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THINK OF BELOW POST AS THE PRECURSUR...

Ok, so the title says it all. My daughter's HTPC I built her (heating the living room) is ready for water and the sig rig was due for a real upgrade.


So, months of preparation are about to commence in the project. I do not intend on entering these into contests - just looking for advice and all the normal - show off your watercooling type fun.


I have basically all the equipment except for some loose ends. This thread will help determine those final details. I'll update this as the builds go on - this is a 2 fer
. The Sig Rig will be the first to go, then Kylie's computer.

Ok, so down to details.

Sig rig got new full tower case. Thing is huge. Here it is:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108190

Bad so far is the crappy hdd "anti earthquake" or something grips to hold the drives. Came with 3 120's and a 220 on the front portion - that's the good. Massive size is awesome, price was unreal too - so no complaints.


It will be a CPU only single loop run on a 240 rad - and yes, you read that picture right, there's a CyberDruid 3 Bay Rez going in here too. I got one one of the last couple! More on that later.


Future possibilities with this case and setup include a second loop. I put the paper towels in there for perspective (the Grim Reaper is my Easter Egg for you all!, I did carve that in a galaxy far far away.). There's definitely room for a second pump down there - even with all the extra cables from the PSU. Ample room. I would hang a second radbox on the back 120 spot and have the radiator hang upwards, as opposed to down - in conjunction with the other one on top. (Alternative would be to steal Cyberdruid's idea of under PC cooling rig he did - or something similar)


Plus, there's 4 watercooling holes in the back - I can't just let them sit there!. No seriously, the Radbox has holes where the case is set up for 2 120 mm fans. So I'll put it on the top of the rad, and let it hang off the back as described. the airflow will be straight up for both attached fans (maximizing heat output into room). I'll move that 120 fan immediately to the right aiming up (as seen in pic).

Safety highlights of this system!!

1.)With 2 drainports in the back, it will be quick easy and extremely effective. I don't think it will mess with the flow at all. I will probably use 6-8 inches per drain tube (symmetry and trying to get to lowest point possible). Any leak on the rad connection (suspected in current loop), will drain down right to the drain ports - and never get near the inside.


2.)Fillport going to hole outside, so I'll never really need to open the case unless doing an upgrade or full cleaning. Hopefully the T-Line will be hanging over all non-essentials. This will be a goal of the loop.

3.)DVD drive under the 3 bay rez will act as the sheild to the hdd in case of leak above. Sorry, but it's an IDE due for an upgrade anyways. I will contemplate a waterproofing of the hdd further. It will be my 1.5TB holding Windows 7 now.

Only real threat of course to the system is the CPU block. I will not mess that up.


Other goodies to the design:


It makes it EXTREMELY simple to clean your loop.
There should be no excuses. For Sig Rig, raise the PC up like 3 feet (in place in room if I wanted)...put a bucket underneath and do your thing. For Kylie's, the same, minus I'd open the case to pull out the second T-line.

So what do you guys think of the setup?

Do you like the dual drains?

Is the fillport in good location. I figure, before the rez and it allows me to put in quite a good amount of water to prime the pump! Much more water than if I were to put it after the rez.

I think it's rock solid myself...like I said, I've put months of thought into this. all I need is the tubing, and more T-Lines!

PS - colors on tubing are AS SHOWN. I will have both lime green
and blue
(I want to get rid of my blue tubing).



OK, Kylie's computer - below, proof I did it myself!


Please note the stickers - I measured it so the Rez should not interfere with them
Also note it went, paint, paint paint, stickers, sparkles, gloss, gloss gloss (coat-wise)

And what it looks like now:


Makes for a great wipes warmer for Kylie... I'll move that to the front - but it won't be as warming as above the PSU.

This is going to be the same basic design as the first one.

She'll get my current rad. Because of my leak concern - I may take drastic sealing measures at the connection (especially since I went through a motherboard just last week - do not want to fry another). I'm thinking like plumber crap or caulk or something just in case... this will be the final resting place for this rad!


Besides the blue rad, the fans will be multicolored or red - and ALL the tubing will be red. No, my wife isn't a fan of the luminosity of red in our living room....


The case is the same size as my current rig (mid tower), so I'm not too concerned - except for the fact this motherboard makes you use the lower slot for GPU... so with 4870 - very tight down below. I'll have to get creative. I'll probably just jam it up towards the front of the case, have tubing go out above the 4870...sound good?


Oh, and no 3 bay rez for baby girl..she gets 1 bay!
 

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Drains are good. Just mount them at the lowest point and you're fine. Looks like you've planned this well and know your way around watercooling so I'll just sit back and watch. Good Luck!
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by kimosabi
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Drains are good. Just mount them at the lowest point and you're fine. Looks like you've planned this well and know your way around watercooling so I'll just sit back and watch. Good Luck!

1 comment overnight, and it's a good one - thanks man.

Yes, both those T-Lines will hang probably to the floor. I'm hoping the symmetry of the 2 will make it not look too much like a cow..

The cleaning benefits outweigh the acsethics.

I know this sounds crazy - but I was even envisioning actually completely changing the water while the system is running.

There will be enough water in it - so one drain line...and keep filling with tap until it's been completely flushed. It would never be without water, so the chip would be fine - and the pump would keep pumping. Then, dillute that with distilled until it's completely distilled....(1/2 gallon or so?)

(Edit, the 2 T-Lines would benefit when not doing the crazy plan above - for regular cleaning).
 

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Haha, cows have their drains at the lowest point of their "loop" so there you go.


Thinking about serviceability will pay off once you start using it, that's for sure. My first build was way too complex and I had to basically take the whole rig apart to service it. Lesson learned to say the least.

You can make some sort of valvesystem so that you can change liquid during operation too but that calls for a bit of engineering TBH. Alot of parameters to think about if you're seriously considering doing that. I like the idea though. In any case, it would be critical where you put that drain considering that the pump needs it's feed constantly and you don't want air entering the loop.

*edit* I thought about your idea again and it actually can work depending on where you put the T-line. The drain would have to be somewhere after the res but before the pump and it can't be too big because you'd steal some of the water going to the pump. Maybe an additional drain from the res? Yeah, that could work man.
 

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Trying to find small brass ball valves Gill. FrozenCPU has some valves in stock, but no info on what they are made out of. They look a LOT like some brass valves I found online from a Chinese manufacturer - but better to be sure before ordering anything.... Koolance also sells a small ball valve made of brass. It has g1/4 threads and also looks a lot like a valve I found for sale on ebay.uk - probably the same product. Again the advantage is not having to ship internationally and also not having to buy a box of them. (
I can not believe I just recommended Koolance!!)
 

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Hey Nub, don't worry bro

I completely agree with you that I should spare no expense on Kylie's, but I'm a cheapskate too (the fillport themselves are luxury compared to the duracells you see on some builds...lol)

I'm leaning on the modified single port on the flipped over rad you suggested.

To all others not in the loop -Nub suggested some tweaks.

Where I am now in my head:

Keep both drain ports. Add a fillport at the apex of the loop right before the rad aiming straight up (fittings aiming upwards).

This will act as sort of an air bleed (because no real valve will be there), but the rez will do that primarily.

This also removes the internal fillport, while that one was suited for better easier fill of the pump itself - this modification brings that weak spot outside the case.

I liked that idea..(less chance of harm). Thanks nub, +1 of course.

The other good thing about nubs suggestion is, that if I ever did add those valves - there would already be a spot for it since the line was split for the T-Lines...so I wouldn't have to modify the internal portion of the loop at all.

I think it adds to the design overall. Even at $20 a pop for the valves (before shipping), I just can't justify it - couple of those and I could be adding another rad!

Does anyone see any glaring issues with this modification nub suggested that we may have missed?

(for full disclosure, nub suggested 2 fillports up top with valves)...so I opted for 1 of those 2 suggested.
 

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FINISHED PROJECT BUILD LOG COMMENCES BELOW....enjoy...

The Grim Reaper (a.k.a the new sig rig)


Here's the chaos mid night 1......



CyberDruid 3 Bay Reservoir - awesomeness....easily one of the coolest things on Earth.



Clear tygon drainage point. Any sediment in the loop will inevitably end up down there. Mind you this is immediately in front of the pump - note the direction. I can test water quality - but on Kylie's - I switched the orientation backwards because it seemed like a more logical water flow...definite differences in the two loops.



I think this was end of night one (it was late - hence why I screwed up pump flow direction) - ALSO good reason to ALWAYS double and triple and quadruple check your rig before firing it up.



Radbox is now mounted. Easy install on the included deuce 120's up top..I moved 1 of 4 included to the immediate right with outwards airflow. Both fans are both aiming the flow of air - as well as you'll notice the tubing is aiming up too. This was Nub's suggestion - it did make filling way easier. Also has crazy pressure....it's pretty sweet!



Now all the tubing is connected to the loop...Green and blue.....looks good though




Cpu block is in place....this one went like a charm...more on that later..



Bye bye old Sig Rig......you'll find a new life I'm sure. Case lasted 5 years...not bad...pretty ugly death though huh?? I literally outgrew the case..



Start of night 3....9 pm... this is Friday...power hours...


Cleaning the old sig rig - these parts would be recycled for Kylie's loop tomorrow night. Easily the most miserable part of the build. Vinegar - I swear it never really get's out of the loop. My sig rig loop was exactly 1 year old. The tubing held up well for the most part - I did 1 total super cleaning qat 6 month mark and drained maybe once or twice more. trust me..distilled is absolutely the way to go. And for the love of god, don't use the dye's either....that kept coming out when cleaning (like 2 cleanings since!) too no matter what..



This was a couple hours or more. I worked on moving the hardware over from the sig rig to the Grim Reaper. The plan was, undo the motherboard - start the cleaning loop with vinegar - install the motherboard while it was running - take my time - and blam.


Filling the new loops was an absolute charm - the 3 bay plus the top fillport was so incredibly easy it was foolish...


Ran that for a bit, and then sorta cleaned the kitchen so my daughter wouldn't get at anything. She wasn't going to be around most of the day - so I wasn't worried about putting it 100% away...still part of time planning though...I wish I had a workshop or garage..



End of night 3 (I won't say what time...it was a long....long weekend).



Grim Reaper was up and running..... 1 of 2 loops done. Sweet!

Inside the Grim Reaper....nice cable management ehh??



How does that Green Blue combo look now.....yeah, I thought so...awesomeness.




Dual drainage loops...one clear tygon for water quality check...


Couple more pics as it looks set up:


Stay tuned for Loop 2 - Kylie's build tomorrow... it's late and I'm tired....I'll also upload a couple of vids of the waterfall too that I took...

Also included will be final thoughts - what I learned, thanks etc......
 

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nice nice work!!! looking forward to the next one
 

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Ok, so Tuesday was a bad day (for those who were following the thread). As promised - the show must go on. Sorry it just took a couple of extra days. Yes, I am looking for work now. If you guys know of any good jobs in MA - keep me in mind.
 

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Thanks for following and holding on a couple of days.

Kylie's Computer.

Ok, first thing - I did the case and the initial work sometime in October - early November. Case is originally a Rosewill $30 case, I traded with a friend a $20 Rosewill winner of a case
...that's all his old man needed. I got that case for free - so I got the base case for basically $10 out of pocket. Not bad. 2 USB's upfront - that's all I need.

Motherboard is a 790GX from Biostar to replace the broken Asus 780G board (boo Asus, dead at 12 month mark - poor workmanship and longevity). Jury is still out on this Biostar.
8GB "Motley Crew" edition OCZ series. Lol, I made that up - it's 2 Fatality 1066's DIMMS DDR2 and 2 Blade series 800 DD2. Running at a lower CAS (5) at 8GB's at 800.
Phenom II 940 @ 3.6 currently. Kinda want to see if I can get it higher stable..I was able to get 3.67 in Linux on the other board..3.6 is good though..happy with that.
HIS (boo, hiss hiss) 4870 1 GB. Stock, the card is a rock...good temps at 805/900 @ 24/7 usage (82C) running Milkyway. 12 plus months, just cleaning fans...too bad my 4890 from HIS didn't last more than 3 weeks.



Dangerden block as cleaned - it looks fine. Of all blocks NOT TO COMPROMISE on concerning your tubing clamp...Seriously...don't mess.



That's the inside through the custom cut window (thanks Roth, my brother)..I went with thin plastic for a window thinking it would help keep it cooler...there's enough airflow I don't know for sure - but it is a little louder than I wanted...we can always cut a new plastic window now that the "platform" has been built.

Also note the wire management - it's awesome. I even covered it in pink stuff, and also used red UV sata cable.

Kylie's computer got my Dangerden pump 900L/hour, the old radiator (blue) - but total red tubing. And I got her a 1 bay rez. If I had the 3 (which she LOVES by the way guys - she likes my new rig more than me!!), I had to at least put 1 in for her! I'm also using the Dangerden block that used to be on the sig rig on hers. Both are Dangerden - I cleaned this one real well with vinegar. (mix run with loop, then straight with a shake in my hands when it was taken apart - then total flush).



Two takeways before I go further. You'll notice I don't have pics in progress for her computer - here's why.

First loop took a lot out of me - always does. Hers was just as long and arduous - even more so. Because I was reusing one of the screw posts - I kept forgetting one side was stripped. Screwed with it for an hour to get it to work. Horrible, horrible setback. Totally throws you off..and - you're wiped from doing a huge loop the night before - and CLEANING the old loop. The cleaning is the worst for me... but here's the different:

With my old loop (Closed loop system with a T-Line), it was a huge pain to fill it - even with the T-line, and get it going..same with draining.

So, the whole pupose of the new loop was to avoid it - which brought me to mistake #2 of the evening - I forgot the damn second drain port on the new loop. Again, first mistake and being tired from night before dictated that I wasn't going to put second one in. I could always cut straight on the tubing and install the y-line, that's fine. You'll notice that I DID remember to try the other direction (mistake from first loop - I wanted both loops to aim in this direction for the drainports). And the tygon for water quality of course.



Also note the use of Y lines instead of T-lines on both sides. This was by design to match a direct contradiction to flow but at the same time allow the 2nd and 3rd sides go in their respective loop-ish direction (up or down) without much intrusion into a natural flow.

Grates anywhere my daughter can get her fingers. Kinda counter productive - it's too high up anyways, and she can get at the crap on my sig rig anyways...I try teaching her not to mess with certain parts...fans bad...shredder bad...lol




The above was a failed attempt at putting the tubing to the cold New England window. not only was it bending the tubing too much - there was no gain (or drop, which is what I was hoping...the tubing is too thick). Also - for heating the room....the Rad finally heated up after some time - but airflow isn't so great upwards - a sacrifice for sound...so it isn't dumping heat as much as I'd like - but it's certainly keeping CPU cool - overall - liking the thermal transfer...there's plenty hot air still coming out of the case.



Another horrible setback was the Radbox. First thing I did when I started the loop the first night was to set the old Radbox onto the top of the case with Epoxy (crazy stuff I used on my gas cap, that piece of crap!). Well tried setting the rad to measure the tubing - blam - off it comes!
Immediately. Oh well, grabbed the drill - put paper towels in the case so shavings would hit motherboard (or the back, just as bad...metal shavings and metal connections don't make for friends always.
). Drilled two holes and dug into my screw bag, and walla - five minutes later is was as stable and as it should have been initially - I just wanted to avoid drilling the case once finished)..) I know why I didn't want to drill - PSU gets in way...so - with the offset I have - I was able to drill 2 holes - and because of the inherent design now - with the pull being down - the front end is pulled forward - so the radiators weight itself makes 2 screws hold it sufficiently in place.

Note the fish stickers, I placed them with the rad and radbox in mind - that worked out well. It can also accommodate a more forward position of the rad as well as a larger rad. What you can't see in the pic is how much glitter is on that case. There's litterally probably 2 dixie cups worth of glitter on that paint. For whatever reason, either the lighting of the room - of the finish coat of spray gloss killed it...who knows. Looks good though, even up close. Cool texture too.

The pump... another on the fly tweak. It ended up fitting fine - but I left too much tubing from the pump to the rez... when pushed up against the case door there was a rattle that wouldn't go away. Suspension was the answer - for room, for sound - for better flow of the tubing. So, god loves zip ties as much as duct tape...because I linked like 6-8 of them in a chain in both directions to suspend it inconsipcuously.. Snipey mode, pretty silent too!

That is foam padding for child protection - the type you put on the corners of coffee tables and such (how we had it - until she kept ripping it off, ok suit yourself Rockie..). I cut just enough to have it suspend in the perfect angle and barely be touching the 4870 (for weight and thermal concerns).

(Project takeaway - Full Cases are better for watercooling, for sure!!! No question about it - I have 2 PCIE's in there - but I don't even think my 4770's would fit....I'm definitely gonna try at some point.)


Also note the black foaming I recycled from a PSU case that I used as a sound dampener. It totally worked - even my wife fully admits it's incredibly more quiet than with the stock cooling. The major source of sound now is the 4870 stock cooler....just saying... This foaming was strategically placed to dampen the sound - but it also thermally contains the heat to the areas that we're always worried about...why am I not worried? Because it also dampens the airflow to zero - so since I know my ambient in case temps are cool with good airflow..Red Dragons.



Stickers....I guess the symmetry was maintained afterall since there's opposite fill/drain ports in back now..

I liked how all the stickers came out. They were pre-glitter and pre-glossy finish. Many many coats....

Now that I'm looking at it, there's Nemo and a Turtle up in front. 2 animals my daughter focuses on now (loves the movie - and we went aquarium today with her...she loves it there..3 words out of her mouth today "Wow, cute, more....
). I'll have to re-show my wife those two stickers tomorrow morning, totally forgot that I put them there. Today, Kylie liked the turtles and the big tank more than the clown fish.

Tons more aquatic stuff on the "Kylie's Computer" side too.




Here's the front side with the lights on...More awesome stickers..and you can see my brother has a funny idea of a straight line
Also funny - look at what we use as a base for the thing... a DVD/VHS player. Totally outdated (my wife hates when I point it out). So I just leave it there....I think it's funny and ironic, so I keep it.



This also shows how we use it - as an HTPC. Also note the 2 little wires in back - that's the wireless N USB (Cisco)...it's sweet - coupled with the N from FIOS - it's awesome. Netflix could be better, but I don't think it's the N (total nit-picker here). Video games, music and photos, web browsing....incredible. Very pleased with the N performance, really - it's insane.

And me, a cruncher as well - here it is in action!



I do get tearing because of my use of VGA through DVI adaptor (99% sure that's why)...I only have 1 HDMI port - how are those splitter hub (they're cheaper now right?)??

Lights out - red, red everywhere!!



I ended at an insanely late hour again on Sunday morning. I was TOTALLY wiped by then. Couple setbacks I didn't anticipate - but once the loop was filled, it went almost as easy as the other one. No leaks, perfect build was complete.

Closing thoughts in follow up post. (this is long enough as is...)
 

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Couple of videos before I forget:




Ok, final thoughts.

Full Tower cases are way better. Metal clamps work fine, the only leak I had in previous loop was the rad to barb connection - there was some rust on that clamp and area. With a new barb (perfect seals), and some hard work - and there's no faulty hardware. Only other rust was on the t-line area where I filled.

So, cleaning and reusing the equiptment with good cleaning worked out real well. Staying AMD to AMD platform also helped. My new block should work with both brands though. Little disappointed I had to buy a new motherboard (still AM2+/AM3) - but I had to anyways, I had the 8 GB's.. Little better of a board though. New BIOS and options are pretty good (including ACC - not ruling out a future unlockable AM3 hex??)

Back to loop. Reusing the tubing may have worked - but at $2 and change per foot - it was just better to replace it. I'm thinking the regular loop (close, T-line was 6 feet and change), and the new was about 8ish each (maybe more for sig rig since it's a bit bigger). I ended up with about 2 feet left each of green and blue - and easily 5 plus of red..maybe more.

So I could make another loop someday.

The pump was fine recycled...it works like a charm...all the better being cleaned. Same with the block. The new block is sweet - like I said - multi-platform. The pump is surprisingly industrial - I like it, virtually silent! Laing D5)

The barbs held up - I have about 6 left over (new and used) to put together if I wanted. The different (high flow, high volume, and perfect fit) do seem to matter a bit - I liked the way I could grip better in the higher positioned rad with the tubing pointing up now - it definitely felt solid.

Definitely don't do dyes..Distilled water all the way. Here's where I do have a problem - as the pics and video's show - foaming bubbles...those litter buggers....I tried some isopropyl in the sig rig - but no good, they still come back (and I lost some heat capacity, awesome (gonna drain with any good suggestions here!!
)

What happened in sig rig is I definitely put too much of the biocide for the humidifier. I just though the volume of the water was so much greater...oh well.. So I drained it twice on that Saturday (before Kylie's build that night), and went straight distilled - figuring any residue from the rez would just do what I needed anyways.

And still bubbles... awesome...same with Kylie's - but I think that's from massive flow. Is there anything I can add to kill the bubbles?

Which brings me to the question: Can I add another block for the sake of slowing the flow a bit? I think the rad can handle it - and the CPU probably has 20C thermal movement now...(from a ambient perspective from the water)...it's Maxing right around 40C @100% CPU usage..that's NASTY. It is the chip, the limitation (3.6 area) - it will get higher and not work - but the water is clearly doing it's job...

Another takeaway was mentioned before - heat dissipation and noise reduction. The noise reduction is great, and you can in fact literally channel the heat from your CPU in any direction of a room..it's just not like a "fan" or anything...Still very cool.

So the greatest noise now in both systems is definitely the GPU's...when money is flowing again - next step would be GPU blocks to get those fans out of there. I'd do the 4870 on the rad downstairs (Kylie's). But for upstairs, that'd be a larger project depending on the outcome of thermal data from downstairs (second loop vs. just a second rad). Judging from the flow of both loops - I think maybe some lower flow wouldn't entirely hurt with both a second rad and GPU block/blocks.

Well?? What do you think...thanks for reading the log - hoped you enjoyed and learned from it.


I'm hoping my daughter keeps it until she goes to college! I still have my desk my grandfather built me for Christmas when I was 8..writing on it now!..you can see a hint of it in a couple of the pics actually. Point is - some things are meant to last..this will. This is her computing platform her father built - the no-joke one.
 

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No feedback at all?



Bump hoping someone of the 110K plus strong on OCN will appreciate this.

Guess I'll be on Left 4 Dead 2 (same name) .....
 

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Looking great man! I love the contrast between her pink pc and your 'Grim Reaper', haha.
Must be awesome having a dad that can build you a full water cooler rig
(although that may not be something she'd appreciate as much as we here at OCN would
)
 
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Quote:


Originally Posted by lozanoa11
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my question is: does you daughter know what any of this stuff is? If so how old is she and post pics! Lol J/k


Fair question, sorta


She'll be 2 in April. So far she kinda grasps:

1.)definitely DVD's, how to open it
- and that it will play her movies (she doesn't understand how easily she'll ruin the dvd's though:swearing

2.)Elmo game is on computer - she understands it's her machine running it - but also she knows that's more "in the TV" (both monitors and corresponding desktops have the shortcut icon)
3.)Keyboard - not how to put them together, but the elmo game makes her use it..and she knows she has to, to get the game to work properly

That's about it so far..she likes the water too- knows not to go near the wiring (I freak out)..but I'll often come in and all the crap on top of the sig rig will be on the floor - she loves the USB's too..

As she gets smarter, I'll teach her more of course..she's just as big a fan of her shoes right now (she can put them on
)..
 

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Originally Posted by gtsteviiee
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Very nice PC for you and your daughter. (your daughter has a faster computer than mine too )


- She has a technically better computer than her old man too.

She has X4 native, I have X2 technically.(thank god for ACC unlock!)

She has 4870, I have 4770 (albeit 2)...

PS - Shattered Horizon is much nicer on a 4870 at 1360x768 than crossfired 4770's on 1900 x 1200...

BFBC2 Beta just downloaded! It says it can launch...we'll see.
 

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hahaha nice thing here!!
from pink n shinny rig i thought some girl is modding her rig but u did it for ur daughter thats great!!!

well why u love to put rads on top of ur rigs with such long tubes .... why dnt u place it in the rear i mean mount it against the 120mm fan location!!!!
it will be clean n quite easy to move ur casing
u need definitely some management inside ur casing!!! loops n wirteres also!!!
over alll nice effor
 
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