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Tank destroyer and a god
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys.

We had recent update at home when our provider announced an upgrade in ADSL link for free. The upgrade was from ADSL2 to ADSL2+. Since then I was experiencing intermittend network issues mainly when router was operating and transferring larger amounts of data.

Yesterday I asked if I could check and configure the router.

I checked upon frequency spectrum and noticed that range from 1,1Mhz to 2,2Mhz is too close to noise while on ADSL2+. So i switched the protocol to ADSL2 where this frequencies are not used at all. Upload remained the same (about 50kb/s), download went bit down (from 660kb to 520kb.

There was also one notable difference = no packet loss on slower setting. Also the pings which were up to 3000/loss are after this change more stable - typically up to 125ms when transferring data, without load 22ms to provider.

Link for internet is shared with telephone line, and there is present one DSL splitter.

Questions:
1. I have available 2 different DSL routers from Asus. DSL-N10_c and DSL-AC68u
The latter one is more powerful, i checked upon technical specs, but does anyone have experience which of them can better handle line which is bit troublesome? I have trouble to convince the owner of the link to accept the better router.

https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSLN10_C1/
https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSLAC68U/

2. VDSL
There is slight chance that telecom might upgrade our line to VDSL (the other router is ready for this). If the link is even now troublesome, can we expect improvement?

3. Are there any recommendations regarding DSL splitters?
Such as they are designed to operate on certain DSL standards.

4. The line acts strangely
Which means we have excellent upload, more than ISP offers. But not every ADSL2 router was able to work on this line, no matter settings. Also when router is set manually to Annex B (which is actually used) line might not be up, or server might refuse to communicate.

5. Any experience with shared line?
Like 2 ADSL routers on same line.

6. Is there any way how to determine if the longer ping is caused by the line/dsl or by the router?

Edit: Corrected name of one of the routers, added links.
 

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Just Lift Bro
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3,234 Posts
1. Thats nearly a lottery what chipset works better on bad lines tbh but i usually find broadcom routers seem to work better when i had ADSL2 but that depends on the equipment in the exchange.
2. VDSL Speed will depend how far you are from the VDSL equipment (usually a metal box in your street)
3. Splitters i find ADSL Nation are pretty nice - http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php
4. Chipset dependent
5. Not sure? you mean line bonding? thats 2 lines with 2 adsl services into one router ?
6. Ping can be varied by a lot of things though like how the ISP routes its traffic, usually faster technology like VDSL will give better ping.
 

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Tank destroyer and a god
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Discussion Starter #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylzer View Post

1. Thats nearly a lottery what chipset works better on bad lines tbh but i usually find broadcom routers seem to work better when i had ADSL2 but that depends on the equipment in the exchange.
2. VDSL Speed will depend how far you are from the VDSL equipment (usually a metal box in your street)
3. Splitters i find ADSL Nation are pretty nice - http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php
4. Chipset dependent
5. Not sure? you mean line bonding? thats 2 lines with 2 adsl services into one router ?
6. Ping can be varied by a lot of things though like how the ISP routes its traffic, usually faster technology like VDSL will give better ping.
1. Both routers have broadcom chips. I find them very good from my experience.
2. According to coverage map provided by the ISP i am about 50 meters beyond VDSL coverage. Nevertheless a technician may come and say "there is no way that VDSL will work over this line" even if I would be in that distance.
3. It says "ADSL2 compliant". Since there are trouble with certain frequency spectrums, it would explain whats wrong and different/better dsl splitter would solve it.
4. I checked additinoal stuff such as wiring... Apparently N10_C1 might have trouble to work with wider frequency spectrum, but only way how to compare those routers is to test them and see for myself.

5. I mean we have one line, splitter and two routers.

6. In general if upload is 20kb/s my ping remains low. If its 40+ it degrades to 125ms. It works in similar manne with download. Question is whether to blame router, or ISP.
I can do some traffic in our home network and see if it affects ping to outside network...

Apparently DSL specs distinguish between regions. While using any DSL router/modem its a lottery if the guy who sold it is aware of that. Specs for power adaptor of one were giving 110v - apparently the document was "blindly translated" from english specs without making any corrections (here in europe we have 220v). That + the notoriety of the ISP i am using can explain why it works completely out of any known specs.
 

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Just Lift Bro
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3,234 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler View Post

1. Both routers have broadcom chips. I find them very good from my experience.
2. According to coverage map provided by the ISP i am about 50 meters beyond VDSL coverage. Nevertheless a technician may come and say "there is no way that VDSL will work over this line" even if I would be in that distance.
3. It says "ADSL2 compliant". Since there are trouble with certain frequency spectrums, it would explain whats wrong and different/better dsl splitter would solve it.
4. I checked additinoal stuff such as wiring... Apparently N10_C1 might have trouble to work with wider frequency spectrum, but only way how to compare those routers is to test them and see for myself.

5. I mean we have one line, splitter and two routers.

6. In general if upload is 20kb/s my ping remains low. If its 40+ it degrades to 125ms. It works in similar manne with download. Question is whether to blame router, or ISP.
I can do some traffic in our home network and see if it affects ping to outside network...

Apparently DSL specs distinguish between regions. While using any DSL router/modem its a lottery if the guy who sold it is aware of that. Specs for power adaptor of one were giving 110v - apparently the document was "blindly translated" from english specs without making any corrections (here in europe we have 220v). That + the notoriety of the ISP i am using can explain why it works completely out of any known specs.
5. Never used anything like that myself only used setups like Router>Switch>AP>Switch

If you just want to use 1 of the routers as an access point it could work by reassigning the address of one router.

6 . Well thats the nature of ADSL if you saturate too much of one lane it will effect the other including raising ping.
 

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Tank destroyer and a god
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2,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So now I have the newer router.

Despite specifics given by the ISP I have set VDSL2 specifics and it works. (Ping went from 26 to 13 ms), Transfer rates went just slightly better to 5,76mbit.

However download above 2,30mbit causes ping to go down to 100+ ms. Is this phenomenon even explained somehow? No packet losses...
 

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Tank destroyer and a god
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2,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Hello guys,

Sorry for the necro, but no need to start new topic. Skip the spoiler if you are not interested in techincal stuff, and want just to reply to my question.
ISP changed some things, and I explored the possibilites of the DSL router i have bit deeper.

Some of the issues with lost packets/CRC issues over the link were attributed to unstable connection. Due some reason the automatic features identified best correction at -5 db with Signal-noise margin at 11,2db which at first point looks great.

Problem was that automatics got cheated. Data channels on frequencies from 1.1khz to 2,2khz were below noise level. So when ADSL2+ link tried to transfer more data, it failed and packets were damaged during transmission. So I manually changed the correction to +6db. Link at ADSL2+ is now stable even without any unecessry tricks such as Seamless Data Rate.

However...
Even transfers up to 730kb/s which is maximum for the link are not damaging ping that much (about 90ms), specifically youtube transfers are causing ping to drop to 300+. Similar services such as Twitch does not have such issues.

Any ideas?
 

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Tank destroyer and a god
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2,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylzer View Post

6 . Well thats the nature of ADSL if you saturate too much of one lane it will effect the other including raising ping.
Ok. I fixed physical layer of DSL line.

1. I set it to ADSL2.
ADSL2+ uses higher frequencies, and those dont have proper signal strenght. Signal strenght does not go below 20db in worst case (highest frequency).

2. Manual signal strenght correction
+2 DB.

With this setting the network gives 7000kbit rate and 7800kbit max rate. Thats not bad for a line which is 2.5-3.5km long.

3. Ping
To first device on ISP is 20-23 ms.

4. One persisting issue: Lag spikes.
Line congestion isnt really the issue. if downloading large files, watching HQ video, if the transfer is constan ping is only slightly increased (by 5-10ms).

But if watching video (mainly from YT), ping is OK while the transfer remains constant, but when buffer on my browser is full (1 minute), download pauses. Ping is still ok. But then download starts again, and ping to 1st ISP device may get above 400ms. Ping to router remains >1.

CPU, and RAM on router remains OK.

5. Virtual layers.
i read a don of varioous documentation regarding internal working of ADSL connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_protocol_over_Ethernet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_contract

Did some optimizations (lesser MTU size, due much of the overhead), different settings for Traffic contract. Even when I received better transfer rates, the latency spike problem persisted.
 
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