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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone.

New overclocker here, had a question on 10850k/msi z490 unify mobo on the "adaptive" mode.

My z490 board has two modes, adaptive and adaptive + override.

My chip needs about 1.26V to get stable at 5.0GHZ all core.

I've noticed a strange quirk on setting to adaptive mode. If I put in 1.26V on the vcore in the bios settings, when rebooting the PC, the vcore in HWinfo under load sometimes shows 1.25V (which is the minimum VSID I think for 5ghz). If it shows 1.25V, typically I have to RELOAD into the bios, then it picks up the 1.26V, and then boot into Windows, and the setting sticks.

This is really strange behavior and I'm not sure why that is.

When I load into the bios from a cold boot, there's like a 50-50% chance it's either 1.26V or 1.25V. It's like only half the time it's registering the value I hardcoded into the CPU voltage bios line, the other half it's taking the minimum VSID value? This does NOT happen on "auto" or "override" with a hardcoded voltage number. Only on adaptive for some reason.

My workaround is use adaptive+offset mode and put 1.25V with an offset of .01V, this guarantees that I'll hit 1.26V under load every time I load into bios/boot into windows.

Anyone else have this problem? Or is this potentially a defective motherboard? Any help will be appreciated.
 

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Guess you didn't even read my reply to your reddit post. Someone help this man, google is not his forte.

Some excellent resources regarding 9th-10th gen overclocking:


 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Guess you didn't even read my reply to your reddit post. Someone help this man, google is not his forte.
Oh no, I did, but your response didn't make any sense. This is what you wrote:

EDIT: Sorry, disregard most of what I said above, for Z490 boards your core multiplier must be above your max turbo boost frequency for a custom voltage value to be used. So for the 10850k your max boost is 5.2GHZ, therefore to be able to input a custom voltage value you'd have to set your all-core ratio to at least 5.3Ghz.

You can't be serious in thinking 10850k/10900k can't load custom voltage values unless they are running 5.3ghz? How does that even remotely make sense, as most chips can't even hit 5.3ghz without some crazy cooling solution.

Are you serious in thinking that I can't run a 10850k at 5.1ghz at 1.3V even if I load that into the bios? Because that is obviously wrong, If I put 1.3V in the bios, it'll run at that at 5.1ghz.

The question is why on adaptive settings specifically will it sometimes default to the VID minimum on the vcore, and sometimes it loads what I set manually in the bios?
 

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Lol, your obviously clueless regarding the eccentricities of adaptive overclocking with 10th gen boards. That's understandable though, we've all been there. Especially right after release it was a confusing few weeks. But anyway, I listed some quality sources if you care enough to read them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lol, your obviously clueless regarding the eccentricities of adaptive overclocking with 10th gen boards. That's understandable though, we've all been there. Especially right after release it was a confusing few weeks. But anyway, I listed some quality sources if you care enough to read them.
Dude, I've read all of that, front to back.

That LITERALLY does not explain why sometimes my chip will load 1.25V at 5GHZ or 1.29V at 5GHZ (which I put into the bios).

Like I'm testing it right now. I have 1.29V set in manually at 5ghz. 50% of the time it loads with 1.29V. 50% of the time it loads as 1.25V.

According to your logic, I wouldn't even be able to load with a 1.29V voltage unless the chip was running 5.3GHZ, which is clearly not the case.

The question is why the hell does it load it 50% of the time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What board do you have? If your on an ASUS board, a picture of your VF curve could be helpful.
Z490 Unify. CPU Core Voltage set as a test for 1.29. Mode is set to "adaptive".

Minimum voltage required on adaptive for 5ghz all core is 1.25V from what I can tell. I.e. if I type in 1.1V in the CPU core voltage, it will STILL only boot with 1.25V no matter what.

The problem is if I put anything higher than 1.25V, it sometimes decides to load that number (like 1.29V for example), and sometimes it says F it, I'm going to load at only 1.25V. THAT's the problem.
 

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Hmm, that is quite an odd problem. I'm on the Z490 Unify as well, but my 10600k OC is an all core to 48X, which is the max turbo boost of the CPU so I can't really use adaptive overclocking unless I wanted to push it to 49 and beyond. For more context, I'm currently running 1.248V on load with 1.265V set in bios, LLC 4. If I switch to adaptive overclocking and set 1.265V in BIOS my CPU disregards that value and reverts to the default VID at 48X which is 1.31V.

Have you looked into just running an AUTO overclock and regulating voltage through AC/DC loadlines? I've had great results myself and wasn't limited by what core multiple I was seeking.

More info here: Guide: Tuning Adaptive Mode OC load voltages for 10th...
 

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Since you asked....

I too am having a problem understanding your situation. Seems to me that even you though you state you've thoroughly read the guide linked above by sixty9sublime, I doubt you are understanding what it says given your OP. Bottom line is this: when Adaptive Mode is truly enabled (which is also the Auto setting of the bios), the CPU is in control of the VID, unless the voltage given in the Adaptive Mode Voltage setting is greater than the voltage of the last V/F curve point and you are overclocking at or beyond the processor's max turbo frequency, as defined by its last V/F curve point...'nuf said. Anything else to be said is already in the guide (as is what I just wrote).

Here's an experiment for you to try. Set your bios to full default. Asus uses 'F5' to do this, I imagine your mobo has a single key press which does this too. Now set the multiplier so the all core max is 50, touch nothing else. Boot and run a stress test. Is it stable? Are you temps OK? If not, use my guide to find an AI AC LL value that gets you both. Beyond that, you are on your own. Note two big things I omitted: is Intel MCE enabled, and are you using a DDR4 kit that requires XMP? Those two are up to you to figure out.

BTW, bummer if you are finding this stuff confounding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here's an experiment for you to try. Set your bios to full default. Asus uses 'F5' to do this, I imagine your mobo has a single key press with does this too. Now set the multiplier so the all core max is 50, touch nothing else. Boot and run a stress test. Is it stable? Are you temps OK? If not, use my guide to find an AI AC LL value that gets you both. Beyond that, you are on your own. Note two big things I omitted: is Intel MCE enabled, and are you using a DDR4 kit that requires XMP? Those two are up to you to figure out.
Apologies if I sounded weird...let me clarify.

In adaptive mode, 10850k defaults to 1.25V at 5GHZ. I understand if I put 1.1V at 5GHZ, it will not load 1.1V but instead load 1.25V.

The issue I am running into is that if I put in 1.3V at 5ghz for instance, It will work for maybe 2 reboots. Then after a cold boot/reboot, the voltage that I am reading is BACK to 1.25V. But in the bios, its STILL set to 1.3V, which is .05V higher than the last point. It's like it's resetting to 1.25 (which is the same voltage if I left it at Auto) after a few tries. THAT is the part I don't get.

Does that help clarify?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Since you asked....

I too am having a problem understanding your situation. Seems to me that even you though you state you've thoroughly read the guide linked above by sixty9sublime, I doubt you are understanding what it says given your OP. Bottom line is this: when Adaptive Mode is truly enabled (which is also the Auto setting of the bios), the CPU is in control of the VID, unless the voltage given in the Adaptive Mode Voltage setting is greater than the voltage of the last V/F curve point and you are overclocking at or beyond the processor's max turbo frequency, as defined by its last V/F curve point...'nuf said. Anything else to be said is already in the guide (as is what I just wrote).

Here's an experiment for you to try. Set your bios to full default. Asus uses 'F5' to do this, I imagine your mobo has a single key press which does this too. Now set the multiplier so the all core max is 50, touch nothing else. Boot and run a stress test. Is it stable? Are you temps OK? If not, use my guide to find an AI AC LL value that gets you both. Beyond that, you are on your own. Note two big things I omitted: is Intel MCE enabled, and are you using a DDR4 kit that requires XMP? Those two are up to you to figure out.

BTW, bummer if you are finding this stuff confounding.
Here's a testing step I did earlier today:

1) Go into MSI Z490 Bios, set to adaptive with 50x core multiplier for 5GHZ
2) In the CPU v-core, type in 1.3V
3) Save & boot into windows. Open up hwinfo, vcore only shows 1.25V (first red flag)
4) Shut PC down & boot into windows. Open up hwinfo. Vcore now shows 1.3V (okay, great)
5) Reboot PC. Open up hwinfo. Vcore STILL shows 1.3V (okay, great).
6) Shut down PC. Leave for 2 hours. Open up hwinfo. Vcore now shows 1.25V (***??)
7) Go into bios, see 1.3V is still set, but I am only getting 1.25V according to monitors, which would be the same if it was set to adaptive automatic without any voltage written in.

This does NOT happen in override/fixed mode, only when things are on adaptive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hmm, that is quite an odd problem. I'm on the Z490 Unify as well, but my 10600k OC is an all core to 48X, which is the max turbo boost of the CPU so I can't really use adaptive overclocking unless I wanted to push it to 49 and beyond. For more context, I'm currently running 1.248V on load with 1.265V set in bios, LLC 4. If I switch to adaptive overclocking and set 1.265V in BIOS my CPU disregards that value and reverts to the default VID at 48X which is 1.31V.

Have you looked into just running an AUTO overclock and regulating voltage through AC/DC loadlines? I've had great results myself and wasn't limited by what core multiple I was seeking.

More info here: Guide: Tuning Adaptive Mode OC load voltages for 10th...
I was just chatting with someone on reddit via reddit chat. He explained it like this:

Apparently with our board, anything under 5.3ghz even if you have anything written in the Vcore (custom voltage) on adaptive setting WILL eventually revert back to the specific voltage as indicated on the v/f curve, which in my case, is 1.25ghz.

Which makes more sense now. My question was why the hell does it let me boot with lets say 1.3ghz for a few sessions but eventually it goes back down and ignores that number? Apparently that's how it works, and only above 5.3ghz does anything you put in custom voltage side on adaptive work.

Holy **** that's incredibly confusing. But glad I got it to make sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Since you asked....

I too am having a problem understanding your situation. Seems to me that even you though you state you've thoroughly read the guide linked above by sixty9sublime, I doubt you are understanding what it says given your OP. Bottom line is this: when Adaptive Mode is truly enabled (which is also the Auto setting of the bios), the CPU is in control of the VID, unless the voltage given in the Adaptive Mode Voltage setting is greater than the voltage of the last V/F curve point and you are overclocking at or beyond the processor's max turbo frequency, as defined by its last V/F curve point...'nuf said. Anything else to be said is already in the guide (as is what I just wrote).

Here's an experiment for you to try. Set your bios to full default. Asus uses 'F5' to do this, I imagine your mobo has a single key press which does this too. Now set the multiplier so the all core max is 50, touch nothing else. Boot and run a stress test. Is it stable? Are you temps OK? If not, use my guide to find an AI AC LL value that gets you both. Beyond that, you are on your own. Note two big things I omitted: is Intel MCE enabled, and are you using a DDR4 kit that requires XMP? Those two are up to you to figure out.

BTW, bummer if you are finding this stuff confounding.
I was just chatting with someone on reddit via reddit chat. He explained it like this:

Apparently with our board, anything under 5.3ghz even if you have anything written in the Vcore (custom voltage) on adaptive setting WILL eventually revert back to the specific voltage as indicated on the v/f curve, which in my case, is 1.25ghz.

Which makes more sense now. My question was why the hell does it let me boot with lets say 1.3ghz for a few sessions but eventually it goes back down and ignores that number? Apparently that's how it works, and only above 5.3ghz does anything you put in custom voltage side on adaptive work.

Holy **** that's incredibly confusing. But glad I got it to make sense.
 

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Wouldn't the adaptive part essentially auto-shift the voltage based on the required request from VID - isn't that the point of Adaptive Mode?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wouldn't the adaptive part essentially auto-shift the voltage based on the required request from VID - isn't that the point of Adaptive Mode?
Yes, but lets say if I need 1.3V to be stable at 5ghz, the VID is only requesting 1.25V. So if I hardcode 1.3V in the vcore with adaptive set, in my situatution, it would only work for like two reboots before the vid starts to request back to 1.25V again. That's the part that was insanely infuriating and I couldn't figure out why.

The fact that it lets me actually hardcode a voltage number in there AND MORE IMPORTANTLY let me boot into windows and show me it was taking those voltages in adaptive was super misleading to me who is relatively new and learning because the only way that number actually won't revert is if the multiplier is > 53 AND the voltage is greater than like 1.45V.
 
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