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post #3371 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:33 AM
 
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ASRock X570 Taichi uses 12[6*2]+2[1*2] Phases, SiC634 DrMos, ISL69147(6+1) with ISL6617 doublers, T-Topology memory layout.

However, at ASRock's website https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%2...%20X/index.asp, in the pic "60A choke"(attached below), it shows that X570 Phantom Gaming X uses SiC654 powerstage, which does have OCP&OTP features, while SiC634 does not. So Taichi's VRM is a downgrade of Phantom Gaming X this time?
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#1 AMD Ryzen 7 [email protected] / Asrock X370 Taichi / Dual 420rad Custom Loop / G.Skill [email protected] / iChiLL GTX 1080 X4 / Seasonic X-650
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Last edited by sotheray; 06-18-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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post #3372 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:58 AM
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Seems to be, that the gaming x is a bit "better" in terms of VRm and overall quality

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post #3373 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 01:13 AM
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Just in case it was missed (I haven't seen the video posted in here), here's what might be one of the best ITX X570 VRM?

"The little VRM that could.. destroy your 2700X"

(VRM efficiency talk starts around 7:15)


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post #3374 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sotheray View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUtvsAmD3Ws

ASRock X570 Taichi uses 12[6*2]+2[1*2] Phases, SiC634 DrMos, ISL69147(6+1) with ISL6617 doublers, T-Topology memory layout.

However, at ASRock's website https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%2...%20X/index.asp, in the pic "60A choke"(attached below), it shows that X570 Phantom Gaming X uses SiC654 powerstage, which does have OCP&OTP features, while SiC634 does not. So Taichi's VRM is a downgrade of Phantom Gaming X this time?
Wouldn't obsess over it, but do know that in the latest Z390 boards such as Phantom Gaming 7 they've been using SiC634. The ISL6617 provides current balancing so it basically down to the OTP. OTP is likely handled by an external temperature sensor. (See https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/9...ew/index3.html)

I don't understand the obsession with memory layout when the Taichi is listing DDR4 4666+(OC) / 4400(OC) / 4300(OC) / 4266(OC) / 4200(OC) / 4133(OC) / 3466(OC). Even with T-topology Taichi was hitting 3533MHz on X370/X470 : AMD's slides show 3200Mhz C14 and 3600C16 both provided 69ns memory latency for Ryzen 3rd gen and it's 100% certain that it can hit 3200C14.

Anyhow, since it's using ISL6617 doublers + 50A DrMos I'm interested in their pricing structure: to price it north of ~$250-300 is very unlikely. The ~$200 Aorus Elite is using the same layout more or less, so most of the upgrades on the Taichi this time around are minor compared to say the ~$180 ASUS TUF Plus (no doublers). You do get a heatpipe , debug code LED, power/reset , wifi 6 + BT, FP 12K capacitors, ALC1220 audio + amp, backplate (not sure if thermal), etc.


------


Speaking of buildzoid's overviews apparently the received the Gigabyte Gaming X and it's actually 10 phases with 2 low side fets per phase (not 5 phases doubled low side) so it's much less of a dumpster fire. Do note that the 2nd low side fet is on the back of the board so it isn't great.

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Last edited by AlphaC; 06-18-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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post #3375 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 09:57 AM
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
Wouldn't obsess over it, but do know that in the latest Z390 boards such as Phantom Gaming 7 they've been using SiC634. The ISL6617 provides current balancing so it basically down to the OTP. OTP is likely handled by an external temperature sensor. (See https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/9...ew/index3.html)

I don't understand the obsession with memory layout when the Taichi is listing DDR4 4666+(OC) / 4400(OC) / 4300(OC) / 4266(OC) / 4200(OC) / 4133(OC) / 3466(OC). Even with T-topology Taichi was hitting 3533MHz on X370/X470 : AMD's slides show 3200Mhz C14 and 3600C16 both provided 69ns memory latency for Ryzen 3rd gen and it's 100% certain that it can hit 3200C14.

Anyhow, since it's using ISL6617 doublers + 50A DrMos I'm interested on their pricing structure: to price it north of ~$250-300 is very unlikely. The ~$200 Aorus Elite is using the same layout more or less, so most of the upgrades on the Taichi this time around are minor compared to say the ~$180 ASUS TUF Plus (no doublers). You do get a heatpipe , debug code LED, power/reset , backplate (not sure if thermal), etc.
ASRock use multi-kind MosFETs on a single board model before(see Z370 extreme4, also some low-end X370/B350/X470/B450 boards), so who knows.

T-Topology is much better for 4 dimms at very high frequency, Gigabyte Z390 Master can achieve 4533 @4*8g but it can hardly exceed 4200 with 2 dimms. Its QVL: [email protected]*8, [email protected]*8. So QVL is not everything, especially for 2 dimms on a t-topo board.

Also, it seems that the IF frequency has far more than two options (1:1/2:1). So with 3733+ memory frequency may not always mean high latency, if we can maintain IF frequency at a high level.
See https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?m...9&pid=42412821. Toppc is a MSI engineer who broke DDR4 frequency record at Computex2019.
\\English Translation:
\\Actually it's not a "ratio" adjustment. You may understand more if you think it as a RING adjustment.
\\Of course RING adjustment is the silicon lottery.
\\No one is curious why SOC has four phases?
\\(X570 Godlike, Buildzoid also mentioned this)

#1 AMD Ryzen 7 [email protected] / Asrock X370 Taichi / Dual 420rad Custom Loop / G.Skill [email protected] / iChiLL GTX 1080 X4 / Seasonic X-650
#2 Intel Core [email protected] / Msi Z370I GAMING PRO CARBON AC / Thermalright Silver Arrow T6 / GALAX HOF II DDR4-3600 8G*[email protected] / XFX Rx Vega 56 / EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3
#3 AMD Ryzen 5 2600X / ASUS ROG STRIX B350-I GAMING / Thermalright TA 120 / HyperX Predator RGB HX432C16PB3AK2/[email protected] / ASUS ROG Strix RTX 2060 / Seasonic FOCUS 550 GOLD FC

Last edited by sotheray; 06-18-2019 at 10:02 AM.
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post #3376 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:04 AM
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
Wouldn't obsess over it, but do know that in the latest Z390 boards such as Phantom Gaming 7 they've been using SiC634. The ISL6617 provides current balancing so it basically down to the OTP. OTP is likely handled by an external temperature sensor. (See https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/9...ew/index3.html)

I don't understand the obsession with memory layout when the Taichi is listing DDR4 4666+(OC) / 4400(OC) / 4300(OC) / 4266(OC) / 4200(OC) / 4133(OC) / 3466(OC). Even with T-topology Taichi was hitting 3533MHz on X370/X470 : AMD's slides show 3200Mhz C14 and 3600C16 both provided 69ns memory latency for Ryzen 3rd gen and it's 100% certain that it can hit 3200C14.

Anyhow, since it's using ISL6617 doublers + 50A DrMos I'm interested in their pricing structure: to price it north of ~$250-300 is very unlikely. The ~$200 Aorus Elite is using the same layout more or less, so most of the upgrades on the Taichi this time around are minor compared to say the ~$180 ASUS TUF Plus (no doublers). You do get a heatpipe , debug code LED, power/reset , wifi 6 + BT, FP 12K capacitors, ALC1220 audio + amp, backplate (not sure if thermal), etc.


------


Speaking of buildzoid's overviews apparently the received the Gigabyte Gaming X and it's actually 10 phases with 2 low side fets per phase (not 5 phases doubled low side) so it's much less of a dumpster fire. Do note that the 2nd low side fet is on the back of the board so it isn't great.
TUF's VRM is a four phase with ASP1106GGQW, rather than 6 with ASP1405I. Three SiC639 per phase. That really sucks

#1 AMD Ryzen 7 [email protected] / Asrock X370 Taichi / Dual 420rad Custom Loop / G.Skill [email protected] / iChiLL GTX 1080 X4 / Seasonic X-650
#2 Intel Core [email protected] / Msi Z370I GAMING PRO CARBON AC / Thermalright Silver Arrow T6 / GALAX HOF II DDR4-3600 8G*[email protected] / XFX Rx Vega 56 / EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3
#3 AMD Ryzen 5 2600X / ASUS ROG STRIX B350-I GAMING / Thermalright TA 120 / HyperX Predator RGB HX432C16PB3AK2/[email protected] / ASUS ROG Strix RTX 2060 / Seasonic FOCUS 550 GOLD FC
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post #3377 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:31 AM
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ASP1106GGQW is highly likely to be capable of 6+2

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post #3378 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 10:44 AM
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
ASP1106GGQW is highly likely to be capable of 6+2
ASP1106GGQW is likely to be a RT8877C, which is a 4+2 controller
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...l#post25427010

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#3 AMD Ryzen 5 2600X / ASUS ROG STRIX B350-I GAMING / Thermalright TA 120 / HyperX Predator RGB HX432C16PB3AK2/[email protected] / ASUS ROG Strix RTX 2060 / Seasonic FOCUS 550 GOLD FC
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post #3379 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 11:12 AM
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I just can't see them putting 3 powerstages on 1 phase, would be surprised if it is. Would be 3 powerstages in parallel. Since drivers are integrated into each powerstage it might make for a messy setup. Maybe it's 3 phases doubled to 6 and then parallel to 12 (obviously inferior to the Aorus Elite and Taichi solutions but with total powerstages equal) or 3 quadrupled.

The reason why I think it's capable of driving 6 is because ASUS originally had 6 phases on their RX 570 with ASP1300 + IR3598 (doubled to 6): https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...gb,5028-2.html

^ Igor is from tomshw.de now since he split off from US Tomshardware completely to make Igor's Lab at tomshw.de
Also greentech reviews: https://greentechreviews.ru/2017/06/...570-gaming-oc/ , https://greentechreviews.ru/2015/07/...r9-390x-strix/

ASP1300 is also present on RX 480 strix using IR3555 powerstages so it's likely an IR PWM : https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...up,4962-6.html


It was substituted out from the 2016 rendition with that ASP1106:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...trix-oc/5.html


ASP1106 on their FM2 board in 3+2 configuration: https://overclockers.ru/lab/show/521...y_ASUS_F2A55-M

ASP1300 is supposedly IR PWM of some sort so they're likely interchangeable with modifications such as doublers.




--------------------


Also Gigabyte's entry level X570 Gaming X page is up finally:
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherbo...NG-X-rev-10#kf
"10 phase * Doubled from 5 phases with current balancing."
Extended heatsink , but might have 2nd low side fet on rear of board


Zero USB 3.1 gen 2 , so probably a bad idea

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Last edited by AlphaC; 06-18-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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post #3380 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I just can't see them putting 3 powerstages on 1 phase, would be surprised if it is. Would be 3 powerstages in parallel. Since drivers are integrated into each powerstage it might make for a messy setup. Maybe it's 3 phases doubled to 6 and then parallel to 12 (obviously inferior to the Aorus Elite and Taichi solutions but with total powerstages equal) or 3 quadrupled.

The reason why I think it's capable of driving 6 is because ASUS originally had 6 phases on their RX 570 with ASP1300 + IR3598 (doubled to 6): https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...gb,5028-2.html

^ Igor is from tomshw.de now since he split off from US Tomshardware completely to make Igor's Lab at tomshw.de
Also greentech reviews: https://greentechreviews.ru/2017/06/...570-gaming-oc/ , https://greentechreviews.ru/2015/07/...r9-390x-strix/

ASP1300 is also present on RX 480 strix using IR3555 powerstages so it's likely an IR PWM : https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...up,4962-6.html


It was substituted out from the 2016 rendition with that ASP1106:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...trix-oc/5.html


ASP1106 on their FM2 board in 3+2 configuration: https://overclockers.ru/lab/show/521...y_ASUS_F2A55-M

ASP1300 is supposedly IR PWM of some sort so they're likely interchangeable with modifications such as doublers.




--------------------


Also Gigabyte's entry level X570 Gaming X page is up finally:
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherbo...NG-X-rev-10#kf
"10 phase * Doubled from 5 phases with current balancing."
Extended heatsink , but might have 2nd low side fet on rear of board


Zero USB 3.1 gen 2 , so probably a bad idea
Seems that there is no doubler on the TUF X570, so it is likely to be 3-DrMOS-parallel.
https://nguyencongpc.vn/danh-gia-bo-...570-plus-wifi/

I don't think it is a problem to put 3 driver in parallel. ASRock Z370 Taichi put 2 driver IC in parallel in a single phase, directly linked to the controller. ASUS "twin" design uses IR powerstages which also have driver integrated. I think put 2 or 3 drivers together and directly link to the controller will behave similar essentially, so there won't be a problem.

#1 AMD Ryzen 7 [email protected] / Asrock X370 Taichi / Dual 420rad Custom Loop / G.Skill [email protected] / iChiLL GTX 1080 X4 / Seasonic X-650
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