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post #8521 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 09:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
I am so STOKED! I get to FINALLY expand my EKWB Phoenix 360 MLC tomorrow with a New Pump and adding a Rad to the Loop. I can't fit any more hardware in the Old Ass Retro Case I rock, so am Setting up a Rad and Pump Station just next to the System on a Shelf I built for it. Will be a little Ghetto, but Should finally, hopefully, get my 3900x under Control under Heavy Load. At least thats the idea, we will see what happens once I add these new components to the loop. I am trying to get away with not Lapping the Block and IHS, mainly because I am planning on selling the 3900x when the 3950 Launches, and don't want the fact that I sanded the AMD Etching off the IHS to be a problem. Regardless, this is going to be a fun project! The List of parts I purchased are below.

Also, I guess no one cares about the Memory Latency Calculations I have posted twice now, I thought it was interesting stuff... Oh well.

Spoiler!
I did see it thanks man - I have something similar from days before calculator - I just had a read and kind of take your experience on-board - we all have such different experiences and different calculations. It helps to give me ideas I might not of thought of. So thanks for useful post - the more information we share the better things get for alll of us...

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post #8522 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
So you monitor Voltage with the "CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN)" or "CPU Core Voltage" under the ASUS WMI Tab in HWinfo, Then you can gauge how bad your Vdroop is by seeing what your Reported CPUv is before putting the CPU under heavy load, and then seeing what the CPUv drops to Under Load. Don't use RM to monitor Voltage, all RM reports is VID, and that is not Accurate at all. Use HWinfo to monitor the Actual CPUv, and again vdroop is just the Loss of Voltage while under load. Hope that helps.

LLC is used to compensate for this Vdroop by pushing the Voltage up while under load, the problem with using too much LLC to compensate is that the higher the LLC the Higher the Voltage Overshoots when a load is finished. Unfortunately HWinfo does not report fast enough to be able to see the Overshoot, so you will never see it unless you put a high end Voltage Meter or Oscilloscope on the board, then you will see the higher the LLC the Higher Your Vcore will spike when leaving a heavy load, this has the potential to hurt your chip over time. However if you have great cooling you should still be ok, its just something to keep in mind. This is why generally most people recommend never going higher then the Second Highest LLC. I live on the dangerous side so I tend to use LLC Level 5 when trying to find how much Voltage is needed for a given Clock, and then will usually back off the LLC after and then just increase the Voltage by about 10 to 20mv, and call it a day.

Yes figured it out. LLC5 or Auto didn't show any vdroop so remained the same. Once i changed LLC vdroop appeared in HwInfo. LLC4 has ~0.019v droop and LLC3 has ~0.031v.



Is it possible LLC5/Auto give more constant voltage than the manual vcore set in bios. I mean if i set 1.325v in bios and LLC5/Auto don't show any vdroop, does it go above 1.325v under load or will never exceed 1.325v? (not talking about overshoot but constant voltage under load)


I guess 1.35 with LLC5 is not safe as Stilt has said 1.325v under max load should be safe?


Edit: Running at all stock settings and even increasing PPT/EDC/TDC in RM, the max vcore under load is 1.3v. Never went above that. Stilt recommended 1.325v. Now my happiness with awesome oc @ 1.35v is gone. Could it be risky?

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post #8523 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 11:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Did anyone happen to see my Memory Latency, Bandwidth, and Timings Calculation post? I posted it the other day and I don't think anyone noticed it. I thought it was super interesing. Posted again below.

Spoiler!

3733 at CL14 seems really good then (7.5ns). Max Bandwidth of 59728 Mb/s. 97.89% read and 97.25% write for me.

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post #8524 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 01:17 AM
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Hi - I have a 3700X on my CH7, I'm running an all core overclock of 4.3Ghz with a fixed voltage of 1.375 and LLC at level 5, cooling is via a BeQuiet SilentLoop 240mm AIO, temps rarely reach 75c under stress testing. Memory is a 16GB 3200 Samsung B-Die kit running at 3600 14-15-15-15-30 (66.7ns latency). I'd like some advice if possible, I have trawled through a lot of posts but have not been able to find what I'm looking for.

I'm a bit confused about the LLC issue with many people saying that level 5 is dangerous and should not be used long term whereas Buildzoid posted a lengthy video where he confirmed that the only way to counteract VDROOP at the socket is through increasing the LLC and he went as far as to say that Level 5 is what should be used. Is his testing flawed, has anyone else actually tested LLC on the board and documented that they have evidenced voltage spikes? I'm perfectly happy to accept that on lesser quality boards the voltage may not be as controlled but as I understand it the CH7 is pretty well specced out in this regard.



"According to FIT, the safe voltage levels for the silicon are around 1.325V in high-current loads and up to 1.47V in low-current loads (i.e ST)" (https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...ot-really.html) I'm assuming that "high current loads" are usages like sustained video / 3D rendering and stress testing, and that a gaming rig with some very occasional video rendering would fall somewhere between the 1.325V and 1.47V so 1.375V should be OK for 24/7 use? I appreciate it depends on the silicone lottery so a definitive answer is not possible but generally would people agree with my assumption?

I am currently running BIOS 2501, I see that the only feature of 2606 Asus list is "Update overclocking auto-rules for Ryzen 3000 CPUs." which is of no use to me as I run a manual overclock, is there any point in me updating to this version. I would like additional memory / cpu stability so I can try to eke out a bit more performance but from what I can see 2606 does not help in this regard !?!

Thanks in advance.
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post #8525 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 02:18 AM
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It's my sister's birthday today - we're taking her out for lunch...

Is it bad that I just wanna stay home and play overclocking with my C7H and 3900X?

....I am of course I am going lol.... but you know when you've got those nagging thoughts like 'oh! I didn't try that, I must do it now'? If I were to do that 1 test now I'd end up doing 50 tests!

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post #8526 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 03:35 AM
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which temp is more reliable?
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post #8527 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 03:45 AM
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well ...2602 ...had no more cold boot issues ...but now with 2606 it's back . Did anyone else have this experience ? Using a 3600 with b-die ram
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post #8528 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 03:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToguroSR View Post
well ...2602 ...had no more cold boot issues ...but now with 2606 it's back . Did anyone else have this experience ? Using a 3600 with b-die ram
Not yet. No more C5 or hiccups booting with my RAM. Fingers crossed

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post #8529 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 05:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Synoxia View Post
which temp is more reliable?
Tdie in Hwinfo is the most reliable. AMD Switched to an Average Temp, so while it gives you a good overview of your Average temp, it is not realtime data, like HWinfo tdie is.

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post #8530 of 9867 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 05:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by crakej View Post
I did see it thanks man - I have something similar from days before calculator - I just had a read and kind of take your experience on-board - we all have such different experiences and different calculations. It helps to give me ideas I might not of thought of. So thanks for useful post - the more information we share the better things get for alll of us...

I passed out in front of computer while doing OCing. 5.30am and I need my bed!
Appreciate you brother! Sometimes I get to sensitive, lol!

Quote: Originally Posted by thegr8anand View Post
Yes figured it out. LLC5 or Auto didn't show any vdroop so remained the same. Once i changed LLC vdroop appeared in HwInfo. LLC4 has ~0.019v droop and LLC3 has ~0.031v.



Is it possible LLC5/Auto give more constant voltage than the manual vcore set in bios. I mean if i set 1.325v in bios and LLC5/Auto don't show any vdroop, does it go above 1.325v under load or will never exceed 1.325v? (not talking about overshoot but constant voltage under load)


I guess 1.35 with LLC5 is not safe as Stilt has said 1.325v under max load should be safe?


Edit: Running at all stock settings and even increasing PPT/EDC/TDC in RM, the max vcore under load is 1.3v. Never went above that. Stilt recommended 1.325v. Now my happiness with awesome oc @ 1.35v is gone. Could it be risky?
The amount of LLC doesn't change between Manual Voltage and Auto Voltage. Your LLC level will still apply just the same amount when using Auto of Offset Voltage. Regarding the Voltage you are using, until we get into subambient overclocking, the Voltage you use is fine, as LONG AS you can keep the chip cool. So I wouldn't worry about using 1.35v as your daily driver, as long as your Temps don't meet or exceed 95c, and hopefully stay at least 10c below that at all times. If so then you are fine at your desired Voltage level.

Quote: Originally Posted by thegr8anand View Post
3733 at CL14 seems really good then (7.5ns). Max Bandwidth of 59728 Mb/s. 97.89% read and 97.25% write for me.
I agree, that does look like the sweet spot. As my original post with this said though, we also have to tak into consideration the speed of the infinity fabric, which this equation does not, so just because we get a low Latency with this equation, does not neccesarily mean we will get a lower latency overall, because the higher you crank to IF, the better your Latency gets, but with that said it does look like 3733 is the sweet spot if you can get CL14 with good Primary and Tertiary timings.

Quote: Originally Posted by crakej View Post
It's my sister's birthday today - we're taking her out for lunch...

Is it bad that I just wanna stay home and play overclocking with my C7H and 3900X?

....I am of course I am going lol.... but you know when you've got those nagging thoughts like 'oh! I didn't try that, I must do it now'? If I were to do that 1 test now I'd end up doing 50 tests!
LOL! This is the Daily struggle my friend! I am my own boss, so this kind of thing comes into play constantly when scheduling jobs, and more so when its personal outings. Is it bad I just prefer to stay in my room, in the air conditioning and tweak my PC, instead of go outside into the cruel world, and be bored for 3 hours????

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