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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been chosen by a customer to build a computer for him. He has about a $2000 budget and it will be for solidworks & mastercam. They rely heavily on the cpu with solidworks relying heavily on single core while mastercam seems to use all cores.

Recently they started doing a very complex part and the rebuild on mastercam was taking forever. It was taking an 8600k @ 5ghz straight to 100% all cores for hours to do all operations. I upgraded him over the weekend to a 10850k which has helped a good bit.

With this customer having a higher budget albeit $2000 does include monitors, im just wondering what the best route would be. Another 10850k, a 11700k which sacrifices multi, or completely throw in the towel and wait for 12th. I'm just wondering if 12th will be a huge upgrade like 7700k to 8700k, or if it will be a waste like 6700k to 7700k.

Any input on what you all would do?
 

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Is AMD a consideration?
 

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Well, if single core is more important than anything else - the 11 series is your bet to build right now.

If core count it more important, 10850K.

You should not wait until 12 series launch, you're likely to run into compatibility issues and/or early adoption issues with DDR5/new IC design/etc.

FWIW~
 

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Actually i am seriously debating going back to Alderlake. I'm about done with my 5950x, x570 Hero Dark lol. Getting tired of playing around with Auto OC and combination of playing around with voltage and lowest temperatures and that leading to system instability. Planning to unload my 5950x/x570 Hero Dark and 32GB DDR4-4000 for 500-1000Cad. It's more an 2022 project though as i need Optimus to come out with LGA1700 Block first.

Super low price but that's only because I got the HK government 10K cash handout to spend in HK (sitting in my bank account) whenever i go to visit. Going to buy Alderlake there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, if single core is more important than anything else - the 11 series is your bet to build right now.

If core count it more important, 10850K.

You should not wait until 12 series launch, you're likely to run into compatibility issues and/or early adoption issues with DDR5/new IC design/etc.

FWIW~
Forgot about that. It would definitely be a buy on release type deal. My biggest thing is how can I ignore the $320 microcenter 10850k lol
 

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if you don't need it now then the best option is always to wait. if you can wait, then wait.

if you do need now, then the 10850K isn't a bad route for the price. Just hope you have a good cooler and/or get one that isn't a silicon lottery loser. Mine is pretty unimpressive.
 

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Alder Lake will have 20% higher IPC than Rocket Lake, but DDR5 will be very expensive, should be available towards end of october.

i would rather buy an 11700K, it has stronger iGPU, it has AVX 512 which is AFAIK supported by Solidworks.

and it has PCIe 4.0 and better I/O & bandwidth, which is also good for Solidworks.
 

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Alder Lake will have 20% higher IPC than Rocket Lake, but DDR5 will be very expensive, should be available towards end of october.

i would rather buy an 11700K, it has stronger iGPU, it has AVX 512 which is AFAIK supported by Solidworks.

and it has PCIe 4.0 and better I/O & bandwidth, which is also good for Solidworks.
Yup. In my case, I have free cash that can only spent in Hong Kong ( i can transfer it but converting to local currency means loss of value) so i can live with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think my issue is the multi is more noticeable on those rebuilds than single is. I mean single is gonna be a long process no matter what but the muiti thing they are doing is more frustrating for them. That's why I'm so on the fence since the 10850k is so cheap and has better multi than any 11th gen at all. It just seems like a no brainer to me but I wanted to know what the rest of you thought.

The problems would be very problematic so trying a brand new 12th gen might be a bad idea.

The 10850k works fine with the Assassin cooler and some pl1/pl2 limits with a pl1 cap of 165 and a few seconds pl2 200w. It's not so much the fact that I can't get better cooling it's more the fact the machine shop is oily. The airborne oil coats everything including the coolers. I have all the fans set to completely turn off to prevent any more oily circulation than necessary under 50c.

Amd seems to be more expensive lately for the performance return so I decided against it.
 

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i have had 10850k and more than 3 11700K running @ 5 GHz and 11700K stays cooler with an air heatsink @ the same clockrate. (non-AVX512)

11700K you can get für 350$ at MC, a budget workstation/creator board like Gigabyte Z590 Vision G which has options for 3x M.2 PCIe 4.0 plus 1x M.2 PCIe 3.0.and Visionlink.

11700K has higher IPC, it does not need higher clockrate than 10850K to outperform it when it is about SC performance.
 

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i have had 10850k and more than 3 11700K running @ 5 GHz and 11700K stays cooler with an air heatsink @ the same clockrate. (non-AVX512)

11700K you can get für 350$ at MC, a budget workstation/creator board like Gigabyte Z590 Vision G which has options for 3x M.2 PCIe 4.0 plus 1x M.2 PCIe 3.0.and Visionlink.

11700K has higher IPC, it does not need higher clockrate than 10850K to outperform it when it is about SC performance.
Thanks. Thats good to know. I never had so many issues with Intel and finetuning bios settings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i have had 10850k and more than 3 11700K running @ 5 GHz and 11700K stays cooler with an air heatsink @ the same clockrate. (non-AVX512)

11700K you can get für 350$ at MC, a budget workstation/creator board like Gigabyte Z590 Vision G which has options for 3x M.2 PCIe 4.0 plus 1x M.2 PCIe 3.0.and Visionlink.

11700K has higher IPC, it does not need higher clockrate than 10850K to outperform it when it is about SC performance.
But what about multi? With a little tweaking I was hitting 16,000 with that 10850k on r23
 

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@Nikado7

is your customer using Cinebench R23 for daily work or is he using Solidworks ?

also i told you it is no big deal to run a 11700K @ 5 GHz, in fact it stays a few degrees cooler than a 10850K @ 5GHz.

now count in the better I/O Options, AVX512. better iGPU, not worth +30$ for the cpu ? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@Nikado7

is your customer using Cinebench R23 for daily work or is he using Solidworks ?

also i told you it is no big deal to run a 11700K @ 5 GHz, in fact it stays a few degrees cooler than a 10850K @ 5GHz.

now count in the better I/O Options, AVX512. better iGPU, not worth +30$ for the cpu ? ;)
Let me ask one thing just to see. What does your 11700k hit on r23 at 5ghz all core while running it? Since it probably would be cooler than a 10c. I know it's not sw's but I just wanna see what it can do at 5 and stock wouldn't be at 5. I think I might be thinking wrong on that 16000 as well. I remember 15,?99 I'll have to check later tonight. I just wanna see some sorta comparison to sway me a little more from the i9. All the things you say are correct and swaying me though, just wanna see that number just for kicks.
 

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But what about multi? With a little tweaking I was hitting 16,000 with that 10850k on r23
what does "a little tweaking" mean?

should be getting better than that if you're running 5.0 all core. I was hitting a bit over 17K even with my RAM not properly dialed in.

ThePook`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 17096 pts with a Core i9 10850K

fwiw Benchmate doesn't read voltage properly, my 10850K isn't that bad (and I wouldn't be able to cool 1.43v if it was).
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
what does "a little tweaking" mean?

should be getting better than that if you're running 5.0 all core. I was hitting a bit over 17K even with my RAM not properly dialed in.

ThePook`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 17096 pts with a Core i9 10850K

fwiw Benchmate doesn't read voltage properly, my 10850K isn't that bad (and I wouldn't be able to cool 1.43v if it was).
Well my problem is it's running 4.7 while testing and I haven't figured out why yet. Everything seems to scale with the per core utilization up to 5.2 like it should but under certain loads it goes to 4.7. Avx is 0. All core setting is 48x so idk where its pulling this 4.7 crap from.
 

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Well my problem is it's running 4.7 while testing and I haven't figured out why yet. Everything seems to scale with the per core utilization up to 5.2 like it should but under certain loads it goes to 4.7. Avx is 0. All core setting is 48x so idk where its pulling this 4.7 crap from.
what board? had a vaguely similar issue with the launch BIOS on my board but it would cap me to 4.5 after a few CB runs until I rebooted.

did you increase the PL limits? max them out if you haven't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
what board? had a vaguely similar issue with the launch BIOS on my board but it would cap me to 4.5 after a few CB runs until I rebooted.

did you increase the PL limits? max them out if you haven't.
Aorus elite ax. It was doing the same thing even with unlimited Pl stuff. I think there's some other weird setting I missed and just need to go through it again.
 
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