[SilenMar]

13900K is more heat-resistant. It can run 1.44V 6.0GHz all-core gaming when it is below 65C. It can also handle 1.42V 5.7GHz all-core around 100C at 350W. For the last two months I have been doing 350W rendering around 100C with this CPU and it handles the heat just fine.

350W Photoshop high resolution image rendering

350W Handbrake E-core video rendering + 3 x 8K 60fps P-core video playback

350W P-core +E-core Handbrake thermal throttling at the set 105C limitation. The same goes to Cinebench23.

The problem is the current motherboard doesn't have sophisticated voltage control to cover the full range on both the heavy load and the lite load. The CPU is either undervolted or overvolted.

If the CPU is undervolted with lower LLC then it doesn't have enough voltage for high frequency 6.0GHz during the lite load.
If the CPU is overvolted with higher LLC then it doesn't have lower voltage for low frequency during the heavy load. It will have thermal throttling at the set temperature limit.

The default setting of 13900K out of most motherboard can already run 40K in Cinebench23. Not everyone runs rendering 24/7 for that undervolted 40K-47K heavy load bench performance. It's more beneficial to run 1.44V 6.0GHz all core lite load for gaming.

 

[Ichirou]

You gotta manipulate it with Adaptive + Offset Mode, preferably a current limit instead of temp limit, and the LLC Saturation Mode enabled.

 

[SilenMar]

The current power limit or limit on power consumption doesn't make a difference in terms of how stable the CPU is around 220-230W, at 85C, all-core, 5.9GHz. A 105C limit with a bit of overshoot at 110C is perfectly fine.

LLC Saturation only helps to boost voltage a bit higher to 6.0GHz for undervolted LLC, such as LLC8, at 1.25V all-core, 5.4GHz. However, it requires both a very good CPU and good VRM, otherwise, it won't work. My CPU crashes straight up with LLC8, LLC7, LLC6 with 1.44V overdrive for 6GHz. The voltage curve for other frequencies is too low. When the CPU runs with borderline LLC5 + Saturation above 40A, the 350W 105C thermal throttled voltage is 1.40V, which is even higher than Adaptive voltage 1.33V.

It's still the combination of LLC, TVB, and Adaptive + Offset voltage that makes a difference. The CPU cannot be stable when the voltage is lower than 1.42V at 5.9GHz, 85C. But there are only two points of effective offset voltage: the point of 6.0GHz, 1.44V, and the point below 5.7GHz, 1.35V. Other frequencies, such as 5.9GHz, 5.8GHz, will be affected by LLC. 5.4GHz is completely ineffective, no matter what the offset value is. LLC5 gets 1.412V at 5.9GHz, which is not stable at 85C, while LLC4 gets 1.426V at 5.9GHz. This also results in 1.41V at 5.7GHz, which can be offset to a lower voltage, but I would rather use a constant high voltage instead of a constant undershoot and overshoot due to higher LLC.

There are only three points of 8-Pcore TVB as well. Anything higher than 85C, I can only set 5.7GHz TVB, or I could have set more points, such as 5.8GHz at 85C-100C, then 5.7GHz 100C-105C.

 

[StAndrew]

What are you cooling this with?

 

[SilenMar]

The PC is just a rendering machine with an old Corsair H115i 280mm AIO with 2 NF-A14 and 2 NF-A12x25.
If the CPU is delided with a custom loop the frequency under heavy load can go higher.

 

[StAndrew]

The PC is just a rendering machine with an old Corsair H115i 280mm AIO with 2 NF-A14 and 2 NF-A12x25.
If the CPU is delided with a custom loop the frequency under heavy load can go higher.

Hmm... would recommend investing in a custom loop. I'm not saying you're wrong here but I'm not convinced you've tested this long enough to make any definitive conclusion. At least I'm not ready to risk my $600 investment

I also think something is buggered with your volt tuning. I used this Guide and tuned my LLC ( AC_LL & DC_LL) and VF curve in accordance and my my volts are at 1.5 but my R23 watts are 290W, occasionally peaks to 300W. I'm rock steady form 6.2 light load to 5.7 heavy load. IIRC, settings were 60, 60, 60, 60, 59, 58, 58, 57 but I would generally get a 200Mhz boost at light and medium load even though TVB was disabled. Custom loop with direct die block.

But I'm now just running stock with LLC curve optimized IAW the above guide, Asus MCE disabled and with a 100W and 10*C drop, I'm still boosting very close to the same clocks as the OC with R23 only dropping 1k points.

 

[SilenMar]

Hmm... would recommend investing in a custom loop. I'm not saying you're wrong here but I'm not convinced you've tested this long enough to make any definitive conclusion. At least I'm not ready to risk my $600 investment

I also think something is buggered with your volt tuning. I used this Guide and tuned my LLC ( AC_LL & DC_LL) and VF curve in accordance and my my volts are at 1.5 but my R23 watts are 290W, occasionally peaks to 300W. I'm rock steady form 6.2 light load to 5.7 heavy load. IIRC, settings were 60, 60, 60, 60, 59, 58, 58, 57 but I would generally get a 200Mhz boost at light and medium load even though TVB was disabled. Custom loop with direct die block.

View attachment 2604903

But I'm now just running stock with LLC curve optimized IAW the above guide, Asus MCE disabled and with a 100W and 10*C drop, I'm still boosting very close to the same clocks as the OC with R23 only dropping 1k points.

With this voltage you cannot run 6Ghz all-core in games. You got 5.7GHz all-core with undervolted voltage instead.

 

[StAndrew]

With this voltage you cannot run 6Ghz all-core in games. You got 5.7GHz all-core with undervolted voltage instead.

I couldn't. Maybe adjusting the LLC tune but it failed at 6.0 all core R23 (posted though). However, I agree, I have a lot more headroom in the CPU and cooler. Unfortunately not in the PSU. My STRIX 3090 has the XOC bios and when overclocked, pulls 600W continuous and transient spikes up to 1000W so with the CPU overclock and GPU overclock (2130 core) I get random PSU trips so I decided to stop there.

But when I found out that I get basically the same performance with a lot less power and heat, I saved my OC profile then returned to stock settings and still get game clocks in the 5.8ish range. At 4k on a 3090, I don't think I need a 6Ghz CPU.

 

[SilenMar]

I couldn't. Maybe adjusting the LLC tune but it failed at 6.0 all core R23 (posted though). However, I agree, I have a lot more headroom in the CPU and cooler. Unfortunately not in the PSU. My STRIX 3090 has the XOC bios and when overclocked, pulls 600W continuous and transient spikes up to 1000W so with the CPU overclock and GPU overclock (2130 core) I get random PSU trips so I decided to stop there.

But when I found out that I get basically the same performance with a lot less power and heat, I saved my OC profile then returned to stock settings and still get game clocks in the 5.8ish range. At 4k on a 3090, I don't think I need a 6Ghz CPU.

All of these motherboards don't have voltage control to cover both overvolt and undervolt simultaneously.

You are not rendering 24/7 like I am and are more likely playing games. In fact, I don't even need to do anything for heavy load rendering. The default BIOS setting is already at 40K. You undervolted it to get a 2.5% increase 41K with a lower temperature. However, the CPU is designed to handle 100C just fine.

So the headroom is meant for high voltage and high frequency at light loads.

 

[Damage Inc]

However, the CPU is designed to handle 100C just fine

100C on stock clocks and volts may be "fine", not overclocked and overvolted.

 

[gecko991]

That is a little toasty for me.

 

[StAndrew]

All of these motherboards don't have voltage control to cover both overvolt and undervolt simultaneously.

You are not rendering 24/7 like I am and are more likely playing games. In fact, I don't even need to do anything for heavy load rendering. The default BIOS setting is already at 40K. You undervolted it to get a 2.5% increase 41K with a lower temperature.

Says who? And what difference does it make? I'm just saying I think you have a lot more voltage tweaking to go. I ran my overclock at 5.7 all core for over 24 hours of R23 and barely broke 300W peak power and still was stable at 6.0-6.2GHz under light and medium load. I'm pretty sure you can bring that 350W power down a bit.

However, the CPU is designed to handle 100C just fine

So the headroom is meant for high voltage and high frequency at light loads.

This is where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't think there is enough testing to validate that claim.

 

[Damage Inc]

This is where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't think there is enough testing to validate that claim.

He must have watched that YT video that der8auer did with some Intel engineer in which he said that "100C is perfectly fine as long as you let your CPU cool off for a while" or something along those lines. Total marketing bullcrap even a 80IQ simpleton shouldn't fall for.

 

[SilenMar]

Says who? And what difference does it make? I'm just saying I think you have a lot more voltage tweaking to go. I ran my overclock at 5.7 all core for over 24 hours of R23 and barely broke 300W peak power and still was stable at 6.0-6.2GHz under light and medium load. I'm pretty sure you can bring that 350W power down a bit.


This is where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't think there is enough testing to validate that claim.

I already said your voltage is undervolted that won't be stable for 6GHz all-core light-load gaming. This is the difference. You have 5.7GHz in games instead. If you want 6Ghz all-core gaming then the LLC needs to be raised to the stage of overvolt instead.

I have been running like this for the last two month including several days of continuous rendering. There is no problem with it.

You want the even lighter heavy load like smallFFT Prime95 330W instead of Handbrake 350W then I can show it to you. It just hit the thermal wall to have less voltage.

 

[SilenMar]

100C on stock clocks and volts may be "fine", not overclocked and overvolted.

The CPU doesn't request specific "low" default voltages. It's always the motherboard doing the adjustment.

He must have watched that YT video that der8auer did with some Intel engineer in which he said that "100C is perfectly fine as long as you let your CPU cool off for a while" or something along those lines. Total marketing bullcrap even a 80IQ simpleton shouldn't fall for.

What video? I've been doing 100C for long since 9900k. Maybe somebody IQ lower than 80 don't understand the heat-resistance of this gen 13900K.

 

[StAndrew]

You have 5.7GHz in games instead. If you want 6Ghz all-core gaming then the LLC needs to be raised to the stage of overvolt instead.

SAYS WHO?

I already said your voltage is undervolted that won't be stable for 6GHz all-core light-load gaming. This is the difference.

Let me try one more time.

I
AM
STABLE
FOR
6.0
GAMING


Overclocked, my gaming clocks were between 5.8 low, 5.9 - 6.0 average, and 6.1 peaks (and 6.2 light load/medium load).

I am NOT stable at 6.0 R23 all-core but I don't think you are either. Whats your point?

 

[SilenMar]

SAYS WHO?


Let me try one more time.

I
AM
STABLE
FOR
6.0
GAMING


Overclocked, my gaming clocks were between 5.8 low, 5.9 - 6.0 average, and 6.1 peaks (and 6.2 light load/medium load).

I am NOT stable at 6.0 R23 all-core but I don't think you are either. Whats your point?

Says me of course. Games use all P-cores. You have a setting of 60, 60, 60, 60, 59, 58, 58, 57 then you have 5.7GHz in games. You should have a setting of 60x8. This is the point.

 

[StAndrew]

Says me of course. Games use all P-cores. You have a setting of 60, 60, 60, 60, 59, 58, 58, 57 then you have 5.7GHz in games. You should have a setting of 60x8. This is the point.

Wrong. I hit 5.7 in all core heavy load such as R23. Look back to what I said. My CPU boosts 200MHz over the overclock settings even though TVB is disabled. My game clocks are NOT 5.7, they are 6.0 with small drops to 5.9 and small peaks to 6.1. Look at my attachment. My clocks are sitting at 6.2 all day under light load.

You're saying I can't setup a V/F curve that allows the CPU to run at 5.7 heavy and 6.0 light load, yes? I disagree.

 

[SilenMar]

Wrong. I hit 5.7 in all core heavy load such as R23. Look back to what I said. My CPU boosts 200MHz over the overclock settings even though TVB is disabled. My game clocks are NOT 5.7, they are 6.0 with small drops to 5.9 and small peaks to 6.1. Look at my attachment. My clocks are sitting at 6.2 all day under light load.

You're saying I can't setup a V/F curve that allows the CPU to run at 5.7 heavy and 6.0 light load, yes? I disagree.

Your attachment picture is meaningless in desktop with no game to use all p-cores. In reality it is 5.7Ghz.
Better show the screenshot of an actual game.

 

[StAndrew]

Your attachment picture is meaningless in desktop with no game to use all p-cores. In reality it is 5.7Ghz.
Better show the screenshot of an actual game.

Since you know all about how my computer clocks, you show me my screen shots. In fact, show me a game that loads 16 threads to 100%. I'm beginning to think you know how Intel Turbo Boost works...