[mrbonami2]

Hello wondering if anyone as any trick or can help me out. Just got a second set of ram one is a gskill and one is a oloy both are dual rank samsung by cpu z.

3600 cl14 - 14 - 14 1.45v for both.

My setup:

12700k
MSI Z690A ddr4
2x16 oloy + 2x16 Gskill

First boot with the second set failed then i enabled XMP and tried many time to boot then got it to boot at 3600 gear 1 at 1.4v vccsa and 1.5v ram all the rest is stock.

Tried some occt ram and other mem app and everything was running fine even rebooted without issue then i tried to reboot and lower vccsa and it never wanted to boot again at gear 1 even with vccsa at 1.45 and ram at 1.52.

I can boot at default xmp gear 2 without any issue for some reason. But can't even boot at 3000mhz cl14 - 14 -14 at 1.40v vccsa and 1.5v ram

Just looking the most performance for gaming and my BOINC / [email protected] task.

Kinda lost here seem like a software issue or maybe the memory learning option i can't understand what it does.

Thank you

 

[Ichirou]

Use one of the Memory Try It! 3,600 MHz profiles on Gear 1 to retrain the board. I had to deal with this situation too on the MSI Edge.
After it boots up, you can set XMP or do whatever you like afterwards, so long as you don't go beyond 3,600 MHz (daisy chain limit for Gear 1).

 

[mrbonami2]

Use one of the Memory Try It! 3,600 MHz profiles on Gear 1 to retrain the board.

Will try when am back home was wondering what those option where in that list haha.

Thank you

 

[Ichirou]

Will try when am back home was wondering what those option where in that list haha.

Thank you

Cheers.

Also added some more info in the previous reply.

 

[mrbonami2]

Cheers.

Also added some more info in the previous reply.

Thank you again.

Did think i was not crazy. Rebooted and tried many setting for 2 hour and gave up now it running gear 2 xmp at full cpu load and gpu load for the past 12h without issue.

Il report back with my result

 

[Raimond]

2 gear has bad latency, would prefer gear 1.,maybe a bit lower freq

or use cas 15 timings,check if that is stable,als what bios are you using?

 

[mrbonami2]

2 gear has bad latency, would prefer gear 1.,maybe a bit lower freq

That the strange part it did not even want to boot gear 1 at 3000mhz 1.5v ram and 1.4v vccsa.

Real word benchmark do not show a big difference between gear 1 and 2 for some reason. Maybe i could run higher clock instead at gear 2 no idea how my ram stick would handle this.

Working for the next 7h then when am back home gonna work on this

 

[Raimond]

not strange,4x 16gb is very hard for the memory controller.Try with 2x and try again,I am pretty sure it will give better results

4x 16gb dual rank is not the ideal combo with Alderlake.

2x32gb would be the better option

 

[Ichirou]

That the strange part it did not even want to boot gear 1 at 3000mhz 1.5v ram and 1.4v vccsa.

Real word benchmark do not show a big difference between gear 1 and 2 for some reason. Maybe i could run higher clock instead at gear 2 no idea how my ram stick would handle this.

Working for the next 7h then when am back home gonna work on this

Main difference between Gear 1 and Gear 2 is latency; the Gear Mode doesn't really affect bandwidth.
Gear 2 functions pretty much similar to memory overclocking in previous generations: the higher you push VDIMM, the higher you can raise frequency and/or tighten CAS latency.
From my testing, I could boot 5,000 MHz (DDR4) without even breaking a sweat at low VCCSA, on Gear 2. Stability is another thing altogether, though.
Haven't tested quad DIMM configurations on Gear 2 yet. But I know for a fact that it's basically hard capped at 3,600 MHz on Gear 1.

 

[mrbonami2]

Main difference between Gear 1 and Gear 2 is latency; the Gear Mode doesn't really affect bandwidth.
Gear 2 functions pretty much similar to memory overclocking in previous generations: the higher you push VDIMM, the higher you can raise frequency and/or tighten CAS latency.
From my testing, I could boot 5,000 MHz (DDR4) without even breaking a sweat at low VCCSA, on Gear 2. Stability is another thing altogether, though.
Haven't tested quad DIMM configurations on Gear 2 yet. But I know for a fact that it's basically hard capped at 3,600 MHz on Gear 1.

Will test that when back home. Maybe i can run 4000-4400mhz cl14-cl16 or higher clock. No idea what the limit for my dimm all i know is they run at about 45-50c even at 1.5v.

At the same time running at gear 2 3600 cl14 is probably faster than most ram kit on the market anyways seeing people with cl20 3000 kit is

 

[Ichirou]

Will test that when back home. Maybe i can run 4000-4400mhz cl14-cl16 or higher clock. No idea what the limit for my dimm all i know is they run at about 45-50c even at 1.5v.

At the same time running at gear 2 3600 cl14 is probably faster than most ram kit on the market anyways seeing people with cl20 3000 kit is

You won't be able to boot beyond 3,600 MHz on Gear 1 with four DIMMs. Two DIMMs, sure. It's not a RAM issue and likely not even an IMC issue but a topology one. And T-Topology is long dead. If you need the bandwidth and the capacity, you have no choice but to go Gear 2. Or get 2x32 GB. Otherwise, you can attempt 3,600 with CL 13 or less.

 

[Raimond]

If it were single rank modules it could have been maybe,I have seen in the Alderlake ddr4 overclock topic seen people with 4x8gb reach 3900mhz.

But even more memory (4x16 dual rank) will be an chalenge to reach 3600mhz even.
Even with b die

 

[Ichirou]

If it were single rank modules it could have been maybe,I have seen in the Alderlake ddr4 overclock topic seen people with 4x8gb reach 3900mhz.

But even more memory (4x16 dual rank) will be an chalenge to reach 3600mhz even.
Even with b die

Really? Can you link? I couldn't boot past 3,600 MHz with 4x8 GB Single Rank Samsung B-die. And the DDR4 IMC is binned to boot up to 4,300 MHz and stabilize up to 4,266 MHz on dual DIMM. I'm still leaning towards a topology issue.

I should test out my 4x16 GB SR Micron B-die, but I'm lazy and busy.

 

[mrbonami2]

You won't be able to boot beyond 3,600 MHz on Gear 1 with four DIMMs. Two DIMMs, sure. It's not a RAM issue and likely not even an IMC issue but a topology one. And T-Topology is long dead. If you need the bandwidth and the capacity, you have no choice but to go Gear 2. Or get 2x32 GB. Otherwise, you can attempt 3,600 with CL 13 or less.

Nah i mean at gear 2 i could maybe increase clock to improve the latency deficit.

It run at 3600 gear 2 so at worst they are going to run like this

 

[Ichirou]

Nah i mean at gear 2 i could maybe increase clock to improve the latency deficit.

It run at 3600 gear 2 so at worst they are going to run like this

Oh, well yeah, if you're sticking with Gear 2, the sky's the limit, pretty much.

 

[Raimond]

Problem with gear 2 , memcontroller runs half the freq. You will have a lot latency.

 

[Ichirou]

Problem with gear 2 , memcontroller runs half the freq. You will have a lot latency.

Eh, it's about a 10ns latency hit. Not the end of the world, depending on whether or not you can push the RAM hard enough to somewhat mitigate that loss.
Also, you can probably run the cores and cache higher as the IMC isn't being pushed as hard.
And, if you are making an upgrade from a much older PC, it'll still be faster either way since Alder Lake is that much better than previous generations.
It's not the end of the world. But of course, run Gear 1 if you can

 

[mrbonami2]

Eh, it's about a 10ns latency hit. Not the end of the world, depending on whether or not you can push the RAM hard enough to somewhat mitigate that loss.
Also, you can probably run the cores and cache higher as the IMC isn't being pushed as hard.
And, if you are making an upgrade from a much older PC, it'll still be faster either way since Alder Lake is that much better than previous generations.
It's not the end of the world. But of course, run Gear 1 if you can

Most benchmark show almost no difference bandwith is about the same.

I had 2x16gb but for [email protected] i need over 40gb and possibly with the 13900k am gonna max out my 64gb.

2x16 ran fine at 3600 gear 1 cl14-14-14 and for now performance is about the same at gear 2 4x16

 

[Ichirou]

Most benchmark show almost no difference bandwith is about the same.

I had 2x16gb but for [email protected] i need over 40gb and possibly with the 13900k am gonna max out my 64gb.

2x16 ran fine at 3600 gear 1 cl14-14-14 and for now performance is about the same at gear 2 4x16

Bandwidth and latency are two different things. Maximum Thoroughput x Speed.
More data transferred, at the cost of duration. Scales depending on your use-case. If your workloads need a lot of bandwidth, being capped off will hurt more. And vice versa.
Gamers don't really see any benefit to high bandwidth, as games will never use that much in pretty much any situation.

 

[mrbonami2]

Bandwidth and latency are two different things. Maximum Thoroughput x Speed.
More data transferred, at the cost of duration. Scales depending on your use-case. If your workloads need a lot of bandwidth, being capped off will hurt more. And vice versa.
Gamers don't really see any benefit to high bandwidth, as games will never use that much in pretty much any situation.

That true that why am trying to run gear 1.

Just figured the issue i think. Updated to latest bios but did not help.

If i boot XMP GEAR 2 Then reboot and switch to gear 1 it sometime boot after a long preboot dark screen.

Play with memory try it without success for some reason. Probably need to increase voltage with it to boot.

But sound like it the memory learning thing. It learn Gear 2 with the timing then switching to gear 1 is easier.

Gonna report back soon gonna test that again!