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kevindd992002 06-08-2019 08:27 PM

11 Attachment(s)
Sorry for the double post here. I initially posted this in the AMD General section but since I really don't know which to choose between Intel and AMD, I figured reposting it here inatead. Mods, feel feel to delete my thread in the AMD General section if necessary.

I'm new to building sffpc's and my Sister asked me to build one for her as she will be using it for a bit of a rendering as she's an interior designer. She uses apps like these ones:

Sketchup, Autocad, 3dsmax, Adobe suite

Can you recommend some bang-for-the-buck parts that I can get for this? I'm from the Philippines so choices will be limited for sure.

All I have in mind now is the Phanteks Evolv Shift for the case. She wants something thin that can be used vertically and horizontally. And she wants a bit of a not gaming look style, so I find the Shift (and she liked it too) perfect. Any negatives on the Shift that I should know about?

So I'd definitely need some recommendations on CPU, RAM, MoBo, HDD, nVME SSD, GPU, and monitor. She wants a true color monitor so I figured a Mac IPS monitor would suit her but I don't know anything about Macs.

All parts that I know are for gaming so I'm really new to this field. Please help and thanks in advance.

kevindd992002 06-11-2019 09:17 AM

Any love here at all? :(

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

kevindd992002 07-30-2019 10:29 PM

BUMP! I'm down to motherboard and GPU now, please,

AlphaC 07-30-2019 11:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Autocad & 3dsmax don't have Quadro optimizations as far as I am aware due to being DirectX.


https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-m...h/td-p/8681995

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...-vray-and-more

TITAN RTX as baseline:
Attachment 284744
https://techgage.com/article/nvidia-...ance-review/5/


https://www.igorslab.media/nvidia-qu...ng-igorslab/5/
" Autodesk's AutoCAD is now almost a standard DirectX application, both in 2D design and shading in 3D views. "
"The 3D result is dominated again by Nvidia and everything is grouped as one would expect from a computer game and DirectX11 that is not exactly dead-optimized. But here, too, the differences can be measured and displayed in the bars, but are hardly noticeable in daily use."


Really I wouldn't look lower than 8GB GDDR6 VRAM so RTX 2070 Super (TU104 similar to RTX 2080) is a good bet at $500 for price/perf, it's the gamer version of $1000 RTX 4000 (TU104) with improved CUDA count. Could probably undervolt it and use Nvidia's Creator driver (not Quadro driver). Less than that there's the RTX 2070 / RTX 2060 Super 8GB but those are ~$400.

On Quadros the best you'll get for $500 is P2200 which is Pascal based GTX 1060 5GB GDDR5X.

kevindd992002 07-31-2019 01:45 PM

Hmmm, I kinda just have a $300-ish budget for GPU. Like I said, nothing too professional rendering would be used for this machine. I mean, sure, eventually it will be professional but my sister is just starting to do this. Can I not get away with a 2060 Super?

AlphaC 07-31-2019 02:00 PM

If RTX 2070 and RTX 2060 Super are the same price go for RTX 2070 as the RTX 2060 Super is a cut down RTX 2070 (TU106 GPU die). Normally those are $400 though.

The lowest I'd go is with RTX 2060 non-Super which is $330-350ish these days , that has 192-bit memory bus and 6GB GDDR6 VRAM. I don't think you're going to find anything worthwhile in the long run at $300 , because on the gaming GPU side that's GTX 1660 Ti and on the professional side it's Quadro P1000 which is below GTX 1050 level (it's a GP107 with 640 CUDA). There might be lower Turing parts in the pipeline since on notebook/mobile there are RTX 3000 (TU106 die with 2304 CUDA similar to RTX 2070, 6GB GDDR6 on 192-bit memory bus), T2000 (TU117 die , 4GB GDDR5 VRAM so not worth it) and T1000 parts. Normally all Quadros are around 2x the gaming counterparts due to binning for significantly lower power.

(https://www.anandtech.com/show/14421...-for-notebooks)

If it's Autodesk with Revit architecture and rendering is involved the Ray tracing cores are going to accelerate the workflow so much that GTX 1660 Ti is pointless.

kevindd992002 07-31-2019 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC (Post 28068132)
If RTX 2070 and RTX 2060 Super are the same price go for RTX 2070 as the RTX 2060 Super is a cut down RTX 2070 (TU106 GPU die). Normally those are $400 though.

The lowest I'd go is with RTX 2060 non-Super which is $330-350ish these days , that has 192-bit memory bus and 6GB GDDR6 VRAM. I don't think you're going to find anything worthwhile in the long run at $300 , because on the gaming GPU side that's GTX 1660 Ti and on the professional side it's Quadro P1000 which is below GTX 1050 level (it's a GP107 with 640 CUDA). There might be lower Turing parts in the pipeline since on notebook/mobile there are RTX 3000 (TU106 die with 2304 CUDA similar to RTX 2070, 6GB GDDR6 on 192-bit memory bus), T2000 (TU117 die , 4GB GDDR5 VRAM so not worth it) and T1000 parts. Normally all Quadros are around 2x the gaming counterparts due to binning for significantly lower power.

(https://www.anandtech.com/show/14421...-for-notebooks)

If it's Autodesk with Revit architecture and rendering is involved the Ray tracing cores are going to accelerate the workflow so much that GTX 1660 Ti is pointless.

I see what you're saying. So in general the 2070 is still better than the 2060 Super?

Would I want a Quadro card for my sister's use case though? I have zero knowledge about Quadros, sorry.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

AlphaC 07-31-2019 04:57 PM

RTX 2070 has more CUDA cores and more Ray tracing and tensor cores, it's outright better (than RTX 2060 Super). Because you're in the Philippines the pricing is the main thing to consider.

As for pro GPU: Not for 3dsmax or Autocad. Sketchup is a consumer application as well since they don't mention anything on workstation GPUs.
https://help.sketchup.com/en/sketchu...ended-sketchup

In your case there's no way you're going to fit a proper $400 GPU in there if you go with Quadro as the cheaper (more affordable rather, <$1K) Quadros are a generation old and have much less performance over two to three times less based on FP32 TFLOPs) for the main applications used.

About Quadros:

Quadros are only worth it when you are thermal/power constrained , need professional drivers, and can get a Quadro of similar performance in your application for about the same money or less. (For example if a TU106 RTX 3000 came out costing $500 vs a RTX 2070 Super for $500-550 , or if you didn't need Ray tracing and an unlikely 75W TU116 T2000 GPU comes out with GTX 1660 Ti performance for $350 vs a $280 GTX 1660 Ti / RTX 2060 6GB for $350 . The other point would be if your application runs poorly on gaming cards such that you get 10 FPS on a RTX 2080 Ti / RTX 2080 such as in Siemens NX but a Quadro P1000 gets 40+FPS).

The roadmap appears stark on the Quadro lineup below the $1K RTX 4000 (TU104, 2560 CUDA). There would need to be a RTX 3000 (2304 CUDA on mobile right now , but 1920 as RTX 2060 or 2176 as RTX 2060 Super is possible) around $600-700ish but that would only come out if AMD launched a midrange GPU to replace their really old 150W WX 7100 (RX 480 basically) at <$600. The current $400 offering is 1280 CUDA P2200 5GB GDDR5X based on GP106 (Pascal) launched in June 2019.

Right now in the professional market it is a Quadro landslide:
RTX 6000 (TU102 , 4608 CUDA , 24 GB GDDR6 on 384-bit bus) = ~$4K (launch at ~$6K), about $0.80 per CUDA core
RTX 5000 (TU104 , 3072 CUDA , 16 GB GDDR6 on 256-bit bus ) = $2K , about $0.65 per CUDA core ---- demolishes the $1.5K Radeon Pro WX 9100 (Vega64) ; competes price-wise with their own TU102 based RTX TITAN at $2.5K
RTX 4000 (TU104 , 2560 CUDA , 8GB GDDR6 on 256-bit bus) = $900-1K , about $0.35 per CUDA core ---- competes against $1K Radeon Pro WX 8200 8GB based on Vega 56 ; Vega Frontier Edition 16GB HBM2
<--- RTX 3000 mobile part with 2304 CUDA cores based on TU106
<--- TU106 would go here based on RTX 2070/RTX 2060 Super/RTX 2060
<--- TU116 based on GTX 1660 Ti / GTX 1660 could possibly go here
P2200 (GP106, 1280 CUDA , 5GB GDDR5X on 160-bit bus) = $400ish , about $0.31 per CUDA core but actually more money since Pascal cores have around 20% less instructions per clock = ~$0.38/CUDA core ---- competes against Radeon Pro WX 7100 based on the RX480
<--- T2000 mobile part , TU117 1024 CUDA cores with GDDR5 on 128-bit memory bus is pretty lame
P2000 superseced by P2200 (GP106, 1024 CUDA , 5GB GDDR5 on 160-bit bus) = $400ish , about $0.40 a CUDA core but with Pascal IPC
P1000 (GP107, 640 CUDA , 4GB GDDR5 on 128-bit bus) = $300ish , about $0.46 a CUDA core but with Pascal IPC --- competes with the Radeon Pro WX 5100 (cut down RX470D) and Radeon Pro WX 4100 (RX 560) on pricepoint but is faster oftentimes in professional workloads

kevindd992002 08-06-2019 04:15 PM

11 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaC (Post 28068402)
RTX 2070 has more CUDA cores and more Ray tracing and tensor cores, it's outright better (than RTX 2060 Super). Because you're in the Philippines the pricing is the main thing to consider.

As for pro GPU: Not for 3dsmax or Autocad. Sketchup is a consumer application as well since they don't mention anything on workstation GPUs.
https://help.sketchup.com/en/sketchu...ended-sketchup

In your case there's no way you're going to fit a proper $400 GPU in there if you go with Quadro as the cheaper (more affordable rather, <$1K) Quadros are a generation old and have much less performance over two to three times less based on FP32 TFLOPs) for the main applications used.

About Quadros:

Quadros are only worth it when you are thermal/power constrained , need professional drivers, and can get a Quadro of similar performance in your application for about the same money or less. (For example if a TU106 RTX 3000 came out costing $500 vs a RTX 2070 Super for $500-550 , or if you didn't need Ray tracing and an unlikely 75W TU116 T2000 GPU comes out with GTX 1660 Ti performance for $350 vs a $280 GTX 1660 Ti / RTX 2060 6GB for $350 . The other point would be if your application runs poorly on gaming cards such that you get 10 FPS on a RTX 2080 Ti / RTX 2080 such as in Siemens NX but a Quadro P1000 gets 40+FPS).

The roadmap appears stark on the Quadro lineup below the $1K RTX 4000 (TU104, 2560 CUDA). There would need to be a RTX 3000 (2304 CUDA on mobile right now , but 1920 as RTX 2060 or 2176 as RTX 2060 Super is possible) around $600-700ish but that would only come out if AMD launched a midrange GPU to replace their really old 150W WX 7100 (RX 480 basically) at <$600. The current $400 offering is 1280 CUDA P2200 5GB GDDR5X based on GP106 (Pascal) launched in June 2019.

Right now in the professional market it is a Quadro landslide:
RTX 6000 (TU102 , 4608 CUDA , 24 GB GDDR6 on 384-bit bus) = ~$4K (launch at ~$6K), about $0.80 per CUDA core
RTX 5000 (TU104 , 3072 CUDA , 16 GB GDDR6 on 256-bit bus ) = $2K , about $0.65 per CUDA core ---- demolishes the $1.5K Radeon Pro WX 9100 (Vega64) ; competes price-wise with their own TU102 based RTX TITAN at $2.5K
RTX 4000 (TU104 , 2560 CUDA , 8GB GDDR6 on 256-bit bus) = $900-1K , about $0.35 per CUDA core ---- competes against $1K Radeon Pro WX 8200 8GB based on Vega 56 ; Vega Frontier Edition 16GB HBM2
<--- RTX 3000 mobile part with 2304 CUDA cores based on TU106
<--- TU106 would go here based on RTX 2070/RTX 2060 Super/RTX 2060
<--- TU116 based on GTX 1660 Ti / GTX 1660 could possibly go here
P2200 (GP106, 1280 CUDA , 5GB GDDR5X on 160-bit bus) = $400ish , about $0.31 per CUDA core but actually more money since Pascal cores have around 20% less instructions per clock = ~$0.38/CUDA core ---- competes against Radeon Pro WX 7100 based on the RX480
<--- T2000 mobile part , TU117 1024 CUDA cores with GDDR5 on 128-bit memory bus is pretty lame
P2000 superseced by P2200 (GP106, 1024 CUDA , 5GB GDDR5 on 160-bit bus) = $400ish , about $0.40 a CUDA core but with Pascal IPC
P1000 (GP107, 640 CUDA , 4GB GDDR5 on 128-bit bus) = $300ish , about $0.46 a CUDA core but with Pascal IPC --- competes with the Radeon Pro WX 5100 (cut down RX470D) and Radeon Pro WX 4100 (RX 560) on pricepoint but is faster oftentimes in professional workloads

Don't worry about prices because I usually source my parts from the US. If I want to go with a 2060 instead, will I be losing significant amount of performance due to the slower and lesser VRAM and other things in consideration?

And what's your take on the 5700 and 5700XT for my use case?

kevindd992002 08-08-2019 03:43 PM

Hi @AlphaC . Do you still have any ideas on this? Thanks.


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