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-   -   Nvidia Will Support Adaptive Sync (Freesync)! (https://www.overclock.net/forum/44-monitors-displays/1717610-nvidia-will-support-adaptive-sync-freesync.html)

gypsygib 01-06-2019 09:23 PM

Nvidia Will Support Adaptive Sync (Freesync)!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just watching the CES 2019 stream, seems like official free-sync support is coming for some existing monitors, and likely more future monitors.

Today was a good day.

Leopardi 01-06-2019 09:52 PM

This should also give manufacturers some motivation to properly implement that freesync as well. Win-win.

ChiTownButcher 01-06-2019 10:25 PM

I will believe it when I see it but if it's real it's about time. This stupid VHS/BETA with monitors is stupid.

MistaSparkul 01-06-2019 11:19 PM

Over 400 monitors tested but only 12 passed dang. Well regardless it's a step in the right direction for sure, we've all been asking for this for years.

elgreco14 01-06-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistaSparkul (Post 27792190)
Over 400 monitors tested but only 12 passed dang. Well regardless it's a step in the right direction for sure, we've all been asking for this for years.

There will be an option to turn it on every monitor.

CallsignVega 01-07-2019 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgreco14 (Post 27792216)
There will be an option to turn it on every monitor.

Ya that is the key sentence from Jensen. You will be able to flip the switch in the drivers for any VRR monitor. HUGE news. I'd imagine NVIDIA support for HDMI 2.1 VRR on their next GPU is virtually guaranteed.

ToTheSun! 01-07-2019 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistaSparkul (Post 27792190)
Over 400 monitors tested but only 12 passed dang. Well regardless it's a step in the right direction for sure, we've all been asking for this for years.

Probably only those 12 were good enough for nVidia to support without further individual tuning. I suppose it dovetails with the notion that most Freesync monitors were never properly designed for VRR in the first place.

In any case, it's more than a step in the right direction; it's a step toward LG and JOLED VRR with nVidia cards. I can't see BFGD's getting a lot of traction if they're competing directly with superior panels found in TV's.

FastEddieNYC 01-07-2019 12:46 AM

This is very welcome news and also a smart business move. The price difference for G-Sync for the average gamer was steep so buying an AMD card and cheaper freesync monitor made sense for many. With this announcement Nvidia can entice those gamers.

Pirx 01-07-2019 06:00 AM

this will be a day long remembered. it has seen the end of being tied to a manufacturer, and will soon see the end of the g-sync chip.

or the expensive chip will be kept for a range of high-end monitors so customers have a larger guaranteed sync range (or whatever they can use to make a premium option out of it)

before g-sync, buying a monitor was rather simple. maybe g-sync is the better solution from a technical standpoint (i don't know), but this artificial split into g-sync vs freesync monitors has bothered me since its inception. i never noticed the tearing g-sync was supposed to eliminate, and stuck with g-sync because of the blur reduction (ulmb) tied to it. which is no longer necessary now as many monitors come with their built-in blur reduction tech (dyac, elmb, whatever it's called). but they still cost significantly more than their freesync counterparts due to the g-sync chip.

now, nvidia isn't giving up its g-sync ecosystem for nothing. perhaps they will lose it anyway when intel supports freesync with their integrated graphics. or they think that customers will have even less reasons to buy an amd card if their cards work with cheaper monitors. so, they give up sales of g-sync chips for more card sales. recent share price losses might be a reason for them to act before it gets worse.

Leopardi 01-07-2019 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheSun! (Post 27792264)
Probably only those 12 were good enough for nVidia to support without further individual tuning. I suppose it dovetails with the notion that most Freesync monitors were never properly designed for VRR in the first place.

In any case, it's more than a step in the right direction; it's a step toward LG and JOLED VRR with nVidia cards. I can't see BFGD's getting a lot of traction if they're competing directly with superior panels found in TV's.

Freesync monitors are also refresh rate locked for AMD cards, so that must be a reason also why so many fail. 75Hz freesync monitors work at 60Hz for nvidia, 144Hz freesync monitors work at 100Hz for nvidia etc.

The Pook 01-07-2019 08:41 AM

inb4 only for RTX cards?

didn't watch the stream, so if they said it works on GTX then nevermind me :)

Leopardi 01-07-2019 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pook (Post 27792896)
inb4 only for RTX cards?

didn't watch the stream, so if they said it works on GTX then nevermind me :)

GTX10 and RTX cards

Dejam87 01-07-2019 09:25 AM

pretty nice I must say . BUT will it work for the korean monitors that have the same panel ? ( e.g asus mg278q and crossover 144 fast )

TK421 01-07-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopardi (Post 27792856)
Freesync monitors are also refresh rate locked for AMD cards, so that must be a reason also why so many fail. 75Hz freesync monitors work at 60Hz for nvidia, 144Hz freesync monitors work at 100Hz for nvidia etc.




are you 100% sure about this?


because I'm going to get a new monitor and it has freesync and not g-sync, if the refresh rate is less with nvidia then I wouldn't be buying it

ToTheSun! 01-07-2019 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopardi (Post 27792856)
Freesync monitors are also refresh rate locked for AMD cards, so that must be a reason also why so many fail. 75Hz freesync monitors work at 60Hz for nvidia, 144Hz freesync monitors work at 100Hz for nvidia etc.

Almost makes Jensen look like the saint here.

Leopardi 01-07-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK421 (Post 27793054)
are you 100% sure about this?


because I'm going to get a new monitor and it has freesync and not g-sync, if the refresh rate is less with nvidia then I wouldn't be buying it

Yes. Almost always 75Hz units will skip frames on nvidia, unless you back down to 60Hz.

Sweclockers review on the BenQ EX3203R confirms that 100Hz is the maximum that nvidia cards support without skipping frames, while AMD does 144hz smoothly. So be sure to do frameskipping tests before deciding to keep any freesync monitor.

HiCZoK 01-07-2019 12:33 PM

Very nice. Just ordered 4k60 ips from lg with freesync. only 48-60 but still welcome

Tal Shiar 01-07-2019 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirx (Post 27792618)
i never noticed the tearing g-sync was supposed to eliminate, and stuck with g-sync because of the blur reduction (ulmb) tied to it. which is no longer necessary now as many monitors come with their built-in blur reduction tech (dyac, elmb, whatever it's called).


If you have never noticed tearing that means you play with Vsync turned on as it is pretty much impossible to miss during fast paced movement. Gsync eliminates tearing for people who experience the issue when playing with Vsync turned OFF or it eliminates stutter (massive sudden drop in frame rate) for people who experience the issue when playing with Vsync turned ON. Therefore Gysnc provides two major benefits but people will only experience one of those benefits depending on what type of player they are.

Tal Shiar 01-07-2019 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopardi (Post 27793088)
Yes. Almost always 75Hz units will skip frames on nvidia, unless you back down to 60Hz.

Sweclockers review on the BenQ EX3203R confirms that 100Hz is the maximum that nvidia cards support without skipping frames, while AMD does 144hz smoothly. So be sure to do frameskipping tests before deciding to keep any freesync monitor.


There are exceptions. I am pretty sure Acer's 38" freesync ultrawide does not frame skip @75Hz with an Nvidia card, several owners have confirmed that. However LG's version of the same 38" panel does frame skip.

I think the main reason many monitors are failing is because Nvidia will require the max refresh to be at least 2.5x of min refresh. That will eliminate hundreds of 48-60 range monitors without any need for real testing. What I am mostly curious about is what will happen when we force VRR from the Nvidia Control Panel on displays with 48-60Hz range ? I guess we'll find out in a few weeks time...

JackCY 01-07-2019 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheSun! (Post 27792264)
Probably only those 12 were good enough for nVidia to support without further individual tuning. I suppose it dovetails with the notion that most Freesync monitors were never properly designed for VRR in the first place.

In any case, it's more than a step in the right direction; it's a step toward LG and JOLED VRR with nVidia cards. I can't see BFGD's getting a lot of traction if they're competing directly with superior panels found in TV's.

Monitor makers buy the modules from other companies, Realtek etc. who actually make the input and processing boards etc. Company such as say Acer/AOC/... buys panels from AUO/LG/Samsung/... the boards either bundled with the panel or from Realtek/... maybe they make the plastic mold and stand or have someone else make it and assembly it all while slapping Acer/AOC/... logo on it.

BFGDs are stuck with AUO making the panels and Nvidia actually making a Gsync module capable to drive that resolution and refresh rate which so far they still can't, they can do 2160p 98Hz or so, that's it :/ Where as these BFGDs are supposed to be 2160p144? And that also means full HDMI2.1 or DP1.4 support, neither of which is on Nvidia products yet is it.

Overall I think BFGDs are DOA if they ever arrive at all.

Drivers and firmware are the main culprit for most VRR issues on any kind of adaptive sync. The hardware design should be fine.
The question remains how keen will Nvidia get to try and make fine adjustments to make all adaptive sync monitors work well if there is any adjustment needed. Technically and theoretically there should not be and everything should "just work" but as we all know the reality and practice is often different when things tend to be backwards compatible and forced to make trade offs even on new technology.

They will rather lose the tiny bit of control over monitors to gain GPU sales and now people will be more willing to buy Nvidia GPUs when adaptive sync support on them won't hopefully be locked anymore. Amount of Gsync monitors on market is small and limited anyway and people are complaining about that for years too. Now everyone should be able to choose any VRR monitor but if it will "just work" with GeForce still remains to be experienced.


Only some monitors have adaptive sync defined as 75Hz or 144Hz while their non adaptive sync table is defined as 60Hz or 100Hz. There are monitors on market right now that do work with ANY GPU at the max refresh rate. And even if you have to OC it will not skip frames if the adaptive sync mode can go that high as you're trying to OC and it lets you OC and won't black screen you with out of range message. Frame skipping occurs when the processor can't handle so much data but since it's made to run that fast in adaptive sync mode it should have no probably to run the same with adaptive sync disabled, unless of course it automatically downclocks itself to save power or other efficiency shenanigans that lower it's bandwidth capabilities.

144Hz Freesync certified works 144Hz on Nvidia GPU with no adaptive sync.
75Hz Freesync certified (well 76Hz if you look at the table in a tool that can see it) works 75Hz on Nvidia GPU with no adaptive sync.
Depends on the monitor, it's EDID etc. You would probably have to buy something old that runs higher rate in adaptive sync mode and lacks the EDID definition for as high refresh rate in non adaptive sync mode.

TK421 01-08-2019 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopardi (Post 27793088)
Yes. Almost always 75Hz units will skip frames on nvidia, unless you back down to 60Hz.

Sweclockers review on the BenQ EX3203R confirms that 100Hz is the maximum that nvidia cards support without skipping frames, while AMD does 144hz smoothly. So be sure to do frameskipping tests before deciding to keep any freesync monitor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tal Shiar (Post 27793486)
There are exceptions. I am pretty sure Acer's 38" freesync ultrawide does not frame skip @75Hz with an Nvidia card, several owners have confirmed that. However LG's version of the same 38" panel does frame skip.

I think the main reason many monitors are failing is because Nvidia will require the max refresh to be at least 2.5x of min refresh. That will eliminate hundreds of 48-60 range monitors without any need for real testing. What I am mostly curious about is what will happen when we force VRR from the Nvidia Control Panel on displays with 48-60Hz range ? I guess we'll find out in a few weeks time...




How about the 144hz freesync ones, do they have to run at 120 or lower to not have issues with nvidia card?

Leopardi 01-08-2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK421 (Post 27794812)
How about the 144hz freesync ones, do they have to run at 120 or lower to not have issues with nvidia card?

Depends, I dont think the 32GK850F has issues, while the EX3203R doesn't run above 100Hz on nvidia. Even though they're both based on the same panel.

21Dante 01-08-2019 02:58 PM

Most monitors that have freesync will run at their full hz with no problem.
I had a 75hz LG freesync monitor.
Worked like a charm with my 1070 with no frameskipping.
Same with my S2719DGF.Works at 155hz with no frame skipping.

Kaltenbrunner 01-08-2019 03:30 PM

So as someone that's considering spending +750 for an IPS w/gsync in 2-3 months, what does this mean?

Can I save the money and get a freesync IPS now and it will work later ?? Like with a driver update or something? I'll have an rtx 2070 next week

Kaltenbrunner 01-08-2019 03:33 PM

Hey will this is great news, so Jan 15th some nice top free-sync monitors will get driver support

I'll guess we'll find out soon.

AstroCat 01-09-2019 07:58 AM

I'd be very curious if someone does an independent Gsync round up comparison test of a bunch of monitors so we can see really which ones will work with Gsync and how well. For me personally it's the 31.5" 1440 ones that I'm most interested in since I just got the LG 32GK850G.

Dejam87 01-09-2019 12:02 PM

RIP LG 34UC79G ! it's on the blinking side ....

https://i.imgur.com/MpVxEgV.jpg

u can see it's the same monitor from the stand.

JackCY 01-14-2019 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leopardi (Post 27794852)
Depends, I dont think the 32GK850F has issues, while the EX3203R doesn't run above 100Hz on nvidia. Even though they're both based on the same panel.

The panels don't care, you could drive them 10kHz if you wanted to. It's the electronics that differs between monitor makers. One board is often from panel maker (though someone else likely manufactures it) and that one is specific to the panel, it drives the panel, TCON (timing controller), this board is fed by yet another board, the board to which you plug DP, HDMI, ... cables, it does all the image decoding, processing, OSD overlay, ... it can do overdrive but I think TCOn can do overdrive as well.

Meaning, it's BenQ's fault or Nvidia's fault if the same monitor works in the same mode on GPUs not from Nvidia.

I will check the status on Q3279VWFD8 once the driver is available and isn't a pile of mess.
Nvidia will definitely have work to do to make it work on some monitors/brands. Standardized stuff probably not being implemented precisely to the standard. Hence why Nvidia felt like they need to control the monitors as well by offering Gsync board, not that it helped anyway...

JackCY 01-15-2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dejam87 (Post 27797356)
RIP LG 34UC79G ! it's on the blinking side ....

https://i.imgur.com/MpVxEgV.jpg

u can see it's the same monitor from the stand.

It has been reported that turning this LG monitor off and on fixes the issue and this seems to be an issue with their driver right now as it needs to be done on ALL monitors and is even in the reddit "guide" on how to enable adaptive sync. Enable adaptive sync, then turn monitor off and on.
My Q3279VWFD8 needed a bit more than one off/on but the GPU and driver finally stopped their mess and synced up correctly.

gerardfraser 01-16-2019 01:49 PM

It is just awesome.

4K Adaptive Sync /FreeSync Monitor running G-sync on Nvidia card.
Windmill Demo/Pendulum Demo test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=RkxLnMk5fs0

thedosbox 01-20-2019 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstroCat (Post 27796514)
I'd be very curious if someone does an independent Gsync round up comparison test of a bunch of monitors so we can see really which ones will work with Gsync and how well.

This is the only list I've seen (and they only tested with the pendulum demo):

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests...ync-compatible

They do include some regular g-sync and non-VRR monitors in the list, but you can filter those out.

HiCZoK 01-21-2019 03:33 AM

Anyone tested new ASUS VG279Q ?

writer21 01-21-2019 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiCZoK (Post 27817326)
Anyone tested new ASUS VG279Q ?

Yep and I will probably return it unless they can fix the drivers. All things considered the monitor is very good. Picture quality is very good after calibration, colors are vibrant, contrast is better than my XB271HU Gsync monitor.

1080 @ 27 inches is noticeable but a lot smoother for fast paced shooting games.

Now as far as gsync compatible. Yes it works but I've been experiencing lock ups or my whole system seems to freeze. Doesn't happen on my Acer Gsync monitor. So for now I've stopped using the monitor until hotfix drivers are released. The panel handles motion blur as well the Acer but the Acer is 1440p which just looks better and helps with spotting enemies even with lower fps.

I was also looking forward to the ELMB mode (ULMB equivalent) with the IPS colors. The panel looks good with ELMB mode as far as colors, brightness and contrast. But there is way too much ghosting. Compared to Nvidia's ULMB it is horrible.

So like I said before I'm leaning on returning the monitor for something that can handle Low motion blur mode better. But if you don't need that mode the panel looks pretty good and gsync compatible drivers was smooth when it works. I also see scan lines sometimes. Not during gaming but mostly on the desktop.

Hope this helps.

JackCY 01-21-2019 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerardfraser (Post 27809862)
It is just awesome.

4K Adaptive Sync /FreeSync Monitor running G-sync on Nvidia card.
Windmill Demo/Pendulum Demo test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=RkxLnMk5fs0

Is this screen capture? LOL
Even from that to me it looks as if you're running Vsync with stutter. So much stutter.

If you want to make a video, grab a video camera at best high speed one and record the monitor itself.

ORL 01-21-2019 01:36 PM

This was an inevitable direction change. The reason this became reality is due to the fact the "sync" technology will continue to evolve. Outdating older models of monitors which had hardware solutions implemented. Essentially taking this tech in a direction where you would ultimately have to pair monitors to GPUs and as such upgrade Monitors every so many GPU upgrades. This paired with a substantial premium markup, and a competitor who had achieved a universal alternative reducing costs across the board by not requiring matching hardware pairs.... need I say more? nVidia got greedy with the tech, AMD made a much better development at far less cost by stopping the potential of the latter, not substantially better in performance, but in future scalability.

The notion of integrated G-Sync chips will die off now as time travels on. Proprietary hardware restrictions will get crushed by the open source forking of AMDs freesync in the long run. This is a big win for the consumer, nVidia will try and play the hero catering to the masses with this. The truth is, it is AMD who is the sidelined hero here, had they followed suit with hardware solutions, we wouldn't be here today.

The only props I have towards nVidia on this is that they finally did it, if only by being forced to in the evolution of competition.

I am very happy though for all of you nVidia users though! This opens up your options massively and is FANTASTIC news!

ToTheSun! 01-21-2019 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORL (Post 27818260)
This opens up your options massively and is FANTASTIC news!

So much so that nVidia owners now have access (albeit limited in some cases) to VRR universally, while AMD owners are limited to Freesync monitors. It's kind of funny how that turned out. If I didn't know Jensen well, I'd chalk it up to a happy coincidence.

JackCY 01-22-2019 09:46 AM

I think Nvidia gave the DP VRR now also as a PR show to appease people a bit after their recent endless hate due to performance, power consumption and pricing of Turing. They have to offer VRR with HDMI2.1, I think it's mandatory unlike optional VRR in DP1.2. So they get better "press" by offering DP1.2 VRR now rather than having it only for next cards in 2020 with HDMI2.1. Turing as far as I know is NOT HDMI2.1, only 2.0b. Nvidia needed something to lower the hate toward them that is building up. Obviously anti monopoly is not working in US at all, governments don't know how to deal with monopolies and oligopolies in a digital age, well to be honest they outright support it by allowing corporations to buy any possible competitor before it even becomes a threat on market.
It will take some time before China starts spitting out their own CPU and GPU designs.

Well from the recent input lag measurements of AMD vs Nvidia and the DP VRR, AMD has lower latency even when no sync is used. Not all is greener on Nvidia's lawn.


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