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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone that can explain?

I'm curious because my parents crappy medion 60hz monitor is very crap, for when he uses it to play with me online.
Currently we play trine series for pc.
Enabling vsync on his monitor, causes massive input lag. Disabling it causes massive screen tearing. Even with the inbuilt FPS cap within the game, you still can't get rid of the screen tearing. It can get reduced, but the result is still not satisfying.

So what if he got an 120hz monitor instead? Its a GTX 650 videocard, so its not a powerfull videocard. And I'm not even sure if he could achieve 120fps with an 120hz monitor.

But I just wonder if 60fps on a 120hz monitor with either vsync on or off, would still be miles better than 60fps on his current 60hz monitor with either vsync on or off.
 

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I can't give you a precise answer, but hopefully this will help.

My 2 cents: tearing is solved by one thing only, syncronising the FPS with the refresh rate. This can be done with Vsync (el cheapo classical way), or Gsync/Freesync which will become available soon.

As such, you need at very least Vsync. The challenge is to find a monitor that has low input lag
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So enabling vsync on a 60hz monitor with very very low input lag / ghosting, would be the best approach, compared to the 120hz monitor solution I described?

The good question is then what are the top 5 60hz monitors with very low input lag / ghosting.
EDIT: Within a $250 budget. and max 24"
 

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any TN panel will have pretty low input lag.

you can try ben q or asus 144hz if you dont want freesync/gsync. they run about $250.

if you want 60hz you can get it even cheaper. top brands right now are. ben q, asus. and some pretty decent ones that follow( Acer, AOC, Nixeus(if you want high resolution) monoprice), but they still all have their little flaws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
But their videocard is the GTX 650 as said earlier. I dont think its powerfull enough to achieve 120fps / 144fps.
And I Just found this qoute here:

"60Hz on a 60Hz display would look better (smoother) than 60Hz on a 120Hz display.....because you see you gpu will be pumping out 60 frames every second while your monitor displays 120 frames every second, what happens?.....your monitor displays some frames for too long.....your monitor is ready but your gpu isnt so the same frame gets displayed until the gpu is ready....this causes stuttering...sometimes tiny other times quite severe"

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2174779/60fps-120hz.html

Does that guy, have the correct answer when it comes to 60fps on a 120hz?

Some TN 60hz "gaming" monitors, seems to be better than others, when it comes to ghosting. But I'm having a hard time tracking down the best ones.

edit: Also the $250 budget, seems to be a little off. Here is an example:
Asus 24" LED VG248QE cost $400 here in Europe. But in USA (newegg.com) its only $270. So unless I can find a 120 / 144 in used condition, its not going to happen
 

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Well, I get 50-74 FPS in Planetside 2. I immidiately notice the difference if I accidently leave the monitor at 60hz... 110hz subjectively looks better, even if I turn on VSync or in-game "smoothing" at 60hz.

If your monitor runs at 120hz, there's no reason to drop it down to 60hz (unless some applications have compatibility issues, which is why I do it). Just run double VSync if you want to hold 60FPS instead of 120.
 

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Input latency will be lower on a higher FPS monitor. The reason is actually kind of simple. At 60hz the monitor takes a new frame every 16.6ms, on a 120hz its every 8.3ms. Right there this produces a reduction. It also reduces the stutter associated with 60 fps as well because frames are only held under vsync for a maximum of 8.3ms instead of 16.6ms. The end result of which is that 60 fps on 120hz is quite a bit smoother and less laggy than 60 on 60. However gsync is significantly better again, because games don't actually run perfectly constantly at 60fps all the time, they fluctuate and so having the monitor display frames as they arrive is by far the best solution that eliminates the tears and reduces the latency to a minimum. Its kind of expensive right now but it is the best currently available solution for removing stutter and latency that I know of.
 

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Yes 120hz is worth it.

Don't even need to use vsync 90% of the time.

I haven't use a 60hz screen or vsync in years.

Also the higher the hz the lower the screen response time is, there is a true limit that 60hz is faced with. Low input and Ghosting are all better with 120hz screens, in fact. The Higher the HZ the less Ghosting you should have in the first place.

Also just so you know, you are still refreshing at 120hz. Even if you are only playing at 60fps.

Don't waste money on a 60hz screen. TN Screen's are bad enough, stick to 120hz if you must use one.
As for me I OC my 1440p monitor to 96hz, huge difference from the stock 60hz. 60hz is a tearing nightmare, 96hz is not. I can't stand using vsync, though it isn't too bad triple buffered.

Anyone that tells you that you won't notice a different has never used a 120hz monitor. And therefor their opinion has no real insight over the matter.
 

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Its worth also noting you will see the vsync off tear lines less easily with a 120hz screen because they survive only halve as long. At 60 fps it will scan the same image out twice with two different tear lines so it does reduce the visual impact a reasonable amount. 120hz gsync is better because it avoids the problem completely but I wont ever go back to a 60hz screen and this is my second 144hz. I can't even use a mouse at 60 anymore, it feels so slow and unresponsive on the desktop let alone in games.
 

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60 at 60 is better if you can maintain it with vsync/triple buffering. else the 120 wins. but freesync/gsync is a lot better for fps bouncing around 50-70.

You might get addicted to staying above high 80s on 120.

edit: also I don't really mind scan lines, but I don't like the subtle effect of frames not having perfect timing. I'll take 120 vsync'd over 130fps on 120hz anyday. 130 at 120 looks pretty much same as 110 at 120, and even down into the high 80s it's hard to tell the difference. But [email protected] is just a notch more awesome~

as somebody suggested you could go dynamic sync(+triple buffering), which is just vsync on if you can maintain the fps=monitor refresh, vsync off if not. If freesync/gsync is not an option or you want blur reduction. (on a 120hz+)

edit: but keep in mind the start of this post!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
But vsync on alone causes massive input lag. And I tryed it with triple buffering activated in the nvidia controlpanel. I didnt noticed much of an input lag reduction.

Maybe the input lag will be less, on a faster pc monitor also with vsync on.

As said earlier, their videocard is not strong enough to maintain 120fps. And the budget, doesnt allow for such an monitor either. So its 60hz monitor. I'm just getting drowned in the jungle of "super fast" 60hz monitors. And having a hard time to figure out, which ones are in the top 5 spot.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendigo4700 View Post

But vsync on alone causes massive input lag. And I tryed it with triple buffering activated in the nvidia controlpanel. I didnt noticed much of an input lag reduction.

Maybe the input lag will be less, on a faster pc monitor also with vsync on.

As said earlier, their videocard is not strong enough to maintain 120fps. And the budget, doesnt allow for such an monitor either. So its 60hz monitor. I'm just getting drowned in the jungle of "super fast" 60hz monitors. And having a hard time to figure out, which ones are in the top 5 spot.
Triple buffering and VSync actually increase input lag.

Try using dynamic VSync alone. Lowering the flip queue also decreases input lag, but might make the game stutter more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendigo4700 View Post

I did a little digging around. And it seems the Samsung S24D300H is the best choise
http://www.digitalversus.com/lcd-monitor/samsung-s24d300h-p21802/test.html#full-review

It cost 140 euro here in Denmark.

A second monitor, could be the Samsung S24D390HL IPS. Which is 130 euro
http://www.digitalversus.com/lcd-monitor/samsung-s24d390-p21541/test.html#full-review

Any thoughts on either? Acording to the links, they're suppose to be actually quite good with low ms.
Can you afford a 120hz monitor? That would be smoother/better if you could.

Remember input lag and pixel response time are both measured with milliseconds, but are 2 very different things.

Low input lag monitors usually have high refresh rates, and sometimes have very simple OSDs/few inputs. Response time is more complicated... It measures how fast pixels change from one state to another (which affects motion clarity/blur), but advertised response times are usually wrong.
 

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It doesn't matter if you can actually hold 120hz. Input lag will still be lower, and artifacts will be less severe with a 120hz refresh rate. Hanns G/Hanspree makes some very cheap 120hz displays you should be able to afford.

FYI I'm avoiding 60hz monitors because I'm not sure they'll be significantly better than your current monitor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

It doesn't matter if you can actually hold 120hz. Input lag will still be lower, and artifacts will be less severe with a 120hz refresh rate. Hanns G/Hanspree makes some very cheap 120hz displays you should be able to afford.

FYI I'm avoiding 60hz monitors because I'm not sure they'll be significantly better than your current monitor.
What about the link I provided in #5?
That guy in he link, pretty much says to avoid an 120hz monitor, if you cannot achieve 120fps.

Link:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14217055884156&key=7777bc3c17029328d03146e0ed767841&libId=644bb698-226b-4f41-8840-bfb523dd1037&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overclock.net%2Ft%2F1536542%2F60fps-on-120hz-vs-60fps-on-60hz&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.co.uk%2Fanswers%2Fid-2174779%2F60fps-120hz.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overclock.net%2Ft%2F1536542%2F60fps-on-120hz-vs-60fps-on-60hz%2F10&title=60fps%20on%20120hz%20vs%2060fps%20on%2060hz&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.co.uk%2Fanswers%2Fid-2174779%2F60fps-120hz.html

Qoute:
"your gpu pushes out 60 frames ever second but a 120hz displays 120 frames every second....that means to sync with the 60 fps from the video card, the monitor would have to do 0.5 fps every second which unfortunately is not possible, so it'll display one frame and then wait for the video card to push out another one so it can display that....creates stutter...this is exactly the problem G-sync solves...when fps goes below 60 on a 60hz screen or it goes below 120 on a 120hz screen....now you could say that 120hz monitor with 60 fps video card, wouldnt the monitor be as smooth as a native 60hz one?....the answer is no, not really, there will be times when the monitor would function perfectly as a native 60hz one, but other times when the fps from the gpu fluctuates even the tiniest bit, the whole 'display one frame and then wait for the video card to push out another' thing falls apart...the screen stutters...plus, y on earth would you need a 120hz anyways?...apart from watching 3D on the Xbox (to my current knowledge) does not support 3D right now anyways, they may patch it"

And here:
"60Hz on a 60Hz display would look better (smoother) than 60Hz on a 120Hz display.....because you see you gpu will be pumping out 60 frames every second while your monitor displays 120 frames every second, what happens?.....your monitor displays some frames for too long.....your monitor is ready but your gpu isnt so the same frame gets displayed until the gpu is ready....this causes stuttering...sometimes tiny other times quite severe"
 
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