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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there everyone,

I thought to create a new thread for this, simply because I have been appalled by what Antec are offering with their 920 Kühler.

I've always wondered why my temps were so high, and more so at the clock speed and voltage that I'm at, couldn't quite correlate the two together.

I thus got some Arctic Silver cleaner:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm

And had a 2 year old tube of Arctic MX-2 lying around:
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/detail?sArticle=82.%3F

I have to say the installation of the Antec 920 is an absolute pain - for a guide on that go here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1330317/antec-k-hler-h2o-920-a-full-installation-guide

I again got frustrated mounting the Antec 920 back on.

Anyway, with that aside, here are the results, and pictures:

First of all the temps of an IBT run whilst having the stock antec paste (expected results):



Secondly, the temps of an IBT run, whilst having the ARCTIC MX-2 paste:



As you can see there is a difference between the two - that might not seem like a huge difference for some, but for me that's a huge difference, as I'm not hitting the 90's.

My processor is the I7 3770K (in the UK that's a £255 processor).
Why I'm I telling you this?
Simple - the antec wasn't smooth and because of it, it has chipped the IHS of my I7 3770K. Now I don't think it is something to be greatly worried about, as even the IHS could do with some sanding, and not affect performance. But why should a liquid cooler, design for processors, CHIP my darn £255 CPU!?

The antec 920 seems to have been "laced" with no smooth surface. There is an actual ENGRAVED mark on the Antec 920 cooler.
Something I would have NEVER noticed, simply due to the thermal paste being over it. This, alongside the pressure it is pressed against the CPU, is what has caused the chip.

Here's the dried up paste on the cooler:





A cleaned Antec cooler unit - notice the scratch on it:




Here's my CPU - with no paste on it - no I haven't cleaned at this point, just lifted the Antec off it. Almost non-existent thermal paste!





A nice and clean CPU, but notice the chip on the IHS:




Putting the Arctic cleaning to apply paste to the CPU:



MX-2 thermal paste - line method used - vertical line down the die:




After a lot of struggle, the Antec 920 seated back in:




Conclusion:
BEWARE and make sure you check the surface of the Antec 920.
I'm no pro, nor someone with a heck load of experience, but I know my way around a few things, and hope this post has given some insight, to what's regarded as one of the best liquid coolers on the market.
In all honesty, I now regret not spending an extra few pounds and getting the Corsair H100i (I have a LOT of corsair parts in my computer lol)
 

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That had you "steaming"? Overreact much? I don't see what the big deal is. It's a tiny cosmetic flaw on something you never see.
 

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well that kinda surface flaw is a *****, but unless its causing the antec to sit too far from the IHS you probably don't need to worry about it.

you actually want as little thermal interface material in there as possible. it should be literally just enough to cover the die and thin as ****. its a poorer thermal conductor than metal, but because the metal has a "rough surface" the TIM just fills the gaps where there's no actualy contact.
http://koolance.com/image/content_pages/cooling101/surface_gaps.gif
these air gaps, and they are microscopic.

looking at the antec, i'd say there was probably too much paste on there from stock.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/V1/images/ttv1-27.jpg
this is about the amount of spread you actually need on a cpu, not the caked on layer you had.
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post

That had you "steaming"? Overreact much? I don't see what the big deal is. It's a tiny cosmetic flaw on something you never see.
How do you want me to reply to this?
Yeah I was steaming as it has damaged something I bought.
Would you like buying a brand new car, then finding out the wheels are being damaged by a sticking out arch?

Do as you please, in that respect - each to their own
thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by YowZ View Post

well that kinda surface flaw is a *****, but unless its causing the antec to sit too far from the IHS you probably don't need to worry about it.

you actually want as little thermal interface material in there as possible. it should be literally just enough to cover the die and thin as ****. its a poorer thermal conductor than metal, but because the metal has a "rough surface" the TIM just fills the gaps where there's no actualy contact.
http://koolance.com/image/content_pages/cooling101/surface_gaps.gif
these air gaps, and they are microscopic.

looking at the antec, i'd say there was probably too much paste on there from stock.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/V1/images/ttv1-27.jpg
this is about the amount of spread you actually need on a cpu, not the caked on layer you had.
Cheers for the reply man!
smile.gif

I might get it out soon again anyway, to see how it spread.

I was suggested the "dot method" by a few, and the line method by others.
Seeing as Arctic suggested the line method, that's what I followed for my re-application
smile.gif
!
 

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when my temps start getting worse i will check it out
 

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The difference is if a wheel well was tearing up my tire, I would see it and it would warrant fixing as it could cause a blowout or a leak. This is equivalent to a flawed paint job on a brake caliper.
 

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Thanks for this dubbed!!! I was JUST about to pick this thing up, your Facebook post saved me
biggrin.gif
I will go with the corsiair h100i, few quid more expensive but well worth it. You are not the only person to experience such a thing. I googled this and it seems that it isn't rare, corsair all the way xD thanks again even though a tiny chip won't harm performance or the CPU its self, I don't want a £240 CPU with a damn chip...
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintball23456 View Post

Thanks for this dubbed!!! I was JUST about to pick this thing up, your Facebook post saved me
biggrin.gif
I will go with the corsiair h100i, few quid more expensive but well worth it. You are not the only person to experience such a thing. I googled this and it seems that it isn't rare, corsair all the way xD thanks again even though a tiny chip won't harm performance or the CPU its self, I don't want a £240 CPU with a damn chip...
Amen George!
Enjoy your Corsair H100i!

And yeah this is pretty rare - thus why i thought to put it.
Some people seem to be defending Antec a bit too much though
rolleyes.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

Amen George!
Enjoy your Corsair H100i!

And yeah this is pretty rare - thus why i thought to put it.
Some people seem to be defending Antec a bit too much though
rolleyes.gif
. HOW U KNOW MY NAME XDDD sometimes its just better to spend a bit extra and get a much better cooler. Antec coolers aren't really closs to the best, the best is custom. But second to that are corsiars coolers. And just for around £10 extra you could of got a better cooler
smile.gif
but hey, we all make mistakes.
biggrin.gif
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintball23456 View Post

. HOW U KNOW MY NAME XDDD sometimes its just better to spend a bit extra and get a much better cooler. Antec coolers aren't really closs to the best, the best is custom. But second to that are corsiars coolers. And just for around £10 extra you could of got a better cooler
smile.gif
but hey, we all make mistakes.
biggrin.gif
haha
biggrin.gif
!
Well the Antec is very good, don't get me wrong - if it wasn't I would have sold it/returned it long ago.
It is just this, has put me off it.
 

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thats a noticable drop in temps and i would take any extra drop if i can get it , if i felt my temps were too high , i am not crazy about how this thing mounts either , back plate was a guessing game ,

i went with the 920 because it got good reviews, looked cool and seemed simple enough to install etc, and it had software to control it which i liked , compared to the corsair at the time didnt have it or you had to buy it extra which i think they give it to you now ,

if it wasnt such a pain to remount , i would change out the paste also after seeing that , but my temps are not that bad , i rather not touch anything now that i have it running nicely ,

in the future i may do it and at that time i may just delid and be done with it , i notice some people use different paste for the core when they delid and different paste on the cooler , is there a good paste you can use for both ?

when i got my parts , i ordered this paste just in case i needed something , would this do a good job if i ever change the paste or delid in the future ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002VFXFE/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

i remember this one from years ago , now i am not sure whats the best one to use etc,

if this 920 ever goes out or something goes wrong , best thing to do is get a real water setup , pump , block , rad and tubing - would work better , and easier to mount it if you ask me ,

takes a few extra items , little more money but you wont have any problems if done right
smile.gif
if i can do it , i am sure anyone can do it ,
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by expresso View Post

thats a noticable drop in temps and i would take any extra drop if i can get it , if i felt my temps were too high , i am not crazy about how this thing mounts either , back plate was a guessing game ,

i went with the 920 because it got good reviews, looked cool and seemed simple enough to install etc, and it had software to control it which i liked , compared to the corsair at the time didnt have it or you had to buy it extra which i think they give it to you now ,

if it wasnt such a pain to remount , i would change out the paste also after seeing that , but my temps are not that bad , i rather not touch anything now that i have it running nicely ,

in the future i may do it and at that time i may just delid and be done with it , i notice some people use different paste for the core when they delid and different paste on the cooler , is there a good paste you can use for both ?

when i got my parts , i ordered this paste just in case i needed something , would this do a good job if i ever change the paste or delid in the future ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002VFXFE/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

i remember this one from years ago , now i am not sure whats the best one to use etc,

if this 920 ever goes out or something goes wrong , best thing to do is get a real water setup , pump , block , rad and tubing - would work better , and easier to mount it if you ask me ,

takes a few extra items , little more money but you wont have any problems if done right
smile.gif
if i can do it , i am sure anyone can do it ,
Hey man!
Yeah if it ain't broke don't fix it
biggrin.gif
!

As for the arctic - that's a great paste, but use that ONLY ON the CPU (between 920 and CPU) - thus over the IHS.
However for within the IHS - it is greatly recommended, or even forced that, if you want to see a long term benefit over the months to come, you better use:
Coollabs liquid PRO
or
Coollabs liquid ULTRA

Ultra is the "updated version" of pro, and is easier to remove.
However temps have been noted to be better using the PRO version.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

Hey man!
Yeah if it ain't broke don't fix it
biggrin.gif
!

As for the arctic - that's a great paste, but use that ONLY ON the CPU (between 920 and CPU) - thus over the IHS.
However for within the IHS - it is greatly recommended, or even forced that, if you want to see a long term benefit over the months to come, you better use:
Coollabs liquid PRO
or
Coollabs liquid ULTRA

Ultra is the "updated version" of pro, and is easier to remove.
However temps have been noted to be better using the PRO version.
if i am end up doing that , i would want the best one for lowest temps, so Pro then ? not looking to do it now anyway but good to know ,

for now i am tying to get it stable with a offset and not able to just yet , i am running +55 or +60 offset now , its been crashing prime for the past half dozen times , i was working my way lower just to see how low i can go , but when i followed your instructions to find my offset ,

it comes up with a +65 is what i should have , but i noticed with that offset CPUID shows a higher vcore on load then i had before the offset which was 1.350 V i was trying to get my offset to show this Vcore when on load and i did it with a lower offset than +65 and prime dosnt like it going to try it again with LLC on Extreme with lower offset again to see how that works out - worst case i go right back to my 4.7 with no offset , and not worry about it
smile.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

Hey man!
Yeah if it ain't broke don't fix it
biggrin.gif
!

As for the arctic - that's a great paste, but use that ONLY ON the CPU (between 920 and CPU) - thus over the IHS.
However for within the IHS - it is greatly recommended, or even forced that, if you want to see a long term benefit over the months to come, you better use:
Coollabs liquid PRO
or
Coollabs liquid ULTRA

Ultra is the "updated version" of pro, and is easier to remove.
However temps have been noted to be better using the PRO version.
ok thanks , i wonder why Pro would be better with temps ?

thats what we are all looking for is low temps
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

Cheers for the reply man!
smile.gif

I might get it out soon again anyway, to see how it spread.

I was suggested the "dot method" by a few, and the line method by others.
Seeing as Arctic suggested the line method, that's what I followed for my re-application
smile.gif
!
no problem bro.
I would always recommend the advice of a reputable manufacturer who has had the opportunity to test so good call there. you only actually need about as much as a grain of rice to get a good mount. but the longer line is safer fo'sho!
 

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Dubbed, first off that scratch is not anything to worry about and the "chip" in the IHS is laughable. It really is such a non issue, I'm boggled that you're bothered by it.

Now let's do a bit of thinking as to what might of happened here.
The 920 block is pure copper, a rather soft metal. The Intel IHS is also copper, but it's is plated with nickel which gives it corrosion resistance and also a bit more hardness.
It's implausible that the Antec block could "chip" the Intel IHS.

I'll tell you what sounds more plausible though, and would seem to match your pictures too.
And that is it looks like maybe some dust particle, a piece of sand maybe or some such, got between the block and the IHS during installation.
Even the semicircular scratch seems logical, with the twisting motion that is sometimes used when applying and or removing heatsinks.

To bring it all home, this is a non issue and really not worth "A shocking discovery."
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by plywood99 View Post

Dubbed, first off that scratch is not anything to worry about and the "chip" in the IHS is laughable. It really is such a non issue, I'm boggled that you're bothered by it.

Now let's do a bit of thinking as to what might of happened here.
The 920 block is pure copper, a rather soft metal. The Intel IHS is also copper, but it's is plated with nickel which gives it corrosion resistance and also a bit more hardness.
It's implausible that the Antec block could "chip" the Intel IHS.

I'll tell you what sounds more plausible though, and would seem to match your pictures too.
And that is it looks like maybe some dust particle, a piece of sand maybe or some such, got between the block and the IHS during installation.
Even the semicircular scratch seems logical, with the twisting motion that is sometimes used when applying and or removing heatsinks.

To bring it all home, this is a non issue and really not worth "A shocking discovery."
Well, could well be - but I remember my installation quite well - I made sure that it was clean (the IHS).
I can't quite describe it, but it literally looks like someone has either put a steel nail and scratched the antec - the force required to do such a scratch I doubt would have been caused by the twisting.
More so, if that was the case, then why didn't the I7, also have a similar scratch on it.

I'm bothered about it, simply because I didn't expect something brand new to damage such an expensive part of my rig - in fact the i7 is the most expensive part.
Now for it not actually mattering - sure, it isn't something to be greatly worried about, as people do sand or what not - but again, why should ANY damage, be it minimal or severe be caused?

On a final note:
A while ago, I did some lathing for design technology, back at school. That round-ish look on the antec, reminds me greatly of a worked/missed lathe. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

As for the title- it seems that quite a few of you are being "worked up" about it - that makes me laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YowZ View Post

no problem bro.
I would always recommend the advice of a reputable manufacturer who has had the opportunity to test so good call there. you only actually need about as much as a grain of rice to get a good mount. but the longer line is safer fo'sho!
Cheers again for the reply bro!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

Well, could well be - but I remember my installation quite well - I made sure that it was clean (the IHS).
I can't quite describe it, but it literally looks like someone has either put a steel nail and scratched the antec - the force required to do such a scratch I doubt would have been caused by the twisting.
More so, if that was the case, then why didn't the I7, also have a similar scratch on it.

1) I'm bothered about it, simply because I didn't expect something brand new to damage such an expensive part of my rig - in fact the i7 is the most expensive part.
Now for it not actually mattering - sure, it isn't something to be greatly worried about, as people do sand or what not - but again, why should ANY damage, be it minimal or severe be caused?

On a final note:
A while ago, I did some lathing for design technology, back at school. That round-ish look on the antec, reminds me greatly of a worked/missed lathe. I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

2) As for the title- it seems that quite a few of you are being "worked up" about it - that makes me laugh.
1) No proof provided that the Antec unit did this, only assumptions.
2) Not worked up at all. Simply replying reasonable to what appears to be a sensationalistic journalist's ploy to garner hits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by plywood99 View Post

1) No proof provided that the Antec unit did this, only assumptions.
2) Not worked up at all. Simply replying reasonable to what appears to be a sensationalistic journalist's ploy to garner hits.
Firstly I don't appreciate your comments.
To summarize: you're acting as if you put your finger across the Antec to actually feel the groove it had.
And finally no, I'm not seeking attention. Just bringing it to people's attention.
 

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Wait hang on.
Where is the chip on the CPU?
And you do know the stock Antec paste isn't really bad, 10'c difference means that you applied it wrongly, very wrongly (probably both letting air-bubbles into the gap between the CPU and copper of the 920's base as well as too much paste. The air bubbles are a result of re-applying the cooler multiple times with the same TIM within a short period of time (ie, if you set it down, but didn't fully screw it in because it wasn't aligned properly and then removing it, placing it down again and seating it. etc.)

And how did you not know that a backplate went on the back of the motherboard? I mean, come on. There are even instructions in the AIO Antec 920 kit!

Even 80'c temps are really high for a AOIC unit like this, heck I only got ~55-60'c on my TRU120!
You must have no applied enough pressure, mounted it incorrectly otherwise or done something wrong with the TIM.

Also your application of the TIM is poor. You do not need to do that line since you are not using a Core 2 Quad. The line TIM application became popular because of the linear cores of the Core 2 Quad (ie, there were 2x2core 'modules', if you will, running down the center of the IHS). Original Core iX and above just need a smaller than pea-sized dot in the middle of the IHS.
Doing this will not only increase your temperatures (even then, only slightly), but also save you TIM and money.

The idea of TIM is not to be a layer between the 2 metals, but to fill in any air between them. So there should be metal touching metal, but not air touching metal. As air is an insulator. Basically this (extreme example):

contactarea.jpg


See how the TIM bridges the gaps? But that there is still the CPU heatsink touching the CPU IHS?
That's how you want it to be.

If you want to achieve lower temps, I would look at applying the cooler correctly. Using the correct amount of TIM, making sure that all your fans are spinning up accordingly, make sure you have good airflow and make sure that you have no kinks etc. in the tubing of the Antec 920.
 
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