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-   -   [Notebook Check]AMD leaves the RX Vega 56, RX Vega 64 and Radeon VII out in the cold; claims it is listening (https://www.overclock.net/forum/379-rumors-unconfirmed-articles/1733354-notebook-check-amd-leaves-rx-vega-56-rx-vega-64-radeon-vii-out-cold-claims-listening.html)

dagget3450 09-16-2019 06:11 PM

[Notebook Check]AMD leaves the RX Vega 56, RX Vega 64 and Radeon VII out in the cold; claims it is listening
 
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-le....434869.0.html
Quote:

AMD has already brought its Radeon Image Sharpening (RIS) algorithm to its Polaris GPUs, but Vega architecture GPUs may miss the cut. Enough demand for RIS from owners of an RX Vega 56, RX Vega 64 or Radeon VII may sway the company, as may response from Navi and Polaris users. AMD is making no promises for the time being, but it is actively seeking feedback from the gaming community.
I guess AMD wants me to buy Nvidia now. Why would you exclude your flagship gpus from new features, yet add it to your low end ones? What the hell AMD

SoloCamo 09-16-2019 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28129762)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-le....434869.0.html


I guess AMD wants me to buy Nvidia now. Why would you exclude your flagship gpus from new features, yet add it to your low end ones? What the hell AMD

Pretty much how I feel on this. I went 7970Ghz > 290x > Vega 64 (Fury X wasn't worth it). This would be quite a slap in the face.

tpi2007 09-16-2019 08:18 PM

AMD making nonsense decisions yet again. What feedback are you waiting for AMD? Consumer feedback or telemetry in this day and age where every little thing is apparently ripe for being slurped from consumers' habits should never be a substitute for a cohesive strategy and short, mid and long term support practices of your products that lead to this rather diffuse but ultimately decisively important concept called mindshare.

This shouldn't even be a question you should be asking. Implement it already. Seriously, the thought of the Radeon VII, technically still your flagship card that is not even a year old, not getting RIS being under consideration is utterly baffling.

rluker5 09-16-2019 09:57 PM

I sure would like to use RIS with my Fury Nitro along with Trixx boost on the living room 4k tv, but AMD would probably want to sell me a newer card instead.
Where do you draw the line if RIS works with all GCN? No line?
It's probably a sales based decision.

Kepler couldn't do much more than one type of thing at a time. Maxwell couldn't keep up with Pascal's clocks, Turing has all of these available int operations waiting to be used, not counting its other cores. Vega still has too many tflops and is still too versatile to be obviated on a hardware basis by Navi. Maybe there will be software advantages to the current selling cards.

huzzug 09-16-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28129842)
AMD making nonsense decisions yet again. What feedback are you waiting for AMD? Consumer feedback or telemetry in this day and age where every little thing is apparently ripe for being slurped from consumers' habits should never be a substitute for a cohesive strategy and short, mid and long term support practices of your products that lead to this rather diffuse but ultimately decisively important concept called mindshare.

This shouldn't even be a question you should be asking. Implement it already. Seriously, the thought of the Radeon VII, technically still your flagship card that is not even a year old, not getting RIS being under consideration is utterly baffling.

It's a stratergy to keep the current status quo between the only 2 viable options for discreet graphic cards in consumer space. Why would they want to fight for a few mil more than they make now while also risking all of theire revenue when shaking hands under the table gets them a secured 30% stream from the market pie.

geoxile 09-16-2019 10:01 PM

They probably shouldn't make specialty flagships anymore if they're really just going to drop support like that.

rdr09 09-16-2019 11:33 PM

Current NAVI is next in line when Big NAVI comes out. I agree with the sentiments here.

Defoler 09-16-2019 11:37 PM

VII owners basically got screwed over completely.
Within less than 6 months the card became barely supported, almost ignored by AMD, as if it doesn't even exist and they never released it.
And then people tell me only nvidia are doing shady business and AMD are all about the consumer. Sheesh.
I'm just happy I use the VII for compute and not gaming.

WannaBeOCer 09-17-2019 12:13 AM

311 Attachment(s)
I'd rather they bring back core overclocking for the Radeon VII than implement RIS.

Malinkadink 09-17-2019 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defoler (Post 28129984)
VII owners basically got screwed over completely.
Within less than 6 months the card became barely supported, almost ignored by AMD, as if it doesn't even exist and they never released it.
And then people tell me only nvidia are doing shady business and AMD are all about the consumer. Sheesh.
I'm just happy I use the VII for compute and not gaming.

Is this at all surprising though? The moment the VII was shown i knew it was a stop gap that would be quickly surpassed by mid range navi. I've been on a 1080 for what feels like forever and am still waiting for AMD to release something to rival the 2080 Ti as i see that card as my only real upgrade but im not paying $1200 for one. The 2080 is also sad as its just a 1080Ti with ray tracing. I definitely did not see it coming that this generation would be the first where the x70 card didn't beat the previous generation Ti in this case the 1080Ti, as i was hopeful to get 2070 for <$500 that would exceed the 1080Ti by 10% or so.

JackCY 09-17-2019 03:34 AM

AMD... the worst graphics software so far. What's next, each effect as paid DLC? Random effects in lootboxes?
I like some of their hardware, it's good tech but they always manage to taint or ruin it somehow with their lack software support or lack of adoption of their new features, or outright not launching promised new features in software/driver even when they exist in hardware.

Just install ReShade and port their code better rather than to rely on AMD's whims.

Vega VII was a fired/retired director I think it was or someone quite high up, was trying to push a last minute response to Turing, just to have something launched that "competes", so they repurposed a compute card meant for servers etc. and sold a few units to in retail to regular people. The support for it was never gonna last a product they had a fight around internally for sure, was a loss etc.

AMD doesn't compete with Nvidia, they cooperate, they will not gain any mindshare by doing so.

maltamonk 09-17-2019 03:35 AM

Meh......source is from reddit tagged as rumors there yet makes news here. It's speculation at this point that it won't be brought to 56,64, and vii.

tpi2007 09-17-2019 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28130144)
Meh......source is from reddit tagged as rumors there yet makes news here. It's speculation at this point that it won't be brought to 56,64, and vii.


The source in the OP mentions PCGamesN as the source via PC Games Hardware (translated link here) and Reddit. When you go to PCGamesN, the source is their direct question to AMD (see quote below). Reddit's source is PC Games Hardware. And PC Games Hardware's source is PCGamesN.

Quote:

“AMD will gauge end user reception and demand for Radeon Image Sharpening,” says AMD in response to our questions about future Vega support, “and will consider adding support for additional Radeon RX graphics cards in the future.”

Bold for emphasis.

TL;DR: The source is PCGamesN, and they asked AMD directly. This is not a rumour.

ToTheSun! 09-17-2019 05:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28130206)
TL;DR: The source is PCGamesN, and they asked AMD directly.

   

maltamonk 09-17-2019 05:56 AM

Quote:

For owners of appropriate graphics cards that is annoying. However, AMD does not want to exclude the addition of Radeon Image Sharpening for Vega graphics cards. At the request of pcgamesn.com it was stated that this is dependent on the final reception and demand of the current users of the feature. Accordingly, it is considered to provide "additional Radeon RX graphics cards" in the future with support.
It says while it's not available now it may be in the future. That is neither a no or a yes. So stating that it's a no in the future is a rumor. It's a typical type of answer that covers both angles. Somehow we always are glass half empty or glass half full, instead of leaving it just what it is...half. Further owners have the ability to fill the glass.

dagget3450 09-17-2019 06:22 AM

Why would they have a poll for feedback on what to add?

https://www.feedback.amd.com/se/5A1E27D203B57D32

The fact polaris/navi got RIS and Vega hasn't "YET" supports this so far...

Maybe they will add it in 2025 or next century, or never. Either way vega has been left out NOW, why?


Nvidia released RTX, end eventually enabled for all older gpus. It was pointless but they did it.

This is currently like Nvidia dropping RTX(or DLSS) off the 2080ti because they just didn't sell that many.

maltamonk 09-17-2019 06:28 AM

The "why" is easy. It's obvious that newer cards would have it...ie...Navi. Polaris has the numbers over Vega by far. They are supporting the numbers.

ToTheSun! 09-17-2019 06:39 AM

mfw nVidia cards got RIS before AMD cards did

tpi2007 09-17-2019 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28130238)
It says while it's not available now it may be in the future. That is neither a no or a yes. So stating that it's a no in the future is a rumor. It's a typical type of answer that covers both angles. Somehow we always are glass half empty or glass half full, instead of leaving it just what it is...half. Further owners have the ability to fill the glass.


That would be all well and good if you hadn't missed the part in the article's title that says that they are listening [for feedback]. At the end of the day facts are facts though, they decided to not roll out support for it at the same time that they decided to roll out for Polaris. That is a decision that they made. Can it be reverted in the future? Obviously.

PontiacGTX 09-17-2019 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28130006)
I'd rather they bring back core overclocking for the Radeon VII than implement RIS.

lol I mean this is less relevent comparing the marketshare of Vega combined vs the Radeon VII i doubt this would have higher priority but this is assuming AMD doesnt have an agenda to sell the latest, which in ths case is false then maybe a Radeon VII might get the overclocking first if enough people complains

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28130260)
Why would they have a poll for feedback on what to add?

https://www.feedback.amd.com/se/5A1E27D203B57D32

The fact polaris/navi got RIS and Vega hasn't "YET" supports this so far...

Maybe they will add it in 2025 or next century, or never. Either way vega has been left out NOW, why?


Nvidia released RTX, end eventually enabled for all older gpus. It was pointless but they did it.


This is currently like Nvidia dropping RTX(or DLSS) off the 2080ti because they just didn't sell that many.



have a good public image among their customers that at AMD they listen them?

between the software exclusivity and late releases of AMD (and unfulfilled promises) and the nvidia strategy to sell the customers what it is the currently competitive but not the best yet available makes one lose interest in new products, specially since they arent reasonably priced anymore, hey now midrange is 450+ (550+ on nvidia)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28130278)
That would be all well and good if you hadn't missed the part in the article's title that says that they are listening [for feedback]. At the end of the day facts are facts though, they decided to not roll out support for it at the same time that they decided to roll out for Polaris. That is a decision that they made. Can it be reverted in the future? Obviously.

Integer scaling was on the poll and they didnt even announce the development of integer scaling, then one will believe them that they are listening to our requests?

maltamonk 09-17-2019 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28130278)
That would be all well and good if you hadn't missed the part in the article's title that says that they are listening [for feedback]. At the end of the day facts are facts though, they decided to not roll out support for it at the same time that they decided to roll out for Polaris. That is a decision that they made. Can it be reverted in the future? Obviously.

I didn't miss that. I said it in the post. "They have the option to fill the glass".

tpi2007 09-17-2019 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28130316)
I didn't miss that. I said it in the post. "They have the option to fill the glass".


I was referring to the part in bold below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28130238)
It says while it's not available now it may be in the future. That is neither a no or a yes. So stating that it's a no in the future is a rumor. It's a typical type of answer that covers both angles. Somehow we always are glass half empty or glass half full, instead of leaving it just what it is...half. Further owners have the ability to fill the glass.


Redwoodz 09-17-2019 04:02 PM

:jerry:

maltamonk 09-17-2019 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28130792)
I was referring to the part in bold below:

How does "they are listening for feedback" = no future ris for vega? (future being the key word)

tpi2007 09-17-2019 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28131030)
How does "they are listening for feedback" = no future ris for vega? (future being the key word)


Exactly. The article didn't say what you said. And especially, doesn't support your claim that the article is based on a rumour, that was the main point in all this discussion. This thread is very well placed in the main news section.

Ashura 09-17-2019 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28131116)
Exactly. The article didn't say what you said. And especially, doesn't support your claim that the article is based on a rumour, that was the main point in all this discussion. This thread is very well placed in the main news section.

I believe what he's suggesting is the claim that AMD 'will not' add RIS to Vega is a rumor, as we don't know if they will or will not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk (Post 28130266)
The "why" is easy. It's obvious that newer cards would have it...ie...Navi. Polaris has the numbers over Vega by far. They are supporting the numbers.


Seems like it. I mean they've added it to rx470.

maltamonk 09-17-2019 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashura (Post 28131180)
I believe what he's suggesting is the claim that AMD 'will not' add RIS to Vega is a rumor, as we don't know if they will or will not.





Seems like it. I mean they've added it to rx470.

Yes, that is correct.

pioneerisloud 09-17-2019 09:15 PM

Moved to rumors, this is the source of all the news on the subject that I could find:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/vega-ra...age-sharpening

Sounds to me like somebody sent AMD an email and they got an automated response back is all that happened here. :rolleyes:

ILoveHighDPI 09-17-2019 10:32 PM

I guess I’m mildly annoyed, but I generally don’t like scaling resolutions no matter how good your AA is.

I mostly just want Big Navi ASAP so that we can forget the last three years of GPU history.

EastCoast 09-18-2019 07:16 AM

On AMD's Reddit they want you to vote on it.

https://www.feedback.amd.com/se/5A1E...df3c_326939553

ILoveHighDPI 09-18-2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoast (Post 28131614)
On AMD's Reddit they want you to vote on it.

https://www.feedback.amd.com/se/5A1E...df3c_326939553

As of now Integer Scaling and Image Sharpening have a substantial lead.

I actually want to try Integer Scaling for modern games rendered at 4K and upscaled to 8K.
Of course Checkerboarding is far preferred as a near functional equivalent to higher resolutions at much greater efficiency than native rendering, but Integer Scaling could still let me use higher hardware pixel density to solve some of the issues with raw native 4K while maintaining sharpness, unlike most Anti-Aliasing methods used today.

criminal 09-20-2019 07:29 AM

Nvidia rumor = Fact
AMD Rumor = They didn't mean what they said.

maltamonk 09-20-2019 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by criminal (Post 28134048)
Nvidia rumor = Fact
AMD Rumor = They didn't mean what they said.

It's more of a "Any PC company says something neutral, the community assumes either a positive or a negative and runs with it, then screams at the top of their lungs when their assumption is not accurate". Not to mention the whole red/green camp nonsense that infects rational.

dagget3450 09-20-2019 12:06 PM

I don't get the defense of AMD on this one. They have released RIS for polaris but not vega. They skipped vega that simple. Did they say why they did it that way? Is the debate over "sometime" vs "never"? Really?

What is the rumor here? AMD having a response or lack thereof?

PontiacGTX 09-20-2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28134354)
I don't get the defense of AMD on this one. They have released RIS for polaris but not vega. They skipped vega that simple. Did they say why they did it that way? Is the debate over "sometime" vs "never"? Really?

What is the rumor here? AMD having a response or lack thereof?

someone clearly said they werent going to release it at the moment which is the same as the article implies

WannaBeOCer 09-20-2019 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI (Post 28131736)
As of now Integer Scaling and Image Sharpening have a substantial lead.

I actually want to try Integer Scaling for modern games rendered at 4K and upscaled to 8K.
Of course Checkerboarding is far preferred as a near functional equivalent to higher resolutions at much greater efficiency than native rendering, but Integer Scaling could still let me use higher hardware pixel density to solve some of the issues with raw native 4K while maintaining sharpness, unlike most Anti-Aliasing methods used today.

The last two surveys they did integer scaling won both of them. Instead of adding the support or say they are working on it they now add it again on this 3rd survey. I don't understand the purpose of these surveys if they aren't going to add features users vote on in the first place.

Edit: Integer scaling has been on their survey for quite some time now: https://community.amd.com/thread/238377

Why can't they be more like Intel's graphics team who listen when consumers want something?

https://www.techpowerup.com/256801/i...raphics-lineup

PontiacGTX 09-20-2019 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28134402)
The last two surveys they did integer scaling won both of them. Instead of adding the support or say they are working on it they now add it again on this 3rd survey. I don't understand the purpose of these surveys if they aren't going to add features users vote on in the first place.

Edit: Integer scaling has been on their survey for quite some time now: https://community.amd.com/thread/238377

Why can't they be more like Intel's graphics team who listen when consumers want something?

https://www.techpowerup.com/256801/i...raphics-lineup

Intel and Nvidia, sometimes this makes me believe they brought up the lack of image sharpening on Vega to forget entirely of integer scaling, just releasing the (API ) RIS port for Vega and avoid to release integer scaling for longer

Defoler 09-21-2019 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28134354)
I don't get the defense of AMD on this one. They have released RIS for polaris but not vega. They skipped vega that simple. Did they say why they did it that way? Is the debate over "sometime" vs "never"? Really?

What is the rumor here? AMD having a response or lack thereof?

It isn't a rumour.
Though AMD could kill your puppy and people here will try to defend AMD for doing it.

The fact that they decided to completely skip vega, and claim "we will listen" is basically their way of brushing it under the rug. If in a few months someone will ask them if they listened, they can just say "the community wasn't interested", and there you go, no need to to do. Problem solved.
As long as there is no backlash over it (because AMD fans will be willing to look the other way), they aren't going to do it.

tpi2007 09-21-2019 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagget3450 (Post 28134354)
I don't get the defense of AMD on this one. They have released RIS for polaris but not vega. They skipped vega that simple. Did they say why they did it that way? Is the debate over "sometime" vs "never"? Really?

What is the rumor here? AMD having a response or lack thereof?


I honestly don't understand it either. This is 100% not a rumour and it defies all logic to consider it as such. The title of the article is accurate and so is its content and so is the original source PCGamesN, if we are to believe their direct quote from AMD's response (see below), which at this point we should, it's been 8 days, if it were false AMD would have said so already.

Quote:

“AMD will gauge end user reception and demand for Radeon Image Sharpening,” says AMD in response to our questions about future Vega support, “and will consider adding support for additional Radeon RX graphics cards in the future.”

Fact 1: AMD releases RIS for Navi. Ok, new lineup, new feature, maybe it will be backported to other archs, maybe it's technically possible (without a substantial performance hit, that is), maybe it's not, but for now, fine.

Fact 2: AMD decides to backport RIS to Polaris, leaving people who actually paid more money for their Vega 56, 64 and VII out in the cold. Paint AMD's inner wants and plans however you want to, but it's a fact. Maybe in the future there will be support, but the title of the article is quite accurate, Vega owners as of right now are left out in the cold, they can't use the feature that older arch Polaris users can.

UltraMega 09-22-2019 10:01 PM

I think if AMD ever gets back into the consumer GPU market, it will be after PS5 is released. AMD currently has it's eggs in the next gen console basket and they probably have no reason to help the PC gaming market right now since they stand to gain from future console sales all the more if people are running out of good options for GPUs on PC.

PontiacGTX 09-23-2019 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraMega (Post 28136544)
I think if AMD ever gets back into the consumer GPU market, it will be after PS5 is released. AMD currently has it's eggs in the next gen console basket and they probably have no reason to help the PC gaming market right now since they stand to gain from future console sales all the more if people are running out of good options for GPUs on PC.

AMD returned with Navi, I dont see where is the console using navi yet? unless you mean that they stopped supporting Vega for being focused in Consoles, more like they want to sell what they currently have in the market, Navi and Polaris, btw AMD should kill polaris once for all this refresh/rehash of the SAME architecture during 3 years is becoming ridiculous

ZealotKi11er 09-23-2019 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpi2007 (Post 28135558)
I honestly don't understand it either. This is 100% not a rumour and it defies all logic to consider it as such. The title of the article is accurate and so is its content and so is the original source PCGamesN, if we are to believe their direct quote from AMD's response (see below), which at this point we should, it's been 8 days, if it were false AMD would have said so already.




Fact 1: AMD releases RIS for Navi. Ok, new lineup, new feature, maybe it will be backported to other archs, maybe it's technically possible (without a substantial performance hit, that is), maybe it's not, but for now, fine.

Fact 2: AMD decides to backport RIS to Polaris, leaving people who actually paid more money for their Vega 56, 64 and VII out in the cold. Paint AMD's inner wants and plans however you want to, but it's a fact. Maybe in the future there will be support, but the title of the article is quite accurate, Vega owners as of right now are left out in the cold, they can't use the feature that older arch Polaris users can.

Vega and Polaris are very different. Different GFX Core and different memory.

WannaBeOCer 09-23-2019 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28136966)
Vega and Polaris are very different. Different GFX Core and different memory.

What's your point? nVidia's FreeStyle supports their GPUs all the way back until Fermi on release date. AMD's current survey they're asking if they should expand Radeon Image Sharpening support for products or APIs. It's not a hardware limitation but they're seeing if there is a enough demand to warrant supporting their older hardware. Hopefully with driver version 20 they just go back and support all GCN based cards.

https://us.download.nvidia.com/Windo...ease-notes.pdf

CoD511 09-23-2019 10:56 AM

Disappointing but expected pretty much I guess. I sure hope no one kids themselves that AMD cares more about the consumer than Nvidia.

tpi2007 09-23-2019 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28136966)
Vega and Polaris are very different. Different GFX Core and different memory.


And what should we logically conclude from what you're saying? Navi and Polaris are also very different.

girugamesh 09-23-2019 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD511 (Post 28137028)
Disappointing but expected pretty much I guess. I sure hope no one kids themselves that AMD cares more about the consumer than Nvidia.

In practical terms, they aren't a cancer like nVidia, so there's that.

UltraMega 09-23-2019 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28136856)
AMD returned with Navi, I dont see where is the console using navi yet? unless you mean that they stopped supporting Vega for being focused in Consoles, more like they want to sell what they currently have in the market, Navi and Polaris, btw AMD should kill polaris once for all this refresh/rehash of the SAME architecture during 3 years is becoming ridiculous

I mean that its hard to look at AMD and think they have been serious about the desktop GPU market at all in the last few years, and that is probably due to their shifted focus onto consoles.

PontiacGTX 09-24-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraMega (Post 28137278)
I mean that its hard to look at AMD and think they have been serious about the desktop GPU market at all in the last few years, and that is probably due to their shifted focus onto consoles.

if you own a Vega 64 ot 1080Ti yes it is hard to look at them, but I mean Vega was somewhat focused on desktop, more for professional applications (compute bound) but then it was just a high end gaming video card, they had something to offer, but maybe it wasnt enough for some ,those who went with a 1080ti, but I believe AMD is trying to do the same they did on 2016 with Polaris, bring the former"high end" performance for a "budget" market, sadly AMD offer was too expensive compared to 2nd hand Vega or too slow compared to brand new Turing or even open box Turing

Jarhead 09-24-2019 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malinkadink (Post 28130024)
Is this at all surprising though? The moment the VII was shown i knew it was a stop gap that would be quickly surpassed by mid range navi. I've been on a 1080 for what feels like forever and am still waiting for AMD to release something to rival the 2080 Ti as i see that card as my only real upgrade but im not paying $1200 for one. The 2080 is also sad as its just a 1080Ti with ray tracing. I definitely did not see it coming that this generation would be the first where the x70 card didn't beat the previous generation Ti in this case the 1080Ti, as i was hopeful to get 2070 for <$500 that would exceed the 1080Ti by 10% or so.

Personally, I'm waiting until middle to end of next year when there are good 32in-43in 4K display options before picking a 4K gpu because the two really aren't there yet. For now 5700XT and LG 32in 1440p refurb seem like they will do fine.

Defoler 09-25-2019 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoD511 (Post 28137028)
I sure hope no one kids themselves that AMD cares more about the consumer than Nvidia.

This is OCN. Some here will eat excrement if it was labaled with AMD logo on it.

Want an example?

Quote:

Originally Posted by girugamesh (Post 28137264)
In practical terms, they aren't a cancer like nVidia, so there's that.




Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28137858)
if you own a Vega 64 ot 1080Ti yes it is hard to look at them, but I mean Vega was somewhat focused on desktop, more for professional applications (compute bound) but then it was just a high end gaming video card, they had something to offer, but maybe it wasnt enough for some ,those who went with a 1080ti, but I believe AMD is trying to do the same they did on 2016 with Polaris, bring the former"high end" performance for a "budget" market, sadly AMD offer was too expensive compared to 2nd hand Vega or too slow compared to brand new Turing or even open box Turing

Vega was designed by Raja as AMD's answer to nvidia's high end (both desktop and workstation).
Those cards were suppose to bring both high gaming performance and compute performance, in order keep a market in the high end, and take market from nvidia in the desktop market, allowing professionals to buy cheaper vega cards (like the frontier etc) and still gain all the performance.

But it completely failed. It was a mediocre high cost GPU that couldn't compete nvidia's high end, and it didn't have the driver support to really take the workstation market from nvidia in any meaningful way.
This is also why Raja left AMD. They basically threw vega under the bus trying to push more resources into navi, because navi was more important to them as it was their planned main source of GPU income as the next gen consoles performance heart. Raja created vega for the future, but AMD screwed that up which is why it is now out of support basically.

criminal 09-25-2019 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girugamesh (Post 28137264)
In practical terms, they aren't a cancer like nVidia, so there's that.

Elaborate please? And please use examples that are unique to Nvidia.

I have had an Nvidia card for many, many generations now. Neither my computer or myself have gotten cancer. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defoler (Post 28138816)
This is OCN. Some here will eat excrement if it was labaled with AMD logo on it.

QFT

PontiacGTX 09-25-2019 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by criminal (Post 28138882)
Elaborate please? And please use examples that are unique to Nvidia.


Gameworks... affected nvidia itself
Physx was practically an unnecesary expense
Increasing the midrange to almost 500usd,
Disabling Anti lag (render frames ehead) until AMD released anti lag
Denying low level apis was benefitial for gaming performance (with Mantle which preceded Vulkan)
spying on their consumers activity (in game) for their 'study'
Crippling kepler performance during almost 2 years

yeah but I mean this doesnt change the fact AMD has done things equally bad sometimes (recently)

bigjdubb 09-25-2019 01:07 PM

Well I have already relegated my VII to htpc duty so it really doesn't matter to me if they implement this feature, but it still kinda pisses me off that an RXpotato gets the feature and my VII doesn't.

girugamesh 09-25-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by criminal (Post 28138882)
Elaborate please? And please use examples that are unique to Nvidia.

I have had an Nvidia card for many, many generations now. Neither my computer or myself have gotten cancer. :p

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28138898)
Gameworks... affected nvidia itself
Physx was practically an unnecesary expense
Increasing the midrange to almost 500usd,
Disabling Anti lag (render frames ehead) until AMD released anti lag
Denying low level apis was benefitial for gaming performance (with Mantle which preceded Vulkan)
spying on their consumers activity (in game) for their 'study'
Crippling kepler performance during almost 2 years

yeah but I mean this doesnt change the fact AMD has done things equally bad sometimes (recently)

This, thanks.

Although I disagree AMD has been equally bad. They have been crappy sometimes, but not corrosive to the industry like nVidia, nowhere close.

In fact, AMD has worked on GPUOpen (which is OPEN) against GimpWorks.
FreeSync (open) against GSync.
Relive doesn't require a "cloud account" like Shadowplay. I don't use this stuff, but it's worth mentioning as a matter of principle, because such behavior should not be tolerated, I think. It's not a slippery slope. Even Razer mouses (which are a bad choice for other reasons) require or used to require an online account to change the mouse settings, this sort of subservient relationship is abominable, so yes I'll boycott it.
nVidia's CUDA has become a vicious circle (like any proprietary tech) that traps developers which traps customers. It'll be better if OpenCL thrives.

Also, Vulkan (developed from Mantle) also helps against another cancer that is DirectX.

rluker5 09-25-2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28138898)
Gameworks... affected nvidia itself
Physx was practically an unnecesary expense
Increasing the midrange to almost 500usd,
Disabling Anti lag (render frames ehead) until AMD released anti lag
Denying low level apis was benefitial for gaming performance (with Mantle which preceded Vulkan)
spying on their consumers activity (in game) for their 'study'
Crippling kepler performance during almost 2 years

yeah but I mean this doesnt change the fact AMD has done things equally bad sometimes (recently)

If Nvidia had worked with Gearbox to update Physx to use the additional resources available today, the jump in visuals (from using Kepler (Borderlands2) to Turing(Borderlands3)) would make you poot your pants. Or they could have had object/motion dependent fog at no expense to the main gpu if you had some old midrange one you could toss in. The biggest problem with physx is that it isn't used more. It was always optional so don't be jealous.

And since Kepler is unable to do async compute on a hardware basis, and AMD sponsored titles and consoles pushed that into use in games (got prevalent about 2016), it is really AMD that gimped Kepler. Nvidia is still supporting this relic of the past just fine.

And the only AMD exceptions to Nvidia's pricing scale I've seen are due to oversupply from a mining bust, reference cards with defective cooling, and Polaris. AMD is a slightly better buy, but if they thought too much was being charged they could charge less on their website.

Defoler 09-25-2019 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28138898)
Gameworks... affected nvidia itself
Physx was practically an unnecesary expense
Increasing the midrange to almost 500usd,
Disabling Anti lag (render frames ehead) until AMD released anti lag
Denying low level apis was benefitial for gaming performance (with Mantle which preceded Vulkan)
spying on their consumers activity (in game) for their 'study'
Crippling kepler performance during almost 2 years

yeah but I mean this doesnt change the fact AMD has done things equally bad sometimes (recently)

The first 2 are features that nvidia gives as extra to nvidia owners. Why is it bad? AMD has tressfx, mental, and more features that were locked to AMD. So why AMD is ok to create private features but nvidia not?
Midrange was increased by AMD as well. Up until the 7000 series AMD matched nvidia's price one to one. The only time that price difference was increased, is later as their performance started to slag, and they were forced to reduce prices.
Nvidia had low level API, nvapi, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Developers with the push from MS, pushed for DX over low level API.
And spying? Like AMD weren't doing that? Yeah.
Kepler performance was not crippled. It performed as expected.

Excrement. With AMD logo on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by girugamesh (Post 28139362)
This, thanks.

Although I disagree AMD has been equally bad. They have been crappy sometimes, but not corrosive to the industry like nVidia, nowhere close.

In fact, AMD has worked on GPUOpen (which is OPEN) against GimpWorks.
FreeSync (open) against GSync.
Relive doesn't require a "cloud account" like Shadowplay. I don't use this stuff, but it's worth mentioning as a matter of principle, because such behavior should not be tolerated, I think. It's not a slippery slope. Even Razer mouses (which are a bad choice for other reasons) require or used to require an online account to change the mouse settings, this sort of subservient relationship is abominable, so yes I'll boycott it.
nVidia's CUDA has become a vicious circle (like any proprietary tech) that traps developers which traps customers. It'll be better if OpenCL thrives.

Also, Vulkan (developed from Mantle) also helps against another cancer that is DirectX.

AMD only worked with opengpu, because their personal libraries (like tressfx, which were NOT open like AMD kept claiming), failed to enter the market outside of one game franchise, which developed tressfx for AMD in the first place. Opengpu is a library mostly not written by AMD, but sponsored by AMD, which is also very rarely used because it was so optimised for AMD, that changing it to work well on nvidia became way too complicated.
Freesync was also "stolen" from eDP. And it is not a better solution than gsync.
And cloud account, no one is forcing you to use it. There are many free tools to do the same (some of which AMD used to give the same functionality).
And nvidia cuda had a lot of functionality that opencl doesn't. To add functionality to opencl required nvidia to jump through hoops getting other companies which develop opencl standards to support, which was never easy. Without cuda to push boundries, you might not have similar functionality in opencl. Most of the time in the last decade AMD have been reacting to nvidia technology push.

And vulkan, considering its current use, hadn't made any big change so far or forced anything so far on the industry. And we still see very little benefit to use DX12 over DX11 even.
Consoles are still the dominating force in DX/opengl/vulkan usage, and DX is still winning because of it.

WannaBeOCer 09-26-2019 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girugamesh (Post 28139362)
This, thanks.

Although I disagree AMD has been equally bad. They have been crappy sometimes, but not corrosive to the industry like nVidia, nowhere close.

In fact, AMD has worked on GPUOpen (which is OPEN) against GimpWorks.
FreeSync (open) against GSync.
Relive doesn't require a "cloud account" like Shadowplay. I don't use this stuff, but it's worth mentioning as a matter of principle, because such behavior should not be tolerated, I think. It's not a slippery slope. Even Razer mouses (which are a bad choice for other reasons) require or used to require an online account to change the mouse settings, this sort of subservient relationship is abominable, so yes I'll boycott it.
nVidia's CUDA has become a vicious circle (like any proprietary tech) that traps developers which traps customers. It'll be better if OpenCL thrives.

Also, Vulkan (developed from Mantle) also helps against another cancer that is DirectX.

Most of the things you named were invented by nVidia and copied by other companies a year or more later. The difference is that nVidia creates markets while others enter them.

flash2021 09-26-2019 08:30 AM

I went from cross-fired 7970's to a Vega64 this year (finally, I know)....don't slap me in the face! :(

PontiacGTX 09-26-2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flash2021 (Post 28140128)
I went from cross-fired 7970's to a Vega64 this year (finally, I know)....don't slap me in the face! :(

buy a RX 5700 while you can sell your vega 64 at similar price as you bought it, of course.. if you want to do compute then keep it it is faster

pioneerisloud 09-26-2019 08:23 PM

Thread cleaned, let's please keep on topic.

CorpussStalker 09-27-2019 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28140248)
buy a RX 5700 while you can sell your vega 64 at similar price as you bought it, of course.. if you want to do compute then keep it it is faster

The marginal increase isnt worth it if you ask mem Vega 64 owner here
Even with the XT I dont think its a viable option either really, well where im from anyway, I bought the Vega 64 for €220, the XT is nearly €500 lol

SoloCamo 09-27-2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorpussStalker (Post 28141718)
The marginal increase isnt worth it if you ask mem Vega 64 owner here
Even with the XT I dont think its a viable option either really, well where im from anyway, I bought the Vega 64 for €220, the XT is nearly €500 lol

Yup. 5700 vs V64 oc to oc the V64 is faster anyways. Against the 5700xt (oc to oc), yea it's a few percent slower but not worth upgrading to.

PontiacGTX 09-28-2019 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorpussStalker (Post 28141718)
The marginal increase isnt worth it if you ask mem Vega 64 owner here
Even with the XT I dont think its a viable option either really, well where im from anyway, I bought the Vega 64 for €220, the XT is nearly €500 lol

wait until the Fiji treatment

ZealotKi11er 09-28-2019 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoloCamo (Post 28141826)
Yup. 5700 vs V64 oc to oc the V64 is faster anyways. Against the 5700xt (oc to oc), yea it's a few percent slower but not worth upgrading to.

No GPU is ever going to be worth it if you compare new release with older GPU which has been price reduced. Was V64 worth it at $500+?

WannaBeOCer 09-28-2019 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28142458)
No GPU is ever going to be worth it if you compare new release with older GPU which has been price reduced. Was V64 worth it at $500+?

Yes, because I couldn't find any GPUs that were in stock except for the $1200 Titan Xp.

PontiacGTX 09-29-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28130006)
I'd rather they bring back core overclocking for the Radeon VII than implement RIS.

I would bring HBCC to FIJI but you know AMD doesnt care about really low volume models

WannaBeOCer 09-29-2019 09:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28143370)
I would bring HBCC to FIJI but you know AMD doesnt care about really low volume models

That's going to be difficult considering Fiji doesn't have a HBCC. Unless you want them to release a new Fiji card in 2019 with a HBCC?

SoloCamo 09-29-2019 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PontiacGTX (Post 28143370)
I would bring HBCC to FIJI but you know AMD doesnt care about really low volume models

The real question is, does HBCC even do anything worthwhile?

PontiacGTX 09-29-2019 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoloCamo (Post 28143774)
The real question is, does HBCC even do anything worthwhile?

for 4GB would totally do, you know the reason Fiji underperforms? 4GB and bad geometry at least the 4GB issue will lessen in some titles performance improves up to 10% with HBCC, due to games do caching probably sharing a single pool saves a bit of latency?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28143372)
That's going to be difficult considering Fiji doesn't have a HBCC. Unless you want them to release a new Fiji card in 2019 with a HBCC?

I mean the image shows the controller but what I mean is doing a similar concept using the system ram shared with vram to lessen the performance impact I mean they were talking about it on Fiji's release

treetops422 09-30-2019 05:42 AM

Anyone with any video card can use RIS ported into Reshade thanks to open source. The official version does not even support dx11 yet. But you can use it with Reshade etc etc on dx11.



WannaBeOCer 09-30-2019 12:38 PM

They added support with 19.9.3, they just needed to be called out for not supporting their highest end GPU.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/re...rad-win-19-9-3

rluker5 09-30-2019 03:00 PM

What! No Fury support? That's outrageous!

jk Fury is old.

WannaBeOCer 09-30-2019 04:20 PM

316 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rluker5 (Post 28144616)
What! No Fury support? That's outrageous!

jk Fury is old.

That is outrageous, nVidia's freestyle when it was released supported all their cards that could install the driver which included Fermi at that time. No reason why RIS wouldn't support the HD 7000 series.

All their GPUs under Product Compatibility should have RIS support.

ZealotKi11er 09-30-2019 08:00 PM

This thread did not age well.

Drake87 09-30-2019 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28144678)
That is outrageous, nVidia's freestyle when it was released supported all their cards that could install the driver which included Fermi at that time. No reason why RIS wouldn't support the HD 7000 series.

All their GPUs under Product Compatibility should have RIS support.

Nvidia's resources dwarf the AMD graphics division. Probably just a matter of dedicating the manpower to more important areas.

rluker5 09-30-2019 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28144678)
That is outrageous, nVidia's freestyle when it was released supported all their cards that could install the driver which included Fermi at that time. No reason why RIS wouldn't support the HD 7000 series.

All their GPUs under Product Compatibility should have RIS support.

I would call it cheap and underhanded especially since it may have taken more work to deny RIS to some gpus rather than leave it as a togglable software option for all. But outrageous is a little strong. I'm still happier with a Fury than a 780ti even if the 780ti still had full software support. The Fury Nitro is cooler and quieter than the DC2 780ti as well.
The removal of sli support from the midrange bothers me more tbh, and the disappearance of crossfire as long as I'm on that subject. That's like the opposite of what was supposed to happen with Navi. A pair of reasonably powered 5700s would be a great combo for cfx. Over pcie4 with infinity fabric protocol it would be at least as good as before.

Cherryblue 10-01-2019 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28144678)
All their GPUs under Product Compatibility should have RIS support.

I'm a R9 390X user, and while I would love to have RIS, I do not resent them since it was not made available nor suggested when buying this card 3 years ago.

In fact, you should consider it an excellent present or exceptionnal effort from the company to bring you new functionnality without you buying anything else from them.

Heck, I'm currenctly considering buying a new card because I went from 2560x1080 to 3440x1440, and having RIS clearly would mean delaying my order a lot; so from their perspective, I clearly understand why they do not, and they are right to, since it would reduce their business and their money to invest in newer technology.

WannaBeOCer 10-01-2019 07:17 AM

316 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherryblue (Post 28145170)
I'm a R9 390X user, and while I would love to have RIS, I do not resent them since it was not made available nor suggested when buying this card 3 years ago.

In fact, you should consider it an excellent present or exceptionnal effort from the company to bring you new functionnality without you buying anything else from them.

Heck, I'm currenctly considering buying a new card because I went from 2560x1080 to 3440x1440, and having RIS clearly would mean delaying my order a lot; so from their perspective, I clearly understand why they do not, and they are right to, since it would reduce their business and their money to invest in newer technology.

I'm thankful for the community that gets things working when companies are being cheap. They kept it a Navi exclusive feature for sales. I didn't care if they added a toggle because I've been using reshade. You can too

https://www.overclock.net/forum/67-a...topics/1729260

dagget3450 10-01-2019 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherryblue (Post 28145170)
I'm a R9 390X user, and while I would love to have RIS, I do not resent them since it was not made available nor suggested when buying this card 3 years ago.

In fact, you should consider it an excellent present or exceptionnal effort from the company to bring you new functionnality without you buying anything else from them.

Heck, I'm currenctly considering buying a new card because I went from 2560x1080 to 3440x1440, and having RIS clearly would mean delaying my order a lot; so from their perspective, I clearly understand why they do not, and they are right to, since it would reduce their business and their money to invest in newer technology.

While Hawaii/Grenada has been a long living example, its kind of missing the point of the complaint. They added RIS to Polaris but not Vega. We are talking mid-low end vs flagship. While it is nice of them to add older gpu's. They are choosing a segment over another based on whatever metric they chose. The issue becomes what can you expect from AMD when you purchase flagship. Given the fact they pick and choose what to implement based on prodding from the customer does not look good for supporting flagship.

diggiddi 10-01-2019 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28144906)
This thread did not age well.

lol

WannaBeOCer 10-01-2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28144906)
This thread did not age well.

This thread was definitely one of the reasons why AMD released support for Vega. Probably the same reason they dropped the RX 5700 series price right before launch also.

maltamonk 10-03-2019 08:00 AM

Well this is awkward.......

dj_tokyu 10-03-2019 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer (Post 28145742)
This thread was definitely one of the reasons why AMD released support for Vega. Probably the same reason they dropped the RX 5700 series price right before launch also.

I think you give OC forums too much credit...

PontiacGTX 10-03-2019 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er (Post 28144906)
This thread did not age well.

Neither did fiji now you see, also the poll didnt age well I think they even ignore the results coming from that poll, who cares if you have a feature with more votes , if people whines about something they get pressured to release a an effortless API port instead releasing at once for all cards, where is the advantage of buying Navi now?


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