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-   -   I got old Intel instead of Ryzen 3000 (https://www.overclock.net/forum/297-general-processor-discussions/1729626-i-got-old-intel-instead-ryzen-3000-a.html)

1096bimu 07-16-2019 09:18 PM

I got old Intel instead of Ryzen 3000
 
2 Attachment(s)
Was planning on getting Ryzen 3000, but then I saw that 9900k is still king in games, Zen 2 while clearly superior in things like Cinebench, is not superior across the board, so that made me hesitate and didn't make the purchase the day it came out.
Instead I saw some rich asian student selling his used x99 kit to get Ryzen 3000, and I decided to get that instead.
It was a Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...1&d=1563333486
These are prices for CPU+mobo+32GB RAM only
All the new builds here have +13% HST included because I'm Canadian.
"IPC" here has no scientific proof, I basically looked at reviews and "eyeballed" them, they're estimates.
All the Ryzen build use memory that are ~$50 more expensive, because they are more sensitive to RAM performance.
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Sure there will be some combination of cheap mobo+2700x or 3700x that will end up roughly the same price, but I don't think the extra performance is worth the other deficiencies.

Interesting observation here is that Ryzen 3000 isn't that good for mainstream, a 3800x build overall costs about the same as a 9900k build. But the 3900x is much cheaper and faster than the 9820x, that's great for AMD, and I hope Intel will drop their HEDT prices to compete better.

So that's why I decided to go with 5960x, so much cheaper. Forgot to include Threadripper here, but it'll be about same price as 3900x for same core count, lower performance but without the PGA and mainstream drawbacks. I don't think that would've made sense because I'm mostly just gaming here.

When it comes to games, what performance you need is heavily dependent on what performance do the consoles have. Next-gen consoles will have 8c zen2 but at like 3Ghz or something, cuz it'll have to be cheap and power efficient. With the 5960x you can easily power through the IPC difference when it's clocked that low. So chances are good that I won't be CPU limited in any of the next gen games. Of course, Unity engine games with god awful optimization will still be problematic.

Another reason I decided to not go all-out on Ryzen 3000 is how strong Intel's SunnyCove is in terms of IPC, even though their fab is still ****, we can tell it's very strong because 10nm SunnyCove cores are 4.1Ghz are beating 9th gen at 4.5-4.7 Ghz, I believe that's a bigger lead than Zen2. So chances are good that when Intel sorts out their ****ty fabs, they'll be at least on par with Zen3 in terms of IPC. So I believe that will be a better time to buy, whether I end up buying Zen3 or Intel 10th gen, at the very least there will be more competition, lower prices and better products. Right now AMD is kind of sandbagging Intel with Zen2, and charging relatively high prices.

Also, I very much enjoyed the manual tuning with Intel processor with tones of headroom, and a true flagship mobo. With Ryzen 3000 it's basically plug and play, not much you can do at all.

Hwgeek 07-16-2019 10:14 PM

You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :-).

fragamemnon 07-16-2019 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28046950)
You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :-).


While I tend to agree with you, I would just like to point out that he's talking about $550 CAD, which is about $420 US.

dagget3450 07-16-2019 11:17 PM

I have both the 5960x and a ryzen 3600, guess which one is going to get gaming dedicated.(not Intel) Intels older CPUs are losing ground thanks to security flaws. To each their own I suppose...

mo0rd 07-17-2019 12:05 AM

You might regret this!

8051 07-17-2019 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28046950)
You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :-).

32GiB (4 x 8GiB) of DDR4-3000 is going for $140 new and his is CL15. 5960x's used on ebay R going for >$300 USD. He also gets 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes.

Hwgeek 07-17-2019 01:12 AM

So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :-).
it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.
https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=...=file&id=51765

Alastair 07-17-2019 01:19 AM

I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.

rdr09 07-17-2019 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28047082)
So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :-).
it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.
https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=...=file&id=51765

Why would they not include the 200$ R5 3600?

Hwgeek 07-17-2019 01:26 AM

since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?

Lexi is Dumb 07-17-2019 01:28 AM

But wouldn't it have been cheaper still to get a secondhand 1700 and have roughly the same perf with the benefit of a motherboard that might take a much faster 12 or 16 core chip later?

I also can't understand what the 9900k being best in gaming has to do with buying a chip that's slower than both CL and Zen 2 in gaming, especially one that sits closer to Zen 1 gaming performance :headscrat.

As long as you're happy with your choice and what it does for you that's all that matters, just saying I don't think I could come to the same conclusion based on the choices/info.
I just think there are better options for old and secondhand.

rdr09 07-17-2019 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28047100)
since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?

What it think is they want to make the other Ryzens shine. The op is canadian and prices in their country is ridiculously high. I think op made a wise decison.

1096bimu 07-17-2019 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28046950)
You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :-).

It's faster but not "much" faster by any means of the imagination.
To me "much faster" means 50% more single thread.

Also Ryzen 3000 is fast and low power but I don't think it's cool at all, it's just made from low grade reject server chips, where as the 5960x is a top quality, complete chip. Also there's nothing "advanced" about fans on chipsets. They can't even bother to make an effective heat sink because they want their boards to look like alien space ships.

And for the same price of $570 USD, I'd be looking at bottom end trash MB to go with the 3600. I would much rather prefer an ASUS ROG board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi is Dumb (Post 28047102)
But wouldn't it have been cheaper still to get a secondhand 1700 and have roughly the same perf with the benefit of a motherboard that might take a much faster 12 or 16 core chip later?

I also can't understand what the 9900k being best in gaming has to do with buying a chip that's slower than both CL and Zen 2 in gaming, especially one that sits closer to Zen 1 gaming performance :headscrat.

As long as you're happy with your choice and what it does for you that's all that matters, just saying I don't think I could come to the same conclusion based on the choices/info.
I just think there are better options for old and secondhand.

Yes it would, but there are massive down sides to Zen 1 and Zen+ with inter-core latency. Also I never wanted any of the mainstream boards, Even if I choose AMD it will have to be threadripper, but then thread ripper has too many threads that I don't need.

Also I think you're underestimating Intel, the 5960x is a match for Zen+ not Zen1 considering the clock speed advantages.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28047100)
since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?

Who's gonna run these old Intel chips at stock? They all had so much headroom.

AMD is for some reason ridiculously fast in Cinebench, but not so much in other things especially games. So I don't think 3600 is going to beat the 5960x in Cinebench MT.
The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me.

Yes I can absolutely sell these as well, but I think I'll use these to wait for next-gen. My old X79 has so many problems and quirks it takes like 5 minutes to boot up because the lack of UEFI, no NVME, and BIOS bugs that aren't getting fixed.

Liranan 07-18-2019 05:34 AM

While you are trying very hard to justify your purchase I don't think anyone should care. If you do nothing with your PC other than game on a clean install, with nothing running in the background, then Intel will serve you wonderfully.

So, enjoy your purchase and be happy to have a blue chip in your PC rather than a red one.

Edit: personally I thank AMD for giving us defective server chips, I highly appreciate the ECC support, which is why I have bought AMD for the past decade and will continue buying AMD.

Alex132 07-18-2019 06:03 AM

It's nice to see OCN's AMD evangelists get rather upset that you didn't purchase AMD - and then for them to completely disregard your reasoning and research.


You have to keep in mind something like my 9900K + Aorus Master + 32GB DDR4 3800mhz cost me around CAD 1900 including ON's 13% tax (Jan 2019). So CAD 750 for that is 253% cheaper.



And honestly, 750 CAD for that CPU, motherboard and RAM is a good deal. Sure you're losing out of performance but that price to performance is pretty neat. I'm guessing the OP is going to use this to tide him over until 10nm Intel or Zen refresh which is more compelling of an upgrade for him/her. Plus we don't know what CPU/etc. they came from.





What GPU are you paring with that out of interest?


Additionally: Anandtech article of 5960x v 2700x: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1317?vs=2110

andrews2547 07-18-2019 06:14 AM

I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

ThrashZone 07-18-2019 06:26 AM

Hi,
Looking at 6900 chips 8 core running at 800.us new 5960 and board/ ram for that price and works you chose well even a used 5960 would sell pretty fast and near probably what you paid for the entire system :thumb:

Liranan 07-18-2019 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28048894)
I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

For that price he, indeed, got a good deal as that RAM would cost me 2/3 of that 550 he spent. As I said, I hope he's happy with his purchase and enjoys it for years to come.

lightsout 07-18-2019 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwgeek (Post 28047082)
So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :-).

it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.

https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=...=file&id=51765



This looks cool and all on paper. But seems kind of pointless, you can't divorce a CPUs performance from clock speeds. At least and still have a fair test. Pretty much all of those Intel chips can do another GHz no problem.

I like the chart because I am rooting for the underdog. But in real life those goes would close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dagget3450 07-18-2019 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28048894)
I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28048888)
It's nice to see OCN's AMD evangelists get rather upset that you didn't purchase AMD - and then for them to completely disregard your reasoning and research.


You have to keep in mind something like my 9900K + Aorus Master + 32GB DDR4 3800mhz cost me around CAD 1900 including ON's 13% tax (Jan 2019). So CAD 750 for that is 253% cheaper.



And honestly, 750 CAD for that CPU, motherboard and RAM is a good deal. Sure you're losing out of performance but that price to performance is pretty neat. I'm guessing the OP is going to use this to tide him over until 10nm Intel or Zen refresh which is more compelling of an upgrade for him/her. Plus we don't know what CPU/etc. they came from.





What GPU are you paring with that out of interest?


Additionally: Anandtech article of 5960x v 2700x: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1317?vs=2110

Did you guys read the first post? Its not a "hey i got a great deal on used 5960x and decided against buying anything new for now." When i read it all i see is OP talking about how 9900k is superior in gaming and AMD cannot do anything right and just sucks for everyone. Everything in the post is about how the OP has disdain for AMD and how intel is superior. Like was he really considering AMD at all?

Look at his reply as well "The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me." Really now? So why make a post about how intel cpu is better than AMD even today. Like here is another Pro intel thread and citing Intel gaming performance as king. YET GAMES AT 4k!? So now why even bother talking about whats superior or not, just would have been easy to say "i got a awesome deal"

just for reference 4k gaming on 2080ti
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-...38410-2160.png

DR4G00N 07-18-2019 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair (Post 28047090)
I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.

PGA is just an inferior socket design to LGA all around. LGA is overall simpler, more reliable, scales well to larger sizes and has better electrical & mechanical characteristics. I've never had to straighten a pin on my LGA cpu's so I don't know how having a chip with pins is a good thing? Also PGA sockets themselves have pins that can bend or break too, they're just under a plastic cover instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28048894)
I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

I don't really get it either, the 5960X is a good cpu, a bit old yes, but still plenty powerful. It not like it's going to be lacking for playing games, it'll loose like 5-10fps but when your doing over 100fps already does it really matter?

andrews2547 07-18-2019 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
Did you guys read the first post? Its not a "hey i got a great deal on used 5960x and decided against buying anything new for now." When i read it all i see is OP talking about how 9900k is superior in gaming and AMD cannot do anything right and just sucks for everyone. Everything in the post is about how the OP has disdain for AMD and how intel is superior. Like was he really considering AMD at all?

Look at his reply as well "The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me." Really now? So why make a post about how intel cpu is better than AMD even today. Like here is another Pro intel thread and citing Intel gaming performance as king. YET GAMES AT 4k!? So now why even bother talking about whats superior or not, just would have been easy to say "i got a awesome deal"

just for reference 4k gaming on 2080ti
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-...38410-2160.png


Yeah, the difference at 4K is so small that it doesn't really matter. What does matter is the price difference. $550 for the Intel vs $1350 for a 3800X. In this case, does make the 5960X is "superior" choice.

ThrashZone 07-18-2019 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liranan (Post 28048914)
For that price he, indeed, got a good deal as that RAM would cost me 2/3 of that 550 he spent. As I said, I hope he's happy with his purchase and enjoys it for years to come.

@1096bimu
Hi,
All the op has to do to accomplish that is to manually set VCCIO cpu 1.05 voltage to it's default voltage which is yes 1.05v

New broardwell-e bios shoot it up to 1.25v+ way too much and might be why quite a few broadwell-e and haswell-e systems were fried
This overshot of vccio cpu happens just by increasing memory frequency past default 2133MHz !!!

Silly seeing haswell-e bios never did it ever always pretty much stayed 1.05v +- a hair not a mile :)

PontiacGTX 07-18-2019 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28048894)
I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

exactly price/performance is better than most in the chart also a 1700x couldnt match it because if OP oced to 4.6ghz+ intel is still faster maybe if 1st-2nd gen ryzen could oc to 4.6ghz+ all core then yes it would be a bad value

ThrashZone 07-18-2019 07:25 AM

Hi,
Yeah way too easy to disable meltdown and spectre nonsense
https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm

Alex132 07-18-2019 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
Did you guys read the first post? Its not a "hey i got a great deal on used 5960x and decided against buying anything new for now."

Yes it is.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28046896)
Another reason I decided to not go all-out on Ryzen 3000 is how strong Intel's SunnyCove is in terms of IPC, even though their fab is still ****, we can tell it's very strong because 10nm SunnyCove cores are 4.1Ghz are beating 9th gen at 4.5-4.7 Ghz, I believe that's a bigger lead than Zen2. So chances are good that when Intel sorts out their ****ty fabs, they'll be at least on par with Zen3 in terms of IPC. So I believe that will be a better time to buy, whether I end up buying Zen3 or Intel 10th gen, at the very least there will be more competition, lower prices and better products. Right now AMD is kind of sandbagging Intel with Zen2, and charging relatively high prices.




Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
When i read it all i see is OP talking about how 9900k is superior in gaming and AMD cannot do anything right and just sucks for everyone. Everything in the post is about how the OP has disdain for AMD and how intel is superior. Like was he really considering AMD at all?

Objectively, the 9900k is better than the current AMD offerings for gaming (albeit barely).


Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
Look at his reply as well "The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me." Really now? So why make a post about how intel cpu is better than AMD even today.

Those concepts are not interlinked with one-another. You can both have a lack of requirement of CPU performance at a high resolution and for Intel to offer a faster gaming CPU than AMD currently.


Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
Like here is another Pro intel thread and citing Intel gaming performance as king.

Not sure if you've been in the news threads in the past few years, it's normally the opposite here :upsidedwn


Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
YET GAMES AT 4k!? So now why even bother talking about whats superior or not, just would have been easy to say "i got a awesome deal"

He wanted to give his reasoning/thought process? I don't see why that's gotten you upset.

briank 07-18-2019 07:43 AM

How well does Nickelback overclock?

dagget3450 07-18-2019 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28048992)
Yes it is.







Objectively, the 9900k is better than the current AMD offerings for gaming (albeit barely).



Those concepts are not interlinked with one-another. You can both have a lack of requirement of CPU performance at a high resolution and for Intel to offer a faster gaming CPU than AMD currently.


Not sure if you've been in the news threads in the past few years, it's normally the opposite here :upsidedwn



He wanted to give his reasoning/thought process? I don't see why that's gotten you upset.


Except this whole theory falls apart @ gaming 4k. You could literally find many old intel cpu thats cost less than 100$ usd and game @ 4k60 while pretty much having identical performance.

criminal 07-18-2019 08:33 AM

5960x is still a strong cpu. That's what I upgraded from. Your build looks nice.

Alex132 07-18-2019 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049062)
Except this whole theory falls apart @ gaming 4k. You could literally find many old intel cpu thats cost less than 100$ usd and game @ 4k60 while pretty much having identical performance.

Don't think so, my 2500k @ 5ghz really struggled at 1440p with my 1080 Ti.

JackCY 07-18-2019 08:41 AM

Sorry to break it to you but "Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550." is hardly worth $550. Ryzen has beaten it long ago in performance and value. The only thing having any value in that is the RAM but even that now should not be as overpriced as it was 1-2 years ago. So you pretty much paid same money for a used old power hungry Intel system that you could have spent on a brand new with warranty AMD system consuming fraction of the power.

If you wanted that extra 1-2% fps performance in low quality games at high fps you should have gotten that overpriced 9900K that costs $550 alone.

jamaican voodoo 07-18-2019 08:49 AM

Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're just justifying your purchase of old intel processor, i don't really care why its your money but this thread is pointless and should be lock!

eneq 07-18-2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
To me "much faster" means 50% more single thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
Also Ryzen 3000 is fast and low power but I don't think it's cool at all, it's just made from low grade reject server chips

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
Also I never wanted any of the mainstream boards

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
AMD is for some reason ridiculously fast in Cinebench

Nuff said... but hey whatever floats your boat. It's a cheap PC and if it works for you...

WannaBeOCer 07-18-2019 09:52 AM

Haters are gonna hate, enjoy your new setup!

dagget3450 07-18-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28049102)
Don't think so, my 2500k @ 5ghz really struggled at 1440p with my 1080 Ti.

Nice oranges(4core cpu and 1440p) to apples(i7 8c/16t 4k) comparison. I am not going to straw man with you, plenty of reviews and data out there go against your opinion. Your rebuttal implies nothing about 4k gaming.

You can make a thread about disadvantages of cpu architectures of brand new cpus and various reasons why you didn't buy them for gaming. You instead bought older worse hardware using gaming as your primary target. All of which are pointless because you game @ 4k. Someone comes along to point this out and they are "upset".

Even the idea of a good deal on a 5960x is wavering when you game at 4k.Your cpu range(x58/x79 Xeons etc) is a lot wider field of options and GPU bound if your so stuck on intel. Throwing in AMD cpu used offerings is just icing on the cake.

Alex132 07-18-2019 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackCY (Post 28049106)
Sorry to break it to you but "Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550." is hardly worth $550.

Why?



Quote:

Originally Posted by JackCY (Post 28049106)
Ryzen has beaten it long ago in performance and value. The only thing having any value in that is the RAM but even that now should not be as overpriced as it was 1-2 years ago.
If you wanted that extra 1-2% fps performance in low quality games at high fps you should have gotten that overpriced 9900K that costs $550 alone.

To restate what has been said before: Even if you were to go with a 3700X, X570 and 32GB DDR4 you'd still be looking at CAD1100-1300. Considering he stated this is to tide him over until the next generation is more tempting to go for, I don't see your point other than to be abrasive and convince people that your opinion is the correct one while disregarding any circumstances.


Additionally, when he does resell it - it will lose less value than a new system would.



Quote:

Originally Posted by JackCY (Post 28049106)
So you pretty much paid same money for a used old power hungry Intel system that you could have spent on a brand new with warranty AMD system consuming fraction of the power.

Citation required. Please find a Ryzen 3700X system for CAD750 incl tax. Also, the power draw thing is very moot, saving a few cents on a power bill should not be an influencing factor which may result in purchasing a potentially worse product.




Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaican voodoo (Post 28049112)
Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're just justifying your purchase of old intel processor, i don't really care why its your money but this thread is pointless and should be lock!

Enforcing rules because you don't agree with someone's opinion is extremely dangerous line to tread.






Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049314)
Nice oranges(4core cpu and 1440p) to apples(i7 8c/16t 4k) comparison. I am not going to straw man with you, plenty of reviews and data out there go against your opinion. Your rebuttal implies nothing about 4k gaming.




Well, your words were literally:
Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049314)
Except this whole theory falls apart @ gaming 4k. You could literally find many old intel cpu thats cost less than 100$ usd and game @ 4k60 while pretty much having identical performance.

Ergo my comparison. Even a 2500k used will cost more than $100 so I assumed you were thinking of a CPU even worse than that.

andrews2547 07-18-2019 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaican voodoo (Post 28049112)
Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're just justifying your purchase of old intel processor, i don't really care why its your money but this thread is pointless and should be lock!


Nah, it's fine for now.

fragamemnon 07-18-2019 11:22 AM

It's very sad that another thread went down south so quickly.


Can't we all take things a bit more tolerantly?


1. Yes, the OP did purchase an old system. But for pretty good penny, and it's well worth the relatively minor investment.
2. From the "intonation" of his posts I gather that OP has something against AMD's lineup. But I accept that and move along. - Other members see it too, some maybe choose to turn a blind eye, or honestly don't percieve it.

3. The 5960x is still nowhere near the point in time to be completely dismissed as obsolete. Even for gaming.


To be honest, if I were him, I'd make the same choice, although for different reasons (price/performance). Not because I dislike PGA or fancy symmetrical memory alignment - which I can understand; I know people who really appreciate such looks. Not because AMD offers "reject low grade server chips", and not because the 9900k exists.


Jeez...

dagget3450 07-18-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28049320)
Why?




To restate what has been said before: Even if you were to go with a 3700X, X570 and 32GB DDR4 you'd still be looking at CAD1100-1300. Considering he stated this is to tide him over until the next generation is more tempting to go for, I don't see your point other than to be abrasive and convince people that your opinion is the correct one while disregarding any circumstances.


Additionally, when he does resell it - it will lose less value than a new system would.




Citation required. Please find a Ryzen 3700X system for CAD750 incl tax. Also, the power draw thing is very moot, saving a few cents on a power bill should not be an influencing factor which may result in purchasing a potentially worse product.





Enforcing rules because you don't agree with someone's opinion is extremely dangerous line to tread.











Well, your words were literally:

Ergo my comparison. Even a 2500k used will cost more than $100 so I assumed you were thinking of a CPU even worse than that.

Did you see i said Xeons? You have options like e5-1650v2 as a quick example its ~100$ online.


andrews2547 07-18-2019 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049350)
Did you see i said Xeons? You have options like e5-1650v2 as a quick example its ~100$ online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJLOcC0WWkQ


Actually, you didn't. You said "any old Intel CPU for $100" or something along those lines.

Alex132 07-18-2019 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049350)
Did you see i said Xeons?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...27/unknown.png




Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28049350)
You have options like e5-1650v2 as a quick example its ~100$ online.

A few things;
I think you're taking out context the fact that the OP got it as a bundle, then and there with everything working and what he wanted in a very short time-span.


You words leave very little interpretation you but you seem to be trying to backpedal. You stated "(m)any old Intel CPU". But I when I gave context to one, it was not the correct "(m)any old Intel CPU"?


I'm not sure what you're entirely trying to prove or say, maybe that you can get good deals on older specific CPUs which may perform reasonably well at gaming at 4k? While that's not entirely incorrect, it's not relevant given the circumstances and seemingly is only used to try and bring down other people's choices.

dagget3450 07-18-2019 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28049384)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...27/unknown.png





A few things;
I think you're taking out context the fact that the OP got it as a bundle, then and there with everything working and what he wanted in a very short time-span.


You words leave very little interpretation you but you seem to be trying to backpedal. You stated "(m)any old Intel CPU". But I when I gave context to one, it was not the correct "(m)any old Intel CPU"?


I'm not sure what you're entirely trying to prove or say, maybe that you can get good deals on older specific CPUs which may perform reasonably well at gaming at 4k? While that's not entirely incorrect, it's not relevant given the circumstances and seemingly is only used to try and bring down other people's choices.

This took a left turn when OP said 4k gaming. The whole thread is a rant about cpu performance and gaming, but halfway through it was 4k gaming. Which now here we are nitpicking about specific older cpu model from intel that can be used for gaming and more specifically 4k gaming. which you want to tell me your 2500k couldn't do well at 1440p . I didn't buy it and i still don't buy it. 4k gaming is simply GPU bound in general terms. You can do it on some very cheap used cpus without much loss.

The word xeon is in my post #35 of this thread, i did not edit it. So maybe the search feature is not working but also shows you skimmed over it.

1096bimu 07-18-2019 04:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28048940)
Did you guys read the first post? Its not a "hey i got a great deal on used 5960x and decided against buying anything new for now." When i read it all i see is OP talking about how 9900k is superior in gaming and AMD cannot do anything right and just sucks for everyone. Everything in the post is about how the OP has disdain for AMD and how intel is superior. Like was he really considering AMD at all?

Look at his reply as well "The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me." Really now? So why make a post about how intel cpu is better than AMD even today. Like here is another Pro intel thread and citing Intel gaming performance as king. YET GAMES AT 4k!? So now why even bother talking about whats superior or not, just would have been easy to say "i got a awesome deal"

No, I said Zen 2 doesn't have an advantage across the board, because it doesn't have an advantage for gaming, it's just wickedly fast for cinebench and other rendering applications, what's wrong with that?

It doesn't matter if you game at 60fps these CPUs can all drive the game to beyond 120fps, again what's wrong with that? That I have a 0.5ms higher latency?



Quote:

Originally Posted by fragamemnon (Post 28049336)
It's very sad that another thread went down south so quickly.

1. Yes, the OP did purchase an old system. But for pretty good penny, and it's well worth the relatively minor investment.
2. From the "intonation" of his posts I gather that OP has something against AMD's lineup. But I accept that and move along. - Other members see it too, some maybe choose to turn a blind eye, or honestly don't percieve it.

I have nothing against AMD, I also don't like the 9900k because it's mainstream and it's only dual channel. AMD HEDT is a real choice for me, if it had higher ST, like say we get a Threadripper 3000 with 2CCX 16 cores for a fair price, I wouldn't mind that at all.

I'm not gonna get that old Xeon because that's basically what I had before, the 3930k also running at 4.4Ghz. It did fine in games but I wanted to upgrade because X79 did not have NVME or UEIF or even SATA3 (only 2), plus the boot sequence on my old school PCI-E SSD, and a BIOS bug that causes the overclock to fail until you try exactly two times, simply booting up the system took up to 5 minutes and constant user input. But once it boots up it works fine in all the games.

BTW for the GPU, I recently got a 2080ti, also second hand but brand new, if that makes any sense.

BroadPwns 07-18-2019 04:53 PM

This thread is ridiculous from the very opening post.

J7SC 07-18-2019 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadPwns (Post 28049922)
This thread is ridiculous from the very opening post.


...yeah, but entertaining in a strange sort of way :)

serave 07-18-2019 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28049862)
No, I said Zen 2 doesn't have an advantage across the board, because it doesn't have an advantage for gaming, it's just wickedly fast for cinebench and other rendering applications, what's wrong with that?

It doesn't matter if you game at 60fps these CPUs can all drive the game to beyond 120fps, again what's wrong with that? That I have a 0.5ms higher latency?





I have nothing against AMD, I also don't like the 9900k because it's mainstream and it's only dual channel. AMD HEDT is a real choice for me, if it had higher ST, like say we get a Threadripper 3000 with 2CCX 16 cores for a fair price, I wouldn't mind that at all.

I'm not gonna get that old Xeon because that's basically what I had before, the 3930k also running at 4.4Ghz. It did fine in games but I wanted to upgrade because X79 did not have NVME or UEIF or even SATA3 (only 2), plus the boot sequence on my old school PCI-E SSD, and a BIOS bug that causes the overclock to fail until you try exactly two times, simply booting up the system took up to 5 minutes and constant user input. But once it boots up it works fine in all the games.

BTW for the GPU, I recently got a 2080ti, also second hand but brand new, if that makes any sense.

Are those pump/res combo you're using for the 2080Ti? From what brand are they?

I'm looking into similar solution for my Radeon VII

ThrashZone 07-18-2019 07:05 PM

Hi,
Boom nice build :thumb:

Mysticial 07-18-2019 07:16 PM

TIL:

The best way to get a bunch of fanboys on both sides to converge on one thread is to pick one over the other and ask to justify it.

DaaQ 07-18-2019 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28049862)
No, I said Zen 2 doesn't have an advantage across the board, because it doesn't have an advantage for gaming, it's just wickedly fast for cinebench and other rendering applications, what's wrong with that?

It doesn't matter if you game at 60fps these CPUs can all drive the game to beyond 120fps, again what's wrong with that? That I have a 0.5ms higher latency?





I have nothing against AMD, I also don't like the 9900k because it's mainstream and it's only dual channel. AMD HEDT is a real choice for me, if it had higher ST, like say we get a Threadripper 3000 with 2CCX 16 cores for a fair price, I wouldn't mind that at all.

I'm not gonna get that old Xeon because that's basically what I had before, the 3930k also running at 4.4Ghz. It did fine in games but I wanted to upgrade because X79 did not have NVME or UEIF or even SATA3 (only 2), plus the boot sequence on my old school PCI-E SSD, and a BIOS bug that causes the overclock to fail until you try exactly two times, simply booting up the system took up to 5 minutes and constant user input. But once it boots up it works fine in all the games.

BTW for the GPU, I recently got a 2080ti, also second hand but brand new, if that makes any sense.

I'm sorry, but I need to ask because I can't tell. Is the Aquafina bottle inside the case or a reflection? Really looks like it inside.

Blameless 07-18-2019 11:35 PM

Keeping in mind the OP's prices are in CAD, it's not a bad deal.

A similar new setup, Intel or AMD, with the same budget, would not be faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28046896)
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Fortunately you didn't have to pay too much to cater to your aesthetic sensibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28046988)
Intels older CPUs are losing ground thanks to security flaws.

Only readily apparent in very I/O heavy tasks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair (Post 28047090)
I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.

In most cases I'd rather the board be the more fragile component because it's usually cheaper.

Regardless, I've fixed even more bent LGA socket pins than I have PGA CPU pins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28048894)
I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.

It wasn't a bad deal, but I think some of the reasoning behind the decision is nuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28049102)
Don't think so, my 2500k @ 5ghz really struggled at 1440p with my 1080 Ti.

A 5GHz 2500K is worse in many modern gaming scenarios than plenty of Westmeres...just doesn't have enough cores.

A Haswell-E is not going to be the limiting factor in most high-res/detail gaming scenarios.

rdr09 07-19-2019 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless (Post 28050294)
Keeping in mind the OP's prices are in CAD, it's not a bad deal.

A similar new setup, Intel or AMD, with the same budget, would not be faster.

^this. Op, being canadian really did good with the cost of his build.

dagget3450 07-19-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28049862)
No, I said Zen 2 doesn't have an advantage across the board, because it doesn't have an advantage for gaming, it's just wickedly fast for cinebench and other rendering applications, what's wrong with that?

It doesn't matter if you game at 60fps these CPUs can all drive the game to beyond 120fps, again what's wrong with that? That I have a 0.5ms higher latency?





I have nothing against AMD, I also don't like the 9900k because it's mainstream and it's only dual channel. AMD HEDT is a real choice for me, if it had higher ST, like say we get a Threadripper 3000 with 2CCX 16 cores for a fair price, I wouldn't mind that at all.

I'm not gonna get that old Xeon because that's basically what I had before, the 3930k also running at 4.4Ghz. It did fine in games but I wanted to upgrade because X79 did not have NVME or UEIF or even SATA3 (only 2), plus the boot sequence on my old school PCI-E SSD, and a BIOS bug that causes the overclock to fail until you try exactly two times, simply booting up the system took up to 5 minutes and constant user input. But once it boots up it works fine in all the games.

BTW for the GPU, I recently got a 2080ti, also second hand but brand new, if that makes any sense.

Few things to clear up. I never disputed the hardware was a good price/deal. The issue is in your main OP you are going into nuances of brand new cpu architecture and Single thread /Gaming performance. Not sure if OP was edited, but you were blasting things about plastic socket vs metal sockets and inter-core latency etc. Most of the post is criticizing AMD cpu/mainboard offerings.
Majority of it is vain or cosmetic complaints and almost irrelevant performance complaints. I was mostly onboard with the assessment of gaming performance(thought you were 1080p/1440p max) which is the real meat of the whole thing.

However... later you mention 4k gaming. Going from a 3930k 4.4 to a 5960x is going to net you what ~1% at 4k in fps? From strictly a performance standpoint which was the primary focus of your post you spent 550$ to get ~1% fps 4k gaming(most games).

This is why i see it as a waste of money personally. It's why i posted the 2080ti 4k gaming chart that shows this very thing. I am sure though i was labeled a fanboy from my first post and beyond, because people now all of a sudden in an act of disagreement that 4k gaming isn't GPU bound. All of a sudden CPU is the biggest factor.(why i also went into older intel cpus that cost less than 100$)

It's your money and your decision to nitpick whatever you want. Its also a public forum and people will have opposing views as well.

Serious_Don 07-19-2019 12:40 PM

I just bought a 3700x and would love to score a cheap 5970x to play with and hopefully not blow up.

Since they're so dated somebody should donate me one!

Computering!

Nice deal op. Not like he'll lose much on resale if he decides he needs more power later...

1096bimu 07-19-2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaaQ (Post 28050142)
I'm sorry, but I need to ask because I can't tell. Is the Aquafina bottle inside the case or a reflection? Really looks like it inside.

It's inside, it's the perfect height to hold up the graphics card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serave (Post 28050070)
Are those pump/res combo you're using for the 2080Ti? From what brand are they?

I'm looking into similar solution for my Radeon VII

Just some cheap watercooling combo I got from EK,, one thick 360 rad cools everything. Been using this for over 3 years.
Also with this case, I am running only two 200mm fans for the entire thing, the fans are at the bottom, the case is sealed so all the air end up going through the rad, much quieter than sticking fans on the rad like I did before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28051266)
Few things to clear up. I never disputed the hardware was a good price/deal. The issue is in your main OP you are going into nuances of brand new cpu architecture and Single thread /Gaming performance. Not sure if OP was edited, but you were blasting things about plastic socket vs metal sockets and inter-core latency etc. Most of the post is criticizing AMD cpu/mainboard offerings.
Majority of it is vain or cosmetic complaints and almost irrelevant performance complaints. I was mostly onboard with the assessment of gaming performance(thought you were 1080p/1440p max) which is the real meat of the whole thing.

However... later you mention 4k gaming. Going from a 3930k 4.4 to a 5960x is going to net you what ~1% at 4k in fps? From strictly a performance standpoint which was the primary focus of your post you spent 550$ to get ~1% fps 4k gaming(most games).

This is why i see it as a waste of money personally. It's why i posted the 2080ti 4k gaming chart that shows this very thing. I am sure though i was labeled a fanboy from my first post and beyond, because people now all of a sudden in an act of disagreement that 4k gaming isn't GPU bound. All of a sudden CPU is the biggest factor.(why i also went into older intel cpus that cost less than 100$)

It's your money and your decision to nitpick whatever you want. Its also a public forum and people will have opposing views as well.

And those are real problems for me if I was going to get an AMD build, why can't I talk about them? These aren't even inherent AMD problems, other than inter-core latency, I'd happily buy threadripper 3000

There's probably zero improvement in FPS because I run with limited FPS or Vsync all the time. That's why I said it was mostly a feature update, didn't want to deal with the tripple reboot thing I had to do with the old system.

This was the cheapest thing I could buy to solve my booting problems, and have a small performance upgrade, and not have the things I didn't want like dual channel, plastic sockets or cheap low-end mobos. It's not like I'll get an FPS boost from a Ryzen 3000 upgrade anyway and it would be almost twice as expensive if I want anything of a decent board.

Buris 07-19-2019 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28051830)
It's inside, it's the perfect height to hold up the graphics card.



Just some cheap watercooling combo I got from EK,, one thick 360 rad cools everything. Been using this for over 3 years.
Also with this case, I am running only two 200mm fans for the entire thing, the fans are at the bottom, the case is sealed so all the air end up going through the rad, much quieter than sticking fans on the rad like I did before.


And those are real problems for me if I was going to get an AMD build, why can't I talk about them? These aren't even inherent AMD problems, other than inter-core latency, I'd happily buy threadripper 3000

There's probably zero improvement in FPS because I run with limited FPS or Vsync all the time. That's why I said it was mostly a feature update, didn't want to deal with the tripple reboot thing I had to do with the old system.

This was the cheapest thing I could buy to solve my booting problems, and have a small performance upgrade, and not have the things I didn't want like dual channel, plastic sockets or cheap low-end mobos. It's not like I'll get an FPS boost from a Ryzen 3000 upgrade anyway and it would be almost twice as expensive if I want anything of a decent board.


If you didn't have enough money to buy Ryzen 3000 just say it, but don't make up excuses trying to justify your purchase. X570 is superior to your current motherboard in every imaginable way, even in memory bandwidth, unless you specifically disable all the security patches. I also assure you my Aorus Master X570 has better VRM's than your motherboard, especially when you take into account the degradation of your board.

With that being said, you definitely got a deal.

ozlay 07-19-2019 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdr09 (Post 28050316)
^this. Op, being canadian really did good with the cost of his build.

Yeah, But wouldn't a last generation Ryzen 2700 or 1700 be around the same price? :)

rdr09 07-20-2019 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozlay (Post 28051916)
Yeah, But wouldn't a last generation Ryzen 2700 or 1700 be around the same price? :)

True except op does not like mainstream. BUT, he did plan to get the Ryzen 3000 at one point. lol

doritos93 07-20-2019 07:16 AM

9900k still top dog for gaming so op made a good decision

maltamonk 07-20-2019 08:11 AM

Personally I'd use it until I could sell the older components, then get better performing ones (notice I didn't mention a brand). That said there's a lot here that doesn't add up.

andrews2547 07-20-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozlay (Post 28051916)
Yeah, But wouldn't a last generation Ryzen 2700 or 1700 be around the same price? :)


No. It's in the OP. A 2700X would be ~$325 more and I really doubt a 1700 will be $325 cheaper than a 2700X.

nvidiaftw12 07-20-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28049320)
Why?




To restate what has been said before: Even if you were to go with a 3700X, X570 and 32GB DDR4 you'd still be looking at CAD1100-1300. Considering he stated this is to tide him over until the next generation is more tempting to go for, I don't see your point other than to be abrasive and convince people that your opinion is the correct one while disregarding any circumstances.


Additionally, when he does resell it - it will lose less value than a new system would.




Citation required. Please find a Ryzen 3700X system for CAD750 incl tax. Also, the power draw thing is very moot, saving a few cents on a power bill should not be an influencing factor which may result in purchasing a potentially worse product.





Enforcing rules because you don't agree with someone's opinion is extremely dangerous line to tread.











Well, your words were literally:

Ergo my comparison. Even a 2500k used will cost more than $100 so I assumed you were thinking of a CPU even worse than that.


Thread is a trainwreck but... there was a guy that sold 4 2500ks for $47 each I think. This was months ago too. They're cheap now.


And he's right, a 2500k in 1440p is totally apples and oranges to an 8 core on 4k. I'm not stating that those were the terms of the original discussion, but he right about that.

oreonutz 07-20-2019 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28046896)
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Wow.... Just wow.

I am not mad, nor should anyone be mad at your justification at running older kit. Personally I just purchased a 6850x and an Asus x99-a Mobo with 32GB of DDR4 for $250 because the CPU was "Broken", I was able to painstakingly bend a few pins back in Place and Fix a UEFI Error by Pulling out the CMOS Chip and Erasing it with my CMOS Reader and Flashing a fresh UEFI onto it, and now I got a platform that still goes for ridiculously High Prices for cheaper than I could have gotten me a 3600x for. Of course I am only using it as a Storage Server and Cable Card TV Recording System, and it works great for that, but will probably sell it in the near future for probably double what I paid for it to someone who thinks like you, who values the way the socket looks Metal, and likes the way the Symmetry looks! LOL!!!!

Sorry, not usually an *******, just couldn't help myself here....

Also I would like to point out that, just because the Reviewers have no idea how to Overclock and Tinker with Ryzen parts doesn't mean there aren't awesome ways to do so. I agree that Overclocking an Intel part is much more straight forward because its how its been done for years, and its pretty easy to get a 5% gain or more out of them by hitting a multiplier and voltage setting, and OCing the Cache a little, I won't deny that is fun. But I have to point out that it is still possible to tune the Ryzen parts to also get more performance for your particular scenario, its just done differently then an Intel Enthusiast is used too. You not only have PBO to play with, but now with the 3rd gen parts we have Per CCX Overclocking to play with that lets you get the best out of both High Threaded Situations and Lightly threaded situations, you now get an IF Setting to play with, and of Course OCing Memory is now becoming more exciting on a 3rd gen Ryzen part too, so there is still plenty for an enthusiast to tinker with. The Reviewers just haven't seem to figure that out yet, well De8auer has, but you get my point.

Anyways, that is an awesome platform and you shouldn't feel bad about getting a good deal for it, and people shouldn't give you **** for liking it, but you also shouldn't pretend like the Ryzen parts aren't a better option for most users, even for gaming, unless of course they want symmetry and metal on their CPU Socket as well!!!

Sorry, I will F Off now, thanks, I needed a good laugh!

ozlay 07-20-2019 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28052450)
No. It's in the OP. A 2700X would be ~$325 more and I really doubt a 1700 will be $325 cheaper than a 2700X.

That says $100 more for a 2700x. A 2700 is $100 cheaper. So about the same price. :)

Alex132 07-20-2019 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 (Post 28052490)
Thread is a trainwreck but... there was a guy that sold 4 2500ks for $47 each I think. This was months ago too. They're cheap now.

Interesting, they're still charging way too much for them over here.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 (Post 28052490)
And he's right, a 2500k in 1440p is totally apples and oranges to an 8 core on 4k. I'm not stating that those were the terms of the original discussion, but he right about that.

To be fair he said(m)any old Intel CPU - and it was the only datapoint I had.





Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052556)
who values the way the socket looks Metal, and likes the way the Symmetry looks! LOL!!!!

Sorry, not usually an *******, just couldn't help myself here....

I don't see how the symmetry is invalid? I way prefer the look of X79, X99, X299, etc. with the DIMM banks on either side of the CPU socket. It's much more aesthetically pleasing.



Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052556)
Also I would like to point out that, just because the Reviewers have no idea how to Overclock and Tinker with Ryzen parts doesn't mean there aren't awesome ways to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052556)
But I have to point out that it is still possible to tune the Ryzen parts to also get more performance for your particular scenario, its just done differently then an Intel Enthusiast is used too. You not only have PBO to play with, but now with the 3rd gen parts we have Per CCX Overclocking to play with that lets you get the best out of both High Threaded Situations and Lightly threaded situations, you now get an IF Setting to play with, and of Course OCing Memory is now becoming more exciting on a 3rd gen Ryzen part too, so there is still plenty for an enthusiast to tinker with. The Reviewers just haven't seem to figure that out yet, well De8auer has, but you get my point.


I saw this with VEGA a fair amount too, what is it with comments about "reviewers don't know how to overclock these products - you shouldn't trust their results!" It's weird and borderline conspiracy theorist. And a lot of the time many people don't want to bother with more intricate settings that are complex and different.





Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052556)
I agree that Overclocking an Intel part is much more straight forward because its how its been done for years, and its pretty easy to get a 5% gain or more out of them by hitting a multiplier and voltage setting, and OCing the Cache a little, I won't deny that is fun.

I have seen this a bit - how overclocking got easier - and honestly it was harder to overclock my 9900K than my 2500k. I found the 9900K is a lot more sensitive to going too far one way or another on specific settings. Resulting in a lot of trial and error with voltages, frequencies and other settings. And weirdly enough I'd say my Phenom II was even easier than either of them to overclock.


But importantly harder to overclock =/= better. I do see the inference that difficulty in overclocking is better around here sometimes.

oreonutz 07-20-2019 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28052652)

I don't see how the symmetry is invalid? I way prefer the look of X79, X99, X299, etc. with the DIMM banks on either side of the CPU socket. It's much more aesthetically pleasing.

I am sorry, I forget that we also are now including the Martha Stewart's of PC Building among Enthusiasts now. Its up to you what you assign value to in your PC Platform, and I shouldn't knock you for that, so your right, if you find it valuable, then to you it is valuable, its just funny to me, as I come from a time when the value was all in Performance. Don't get me wrong we like to make things look good too, but that was always an after thought after performance, and in no way Dictated the platform we were choosing, but these are different times now, so my bad...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28052652)

I saw this with VEGA a fair amount too, what is it with comments about "reviewers don't know how to overclock these products - you shouldn't trust their results!" It's weird and borderline conspiracy theorist. And a lot of the time many people don't want to bother with more intricate settings that are complex and different.

Woooo, slow down there buddy. I can see how its easy to just lump everyone in together, but you will never catch me peddling conspiracies about not being able to trust reviewers results. I am sorry if that's what you inferred from my statement, but that was not at all my intent. I am simply stating that there are gains to be had, but because most of us get our knowledge from reviewers, especially those of us who don't actually own the hardware and are just trying to stay in the loop, certain narratives and ideas start to become the common belief among enthusiasts, and they are not always necessarily the truth. I am not at all saying that the was the reviewers intent, for god sakes they had maybe 2 weeks to try to review all angles of 6 Different SKU's, 4 from AMD, 2 From NVIDIA, and had to include Dozens more parts with relevant data. That makes it hard to learn all the nuances of every part and become expert on them to disseminate that knowledge to the masses, and I 100 Percent get that. Its just unfortunate that sometimes ideas from that can take on a life of its own, even when it may not be 100 Percent true. It is indeed a pain in ass to OC a Ryzen 3000 Part, and if OCing the Traditional way you do end up loosing performance in certain scenarios, that is absolutely true. But what isn't commonly known is that there are Many other ways to Overclock these parts to get even better performance than stock out of these chips, its just not in any way what we are used too, and it would be awesome if that knowledge could spread a little more to let the Enthusiast who gets there Ryzen 3000 Chip know that he can indeed Overclock it. Again, slow down with the accusations my friend, just because one criticizes a field, does not mean one is peddling conspiracies about said field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28052652)
But importantly harder to overclock =/= better. I do see the inference that difficulty in overclocking is better around here sometimes.

I also was not implying that the way to OC Ryzen was better than Intel, to be clear. I actually quite enjoy OCing on the Intel Platform, even the 9900k which I agree can be a b*tch. I own way to many CPU's to count, and test even more because its part of my job, and I love the intricacies with tuning MOST of them. If you are a gamer with money in your pocket to burn, and you just needed the highest amount of FPS, damn everything else including money, and you were my client, I would absolutely still build you a 9900k system and then OC that baby to 5.2 to 5.3Ghz All Core, and Do My Best to get your First 2 Cores To even Higher. In my testing this STILL DOMINATES the 3800x/3900x for pure FPS and Frame Time, and when running 1080p at Medium Settings with a 240hz Monitor in Competitive titles, The 9900k/9700k really does drive that panel better then the 3800x/3900x system. I personally do have a BIAS toward AMD for many reasons, but I can acknowledge that and look past it because I value real data for both myself and clients. But for most of my clients, playing at 1080 Ultra settings, and especially higher Resolutions with a 60 to 120hz panel, there is a negligible difference between the 2 platforms, I have done quite a few tests before the 3000 Series even came out, and I haven't found one person who could accurately guess which platform was which when the FPS wasn't on screen, and the 3000 series brings the difference even closer together. So when I can bring my clients a platform that has better support and longevity, equal or better performance in their applications, and Equal or Cheaper Total Platform price, then that decision is easy. Sometimes it does mean going Intel, before 2017 it was 100% of the time Intel because I personally COULD NOT STAND working with the FX Platform, or the Opteron Platform, but lately its been easier to recommend Red. Now as far as difficult Overclocking being better than easy overclocking, you again were inferring a message to my words that I was not implying. For most users having an easy way to overclock is obviously better in my eyes. I don't think just because something is harder that it is better. In fact you still will get more out of your processor Overclocking with Intel then you will with AMD. My Message was simply that there is a way to OC Ryzen that does actually give you a benefit contrary to popular opinion, and that was it. Most people do not realize that believe it or not, and that was my message. Anyways, I am going to get out of here, I just thought the reasons given were funny, but I forget its a new era of PC Enthusiasts where Looks matter more then performance. I guess I will have to get used to that...

andrews2547 07-20-2019 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozlay (Post 28052592)
That says $100 more for a 2700x. A 2700 is $100 cheaper. So about the same price. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28046896)
Was planning on getting Ryzen 3000, but then I saw that 9900k is still king in games, Zen 2 while clearly superior in things like Cinebench, is not superior across the board, so that made me hesitate and didn't make the purchase the day it came out.
Instead I saw some rich asian student selling his used x99 kit to get Ryzen 3000, and I decided to get that instead.
It was a Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...1&d=1563333486
These are prices for CPU+mobo+32GB RAM only
All the new builds here have +13% HST included because I'm Canadian.
"IPC" here has no scientific proof, I basically looked at reviews and "eyeballed" them, they're estimates.
All the Ryzen build use memory that are ~$50 more expensive, because they are more sensitive to RAM performance.
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Sure there will be some combination of cheap mobo+2700x or 3700x that will end up roughly the same price, but I don't think the extra performance is worth the other deficiencies.

Interesting observation here is that Ryzen 3000 isn't that good for mainstream, a 3800x build overall costs about the same as a 9900k build. But the 3900x is much cheaper and faster than the 9820x, that's great for AMD, and I hope Intel will drop their HEDT prices to compete better.

So that's why I decided to go with 5960x, so much cheaper. Forgot to include Threadripper here, but it'll be about same price as 3900x for same core count, lower performance but without the PGA and mainstream drawbacks. I don't think that would've made sense because I'm mostly just gaming here.

When it comes to games, what performance you need is heavily dependent on what performance do the consoles have. Next-gen consoles will have 8c zen2 but at like 3Ghz or something, cuz it'll have to be cheap and power efficient. With the 5960x you can easily power through the IPC difference when it's clocked that low. So chances are good that I won't be CPU limited in any of the next gen games. Of course, Unity engine games with god awful optimization will still be problematic.

Another reason I decided to not go all-out on Ryzen 3000 is how strong Intel's SunnyCove is in terms of IPC, even though their fab is still ****, we can tell it's very strong because 10nm SunnyCove cores are 4.1Ghz are beating 9th gen at 4.5-4.7 Ghz, I believe that's a bigger lead than Zen2. So chances are good that when Intel sorts out their ****ty fabs, they'll be at least on par with Zen3 in terms of IPC. So I believe that will be a better time to buy, whether I end up buying Zen3 or Intel 10th gen, at the very least there will be more competition, lower prices and better products. Right now AMD is kind of sandbagging Intel with Zen2, and charging relatively high prices.

Also, I very much enjoyed the manual tuning with Intel processor with tones of headroom, and a true flagship mobo. With Ryzen 3000 it's basically plug and play, not much you can do at all.


OP got it for $550. A 2700X build (as listed there) is ~$325 more.

Serious_Don 07-20-2019 03:08 PM

I also agree with his distaste for the plastic PGA socket. They get brittle over years of heavy use due to high socket temps and are prone to literally disintegrating when you try to swap CPUs.

I went with 3700x this time around because I don't want to lock into a 9900k with no upgrade path, but had to point that out, I wish AMD would step it up to a socket that can endure years of high temperatures and a handful of CPU swaps. I still bench and beat on my 775 board regularly and that socket is literally bulletproof.

(note this shouldn't matter for normal use, especially people who set and forget their CPU -- i'm talking 5 years of use and 5+ CPU swaps, but they do get brittle and come apart if you aren't careful)

/rant

Alex132 07-20-2019 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052734)
I am sorry, I forget that we also are now including the Martha Stewart's of PC Building among Enthusiasts now. Its up to you what you assign value to in your PC Platform, and I shouldn't knock you for that, so your right, if you find it valuable, then to you it is valuable, its just funny to me, as I come from a time when the value was all in Performance. Don't get me wrong we like to make things look good too, but that was always an after thought after performance, and in no way Dictated the platform we were choosing, but these are different times now, so my bad...

I like the visual aspects of DIMM slots on either side of the CPU socket - I don't think there's anything wrong with that? It's akin to having a favourite color - it's a visual opinion and not objectively correct/incorrect. Motherboard visuals and performance do not have to be mutually exclusive.



Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052734)
I am simply stating that there are gains to be had, but because most of us get our knowledge from reviewers, especially those of us who don't actually own the hardware and are just trying to stay in the loop, certain narratives and ideas start to become the common belief among enthusiasts, and they are not always necessarily the truth. I am not at all saying that the was the reviewers intent, for god sakes they had maybe 2 weeks to try to review all angles of 6 Different SKU's, 4 from AMD, 2 From NVIDIA, and had to include Dozens more parts with relevant data. That makes it hard to learn all the nuances of every part and become expert on them to disseminate that knowledge to the masses, and I 100 Percent get that. Its just unfortunate that sometimes ideas from that can take on a life of its own, even when it may not be 100 Percent true. It is indeed a pain in ass to OC a Ryzen 3000 Part, and if OCing the Traditional way you do end up loosing performance in certain scenarios, that is absolutely true. But what isn't commonly known is that there are Many other ways to Overclock these parts to get even better performance than stock out of these chips, its just not in any way what we are used too, and it would be awesome if that knowledge could spread a little more to let the Enthusiast who gets there Ryzen 3000 Chip know that he can indeed Overclock it. Again, slow down with the accusations my friend, just because one criticizes a field, does not mean one is peddling conspiracies about said field.

Yeah I don't disagree with that at all, was just saying what I noticed as it happened a lot with the VEGA release.



Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052734)
I also was not implying that the way to OC Ryzen was better than Intel, to be clear. I actually quite enjoy OCing on the Intel Platform, even the 9900k which I agree can be a b*tch. I own way to many CPU's to count, and test even more because its part of my job, and I love the intricacies with tuning MOST of them. If you are a gamer with money in your pocket to burn, and you just needed the highest amount of FPS, damn everything else including money, and you were my client, I would absolutely still build you a 9900k system and then OC that baby to 5.2 to 5.3Ghz All Core, and Do My Best to get your First 2 Cores To even Higher. In my testing this STILL DOMINATES the 3800x/3900x for pure FPS and Frame Time, and when running 1080p at Medium Settings with a 240hz Monitor in Competitive titles, The 9900k/9700k really does drive that panel better then the 3800x/3900x system. I personally do have a BIAS toward AMD for many reasons, but I can acknowledge that and look past it because I value real data for both myself and clients. But for most of my clients, playing at 1080 Ultra settings, and especially higher Resolutions with a 60 to 120hz panel, there is a negligible difference between the 2 platforms, I have done quite a few tests before the 3000 Series even came out, and I haven't found one person who could accurately guess which platform was which when the FPS wasn't on screen, and the 3000 series brings the difference even closer together. So when I can bring my clients a platform that has better support and longevity, equal or better performance in their applications, and Equal or Cheaper Total Platform price, then that decision is easy. Sometimes it does mean going Intel, before 2017 it was 100% of the time Intel because I personally COULD NOT STAND working with the FX Platform, or the Opteron Platform, but lately its been easier to recommend Red. Now as far as difficult Overclocking being better than easy overclocking, you again were inferring a message to my words that I was not implying. For most users having an easy way to overclock is obviously better in my eyes. I don't think just because something is harder that it is better. In fact you still will get more out of your processor Overclocking with Intel then you will with AMD. My Message was simply that there is a way to OC Ryzen that does actually give you a benefit contrary to popular opinion, and that was it. Most people do not realize that believe it or not, and that was my message.

Don't really disagree with anything in that either, apart from having a bias towards a company which I personally don't understand.


I think you did miss that I was talking about OCN/PC community in general in addition to your post - but that wasn't really obvious from my side to be fair.



Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052734)
Anyways, I am going to get out of here, I just thought the reasons given were funny, but I forget its a new era of PC Enthusiasts where Looks matter more then performance. I guess I will have to get used to that...

Looks matter to me, and like I stated before they rarely are mutually exclusive options these days.

Of slight relevance would be me getting my Z390 Aorus Master; I do prefer other Z390 designs and wasn't a fan of Gigabyte from bad past experiences. However, it's features, components and performance made it too much of a compelling purchase against the rival motherboards.

NotForKids 07-20-2019 04:30 PM

You chose an outdated architecture with more and more security flaws appearing instead of a newer architecture that has room for improvement.

DDR4 pricing? Fine tune a memory overclock and you can purchase lower speed kits and push them for even more performance.

To be fair, you're thinking like a gamer, and acting like one. Hurr durr this benchmark, that benchmark. It's not like there is a difference in unzipping a compressed file on 5960x and Ryzen 3? Oh woops, real world usage =/= gamer.

cssorkinman 07-20-2019 04:53 PM

Shoulda got FX instead ;)

http://www.technologyx.com/featured/...ce-showdown/2/

oreonutz 07-20-2019 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don (Post 28052838)
I also agree with his distaste for the plastic PGA socket. They get brittle over years of heavy use due to high socket temps and are prone to literally disintegrating when you try to swap CPUs.

I went with 3700x this time around because I don't want to lock into a 9900k with no upgrade path, but had to point that out, I wish AMD would step it up to a socket that can endure years of high temperatures and a handful of CPU swaps. I still bench and beat on my 775 board regularly and that socket is literally bulletproof.

(note this shouldn't matter for normal use, especially people who set and forget their CPU -- i'm talking 5 years of use and 5+ CPU swaps, but they do get brittle and come apart if you aren't careful)

/rant

So, I have never seen the Plastic Sockets Disintegrate, and I still have The Old Phenom and Athlon Boards and especially that Phenom Chip I put through hell, but I have a few in the garage, and I live in Vegas, so if anything makes them disintegrate then this constant heat should do it. That said, if thats the experience you have with them, if I had that same experience I would share your distaste with them. I again have never seen that, but if that is a problem then thats definitely a good reason to avoid them. Because they don't look as sleek, when your water block or big ass heatsink will be concealing it, well I find that a bit silly, but I also could just be out of touch...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex132 (Post 28052848)
I like the visual aspects of DIMM slots on either side of the CPU socket - I don't think there's anything wrong with that? It's akin to having a favourite color - it's a visual opinion and not objectively correct/incorrect. Motherboard visuals and performance do not have to be mutually exclusive.




Yeah I don't disagree with that at all, was just saying what I noticed as it happened a lot with the VEGA release.




Don't really disagree with anything in that either, apart from having a bias towards a company which I personally don't understand.


I think you did miss that I was talking about OCN/PC community in general in addition to your post - but that wasn't really obvious from my side to be fair.




Looks matter to me, and like I stated before they rarely are mutually exclusive options these days.

Of slight relevance would be me getting my Z390 Aorus Master; I do prefer other Z390 designs and wasn't a fan of Gigabyte from bad past experiences. However, it's features, components and performance made it too much of a compelling purchase against the rival motherboards.

Yeah don't mind me, I was being a snob. I completely understand the symmetry on both sides looking better, I have just never heard it used as a justification for picking one platform over another and I decided to be a dick about it.

As far as the bias, I completely understand, I think people who value one company over another is completely stupid, every product should be looked at on a case by case basis with no regards towards who makes the product, and evaluated on the merits. A company's one objective is to make money and could care less about you, so its stupid to blindly buy just because one company makes it over the other.

That said, I personally do just that, and live by it, but I am also aware of myself enough to know that I will always go toward an AMD Product first, I guess because of Marketing that I fall for, or because they have always been the underdog, I don't know exactly why, but I do know that with myself I do tend to lean towards AMD. The difference between me and a lot of blind fan boys (Of AMD, Intel, NVidia, or any of the rest) is that I recognize that, and will pull myself out of that before making a decision to evaluate the true merits of what it is I am purchasing for myself or a client. So having a bias, I ultimately can understand because I know I have one, but being blindly loyal, that is what I wish there was less of, but there is a lot of people out there who just think with there emotions unfortunately, not sure there is much the rest of us can do to change that.

Anyways, I agree with pretty much everything you said, even that I often find Intel Boards more aesthetically pleasing. Personally I though Gigabytes Z390 Boards were so damn Sexy, with those actual Nickel Plated Copper Heatsinks! I fell in LOVE! So much that on my 9900K Build I made them the center peice. So Believe me I understand it, I just did my research first to make sure they could properly drive my 9900K to its limit without issue, and thankfully it could or I wouldn't have got it. So you can of course achieve both, I think I just have a hard time understanding deciding to go with a more expensive platform simply because I like the way it looks better. Now once I have chosen a platform for whatever reason, finding a set of boards that perform the best on that platform, and then choosing the one that looks the best, I understand that, but simply choosing something because it looks good alone, I just find that hard to fathom. But I also shouldn't be such a snob, ultimately you should always do what you think is best for you, damned what any other ******* on the internet says or thinks.

Serious_Don 07-20-2019 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28052994)
So, I have never seen the Plastic Sockets Disintegrate, and I still have The Old Phenom and Athlon Boards and especially that Phenom Chip I put through hell, but I have a few in the garage, and I live in Vegas, so if anything makes them disintegrate then this constant heat should do it. That said, if thats the experience you have with them, if I had that same experience I would share your distaste with them. I again have never seen that, but if that is a problem then thats definitely a good reason to avoid them. Because they don't look as sleek, when your water block or big ass heatsink will be concealing it, well I find that a bit silly, but I also could just be out of touch...

It's not a distaste enough for me to stop buying them, hence why I grabbed the X570 Aorus Pro, I just have to agree with him that they could be better. I'm in the southeast (~90F right now) and used to keep them in the garage.. Not sure ambient is the issue. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, most of my failures happened with AM3+ boards running FX 4-8 core CPUs. The socket temps on those when overclocked gets massive to the point where you can barely run them without strapping a fan to the backplate. I did a good bit of benching those and had a few sockets become very brittle and literally fall to pieces when lifting the CPU locking arm.

I don't recall any issues with my older AM2+ and AM3 boards running athlons and phenoms, they just weren't cranking out nearly as much power. So I guess I could modify my comment to say that I don't believe these sockets can withstand 5 years of running way above ambient.

I'm running an Asus M5A99FX Pro r.2 right now with a noctua nhd15 on it, with all my tabs going in the browser and the AC cranked in the house, the package temps are low enough to where they just bug out showing 24C, but the socket temp is 40C and this is only at 4.2ghz, with a 120mm fan zip tied to the backplate. At 4.5ghz and without that fan the socket will shoot right up towards 80C and stay there while the CPU is barely 50. I think it's years of temps like that capable of wearing the socket out.

Don't care about looks obviously, I just think the metal lid on 775 and above is far more durable than the plastic AMD socket.

Anyway, maybe that is just my test sample of 1 person issue, but it's happened a number of times.

oreonutz 07-20-2019 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don (Post 28053052)
It's not a distaste enough for me to stop buying them, hence why I grabbed the X570 Aorus Pro, I just have to agree with him that they could be better. I'm in the southeast (~90F right now) and used to keep them in the garage.. Not sure ambient is the issue. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, most of my failures happened with AM3+ boards running FX 4-8 core CPUs. The socket temps on those when overclocked gets massive to the point where you can barely run them without strapping a fan to the backplate. I did a good bit of benching those and had a few sockets become very brittle and literally fall to pieces when lifting the CPU locking arm.

I don't recall any issues with my older AM2+ and AM3 boards running athlons and phenoms, they just weren't cranking out nearly as much power. So I guess I could modify my comment to say that I don't believe these sockets can withstand 5 years of running way above ambient.

I'm running an Asus M5A99FX Pro r.2 right now with a noctua nhd15 on it, with all my tabs going in the browser and the AC cranked in the house, the package temps are low enough to where they just bug out showing 24C, but the socket temp is 40C and this is only at 4.2ghz, with a 120mm fan zip tied to the backplate. At 4.5ghz and without that fan the socket will shoot right up towards 80C and stay there while the CPU is barely 50. I think it's years of temps like that capable of wearing the socket out.

Don't care about looks obviously, I just think the metal lid on 775 and above is far more durable than the plastic AMD socket.

Anyway, maybe that is just my test sample of 1 person issue, but it's happened a number of times.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thats funny, I have a "Server" thats an FX Build, that used to use that VERY MOBO, now its on the Sabertooth 990FX R3, but I LITERALLY JUST retired it, in favor of this new Intel 6850k Build I just setup. I didn't bother to check either Socket after, both of them are sitting in my office with their Coolers and Chips still mounted to the board. The M5A99FX Pro R2 with the fx-8350 that probably got beat up the most, ran that build from Jan 2013 (when I finally gave up on the promise of FX for Gaming) until April 2017 with an Overclock of 4.9Ghz on a Hyper 212 Evo, I finally have a few Caps on the Board Blow in April, and that when I bought the Sabertooth 990FX Board because it was the best I could find to get the damn rig back up and running, and I remember Newegg had a steal on it, it was right after the launch of Ryzen and I was able to get it and a FX 9590 for $175, so I did and threw them in the Rig with a Corsair H100i and ran that OC'd to 5.2Ghz until less than a Week ago when I finally switched it all over to the i7-6850k. I wonder if either of my sockets are messed up, I am going to check it out and let you know. These chips held up good for what they were, I personally HATED using them, ESPECIALLY without an SSD, but I basically needed the build to run my Storage and CableCard Cable TV Recording/Plex/Kodi Server that I use to serve up TV to my entire House. It also automatically converted all TV Recordings to h264 and then later h265 while not recording TV, and because I have 18 Tuners, it meant this server literally ran at 65 to 95% usage at all times, 24/7 a day for almost 7 Years. I bet that plastic is all brittle now. Will let you know. (I can say I am happy with the new setup now that I am finished setting it all up in their separate VMs, the Handbrake encoding literally takes almost half the time to Convert which is awesome.) Anyways, will shut up now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don (Post 28053052)
It's not a distaste enough for me to stop buying them, hence why I grabbed the X570 Aorus Pro, I just have to agree with him that they could be better. I'm in the southeast (~90F right now) and used to keep them in the garage.. Not sure ambient is the issue. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, most of my failures happened with AM3+ boards running FX 4-8 core CPUs. The socket temps on those when overclocked gets massive to the point where you can barely run them without strapping a fan to the backplate. I did a good bit of benching those and had a few sockets become very brittle and literally fall to pieces when lifting the CPU locking arm.

I don't recall any issues with my older AM2+ and AM3 boards running athlons and phenoms, they just weren't cranking out nearly as much power. So I guess I could modify my comment to say that I don't believe these sockets can withstand 5 years of running way above ambient.

I'm running an Asus M5A99FX Pro r.2 right now with a noctua nhd15 on it, with all my tabs going in the browser and the AC cranked in the house, the package temps are low enough to where they just bug out showing 24C, but the socket temp is 40C and this is only at 4.2ghz, with a 120mm fan zip tied to the backplate. At 4.5ghz and without that fan the socket will shoot right up towards 80C and stay there while the CPU is barely 50. I think it's years of temps like that capable of wearing the socket out.

Don't care about looks obviously, I just think the metal lid on 775 and above is far more durable than the plastic AMD socket.

Anyway, maybe that is just my test sample of 1 person issue, but it's happened a number of times.

I stand Corrected! Dude, I have never seen this before, but you learn something new every day. Yeah I agree, they should switch over to a more durable socket, this is ridiculous!

So my Sabertooth Socket is completely fine, but the board is barely 2 years old, so I would expect that. The M5A99FX on the other hand. I just heated it up with a heatgun like I always do when demounting a cooler on an AM2/3/4 Socket, we all know even the best Thermal Paste acts like Glue on these damn chips and I have had to fix the Pins on too many AMD Chips, so I just use the Hot Gun Method to heat up the Paste, then the Cooler comes right off without Pulling the Chip out of the Socket. Anyways, I lift up the retention arm after it cooled down, picked up the Chip, then when I put the arm back down It literally came out of the socket. Never seen that **** before. When trying to put it back in I broke more of the socket. This **** is brittle as hell. So Yeah man, you are absolutely right. I got curious and threw it on the test bench, put the chip back in it, you have to fiddle with where the retention bracket is supposed to be to get the holes on the socket to open up, but once the chip is mounted inside it still boots up, so at least the board still works, but yeah any resell value this board has is gone now (granted it probably had none to begin with, but still.)

So yeah, just wanted to let you know, I tested it and you are absolutely right. It does appear that the Sabertooth is using a much more durable plastic, so I am not sure if the same would happen in this case, but knowing that the Socket itself is usually manufactured at a third party distributor, there probably isn't more then a handful of choices to get these sockets from, lets hope that these Expensive x570 Board Makers are choosing a more Durable Socket option to purchase and incorporate in their designs...

Notanymore 07-23-2019 03:50 PM

Do I care if I'm getting 100 fps (AMD) while gaming instead of 102 fps (intel)? Nope. And I'm smoking intel everywhere else...LOL! It's a no-brainer. A mere 2% hardly qualifies declaring intel as "better at gaming." And what do you want 150 fps for anyway when 60 fps is optimal?

Apokalipse 07-23-2019 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
Also Ryzen 3000 is fast and low power but I don't think it's cool at all, it's just made from low grade reject server chips, where as the 5960x is a top quality, complete chip.

This is only relative to the CPUs of the same architecture, manufactured on the same manufacturing process.
These are two completely different CPUs on two completely different manufacturing processes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
Also there's nothing "advanced" about fans on chipsets.

You can run it on an X470 board. X570 just gives you PCI-E 4.0, basically. And you're already going without PCI-E 4.0 with a 5960X.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
They can't even bother to make an effective heat sink because they want their boards to look like alien space ships.

Well yeah, but that's not up to AMD, that's up to the motherboard manufacturers.

Besides, I wouldn't classify the heatsinks on the Rampage V to be 'real heatsinks' either. They were definitely designed for looks over function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
Also I think you're underestimating Intel, the 5960x is a match for Zen+ not Zen1 considering the clock speed advantages.

A 5960X doesn't reach the clock speeds that a 9900K does. You might get 4.2-4.4 out of it, which is not much more than Zen+ gets.

I know, because I still have a 5960X, which I've run for like 4 years. I'll be replacing it with either the 3950X, or one of the ThreadRippers.

EDSin87 07-24-2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28046988)
I have both the 5960x and a ryzen 3600, guess which one is going to get gaming dedicated.(not Intel) Intels older CPUs are losing ground thanks to security flaws. To each their own I suppose...

This was one of the reasons why I actually went AMD. Don't get me wrong, there may be security issues that my hit AMD in the future (hopefully not), but how the last security breach was handled and how it impacted most Intel based systems, it made it quite easy for me to make the swap.

I have a 3800x, and while I like the 4.4ghz boost, I am not too comfortable with the 1.48-1.5v that runs through it. Yes, I know, AMD has stated it is perfectly safe. I just don't like that high voltage regardless.

While my Intel based system with an 8700k was great to overclock and great in games, I did BSOD somewhat often than normal. Some games would crash after install and I couldn't figure out why, especially after a fresh Windows install.

Just last night I attempted to install one of those games, and it worked on my AMD system. Keep in mind, the only components I swapped was the chip and mobo, all other components are the same! So far I am liking the chip!

Serious_Don 07-24-2019 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreonutz (Post 28054490)
I stand Corrected! Dude, I have never seen this before, but you learn something new every day. Yeah I agree, they should switch over to a more durable socket, this is ridiculous!

So my Sabertooth Socket is completely fine, but the board is barely 2 years old, so I would expect that. The M5A99FX on the other hand. I just heated it up with a heatgun like I always do when demounting a cooler on an AM2/3/4 Socket, we all know even the best Thermal Paste acts like Glue on these damn chips and I have had to fix the Pins on too many AMD Chips, so I just use the Hot Gun Method to heat up the Paste, then the Cooler comes right off without Pulling the Chip out of the Socket. Anyways, I lift up the retention arm after it cooled down, picked up the Chip, then when I put the arm back down It literally came out of the socket. Never seen that **** before. When trying to put it back in I broke more of the socket. This **** is brittle as hell. So Yeah man, you are absolutely right. I got curious and threw it on the test bench, put the chip back in it, you have to fiddle with where the retention bracket is supposed to be to get the holes on the socket to open up, but once the chip is mounted inside it still boots up, so at least the board still works, but yeah any resell value this board has is gone now (granted it probably had none to begin with, but still.)

So yeah, just wanted to let you know, I tested it and you are absolutely right. It does appear that the Sabertooth is using a much more durable plastic, so I am not sure if the same would happen in this case, but knowing that the Socket itself is usually manufactured at a third party distributor, there probably isn't more then a handful of choices to get these sockets from, lets hope that these Expensive x570 Board Makers are choosing a more Durable Socket option to purchase and incorporate in their designs...

That's pretty nuts it just happened to you too.. Same with mine, was able to get it to boot if I slid the socket back in place and then tightened the heatsink but I ended up just throwing the board in the garbage.. I think this issue goes mostly under the radar because most people only install the CPU once in the boards entire life and get rid of it afterwards (usually with the CPU still installed).

It doesn't mean AMD has to ditch PGA for LGA, but I would really like it if they came up with a new retention mechanism, preferably not made of cheap plastic.

Hopefully the socket doesn't run as hot on ryzen 3000 CPUs, but if the core temps are any indicator, it's quite possible I'll have the same issue down the line. Not sure if any change in material since AM3+ has been done, my new Aorus x570 looks the same to me.

Martin778 07-24-2019 07:37 PM

I myself pretty much prefer PGA, too many LGA boards with magically bent pins. The worst problem is that you pull the CPU together with the cooler sometimes.

S.M. 07-24-2019 07:46 PM

Ryzen 2 isn't always faster than a 9900K so I paid $550CAD for a 5960X.

1096bimu 07-26-2019 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buris (Post 28051864)
If you didn't have enough money to buy Ryzen 3000 just say it, but don't make up excuses trying to justify your purchase. X570 is superior to your current motherboard in every imaginable way, even in memory bandwidth, unless you specifically disable all the security patches. I also assure you my Aorus Master X570 has better VRM's than your motherboard, especially when you take into account the degradation of your board.

With that being said, you definitely got a deal.

So you think I have enough for TR3000 but not Ryzen 3000? No, I just don't like it.
Why would I need better VRMs on CPUs that use much less power?

X570 is superior in most technical ways but totally inferior in aesthetics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotForKids (Post 28052924)
You chose an outdated architecture with more and more security flaws appearing instead of a newer architecture that has room for improvement.

DDR4 pricing? Fine tune a memory overclock and you can purchase lower speed kits and push them for even more performance.

To be fair, you're thinking like a gamer, and acting like one. Hurr durr this benchmark, that benchmark. It's not like there is a difference in unzipping a compressed file on 5960x and Ryzen 3? Oh woops, real world usage =/= gamer.

The security flaws don't matter to home users a single bit, they're worrisome for attacks on other virtual machines running on the same computer.
RAM stick manufacturers bin their stuff, you can't just buy cheap ram, run a higher profile and have the same thing as more expensive RAM.
what? unzip? isn't that storage speed limited?

Serious_Don 07-26-2019 12:25 PM

121 Attachment(s)
Lots have people including me have come to defend your cost to performance buy. Now it's just getting silly to the point of trolling.

Itt we learn x99 is prettier than x570 and op has money... And that all ram is binned and your 3000 kits of bdie running over 4000 are in your imaginations.

LancerVI 07-26-2019 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair (Post 28047090)
I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.

Exactly. Pins are an ADVANTAGE. I was sad to see them go on Intel. Much easier to fix if there's a problem. Try fixing bent pins on an LGA array. Total Nightmare!!

1096bimu 07-26-2019 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious_Don (Post 28061156)
Lots have people including me have come to defend your cost to performance buy. Now it's just getting silly to the point of trolling.

Itt we learn x99 is prettier than x570 and op has money.

Dude, who ever said I got better RAM sticks than modern 4000 sticks?
What's wrong with you people constantly accusing me of saying things I never did?

WannaBeOCer 07-26-2019 12:39 PM

I just want to know why you have a water bottle sitting inside of your case?

LancerVI 07-26-2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28061174)
I just want to know why you have a water bottle sitting inside of your case?

LOL...... Indeed.

Serious_Don 07-26-2019 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28061154)
The security flaws don't matter to home users a single bit, they're worrisome for attacks on other virtual machines running on the same computer.
RAM stick manufacturers bin their stuff, you can't just buy cheap ram, run a higher profile and have the same thing as more expensive RAM.
what? unzip? isn't that storage speed limited?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28061170)
Dude, who ever said I got better RAM sticks than modern 4000 sticks?
What's wrong with you people constantly accusing me of saying things I never did?

I was quoting the bold portion of text from a comment you literally made within minutes of my post. Just about everybody building ryzen 3k systems right now buy lower rated b-die, hynix C, or micron E, and overclock them to 3600-3800 with tight timings to max out with a 1:1 IF clock. It would seem the only RAM that is actually getting binned are the super high speed 4000+ kits.

ozlay 07-26-2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrews2547 (Post 28052738)
OP got it for $550. A 2700X build (as listed there) is ~$325 more.

That says 750cad for what he got which is $550 USD. The 2700x is 875cad or 125cad more. Which is $100 usd. A 2700 non x is $100 USD cheaper then a 2700x so the same price.

Samurai707 07-26-2019 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notanymore (Post 28056926)
Do I care if I'm getting 100 fps (AMD) while gaming instead of 102 fps (intel)? Nope. And I'm smoking intel everywhere else...LOL! It's a no-brainer. A mere 2% hardly qualifies declaring intel as "better at gaming." And what do you want 150 fps for anyway when 60 fps is optimal?

60fps gaming zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

dagget3450 07-26-2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai707 (Post 28061386)
60fps gaming zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The post you quoted is relevant to this thread though.

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1096bimu (Post 28048444)
It's faster but not "much" faster by any means of the imagination.
To me "much faster" means 50% more single thread.

Also Ryzen 3000 is fast and low power but I don't think it's cool at all, it's just made from low grade reject server chips, where as the 5960x is a top quality, complete chip. Also there's nothing "advanced" about fans on chipsets. They can't even bother to make an effective heat sink because they want their boards to look like alien space ships.

And for the same price of $570 USD, I'd be looking at bottom end trash MB to go with the 3600. I would much rather prefer an ASUS ROG board.



Yes it would, but there are massive down sides to Zen 1 and Zen+ with inter-core latency. Also I never wanted any of the mainstream boards, Even if I choose AMD it will have to be threadripper, but then thread ripper has too many threads that I don't need.

Also I think you're underestimating Intel, the 5960x is a match for Zen+ not Zen1 considering the clock speed advantages.


Who's gonna run these old Intel chips at stock? They all had so much headroom.

AMD is for some reason ridiculously fast in Cinebench, but not so much in other things especially games. So I don't think 3600 is going to beat the 5960x in Cinebench MT.
The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me.

Yes I can absolutely sell these as well, but I think I'll use these to wait for next-gen. My old X79 has so many problems and quirks it takes like 5 minutes to boot up because the lack of UEFI, no NVME, and BIOS bugs that aren't getting fixed.



crazycrave 09-13-2019 08:42 PM

I still have a working e8400 on 775 / X58 x5660 /FX 6300 on AM3 / .. but there more collectors items now that I moved to Gen 3 Ryzen as with some fine tuning I hit 520 single tread and with Auto Boost . https://valid.x86.fr/bench/yhrtin/1


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