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-   -   Are LP Coolers even worth compared to the Wraith Prism? (https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooling/1748386-lp-coolers-even-worth-compared-wraith-prism.html)

gerikoh 05-23-2020 02:55 AM

Are LP Coolers even worth compared to the Wraith Prism?
 
Been a while since i built a full fledged, Desktop rig for gaming. (Got sick of gaming in a laptop that are meant for editing)

And while I’m just preparing to go all in for a 16-core Ryzen 4th Gen as soon as it drops, I’m preparing to acquire rest of the components, and the last one is the CPU Cooler. (Just got the Wraith Prism for now).

I’ve done some heavy research and the top ones that keeps on coming up, no taller than 100mm are the Noctua NH-L12S, NH-L9, Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP. And just based on the physics alone, I’m doubtful that they’re better than the AMD Prism. I surely hate having to waste $100 just to find out they’re no better than the Prism.

Insights would be much appreciated.


Update:
So now, thanks to you guys, I have it narrowed down on which case to buy:
-Silverstone RVZ03 -14.6L -80mm (really inclined on this case)
-Silverstone RVZ01 -14L -83mm

So now, I basically want to have the best performing air cooler for the RVZ03. And if you guys could even recommend me a smaller case that can fit a 13" card, and has a clearance of 80mm for the cooler, then that would be the best thing ever!

The Pook 05-23-2020 09:13 AM

Scythe Big Shuriken 3.

gerikoh 05-23-2020 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pook (Post 28465668)
Scythe Big Shuriken 3.

I've looked at that one as well. It seems to be around the same performance as the Noctuas :(

Which I don't mind. But I would really want to know if these would have at least 3-5c improvement over the Wraith Prism.

Dogzilla07 05-24-2020 02:48 AM

Phanteks PH-TC12LS is a good option as well,

However for most performance I'd say Scythe Big Shuriken 3 with a proper 25mm width fan, or Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP-200 Muscle (if you can fit the Cryorig and Thermalright due to their other measurements (depth,length,VRM clearance) and also both with proper 25mm width fans).

With the performance being in AXP-200 > C1 > Shuriken 3.

doyll 05-24-2020 07:24 AM

First thing to do is make sure your case is flowing air like it should so cooler is getting air less than 5c warmer than room. Many case do not have good airflow and cooler are often trying to cool with air 10c, 15c, sometimes even 20c warmer than room when gaming ro doing other heave load applications. As there almost exactly a 1:1 ratio between increases in air temp enter cooler to CPU temp at same fan speed and load, a 15c warmer warmer than room means CPU is 10c hotter than if air entering cooler is only 5c warmer than room. In all of my builds air entering coolers is less than 3c warmer than room air. ;)
You might find below link to basic guide to airflow and how to optimize case airflow helpful.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

gerikoh 05-24-2020 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogzilla07 (Post 28466556)
Phanteks PH-TC12LS is a good option as well,

However for most performance I'd say Scythe Big Shuriken 3 with a proper 25mm width fan, or Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP-200 Muscle (if you can fit the Cryorig and Thermalright due to their other measurements (depth,length,VRM clearance) and also both with proper 25mm width fans).

With the performance being in AXP-200 > C1 > Shuriken 3.

I think these are exactly the coolers that I'm after. That Thermalright and Cryorig seems to be in a different level. It's a bit expensive but I have no doubt it will give me more than 5c compared to the prism. I'll replace it with one of the extra 140x25mm Magnetic Corsair fans. Thanks man!

Quote:

Originally Posted by doyll (Post 28466838)
First thing to do is make sure your case is flowing air like it should so cooler is getting air less than 5c warmer than room. Many case do not have good airflow and cooler are often trying to cool with air 10c, 15c, sometimes even 20c warmer than room when gaming ro doing other heave load applications. As there almost exactly a 1:1 ratio between increases in air temp enter cooler to CPU temp at same fan speed and load, a 15c warmer warmer than room means CPU is 10c hotter than if air entering cooler is only 5c warmer than room. In all of my builds air entering coolers is less than 3c warmer than room air. ;)
You might find below link to basic guide to airflow and how to optimize case airflow helpful.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

My current case is just being slotted between the shelves of at the top portion my computer table, with just a mesh cover, so it pretty much is close to being an open air case. And my AC is pointed at it as well. xD

My ask is how much better will these LP coolers be compared to the Wraith Prism though :p

doyll 05-25-2020 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerikoh (Post 28467398)
My current case is just being slotted between the shelves of at the top portion my computer table, with just a mesh cover, so it pretty much is close to being an open air case. And my AC is pointed at it as well. xD

My ask is how much better will these LP coolers be compared to the Wraith Prism though :p

That mesh is undoubtedly restricting airflow by 30%, maybe much more. Is back of shelf open? Can you give us an idea of how big intake area and exhaust area are?
By "LP coolers do you mean flat coolers with fan pushing air toward motherboard? If so, they run hotter than tower coolers because they do not keep heated exhaust away from cool intake air entering cooler. Instead they dump air in all directions (down through cooler hitting mobo, turning out hitting GPU/RAM, turning up along side of cooler and fan where fan draws heated air back into cooler. Even on open bench test station with a 140mm fan mounted 10cm above motherboard flowing air over it the air entering flat cooler ran 6-9c warmer than when fan was turned over pulling air out of cooler. Is there a vent in your case above CPU socket?

gerikoh 05-25-2020 04:57 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by doyll (Post 28468138)
That mesh is undoubtedly restricting airflow by 30%, maybe much more. Is back of shelf open? Can you give us an idea of how big intake area and exhaust area are?
By "LP coolers do you mean flat coolers with fan pushing air toward motherboard? If so, they run hotter than tower coolers because they do not keep heated exhaust away from cool intake air entering cooler. Instead they dump air in all directions (down through cooler hitting mobo, turning out hitting GPU/RAM, turning up along side of cooler and fan where fan draws heated air back into cooler. Even on open bench test station with a 140mm fan mounted 10cm above motherboard flowing air over it the air entering flat cooler ran 6-9c warmer than when fan was turned over pulling air out of cooler. Is there a vent in your case above CPU socket?

Here you go. Those are 2 Corsair ML 140mm fans.
Yup, I'm thinking about just opening the back. Clearance is about 150mm, but I need a good amount of space on top of the CPU cooler so it will be able to pull air, hence I'm going for coolers no taller than 100mm, 120mm tops.

That means there's just no way I'm getting a tower cooler. And I just don't like all that heaviness and bulk that a full tower cooler brings especially those high end ones that stresses the motherboard a lot. Also, there's just no way I'm able to fit that kind of cooler inside a SFF case when I decide to. I'd rather go on a full blown water cooler setup if that's the case.

doyll 05-25-2020 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerikoh (Post 28468170)
Here you go. Those are 2 Corsair ML 140mm fans.
Yup, I'm thinking about just opening the back. Clearance is about 150mm, but I need a good amount of space on top of the CPU cooler so it will be able to pull air, hence I'm going for coolers no taller than 100mm, 120mm tops.

That means there's just no way I'm getting a tower cooler. And I just don't like all that heaviness and bulk that a full tower cooler brings especially those high end ones that stresses the motherboard a lot. Also, there's just no way I'm able to fit that kind of cooler inside a SFF case when I decide to. I'd rather go on a full blown water cooler setup if that's the case.

You can do whatever you want, but reality is even biggest heaviest coolers DO NOT DAMAGE MOTHERBOARDS!!!
If you are going to worry, worry about fans not having at least 1/3rd their diameter in clearance to draw air into or out of (obviously side mounted on cooler does not apply.
The key to good cooling is intake air is not warming up on it's way to component/coolers. To do this the heated air coming off of cooler/components needs to move out of case without mixing with intake air. GPUs are a nightmare because they dump heated exhaust air in all directions other then fan side and PCB side. Downflow / LP coolers have the same problem.

With your system flowing air from front to back it only makes sense to have a cooler that flows the same .. meaning not using downflow / LP cooler. Distance from surface of motherboard to side is 8mm more than maximum cooler height.

For example Scythe Mugen 5 is very good and stands 154.5mm tall, as is Fuma 2. Older Scythe Fuma is 149mm tall. Both are top tier coolers. Alpenfohn Brocken ECO is 150mm tall with 4x heatpipes.

It would be easier to help if we had links to sites you can buy from. That way we suggest coolers we know you can get.

gerikoh 05-25-2020 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doyll (Post 28468482)
You can do whatever you want, but reality is even biggest heaviest coolers DO NOT DAMAGE MOTHERBOARDS!!!
If you are going to worry, worry about fans not having at least 1/3rd their diameter in clearance to draw air into or out of (obviously side mounted on cooler does not apply.
The key to good cooling is intake air is not warming up on it's way to component/coolers. To do this the heated air coming off of cooler/components needs to move out of case without mixing with intake air. GPUs are a nightmare because they dump heated exhaust air in all directions other then fan side and PCB side. Downflow / LP coolers have the same problem.

With your system flowing air from front to back it only makes sense to have a cooler that flows the same .. meaning not using downflow / LP cooler. Distance from surface of motherboard to side is 8mm more than maximum cooler height.

For example Scythe Mugen 5 is very good and stands 154.5mm tall, as is Fuma 2. Older Scythe Fuma is 149mm tall. Both are top tier coolers. Alpenfohn Brocken ECO is 150mm tall with 4x heatpipes.

It would be easier to help if we had links to sites you can buy from. That way we suggest coolers we know you can get.

Hmm The 150mm will also be including the motherboard, its stand, and the CPU. Any tower cooler with 120mm will still not fit I'm afraid. And it just doesn't make any sense anymore if I went with those that have 92mm fans.

Also, I've had a Thermalright Arrow way back before and that thing took out my motherboard in less than a year. :(

Given the current airflow, I fully agree with you on how ideal the push-pull tower setup will be. But there's just no way I'll go with that based on how I intend this build to be as I'll never put this in a full-sized ATX case, or even those thick ITX ones. The idea is to be able to fit in an SFF case in the future to fit into a backpack. :D


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