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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Hey,
I am building a server and I had a concern which I will explain below the part list. The part list I am planning:

Link to newegg wishlist with the following info: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10900129
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ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
Item #: N82E16817994064

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ASUS Z8PE-D12(ASMB4-IKVM) Dual LGA 1366 Intel 5520 Tylersburg SSI EEB 3.61 Dual Intel Xeon 5500 and 5600 Series w/ Remote Management Server Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813131373

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Athena Power RM-2U2260LV85 Black 1.0mm Steel 2U Rackmount Server Case
Item #: N82E16811192229

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WINTEC 24GB (3 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) ECC Registered Server Memory Model 3SH13339R5-24GT
Item #: N82E16820161381

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Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820148348

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Intel Xeon X5680 Westmere 3.33GHz LGA 1366 130W Six-Core Server Processor BX80614X5680
Item #: N82E16819117228

1 Generic DVD Burner Drive

My fear is the power supply not being enough. The case has a 850W PSU it seems, do you think that would be enough to power all of this? If not, whats my next best option for the build? I appreciate all comments, if you spot anything incompatible I would really appreciate it, spent a while looking it over, seems alright to me, wanted to double check with someone.

I was also wondering if this type of RAM was correct? Had some confusion on selecting the RAM.

Thanks for reading this thread. Will keep first post updated with new events/happenings.
 

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I think it's fine, your wishlist quantities are screwed up though. 850W should be more than plenty for that build.

Why were you confused about the ram? seems fine to me.

How will you install OS for the first time? Also if you're raiding those SSDs you may not get any trim support as the LSI controller won't support it and I think Intel only support trim on raid with the ich10r and ich9r. Also bear in mind that MLC drives such as the C300 aren't considered "enterprise" quality, if that matters, get the intel x25-e instead, however that drive doesn't support trim.
 

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What's this server for? I recommend the Dell Poweredge T710.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by stren;11916500
I think it's fine, your wishlist quantities are screwed up though. 850W should be more than plenty for that build.

Why were you confused about the ram? seems fine to me.

How will you install OS for the first time? Also if you're raiding those SSDs you may not get any trim support as the LSI controller won't support it and I think Intel only support trim on raid with the ich10r and ich9r. Also bear in mind that MLC drives such as the C300 aren't considered "enterprise" quality, if that matters, get the intel x25-e instead, however that drive doesn't support trim.
Do you have any suggestions of an enterprise quality SSD with trim support that might work for?

EDIT: Did some digging and I think I am going to have a problem. Can anyone suggest a board with a good raid controler for SSDs that I can get a Raid 5+1 going with? I updated the first post with my updated build list. Added a few things I was missing like extra drives and a DVD bay so I can boot.
 

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Most raid controllers support ssds they just don't support trim. I believe the ocz vertex ex is slc and supports trim *if* you update it to the latest firmware. However no raid cards support trim yet, afaik only the ich9/10r controllers do which are probably not on server motherboards. However if you can do a secure erase on the drive every month and rewrite your data then you should be fine. I've been using ssds without trim support for nearly a year now, and while they're not as quick as they were, they're really not horribly slow either. I wish I had some benchmarks to really show though.

The other option is to use software raid of the kind supported by linux or osx, however linux only supports limited forms of trim on the latest kernels. If you're going with the ich9/10r or software raid then you should go with raid 10 as they won't handle the parity well. But ssds are generally better off with 10 rather than 5 anyway as they are slow to write than read, so unless you're reading a lot more than writing than you're better off balancing the faster read of the ssd with the faster write of raid 10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by stren
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Most raid controllers support ssds they just don't support trim. I believe the ocz vertex ex is slc and supports trim *if* you update it to the latest firmware. However no raid cards support trim yet, afaik only the ich9/10r controllers do which are probably not on server motherboards. However if you can do a secure erase on the drive every month and rewrite your data then you should be fine. I've been using ssds without trim support for nearly a year now, and while they're not as quick as they were, they're really not horribly slow either. I wish I had some benchmarks to really show though.

The other option is to use software raid of the kind supported by linux or osx, however linux only supports limited forms of trim on the latest kernels. If you're going with the ich9/10r or software raid then you should go with raid 10 as they won't handle the parity well. But ssds are generally better off with 10 rather than 5 anyway as they are slow to write than read, so unless you're reading a lot more than writing than you're better off balancing the faster read of the ssd with the faster write of raid 10.

Hey, seems like you know a bit about controllers and such, could you link a high end board that supports trim? There has to be SOME server mobo that supports it surely?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by stren;11926036
I'm honestly not too familiar with the server boards but the supermicro boards seem to use the ich10r southbridge so they should be fine. Just bear in mind the ich10r isn't going to have the processing power to do raid 5, so you'd have to go with raid 10:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007629%2050001655%20600007999%20600008549&IsNodeId=1&name=Intel%205520#

Again none of this matters though if your OS doesn't support TRIM
I plan to be running Windows Server 2008 R2 x64 which is listed as having TRIM support so I should be ok there I think yes? That board looks interesting will take a look at it when I get home.
 

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Yeah I guess it should then. One more thing, if the x5680 comes with the same heatsink as the 980x you may want to double check if it will fit in that server case as it looks fairly low profile?
 

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SR-2 may not fit in that case (it's only rated for EATX). SR-2 is great if you want to overclock, if you're building a real server then you probably don't want to overclock and may as well as save the money and get some better "server" features. Also if you're looking to expand the SR-2 isn't rated for 192GB of memory as it only seems to support 96GB from what I've read. All depends on what the OP wants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by stren;11928664
SR-2 may not fit in that case (it's only rated for EATX). SR-2 is great if you want to overclock, if you're building a real server then you probably don't want to overclock and may as well as save the money and get some better "server" features. Also if you're looking to expand the SR-2 isn't rated for 192GB of memory as it only seems to support 96GB from what I've read. All depends on what the OP wants.
Yeah, I am not looking to be overclocking or anything of that nature as it would be in a business environment and stability is key
tongue.gif
.

Right now my huge issue is trying to find a motherboard that will let me dual lga 1366 while having a decent raid controller so I can do raid 0 for example and have trim support (under the impression there isnt trim support for standalone cards, only a few of the intel mobs).

Any help on that would be much appreciated.
 

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You can't have raid and trim. There's no way. You could though get two Crucial C300s and raid them. The c300s as I've heard have a great garbage control. What's the server going to be for though?
 

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Incorrect:
http://www.overclock.net/software-news/694625-intel-trim-raid.html

Garbage control is an OCZ thing afaik that was their solution before they had trim support .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willanhanyard;11930543
You can't have raid and trim. There's no way. You could though get two Crucial C300s and raid them. The c300s as I've heard have a great garbage control. What's the server going to be for though?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopes;11930837
Hrm, so what are my options since its not realistic to use the SSD without this....
You could just get a really big single ssd.
 

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Your options are:

1. RAID 10 with SSD + Trim using ICH10R

Pro's: Supports trim
Con's: It's not the best raid controller, but it'll still be pretty fast, just don't try any fancy parity raid.

2. RAID 5/10/Whatever with SSD using a good card (for example that Areca you picked out)

Pro's: Will be really fast to start with
Con's: To maintain uber speed you'll need to do a secure erase on the drives every so often (note if you have a card that can rebuild the array on the fly and you can hotswap the drives, then you can do this with no down time, take the drive out, plug it in as esata, secure erase, and pop it back in the server - if you do this, probably best to have at least 2 drive redundancy in case you lose a drive while you're erasing)

3. No Raid SSD with trim

Pro's - easy + cheap
Con's - not as fast, not as reliable (no redundancy)

4. Raid 5/10/Whatever with SAS drives

Pro's: No trim required
Con's: Not as fast as ssd, (but that areca card has so much cache maybe it's not a problem), heavier, more power etc

Note that if you have redundancy you can get away with MLC drives, as long as you're not using the array as a 24/7 data centre type of deal.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by Willanhanyard
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You could just get a really big single ssd.

To be honest for a server I'd take redundancy with no trim vs one drive with trim. In my experience the slow down without trim really isn't too bad. Still faster than a regular HD.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by stren
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Garbage control is an OCZ thing afaik that was their solution before they had trim support .

I was wrong on this one, a lost of drives have GC in the background, I think I was thinking of the wiper.exe program that OCZ used to have before trim.

Anandtech did a comparison of the C300 with only garbage collection and with trim:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3812/t...realssd-c300/8

The intereseting part is at the end: "Not exactly a drastic improvement. The idle GC just isn’t very aggressive. Compared to what Indilinx and SandForce have done, Crucial’s implementation just doesn’t cut it. For Windows 7 users running a single drive this shouldn't matter since you have TRIM. But if you're running RAID or another OS, the C300 isn't as desirable."

So maybe for look at some different drives if you're going without trim?
 
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