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-   -   Delidding gone bad after removal and glue (https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-intel-cpus/1727734-delidding-gone-bad-after-removal-glue.html)

Bun-Bun 06-18-2019 09:26 AM

Delidding gone bad after removal and glue
 
So as in my other thread for binning 8086Ks, I successfully delidded three CPUs. Two of them I glued right away with high temp silicone and the other one I used for a few months before disassembling and glueing.

Well, I screwed up a couple times and it took me a few attempts on this one to get the glue to hold. When I finally did get it the temps were bad, two cores 20-30 hotter than normal (back to pre delid temps). I removed, cleaned everything off and tried again. Now the temps were 100°C on those two cores instantly. Cores 4 and 5. Ok, removed again, tried without glueing. Temps better but those two cores still hotter. So I think I'm going to lap the base of the heatspreader to make more room for the glue, but those two cores are still hot even without glue.

Any ideas? Did I screw up the die somehow? I noticed when I cleaned off the conductonaut from the IHS it looked oxidized and no amount of scrubbing gets my paper towel not turning black immediately. I would lap in there but how do I lap the inside of the IHS?

Falkentyne 06-18-2019 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-Bun (Post 28009224)
So as in my other thread for binning 8086Ks, I successfully delidded three CPUs. Two of them I glued right away with high temp silicone and the other one I used for a few months before disassembling and glueing.

Well, I screwed up a couple times and it took me a few attempts on this one to get the glue to hold. When I finally did get it the temps were bad, two cores 20-30 hotter than normal (back to pre delid temps). I removed, cleaned everything off and tried again. Now the temps were 100°C on those two cores instantly. Cores 4 and 5. Ok, removed again, tried without glueing. Temps better but those two cores still hotter. So I think I'm going to lap the base of the heatspreader to make more room for the glue, but those two cores are still hot even without glue.

Any ideas? Did I screw up the die somehow? I noticed when I cleaned off the conductonaut from the IHS it looked oxidized and no amount of scrubbing gets my paper towel not turning black immediately. I would lap in there but how do I lap the inside of the IHS?

You can sand the die with 5000 grit sandpaper to make sure there are no strange imperfections on the top of the die.
But I recommend using a relid tool to relid, making sure you remove ALL of the old intel black silicone completely, and use four very small tiny drops of the RTV in each corner of the IHS, then let it cure in the relid kit for 2 hours. That's how I do it.

Bun-Bun 06-18-2019 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falkentyne (Post 28009288)
You can sand the die with 5000 grit sandpaper to make sure there are no strange imperfections on the top of the die.
But I recommend using a relid tool to relid, making sure you remove ALL of the old intel black silicone completely, and use four very small tiny drops of the RTV in each corner of the IHS, then let it cure in the relid kit for 2 hours. That's how I do it.

Yup that's exactly what I did. I posted about my first one here https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-in...ded-8350k.html

But on this chip its just not working... and while I was getting < 60°C doing Prime 1344s now those two cores get 75-100°C no matter what I do. Been using this chip since February delidded without issue until I went to glue it.

Only theory I have is I somehow warped the IHS.

Renegade5399 06-18-2019 10:20 AM

You get those temps if you run it bare die?

Bun-Bun 06-18-2019 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade5399 (Post 28009316)
You get those temps if you run it bare die?

I've never tried direct die mounting. Does the the die stick out past the socket bracket? Actually how does the cpu mount in the socket without the IHS?

EDIT: Ah, I have to remove the retention bracket and be careful.

I might try this tonight. Will see.

WannaBeOCer 06-18-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-Bun (Post 28009332)
I've never tried direct die mounting. Does the the die stick out past the socket bracket? Actually how does the cpu mount in the socket without the IHS?

I suggest sanding the bottom of the IHS. You'll need to take the stock intel mounting bracket off by unscrewing the three screws. I am cooling my 9900k using a direct die frame along with a supremacy block from Rockit 88. With my 3770k I used the EK precise mount kit for naked Ivy. I don't see any direct die frames for 8th generation so I suggest reading up on the screw size you'll need.

Did you remove all the adhesive from both the CPU substrate along with the IHS? If you don't your IHS won't make proper contact with the die.

Bun-Bun 06-18-2019 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28009342)
I suggest sanding the bottom of the IHS. You'll need to take the stock intel mounting bracket off by unscrewing the three screws. I am cooling my 9900k using a direct die frame along with a supremacy block from Rockit 88. With my 3770k I used the EK precise mount kit for naked Ivy. I don't see any direct die frames for 8th generation so I suggest reading up on the screw size you'll need.

By sanding the bottom do you mean the area the glue touches? or the die touches?

The area the glue touches should be easy, and I plan to do this tonight. But what about where the die touches? How can I get in there and be flat?

Renegade5399 06-18-2019 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bun-Bun (Post 28009344)
By sanding the bottom do you mean the area the glue touches? or the die touches?

The area the glue touches should be easy, and I plan to do this tonight. But what about where the die touches? How can I get in there and be flat?

Ya don't. At that point buy the CNC machined replacement copper IHS from RockIt. I think it's ~$20. I got mine for the 7900X for $13 during a sale.

Bun-Bun 06-18-2019 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade5399 (Post 28009424)
Ya don't. At that point buy the CNC machined replacement copper IHS from RockIt. I think it's ~$20. I got mine for the 7900X for $13 during a sale.

Ah yes, I see. https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/col...-lga-1150-1151

Was hoping something like this existed. Now I am not too worried about screwing up the IHS. Just buy that one.

Although I do have access to a CNC Mill. I could 3D print a jig and machine the inside surface.

Bun-Bun 06-19-2019 07:17 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Ok, I fixed it!

I sanded .006 off the base, cleaned everything up, used brasso on the inside of the IHS to get it real clean again, reapplied conductonaut and put 8 drops of high temp silicone around the heat spreader and made sure not to use too much force in the relid tool. Let it sit overnight, popped it in just now and didn't fully tighten the EK WB and 5.0GHz 1.3V 1344 Prime temps are 50°C average with all cores within a couple degrees of each other.

phew.

I've attached pics. You can see on the die I was a little worried about those scratches/scuffs, and the inside of the IHS was all black which I thought might have been hurting things. And looking at the substrate on end you can see it's warped. some further reading shows that others have the same issues when they use these long term without glueing the IHS back on. Then force from modern WB and HS&Fs puts too much pressure on the substrate if its not glued. That explains why I had issues glueing this one as well, the heatspreader wasn't sitting right against the substrate.

So lesson learned, glue these things after delidding. My other two I glued right away are fine. hopefully this one stays fine now too.


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