[Masked]

Source
Quote:

Last year, his group famously demonstrated that they could use a 3D-printed "lower" for an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle-but the gun failed after six rounds. Now, after some re-tooling, Defense Distributed has shown that it has fixed the design flaws and can seemingly fire for quite awhile. (The AR-15 is the civilian version of the military M16 rifle.)

The "lower," or lower receiver part of a firearm, is the crucial part that contains all the gun's operating parts, including the trigger group, and the magazine port. (Under American law, the lower is what's defined as the firearm itself.) The AR is designed to be modular, meaning it can receive different types of "uppers" (barrels) as well as different-sized magazines.

"This is the first publicly printed AR lower demonstrated to withstand a large volume of .223 without structural degradation or failure," Wilson wrote on Wednesday. "The actual count was 660+ on day 1 with the SLA lower. The test ended when we ran out of ammunition, but this lower could easily withstand 1,000 rounds."

So last year, when this topic was originally posted -- I remember saying the technology already existed one just had to change the plastics used...As did a few others ~ So, that's now been proven a fact...

I recall being told I was "Wrong" borderline an "idiot"...Among other things...Which, once again is interesting considering they've proven it beyond possible...

These same uppers are capable of head pressures at up to .408's now considering the density of the material.

Because you're prototyping the part, there is no sereal # needed and it's perfectly legal as long as you qualify to own a firearm to begin with...

 

[Rickles]

I have yet to meet a gun that had any inherent ill intent.

And I have met my fair share of guns.

Not sure why this is news worthy...

 

[WR6133]

I remember the thread last year and points still stand

1 - Too expensive so pointless

2 - Cheaper and easier to produce old fashioned SMG's

3 - Only the lower has been 3d printed so again this is not a viable 3D printed weapon

The entire article is scare mongering read this part
Quote:

I just made an AK-47 magazine-I've got it printing as we speak

Now anyone with half an Iota of sense knows whatever the hell he prints will still need other (metal) parts he is just printing the body. The article is aimed to cause controversy amongst the uninformed or serve as a soapbox for those with an agenda.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WR6133

I remember the thread last year and points still stand

1 - Too expensive so pointless

2 - Cheaper and easier to produce old fashioned SMG's

3 - Only the lower has been 3d printed so again this is not a viable 3D printed weapon

The entire article is scare mongering read this part
Now anyone with half an Iota of sense knows whatever the hell he prints will still need other (metal) parts he is just printing the body. The article is aimed to cause controversy amongst the uninformed or serve as a soapbox for those with an agenda.

The printer that can be used for this project costs $1500.

It's the resin that matters. -- The resin costs about $150/per.

So, I don't quite understand where you're all getting that this is too expensive...last time I checked, $1500 was less then most Ar-10's...

Once again, it would be nice if any of you read the article...

 

[Churminess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WR6133

Now anyone with half an Iota of sense knows whatever the hell he prints will still need other (metal) parts he is just printing the body. The article is aimed to cause controversy amongst the uninformed or serve as a soapbox for those with an agenda.

I'm British and therefore don't know jack about firearms, but I'm under the impression that you can get a hold of all the other metal parts easily, the lower is the part that you need a license to own or buy?

EDIT: Yep
Quote:

Under American law, the lower is what's defined as the firearm itself.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churminess

I'm British and therefore don't know jack about firearms, but I'm under the impression that you can get a hold of all the other metal parts easily, the lower is the part that you need a license to own or buy?

That is correct.

Unless you're prototyping then you don't really need anything except that it's necessary you CAN legally own a firearm in the first place.

So you can't make a pistol but, you're within the bounds of the law if you made a Shotgun or a Rifle.

 

[pips]

Don't see what the big deal is. Qualifying gun owners can already buy the real thing for less than 1550 bucks. Also, am I missing something? Only the magazine and lower assembly is available for printing. The article tries to mislead you and say that the lower contains most the crucial parts of the rifle but clearly this is inaccurate. It contains the safety, trigger assembly, and magazine well. In my opinion the BCG alone is at least as important as all those parts, let alone the barrel and charging handle.

If you are able to afford a whole upper assembly of an ar 15, I'm pretty sure you would also be willing to spend the additional 100 bucks or so to get a lower assembly that will be much more reliable than a 3-D printed one.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pips

Don't see what the big deal is. Qualifying gun owners can already buy the real thing for less than 1550 bucks. Also, am I missing something? Only the magazine and lower assembly is available for printing. The article tries to mislead you and say that the lower contains most the crucial parts of the rifle but clearly this is inaccurate. It contains the safety, trigger assembly, and magazine well. In my opinion the BCG alone is at least as important as all those parts, let alone the barrel and charging handle.

If you are able to afford a whole upper assembly of an ar 15, I'm pretty sure you would also be willing to spend the additional 100 bucks or so to get a lower assembly that will be much more reliable than a 3-D printed one.

Actually, in the current panic, you really can't but, that's okay...I don't expect computer enthusiasts to know/understand that.

You're also incorrect.

The lower is the only part of a rifle you need to have REGISTERED. -- You can buy the rest, willy nilly.

The article is making the point that you could obtain this firearm and/or a pistol without the need to register the weapon what-so-ever.

Point in fact, before the panic, you could buy 1/2 the uppers on the market for less then $700...Throw on a lower and a LPK, Stock...You've got a rifle for less then 1k out the door with an infinite set of lowers...and mags...Or pistol frames...

 

[BBEG]

No Masked, you were called an idiot for a lot of other things you said, to include the notion of printing the action, buying barrels in nonstandard calibers for $10, and constructing an untraceable AR that 'one shot, one kills' from a mile out.

The lower receiver experiences almost no stress during firing. Only the front pivot pin area experiences any real stress. The retention pin (or whatever the pin is called that holds the fire control group in place) and selector switch can eat into the receiver if tolerances are off but that is an easy fix.

Still nothing to be impressed about.

Now, printing magazines on the other hand... That's a few kinds of awesome. They won't be Pmags, but if treated like the disposable mags the GI aluminum ones were designed to be they could still be very awesome for the civilian consumer.

 

[GingerJohn]

3D printing is a great idea, I just wish people would focus on the more noble uses for it rather than trying to find a way to bypass the law and arm themselves.

Slightly off topic but what are the restrictons on buying amunition in the US?

If I were looking at this from a firearms control point of view I would be thinking - fine, so they can get the weapon, let's restrict the ability to use it. Either that or require a license to buy a barrel. That will hold off until you can 3D print in metal at home.

Oh, and to counter the "blahblahblah you can steal the ammo", true, but if you are going to steal the ammo you might as well steal the gun too.

 

[Minnetonka16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masked

The printer that can be used for this project costs $1500.

It's the resin that matters. -- The resin costs about $150/per.

So, I don't quite understand where you're all getting that this is too expensive...last time I checked, $1500 was less then most Ar-10's...

Once again, it would be nice if any of you read the article...

Plenty of articles have said they've found a cure for cancer. Does that mean it's true? If so, should I write an article about how I can make people live forever, so it will be true?

 

[WR6133]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churminess

I'm British and therefore don't know jack about firearms, but I'm under the impression that you can get a hold of all the other metal parts easily, the lower is the part that you need a license to own or buy?

EDIT: Yep

The article is decitful it aims to make uninformed people think the guy is printing AK47 magazines he is not at best he makes the body when he needs all the parts pictured here not just the body



Now as those things literally cost peanuts complete and new still in grease why on earth spend a packet printing the bodies and then having to find/make all the other parts?
Quote:

The printer that can be used for this project costs $1500.

It's the resin that matters. -- The resin costs about $150/per.

So, I don't quite understand where you're all getting that this is too expensive...last time I checked, $1500 was less then most Ar-10's...

Once again, it would be nice if any of you read the article...

I read the article I wonder if you did. The lower was made on a $30000 printer the guy speculated it could be done on a cheaper printer but as his attempt at a cheapy last year failed without a working model from a cheaper printer he is guessing.

Also $150 in material is alot for just a lower.... thats not a rifle you still need all the rest, so again whats the point in the big drama over this, no criminal in the world is going to 3d print a single part of a weapon, it is much easier to illegally get an entire (and proven) weapon.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBEG

No Masked, you were called an idiot for a lot of other things you said, to include the notion of printing the action, buying barrels in nonstandard calibers for $10, and constructing an untraceable AR that 'one shot, one kills' from a mile out.

The lower receiver experiences almost no stress during firing. Only the front pivot pin area experiences any real stress. The retention pin (or whatever the pin is called that holds the fire control group in place) and selector switch can eat into the receiver if tolerances are off but that is an easy fix.

Still nothing to be impressed about.

Now, printing magazines on the other hand... That's a few kinds of awesome. They won't be Pmags, but if treated like the disposable mags the GI aluminum ones were designed to be they could still be very awesome for the civilian consumer.

Actually, in an article coming the next few weeks, new resins have the ability to withstand head pressures of up to .408's which he mentions so, we're no longer at a mile considering .408s with custom powder and annealed bullets can now hit 1.5+ miles.

I also said you only needed 1 shot.

It's the REAR pivot pin that experiences the stress.

Magpul is actually using almost the same resin in their moldings so, just to give an idea of what the polymer is.

They're also about to leave Colorado so, it would be nice to have a supply during their hiatus.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WR6133

The article is decitful it aims to make uninformed people think the guy is printing AK47 magazines he is not at best he makes the body when he needs all the parts pictured here not just the body



Now as those things literally cost peanuts complete and new still in grease why on earth spend a packet printing the bodies and then having to find/make all the other parts?
I read the article I wonder if you did. The lower was made on a $30000 printer the guy speculated it could be done on a cheaper printer but as his attempt at a cheapy last year failed without a working model from a cheaper printer he is guessing.

Also $150 in material is alot for just a lower.... thats not a rifle you still need all the rest, so again whats the point in the big drama over this, no criminal in the world is going to 3d print a single part of a weapon, it is much easier to illegally get an entire (and proven) weapon.

Quote:

The law student said that anyone with the same type of 3D printer ("SLA resin and P400 ABS on a used Dimension") could replicate his efforts with "9 to 12 hours" of print time, and "$150 to $200" in parts, adding that "we've proven that you can build one for $50," presuming the builder is using lower quality materials. (Dimensions typically sell in the $30,000 range-but Wilson says his results could be duplicated using the less-expensive Ultimaker ($1500) or Reprap."

Ultimaker and Repraps are 2 commercially available 3d printers for less then $1,000.

It's the resin that really matters which can be had for @ $150-200 per lower.

Also, I don't know about you but, registration is a big deal...The ability to make a firearm that's unregistered is priceless to some people.

 

[Rickles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masked

Actually, in the current panic, you really can't but, that's okay...I don't expect computer enthusiasts to know/understand that.

You're also incorrect.

The lower is the only part of a rifle you need to have REGISTERED. -- You can buy the rest, willy nilly.

The article is making the point that you could obtain this firearm and/or a pistol without the need to register the weapon what-so-ever.

Point in fact, before the panic, you could buy 1/2 the uppers on the market for less then $700...Throw on a lower and a LPK, Stock...You've got a rifle for less then 1k out the door with an infinite set of lowers...and mags...Or pistol frames...

You could also legally make your own lower via conventional methods. I really see no point to why this is news worthy. You can print a sub par lower to a rifle that needs a high level of maintenance that has a maximum tested durability of less then 1000 rounds, or you could buy a decent lower.

I really don't see this material standing up to more than a handful of pistol rounds. In a semi you would just have to much impact, heat and friction and in a revolver you would just melt the throat.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Masked

Ultimaker and Repraps are 2 commercially available 3d printers for less then $1,000.

It's the resin that really matters which can be had for @ $150-200 per lower.

Also, I don't know about you but, registration is a big deal...The ability to make a firearm that's unregistered is priceless to some people.

To who, criminals??? Do you honestly think they care if the gun is registered or not?

 

[Rbby258]

why do people think he printed the gun to save money? he printed it because he can and no one else had also if you had a 3d printer / access to one you can probably make the body for $10

 

[pcfoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickles

I have yet to meet a gun that had any inherent ill intent

Guns are primarily made to kill.
Assault guns and most pistols are made to kill or incapacitate people.

Of course you've met "no guns with an inherent ill intent", that's not the gun's quality, that's most likely the makers quality and possibly the user's quality.

Making such "empty statements" is pointless. It is the same as saying: "i've never met a hammer with the inherent intention to hammer down nails"....yeah, hammers have no will or presuppositions, but are build with clear intentions on behalf of their designers.

Claymores were build to slice people, warhammers to break skulls, assault weapons to shoot people.
You don't go to the store to get an assault rifle, having no wet dreams of shooting "the bad guys"...whoever says so, is lying to himself and others. You might never use it, you might use it for hunting, but that doesn't change the original scope of designing this gun to begin with, nor the ways those guns are imprinted to our minds.

1000s of americans go to training camps and shooting range programs that would qualify for "terrorist training camps" any day to US intelligence agencies' standards, where they get training and get pumped up with BS scenarios and imaginary threats that mandate them "being prepared".

That said, I consider assault weapons "safer" than the average 9mm pistol...
12-15 rounds are enough already, are cheaper and the gun itself much easier to conceal.

Oh, and I've been 3D printing stuff, in real life.
The average 3D print today is far too fragile to be used for a firearm's pieces, but give it a couple of decades, and affordable 3D metal printers will be available for all the wackos to build their arsenals easily...make sure you release the designs of hand grenades, bombs etc - they need more of that too.

 

[WR6133]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masked

Actually, in an article coming the next few weeks, new resins have the ability to withstand head pressures of up to .408's which he mentions so, we're no longer at a mile considering .408s with custom powder and annealed bullets can now hit 2/2.5 miles.

I also said you only needed 1 shot.

No just no

You don't assemble a weapon from a mismash of components slap on a sight and hit a target over a mile away with 1 shot (that being as per your implication the only shot that has been fired from the rifle). If you think thats doable you watch to many B-grade films.
Quote:

Also, I don't know about you but, registration is a big deal...The ability to make a firearm that's unregistered is priceless to some people.

This is what the black market is for stop scare mongering for somebody who in a previous thread attempts to appear pro-gun/gun-literate you don't half seem to spout some crazy nonsense.

Tell you what while you are 3D printing yourself a small arsenal, I'll download how to build a small nuclear weapon as the ability to produce a thermonuclear fireball is also priceless to some people.

 

[Masked]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickles

You could also legally make your own lower via conventional methods. I really see no point to why this is news worthy. You can print a sub par lower to a rifle that needs a high level of maintenance that has a maximum tested durability of less then 1000 rounds, or you could buy a decent lower.

I really don't see this material standing up to more than a handful of pistol rounds. In a semi you would just have to much impact, heat and friction and in a revolver you would just melt the throat.

Question: What do you have to do if you buy a conventional lower?

Answer: REGISTER IT.

Question: In the current political climate what is something the average Pro 2A gun owner does NOT want to do?

Answer: REGISTER IT.

...Do we get it now or?

 

[Huzzbutt]

Still sensationalist nonsense, I remember that last thread, OP's main point was the combination of Ballistic computer Cellphone programs and largecaliber weapons. Unless the treshold for making these becomes lower than aqcuiring illegal guns it's sensationalist nonsense.

A plumber with a some DIY experience and a vice could probably cobble together a KSP M/45 in the afternoon