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MilanceX 03-12-2019 03:38 PM

About i5-6600k and CPU usage
 
Hey guys,
Recently I got very nice deal for Asus Z170-A combined with i5-6600k and 1x8GB Crucial 2133MHz RAM

RAM isn't something special and it's single stick so no dual channel, will replace that ASAP.

When I'm playing games, CPU tends to hit 100% usage, and in some cases lowers to 50%, but in others, lowers from 100% to 85%...
Before that I had AMD FX8300, and I usually never checked how much usage on CPU I have but it was much lower, due to extra cores/threads.
Now, everyone keeps telling me how i5-6600k is much better option than FX8300, and I agree but that high CPU usage is really annoying.
How I think about it : IF my cpu is working at 30%, that means that I have ANOTHER 70% at my disposal, so I can run one more game and CPU will be 60%, then I have ANOTHER 40% left for all background stuff... BUT if my i5, combined with GTX950 2GB is working in Warframe at 80%, if I get GTX1080 it WILL bottleneck (cpu bottleneck).

Then I did some tests.. I OC'ed from 3.5GHz(default) ; 3.9GHz Boost, to 4.4GHz on all cores WITHOUT increasing voltage. Then I pushed some more, with +0.1v offset on XTU I'm able to reach fully stable 4.8GHz with intense gaming temp up to 65c, and prime 26.6 up to 70c WITH ambient temperature of 21-22c.

Basically all that overclocking got me many more frames in games like CSGO, but for warframe, usage stayed the same (cpu usage)

Then I thought "well if warframe is using 80% of CPU that mean that I have only 20% cpu power left, right?" so I ran prime95 26.6 WHILE playing Warframe.. not a SINGLE FPS drop.. and task manager showed me that ~47% is used by Warframe, and ~46% by prime95..

So if Warframe is able to run perfectly normal under ~47% cpu load, then why is it using ~80% load?

Some said that this is perfectly normal, that's just CPU doing it's work, some said that i7 1st gen with hyperthreading disabled uses about 30% in Waframe (without hyperthreading it's 4c/4t), some said that hitting 100% is CPU bottleneck... Which one is true?

How I see it now, IF my Warframe is running at 80% load, if I get 1060 it will be capped at 100%?
Apex Legends runs at 60-80% with regular 100% usage hits (loading map, heavy explosions, etc...)

Thank you in advance

gammagoat 03-12-2019 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanceX (Post 27889082)
Hey guys,
IF my cpu is working at 30%, that means that I have ANOTHER 70% at my disposal, so I can run one more game and CPU will be 60%, then I have ANOTHER 40% left for all background stuff... BUT if my i5, combined with GTX950 2GB is working in Warframe at 80%, if I get GTX1080 it WILL bottleneck (cpu bottleneck).



Thank you in advance

Resolution matters, if you go with 1080 I suspect that the card will take more of the load. Especially if you bump the resolution up.

Some games are of course more cpu dependant, I'm not familiar with the games you have mentioned.

BroadPwns 03-12-2019 04:55 PM

Just because you have tons of percentages left at your disposal does not mean you don't bottleneck the GPU with your CPU. FX-8300 is craptone worse than 6600k, mind that. If you don't have 97-99% of GPU usage then it means you either bottleneck (false in this case) or you have energy savings features enabled on your GPU. Try switching Power Management to Prefer maximum performance mode in Nvidia Control Panel.

MilanceX 03-12-2019 05:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by gammagoat (Post 27889146)
Resolution matters, if you go with 1080 I suspect that the card will take more of the load. Especially if you bump the resolution up.

Some games are of course more cpu dependant, I'm not familiar with the games you have mentioned.

It's 1080p, it's somewhat CPU intensive i belive

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadPwns (Post 27889158)
Just because you have tons of percentages left at your disposal does not mean you don't bottleneck the GPU with your CPU. FX-8300 is craptone worse than 6600k, mind that. If you don't have 97-99% of GPU usage then it means you either bottleneck (false in this case) or you have energy savings features enabled on your GPU. Try switching Power Management to Prefer maximum performance mode in Nvidia Control Panel.

Yeah, my GTX is at 99% (friend said that nvidia will never reach 100%) at some occasions when there is less effects in game it drops down to 70% GPU load.. BUT, often when heavy load ingame, my FPS drops from 60 to 50, and both CPU and GPU are NOT maxed.. i belive that's because of weak GPU and having one one stick or RAM memory (single channel). Will dual channel maybe reduce CPU load? Also I noticed that when I play for example Apex, CPU load is very high, but temperature is ~60c @4.8GHz, but if I run Prime it will be 70c.. I guess 100% doesn't always mean 100% actual usage... Also Task Manager is messing with me, it shows 90-100% usage, but both HWInfo64 and XTU shows 10-20% less actual usage.. here is default clock with boost @3.9GHz , playing for about 1h30min.. HWInfo

EDIT : My power plan is set to high performance

wingman99 03-12-2019 05:55 PM

The CPU will run prime95 with the game without much performance loss because the game mostly uses integer calculations and Prime95 uses mostly floating point calculations. They are separate parts of the processor.

I would not use processor utilization to gauge gaming performance it is not accurate. Utilization is calculated time from windows on how long the gaming instructions take to process. So it takes in account of the memory time then delay from video card time also bus time. So when you see 80% for gaming that includes processor, Video card time, memory time, bus transfers time. So the processor by it self is only around 40% busy and can do plenty more work at the same time. Most folks notice while gaming there is not much processor heat compared to other programs because it's doing less work.

So another way to say what 80% gaming utilization is. The processor is idle a lot of the time waiting for the video card and memory instructions to be received and sent. Most background programs mostly need the processor and intermittently run quick 2-5% of the time.

The best way to see if the processor is holding you back in gaming is to overclock and see if the FPS increase or underclock and see if the FPS decrease.

BroadPwns 03-12-2019 06:16 PM

You will notice fps fluctuation after overclocking/underclocking regardless of whether the CPU is bottlenecking or not.

MilanceX 03-12-2019 07:05 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wingman99 (Post 27889228)
The CPU will run prime95 with the game without much performance loss because the game mostly uses integer calculations and Prime95 uses mostly floating point calculations. They are separate parts of the processor.

I would not use processor utilization to gauge gaming performance it is not accurate. Utilization is calculated time from windows on how long the gaming instructions take to process. So it takes in account of the memory time then delay from video card time also bus time. So when you see 80% for gaming that includes processor, Video card time, memory time, bus transfers time. So the processor by it self is only around 40% busy and can do plenty more work at the same time. Most folks notice while gaming there is not much processor heat compared to other programs because it's doing less work.

So another way to say what 80% gaming utilization is. The processor is idle a lot of the time waiting for the video card and memory instructions to be received and sent. Most background programs mostly need the processor and intermittently run quick 2-5% of the time.

The best way to see if the processor is holding you back in gaming is to overclock and see if the FPS increase or underclock and see if the FPS decrease.

Okay, this makes sense. Thank you.
I actually said that when I'm gaming, CPU temps are LOWER than when I'm using prime.. Just, that near 100% cpu usage is worrying me, like I said, I didn't had those "issues" on FX8300. Yes, i5 6600k is A LOT better than FX8300 just, you know.. old habbits.
Also if CPU is idleing and waiting for GPU, RAM... shouldn't CPU usage then drop? For example, I play Apex Legends (kinda like Fortnite if anyone didn't played) my CPU is almost always near 100% usage WITH GTX 950... So if I upgrade to let's say GTX1080, there will be A LOT more graphic stuff FOR cpu to process?
Now I know this is not TRUE comparison, but on FX8300 I'm playing Apex on let's say 40% of CPU, so in my head I see plenty of room before I'm bottlenecked by CPU, but here... man, it's cutting close (based on numbers). As far as OC, I did OC from 3.5GHz to 4.8GHz, and there was huge increase in FPS in CS:GO, other games are mainly locked at 60fps vsync.
I tried testing Warframe with and without OC and FPS unlimited (vsync off) , I put 4 pictures with all info from HWInfo... If you take a look :

3.9GHz default clock, 60fps vsync : Task Manager = 47% CPU ; HWinfo = 38% CPU ; XTU = 41% CPU (60fps)
3.9GHz default clock, unlimited FPS : Task Manager = 74% CPU ; HWinfo = 62% CPU ; XTU = 68% CPU (68fps)
4.8GHz overclock, 60fps vsync : Task Manager = 57% CPU ; HWinfo = 35% CPU ; XTU = 38% CPU (60fps)
4.8GHz overclock, unlimited FPS : Task Manager 89% CPU ; HWinfo = 61% CPU ; XTU = 58% CPU(68fps)

Which one is accurate? IF I overclock, i get SAME fps but higher CPU usage (at least according to task manager), if I leave it at default clock I get lower CPU usage and SAME fps... :confused:

This is in open world area but SOLO, no other players, map is HUGE, I'm standing there "idle-ing", that's why all 4 pictures are basically same with different settings on CPU and VSYNC. Also picture are a bit large because I'm using dual monitor setup and info is right there (this is not just because of this, or to test it, I actually use dual monitor all the time)

MilanceX 03-12-2019 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadPwns (Post 27889252)
You will notice fps fluctuation after overclocking/underclocking regardless of whether the CPU is bottlenecking or not.

I just uploaded 2 zip files, no difference AT ALL with OC of not... at least in Warframe, in CSGO there is A LOT of difference

wingman99 03-12-2019 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanceX (Post 27889302)
Okay, this makes sense. Thank you.
I actually said that when I'm gaming, CPU temps are LOWER than when I'm using prime.. Just, that near 100% cpu usage is worrying me, like I said, I didn't had those "issues" on FX8300. Yes, i5 6600k is A LOT better than FX8300 just, you know.. old habbits.
Also if CPU is idleing and waiting for GPU, RAM... shouldn't CPU usage then drop? For example, I play Apex Legends (kinda like Fortnite if anyone didn't played) my CPU is almost always near 100% usage WITH GTX 950... So if I upgrade to let's say GTX1080, there will be A LOT more graphic stuff FOR cpu to process?
Now I know this is not TRUE comparison, but on FX8300 I'm playing Apex on let's say 40% of CPU, so in my head I see plenty of room before I'm bottlenecked by CPU, but here... man, it's cutting close (based on numbers). As far as OC, I did OC from 3.5GHz to 4.8GHz, and there was huge increase in FPS in CS:GO, other games are mainly locked at 60fps vsync.
I tried testing Warframe with and without OC and FPS unlimited (vsync off) , I put 4 pictures with all info from HWInfo... If you take a look :

3.9GHz default clock, 60fps vsync : Task Manager = 47% CPU ; HWinfo = 38% CPU ; XTU = 41% CPU (60fps)
3.9GHz default clock, unlimited FPS : Task Manager = 74% CPU ; HWinfo = 62% CPU ; XTU = 68% CPU (68fps)
4.8GHz overclock, 60fps vsync : Task Manager = 57% CPU ; HWinfo = 35% CPU ; XTU = 38% CPU (60fps)
4.8GHz overclock, unlimited FPS : Task Manager 89% CPU ; HWinfo = 61% CPU ; XTU = 58% CPU(68fps)

Which one is accurate? IF I overclock, i get SAME fps but higher CPU usage (at least according to task manager), if I leave it at default clock I get lower CPU usage and SAME fps... :confused:

This is in open world area but SOLO, no other players, map is HUGE, I'm standing there "idle-ing", that's why all 4 pictures are basically same with different settings on CPU and VSYNC. Also picture are a bit large because I'm using dual monitor setup and info is right there (this is not just because of this, or to test it, I actually use dual monitor all the time)

Windows does not actually measure the CPU utilization. Windows only knows how long it takes for instructions to be processed by everything in the PC, not how busy the CPU is by it self.

Windows just measures start time and stop time of instructions. If the CPU utilization is 80% for game and you overclock it will increase performance video card willing and stay at 80% utilization.

MilanceX 03-12-2019 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingman99 (Post 27889332)
Windows does not actually measure the CPU utilization. Windows only knows how long it takes for instructions to be processed by everything in the PC, not how busy the CPU is by it self.

Widows just measures start time and stop time of instructions.

So in other words, readings from HWinfo and XTU are most accurate, or they work in similar way as Task Manager?
If I replace my GPU to RX580 8GB, will that bottleneck my CPU? I mean, I know it's kinda hard to tell but, according to those google "bottleneck calculators" (i don't know how accurate they are) it says that they are basically perfect match ( 2.46% bottleneck on CPU or GPU ) according to that website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingman99 (Post 27889332)
If the CPU utilization is 80% for game and you overclock it will increase performance video card willing.

Okay, that's very nice to know... it will increase performance of GPU but at same time increase OR decrease CPU load?


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