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Discussion Starter #1
The new NVIDIA game started, all RTX 3080 that failed to work stably above 1500MHz they will sold as RTX 3060 by limiting the upper frequency at the safe zone of 1410 MHz.

Will the price of DUAL-GTX1660S-O6G-MINI will be slotted further down that 230 Euros and of many more NVIDIA cards after 2 of December ?
RTX 3060 even at 400 Euro this is not going to be at the safe zone for mass volume sales.


I will simply assume as it is safe to be assumed, that RTX 3060 this is planed as replacement of the dead GTX 2070 as this product stock has all ready dry out within Europe.
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
Chip binning is not a new concept.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi,
Chip binning is not a new concept.
Yes I know that, many other chip specification has be trimmed down too, now lets see if NVIDIA this is expert enough at pricing binning too :)
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
Nvidia will milk releases for all they can up binning down binning.
ti
Super duper
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.
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.
 

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This is fake news. 3070 doesn’t even use the same die as the 3080. Why would the 3060 with even fewer cores use it? Keep in mind 3080 and 3090 are the same die. They have something like 10,748 cores on a fully operational die. With the shortage of 3080s, it would make no sense to sell a die that has over 50% of its cores disabled.

3090/3080 = same die
3070/3060 = same die.

3060Ti is NOT going to be using the same 628mm2 as the RTX 3090.
 

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This is fake news. 3070 doesn’t even use the same die as the 3080. Why would the 3060 with even fewer cores use it? Keep in mind 3080 and 3090 are the same die. They have something like 10,748 cores on a fully operational die. With the shortage of 3080s, it would make no sense to sell a die that has over 50% of its cores disabled.

3090/3080 = same die
3070/3060 = same die.

3060Ti is NOT going to be using the same 628mm2 as the RTX 3090.
It's not baseless however. One of the 2060 refreshes from the last gen did use the 2080 die, it was only the EVGA 2060 KO and far past launch, but it happened.

And you seem to not realize the every core made comes out perfect. If they have a lot of defective dies in manufacture they can reuse them in the lower end cards, 90 -> 80, if they're really bad and they can't be used for the 80 then they can put it on something else like they did with the 2060 ko.
 

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There is no mention in the "article" (rumour) you linked that even indicates this.

RTX 3060TI will not be based on a gimped GA102. Rather GA104 (RTX 3070).

Did you even read the link or are you intentionally trolling? Reported...
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
This isn't the news section or even rumors section.
 

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It's not baseless however. One of the 2060 refreshes from the last gen did use the 2080 die, it was only the EVGA 2060 KO and far past launch, but it happened.

And you seem to not realize the every core made comes out perfect. If they have a lot of defective dies in manufacture they can reuse them in the lower end cards, 90 -> 80, if they're really bad and they can't be used for the 80 then they can put it on something else like they did with the 2060 ko.
2080 die is different from 2080ti. This generation, 3090 is the RTX titan and 3080 is the 2080ti. Both same die. Even the ampere quadro cadd is using the same die because this is the top end chip. And it's not going to be used in a f#%*ng 3060ti, especially when the 3070 is not even using it. I don't give a rats bum who makes this claim. It's complete garbage. It will never happen. You have to close down your fabrication business if you're making chips with over 50% failure rate.
 

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Performance is the bible
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Hi,
Nvidia will milk releases for all they can up binning down binning.
ti
Super duper
.
.
.
.
And how is that different from any other chip maker?
Remember polaris, and how for 2 years AMD kept releasing different variations of the same chips based on binning or cut downs of CUs based on manufacturing?
The 480 was re-released as 580 and then re-released as 590. Same chip, just better binned.

When there is money in binning, everyone will do it as much as the market allows it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is fake news. 3070 doesn’t even use the same die as the 3080. Why would the 3060 with even fewer cores use it? Keep in mind 3080 and 3090 are the same die. They have something like 10,748 cores on a fully operational die. With the shortage of 3080s, it would make no sense to sell a die that has over 50% of its cores disabled.
Nothing stops NVIDIA from Chip binning of any stock that does not qualify this sold as 3080.
Even so your note this is correct regarding sanity.

Personally I was ready to push this month the cash, and get the 1660 Super that I have choose several months ago.
AMD this is going to release their firecracker at 8 of December, and now NVIDIAs new RTX3060 firecracker at 2 of December this sounds as logical to happen between competitors.
 

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In your dreams
 

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This is fake news. 3070 doesn’t even use the same die as the 3080. Why would the 3060 with even fewer cores use it? Keep in mind 3080 and 3090 are the same die. They have something like 10,748 cores on a fully operational die. With the shortage of 3080s, it would make no sense to sell a die that has over 50% of its cores disabled.

3090/3080 = same die
3070/3060 = same die.

3060Ti is NOT going to be using the same 628mm2 as the RTX 3090.

Totally agree with your statement, but than again look at the curve balls Nvidia has thrown us this year....

628mm2 die would be insane on a xx60 series card.... but at this point nothing surprises me.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
628mm2 die would be insane on a xx60 series card.... but at this point nothing surprises me.
They can not promote it as 4K gaming Killer solution.
It fate will be judged at the first benchmarks at 1920x1080 and Call of duty.
1660 Super this is a known 100 FPS card at 230 Euro as we speak.
Would you pay 400 Euro for 150 frames at most ?
 

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WaterCooler
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This generation, 3090 is the RTX titan and 3080 is the 2080ti.
No it's not and people should stop pretending this. 3090 does not even have Titan drivers. 3090 is a 2080 Ti replacement with a $300 price hike and a number change so you wouldn't notice with clever "Titan 'class'" marketing. Sure it can perform and I won't diminish that, but it is very clearly not actually a Titan. 3080 is a replacement for 2080, but moved back up a tier in chip likely because Nvidia had an idea of RX 6000, plus using Samsung "8"*cough*10*cough*nm. Plus why would the supposed 2080 Ti replacement regress in VRAM? Sorry, for me, doesn't pass the smell test.
 

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More Cores!
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No it's not and people should stop pretending this. 3090 does not even have Titan drivers. 3090 is a 2080 Ti replacement with a $300 price hike and a number change so you wouldn't notice with clever "Titan 'class'" marketing. Sure it can perform and I won't diminish that, but it is very clearly not actually a Titan. 3080 is a replacement for 2080, but moved back up a tier in chip likely because Nvidia had an idea of RX 6000, plus using Samsung "8"*cough*10*cough*nm. Plus why would the supposed 2080 Ti replacement regress in VRAM? Sorry, for me, doesn't pass the smell test.
This, 100%. The 3090 is a 2080Ti replacement, full stop. If it gets Titan drivers tomorrow, I'll eat my words.
 
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No it's not and people should stop pretending this. 3090 does not even have Titan drivers. 3090 is a 2080 Ti replacement with a $300 price hike and a number change so you wouldn't notice with clever "Titan 'class'" marketing. Sure it can perform and I won't diminish that, but it is very clearly not actually a Titan. 3080 is a replacement for 2080, but moved back up a tier in chip likely because Nvidia had an idea of RX 6000, plus using Samsung "8"*cough*10*cough*nm. Plus why would the supposed 2080 Ti replacement regress in VRAM? Sorry, for me, doesn't pass the smell test.
Whether you feel that way or not is irrelevant. That is what Nvidia has decided. The 3090 only has 2.4% cores disabled from the full die. So if this isn't a Titan, what could the Titan be? Well...it could be the full 2.4% more cores. Would an additional 2.4% cores enabled make for a "Titan" card? No? What else would it need? 48GB VRAM perhaps? Well guess what? That card already exists. It's the Ampere Quadro RTX.

Ask questions, instead of making assumptions. You're asking why the 2080 Ti has VRAM regression. This is simple. The 3080 was supposed to be double-SKU'd. And it still may be. The reason being that the Micron 2GB GDDR6x chips were not/are not ready at the moment. Meaning they either had to delay the launch entirely, or start with the only chips available, and transition to the 20GB, under the standard 3080 branding (no Ti). AMD's launch has changed things a bit and now we may get a 3080 Ti that has more cores active, and the 20GB VRAM as originally planned - whenever Micron releases them.

As for the possibility of a 3090 Ti or "Titan," it's theoretically possible, but it won't be the same level of performance gain as we've seen from previous Titan launches. There are only a few things they could do:

  • 2.4% more cores
  • 24GB GDDR6x at the top end 22GBps speed
  • Switching from 24 memory modules down to 12 once the 2GB ones are released with a possible power/heat reduction
  • Switching to TSMC 7nm (very very unlikely, but theoretically possible)

But it all comes down to this: If you don't think the 3090 is a Titan card, then you shouldn't expect a card with 2.4% more cores enabled to be a Titan card either. Whether you feel the 3090 is worthy of the Titan name is another matter. This generation, there is no other way to release anything better, outside of what I listed above. Because previous generations normally had a top end card that had just over 7% of the cores disabled. Meaning they could release a fully enabled die, with somewhat faster memory, and claim a 10% performance increase. There is no room in the current architecture for even half of that performance increase. You'd get more of a performance increase from using a more powerful cooler than from enabling an additional 2.4% cores or bumping up the memory clock even more, since as we see with the 3080 to 3090....even with 20.5% more cores and 23% more memory bandwidth, you're only getting a 10-14% performance increase. Because there's just no more TDP/thermal headroom.

Those are just facts. Bashing your head against the wall, no matter how hard, won't change them.
 

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Whether you feel that way or not is irrelevant. That is what Nvidia has decided. The 3090 only has 2.4% cores disabled from the full die. So if this isn't a Titan, what could the Titan be? Well...it could be the full 2.4% more cores. Would an additional 2.4% cores enabled make for a "Titan" card? No? What else would it need? 48GB VRAM perhaps? Well guess what? That card already exists. It's the Ampere Quadro RTX.

Ask questions, instead of making assumptions. You're asking why the 2080 Ti has VRAM regression. This is simple. The 3080 was supposed to be double-SKU'd. And it still may be. The reason being that the Micron 2GB GDDR6x chips were not/are not ready at the moment. Meaning they either had to delay the launch entirely, or start with the only chips available, and transition to the 20GB, under the standard 3080 branding (no Ti). AMD's launch has changed things a bit and now we may get a 3080 Ti that has more cores active, and the 20GB VRAM as originally planned - whenever Micron releases them.

As for the possibility of a 3090 Ti or "Titan," it's theoretically possible, but it won't be the same level of performance gain as we've seen from previous Titan launches. There are only a few things they could do:

  • 2.4% more cores
  • 24GB GDDR6x at the top end 22GBps speed
  • Switching from 24 memory modules down to 12 once the 2GB ones are released with a possible power/heat reduction
  • Switching to TSMC 7nm (very very unlikely, but theoretically possible)

But it all comes down to this: If you don't think the 3090 is a Titan card, then you shouldn't expect a card with 2.4% more cores enabled to be a Titan card either. Whether you feel the 3090 is worthy of the Titan name is another matter. This generation, there is no other way to release anything better, outside of what I listed above. Because previous generations normally had a top end card that had just over 7% of the cores disabled. Meaning they could release a fully enabled die, with somewhat faster memory, and claim a 10% performance increase. There is no room in the current architecture for even half of that performance increase. You'd get more of a performance increase from using a more powerful cooler than from enabling an additional 2.4% cores or bumping up the memory clock even more, since as we see with the 3080 to 3090....even with 20.5% more cores and 23% more memory bandwidth, you're only getting a 10-14% performance increase. Because there's just no more TDP/thermal headroom.

Those are just facts. Bashing your head against the wall, no matter how hard, won't change them.
Sorry your argument falls completely apart if you historically look at Titans and guess what, they are not always the top of the performance stack (Remember the Titan vs 780 Ti?) or are marginally different from their Ti counterparts (though always more VRAM). However they do have the distinction of having separate drivers. 3090 doesn't have this. 3090 uses GeForce drivers. It's not a Titan. That's a fact.

If you are asking what is the Ampere Titan then? Easy. There isn't one. You simply have a $1500 next gen replacement of the previous gen $1200 2080 Ti with a new name so it doesn't look bad and called "Titan class" as if that actually means something aside from "expensive".

You say Nvidia calls it a titan therefore it is. Some of us would call that marketing and look at the fact that it obviously isn't.
 

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Sorry your argument falls completely apart if you historically look at Titans and guess what, they are not always the top of the performance stack (Remember the Titan vs 780 Ti)? However they do have the distinction of having separate drivers. 3090 doesn't have this. It's not a Titan. That's a fact.
The Kepler series was an exception. In that case, even the normal GTX 780 used the same die as the Titan (or I mean, arguably, it was the same as what we see with the 3080/3090). That was also the first time a Titan card was conceived. This was also 7.5 years ago. The Titan wasn't always the top performing card. Even the 1080Ti surpassed the Pascal Titan X. But it was always using the largest die possible, as is the 3090, with the highest memory configuration, as with the 3090. And with only 2.4% of the cores disabled, it means that if the 3090 is not a Titan card, there will be no Titan card.

Btw, I've owned 9 Titan class cards not including the 3090. How about you?
 

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The Kepler series was an exception. In that case, even the normal GTX 780 used the same die as the Titan (or I mean, arguably, it was the same as what we see with the 3080/3090). That was also the first time a Titan card was conceived. This was also 7.5 years ago. The Titan wasn't always the top performing card. Even the 1080Ti surpassed the Pascal Titan X. But it was always using the largest die possible, as is the 3090, with the highest memory configuration, as with the 3090. And with only 2.4% of the cores disabled, it means that if the 3090 is not a Titan card, there will be no Titan card.

Btw, I've owned 9 Titan class cards not including the 3090. How about you?
Nope. Why would I buy Titans for gaming? Is your ownership of Titans supposed to mean something in the context of a discussion around marketing? Not sure your point there except to flex maybe?

3090 has had more gaming marketing around it vs any actual Titan cards excluding the original Kepler. No Titan drivers. It's not a Titan.

Your point about where a theoretical Ampere Titan fits in current stack is irrelevant to that point. There simply isn't an Ampere Titan and that has no bearing on whether the 3090 is a Titan or not. It very clearly is not and people like you need to stop spreading rhetoric that it is.

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