russian players) so I plugged in another one and this one has been pretty sharp since then, having noticed anything when during games. Im just still a bit paranoid in the back of my head that the guy sold me knockoffs. I have heard the only way to know is to open it but I don't want to screw it up. Last time I opened a mouse I broke it, buttons weren't clicking correctly. I bought 3 at the same time because I was fearing they would disappear from the market and I wanted a lifetime supply.. but apparently they are still being sold pretty often in new condition. Mine are were supposedly sold as new.

badben25 07-26-2018 01:22 AM

Knockoffs, or 'replicas' rather, especially considering they're all fully black, or like the ones with white cables in some other thread here. You cannot get authentic new MLT04 mice for quite a while since they haven't been produced for a while. The ones that you can buy for the past few years are all Chinese built where the body and cable seem to be the same, and sensor feels quite like an MLT04. It's a mix between the sensors/PCBs from old mice being put into new shells (kinda like refurbs), or new MLT04 sensors/PCBs being manufactured into new shells (replicas). I don't know the technical properties of these re-manufactured sensors and if they're similar to the genuine ones, I don't know how they're re-making them or if they're actually something else that just seems similar, but they behave similarly and feel close enough for most users.

Even though the genuine ones are known for their build quality and last a long time, they were still not really refined and there was some inconsistency. But being an Intellimouse enthusiast myself, I can tell that these replicas don't really have the same clicks and scrolls, and also the way the shell's edges fit together is not as good, and the overall build quality from unit to unit is less consistent. The scrolls on the original ones were known to wear out quickly leading to the 'auto-jump' issue for CS players, and this doesn't really happen on the replicas but I doubt this was done consciously.

The only way to actually get a genuine one these days is most likely an old used one, or the rare occasion where maybe someone kept an original in box for a while. Even though the WMO, IMO1.1 and IME3.0 will always be special, and the shapes are a huge draw even today, I don't think they're worthwhile anymore. They have been surpassed in pretty much every respect and can be a bit of a hassle to deal with them sometimes compared to newer options. This is coming from someone who has spent a lot of time and money on these MS mice and had his best/most successful years in gaming with them.

Although I do not suggest people to opt for these mice anymore, if you personally like the feel and play fine, then I guess you shouldn't bother with the anxiety of having a fake. You should either move on to newer mice and enjoy gaming, or stick to the WMO and enjoy gaming; in either case, focus on enjoying playing well instead of mouse specifics :)

WMOman 07-26-2018 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badben25 (Post 27550388)
Knockoffs, or 'replicas' rather, especially considering they're all fully black, or like the ones with white cables in some other thread here. You cannot get authentic new MLT04 mice for quite a while since they haven't been produced for a while. The ones that you can buy for the past few years are all Chinese built where the body and cable seem to be the same, and sensor feels quite like an MLT04. It's a mix between the sensors/PCBs from old mice being put into new shells (kinda like refurbs), or new MLT04 sensors/PCBs being manufactured into new shells (replicas). I don't know the technical properties of these re-manufactured sensors and if they're similar to the genuine ones, I don't know how they're re-making them or if they're actually something else that just seems similar, but they behave similarly and feel close enough for most users.

Even though the genuine ones are known for their build quality and last a long time, they were still not really refined and there was some inconsistency. But being an Intellimouse enthusiast myself, I can tell that these replicas don't really have the same clicks and scrolls, and also the way the shell's edges fit together is not as good, and the overall build quality from unit to unit is less consistent. The scrolls on the original ones were known to wear out quickly leading to the 'auto-jump' issue for CS players, and this doesn't really happen on the replicas but I doubt this was done consciously.

The only way to actually get a genuine one these days is most likely an old used one, or the rare occasion where maybe someone kept an original in box for a while. Even though the WMO, IMO1.1 and IME3.0 will always be special, and the shapes are a huge draw even today, I don't think they're worthwhile anymore. They have been surpassed in pretty much every respect and can be a bit of a hassle to deal with them sometimes compared to newer options. This is coming from someone who has spent a lot of time and money on these MS mice and had his best/most successful years in gaming with them.

Although I do not suggest people to opt for these mice anymore, if you personally like the feel and play fine, then I guess you shouldn't bother with the anxiety of having a fake. You should either move on to newer mice and enjoy gaming, or stick to the WMO and enjoy gaming; in either case, focus on enjoying playing well instead of mouse specifics :)

I may look for a sealed one or something, but they are rare. I hate that it doesn't say "1.1a" at the bottom in box version ones tho :)
In any case, what's the point of moving into another mouse? none of them have the same WMO shape, with no side buttons, and not too small and not too big, perfect dimensions.

Also i've heard that the MLT04 is "more raw" than modern sensors and hence better. Not sure what they mean by this tho.

badben25 07-26-2018 07:47 AM

I chuckle whenever someone describes a sensor as 'raw'..

But I understand what you mean. The way the sensor feels and behaves is due to certain attributes, but it has been equaled/surpassed by the 3360 and its variants. Give the 3360 a try if you haven't yet, though the shape still does not have a true alternative. It also doesn't help that the 3360 is considered a premium sensor meaning brands will always put it in a mouse that has side buttons and other extras, so if you are looking for a simple mouse without side buttons but with a 3360 then you're out of luck and shouldn't be expecting it to change any time soon. If you can play with the Kinzu shape then this is an option: https://dreammachines.io/en/dm3mini
Though last I heard it had some build quality issues, you'd have to look around on the forums for updates.
There's a decent chance the Ninox Astrum will be what you're looking for, but we won't know until it is released and the community here has put it through trial.

The shape of the WMO is great especially if you play games like Quake, but if you want a mouse for more than just Quake then there's a number of reasons why you should actually consider mice that have side buttons where the shape works for you. The DM1 Pro S and Nixeus Revel are good options; the Revel is closer to the WMO in terms of dimensions. What I say comes from tons of trial and error, I was in a not too different place as you are and I didn't really want to compromise, but here I am today satisfied with a DM1 Pro S. It's not a WMO, it's different, but it's everything I look for in a package that suits me.

WMOman 07-26-2018 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badben25 (Post 27550758)
I chuckle whenever someone describes a sensor as 'raw'..

But I understand what you mean. The way the sensor feels and behaves is due to certain attributes, but it has been equaled/surpassed by the 3360 and its variants. Give the 3360 a try if you haven't yet, though the shape still does not have a true alternative. It also doesn't help that the 3360 is considered a premium sensor meaning brands will always put it in a mouse that has side buttons and other extras, so if you are looking for a simple mouse without side buttons but with a 3360 then you're out of luck and shouldn't be expecting it to change any time soon. If you can play with the Kinzu shape then this is an option: https://dreammachines.io/en/dm3mini
Though last I heard it had some build quality issues, you'd have to look around on the forums for updates.
There's a decent chance the Ninox Astrum will be what you're looking for, but we won't know until it is released and the community here has put it through trial.

The shape of the WMO is great especially if you play games like Quake, but if you want a mouse for more than just Quake then there's a number of reasons why you should actually consider mice that have side buttons where the shape works for you. The DM1 Pro S and Nixeus Revel are good options; the Revel is closer to the WMO in terms of dimensions. What I say comes from tons of trial and error, I was in a not too different place as you are and I didn't really want to compromise, but here I am today satisfied with a DM1 Pro S. It's not a WMO, it's different, but it's everything I look for in a package that suits me.


Well, Quake is the only game i can be bothered to play these days when I find some free time, so yes, I need the WMO shape, and I can't deal with sidebuttons. I have the intellimouse 3.0 and I hate accidentally clicking on side buttons. I just don't want that distraction there. I use a claw-like hold with fingers and the WMO is the best for this.

Does anyone sell WMO mods with the 3360? seems like the ideal way to go then if the sensor is so much better.

Maybe I would consider doing it myself since i have 4 spare WMO cases.. but I really must have a video tutorial explaining everything otherwise im not risking breaking it.

The Ninox one will most likely be another ****up with an annoying shape.

Elrick 07-26-2018 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badben25 (Post 27550758)
I chuckle whenever someone describes a sensor as 'raw'..

But I understand what you mean. The way the sensor feels and behaves is due to certain attributes, but it has been equaled/surpassed by the 3360 and its variants. Give the 3360 a try if you haven't yet, though the shape still does not have a true alternative.


A fact not lost by any of us who are still FORCED to use an ancient model that has no equal in shape.


This shape alone precludes any further discussion into other failed designs, yet to compete successfully with the original WMO :cigar: .

the1freeMan 07-29-2018 02:27 AM

If you already have the mouse just plug it in. Windows recognizes Microsoft mice and it will appear by it's name (microsoft wheel mouse optical) in the device manager, non MS mice just appear as "HID-compliant mouse".

WMOman 07-29-2018 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the1freeMan (Post 27554068)
If you already have the mouse just plug it in. Windows recognizes Microsoft mice and it will appear by it's name (microsoft wheel mouse optical) in the device manager, non MS mice just appear as "HID-compliant mouse".

It shows up as "Microsoft Hardware USB Mouse" ... not Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical.. is it fake then? ****

the1freeMan 08-11-2018 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMOman (Post 27554938)
It shows up as "Microsoft Hardware USB Mouse" ... not Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical.. is it fake then? ****

Haven't seen that before. Just double checked, on both windows 7 and 10 it's "Microsoft USB Wheel Mouse Optical".

Gordon59 05-08-2019 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMOman (Post 27549498)
I have 1 WMO that I bought many years ago, from a local shop, it's the 1.1a, it had no original box. This one broke.

Then I have 3 WMO that are fully black, which I bought from ebay a couple years ago from dacheng I think. They seem legit. But they are all black.
They don't have the the grey sides as my 1.1a have (these ones aren't 1.1a, they are 1.1 but they don't say it, I guess they are the ones that came with the original box but he sells them in bulk).

I've some news for you !

I just bought today a used WMO mouse and it's also full black cable, shell and scroll wheel ! My guess it's the last Microsoft made, as some numbers on the bottom are higher the first I had is 0705 this black is 0839.

Here's some pics from them, the grey one doesn't have cable because i'm using it for this project :
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...a-married.html


https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers...-blackwmo1.jpg

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers...-blackwmo2.jpg

Question still... Is there an hardware difference between them ? I may open the black one once I finish my project first.


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