[kithylin]

I haven't had an issue running higher mem clocks on my 3900x (previous cpu) or my 5800x3d.
This is 100% stable and I could go on the memory clocks if I was willing to up the SOC voltage (currently at 1V):

That is a lucky exception and you are not at all the normal. As a test I took my same 5800X + my same 4400 Mhz ram kit that will do 3800 Mhz together in my X570 system and tried them both in the X370 Taichi computer this past summer. I like to think I'm fairly experienced in tuning and overclocking Ryzen systems now. I've built, overclocked and tuned about 50-55 (I lost count) different Ryzen systems building them for other people so far. I could not get this X370 Taichi system to run the ram above 3333 Mhz with the same hardware that will do 3800 stable in my X570 system. So therefore I was trying to help folks stick to what's realistic for this platform and stick to ram kits that we know will work 100% for everyone instead of trying to "aim high" for something that may not work or may work 25% (or less) of the time. Steve at Gamer's Nexus even did a video testing the performance of ram with the Ryzen 5000 series processors and demonstrated that the difference in 3200 CL-14 ram and 3800 ram on a 5000 series chip is about +/- 7% to 10% anyway. 3200 CL-14 is fast enough for general usage for most people.

 

[jdub90]

@kithylin
I understand from your time with the board, that is what you experienced. All I was pointing out was you talked with such absolutes regarding memory speed limits on this board, and how that was not my experience.

"I don't yet know what the actual upper limits of X370 are but my X570 system with a 5800X has been running with it's ram at 3800 Mhz for over a year now and that will never be possible in any X370 system"

 

[kithylin]

@kithylin
I understand from your time with the board, that is what you experienced. All I was pointing out was you talked with such absolutes regarding memory speed limits on this board, and how that was not my experience.

"I don't yet know what the actual upper limits of X370 are but my X570 system with a 5800X has been running with it's ram at 3800 Mhz for over a year now and that will never be possible in any X370 system"

I'm trying my best not to give people misleading information. Just because you got it to work does not mean that it is common or that it will work for everyone. When dealing with other people spending their own money it is very bad for us to tell them information that may lead to them spending money on something they can't use or might lead to instability for them. It's much better to tell folks things that we know will work always for everyone. I was trying to intentionally not mention the possibility of any ram running faster than 3333 <-> 3400 for this board because then they might go out and try to buy a 3800 Mhz kit for this X370 board expecting it to work but then it would never work for them and that would be very bad.

 

[sane?]

I'm trying my best not to give people misleading information. Just because you got it to work does not mean that it is common or that it will work for everyone.

It's difficult to be sure (might be a good subject for a poll), but I get the impression that most people can get speeds north of 3600, albeit with reduced timings. Certainly I got 3733 on 4 sticks of cheapo RAM and a 5900x, and I thought to give it a go because I saw others reporting success. As with any 'overclocking' YMMV, and I think most people here understand that nothing is guaranteed as you push it - but worst case is you settle for less performance, unless you are one of those really unfortunate ones where it refuses to boot properly.

With the current low RAM prices, and reasonable B550 prices, its not as expensive/brave a decision as buying overpriced GPUs that might well see price 'realignments' as reality hits.

 

[kithylin]

It's difficult to be sure (might be a good subject for a poll), but I get the impression that most people can get speeds north of 3600, albeit with reduced timings. Certainly I got 3733 on 4 sticks of cheapo RAM and a 5900x, and I thought to give it a go because I saw others reporting success. As with any 'overclocking' YMMV, and I think most people here understand that nothing is guaranteed as you push it - but worst case is you settle for less performance, unless you are one of those really unfortunate ones where it refuses to boot properly.

With the current low RAM prices, and reasonable B550 prices, its not as expensive/brave a decision as buying overpriced GPUs that might well see price 'realignments' as reality hits.

Or people could just get a set of low latency CL-14 DDR4-3200, load XMP / DMCP profiles and F10 and go. It should always work 100% for all CPU's on this board with a current bios (even older processors) and then they wouldn't have to deal with overclocking or tuning timings or potential instability or any of that. It's fast enough for 90% of people using Ryzen and much easier to set up.

 

[walk-e]

I have a question for you @kithylin or anyone else. For my new CPU upgrade I also ordered a set of Ripjaws 2x16gb 3600 cl16 to replace my old sticks which are Tridentz 2x8gb 3200 cl14. Mostly cause I really wanted to get 32gb and it was a cheap option. Would it be better to order something like this to pair up with my old 3200 cl14 and have 4 dimms or just go with the 2 dimm Ripjaws and hope they can hit 3600 as advertised? I imagine if I need to I could at least run them at 3200. Also, would there be any problem running two slightly different pairs of TridentZs if I were to do the 4 dimm option? My original pair are nearly 5 years old at this point...

 

[sane?]

Or people could just get a set of low latency CL-14 DDR4-3200, load XMP / DMCP profiles and F10 and go.... and then they wouldn't have to deal with overclocking or tuning timings or .....

Looks at the top left corner.

Well yes, but ....

 

[kithylin]

I have a question for you @kithylin or anyone else. For my new CPU upgrade I also ordered a set of Ripjaws 2x16gb 3600 cl16 to replace my old sticks which are Tridentz 2x8gb 3200 cl14. Mostly cause I really wanted to get 32gb and it was a cheap option. Would it be better to order something like this to pair up with my old 3200 cl14 and have 4 dimms or just go with the 2 dimm Ripjaws and hope they can hit 3600 as advertised? I imagine if I need to I could at least run them at 3200. Also, would there be any problem running two slightly different pairs of TridentZs if I were to do the 4 dimm option? My original pair are nearly 5 years old at this point...

There could be a problem with running different sets of ram in the same computer, yes. It depends on what you do with your computer though. If you are just a gamer and play games and chat online and you are comfortable with the occasional blue screen or system crash and it wouldn't be the end of the world for you then you could try to get another set and put them together and hope it works. Many people have done this and have had good success with it in modern computers. But there is still the potential for an occasional random system crash / program crash / blue screen / etc. On the other side though if you use your computer for work or for your income (programming, code compiling, video editing, animation rendering, etc) and you absolutely need your computer to always work all the time with zero risk of ever crashing for any reason then you would probably want to go with the 2x16 GB matched kit instead.

Also just in general (and this applies to all AMD Ryzen systems from X370 to X570): The more memory sticks you have installed the slower the ram is going to go. Even if a Ryzen system is capable of running ram at 3600 Mhz it may only do it with 2 sticks of ram and probably would only do like 3400 or less with 4 sticks installed, even in an X570 system. That's more exaggerated in these older X370 platforms (they would run slower with 4 sticks). 3200 with 4 sticks in an X370 system should probably work fine but 3600 Mhz ram with 4 sticks in an X370 system probably wouldn't even turn on for example.

 

[quicknick]

Was hoping to receive the new memory today (Trident Z Neo 32GB 3600MHz CL18) but the couriers are in no hurry. Can't say the same about me, because this week I must sort things out and decide what to keep and what to return from the stuff I bought.

During the last few days I read as much as I could from this thread - not all of it, but I went through all ~120 pages written since Vermeer launched, and to my surprise discovered that it wasn't smooth sailing for quite a few users who reported problems very similar to mine. Here's some snippets: (sorry for not using the quote function, but I had saved everything of interest in a text file).

tried 3333, 3267, 3200, 3133. Nothing works, it feels like mobo is not even attempting to work with those, everything just locks up.
The soft power and reset buttons stop working, not responding to long holds as well.
Set 3000 again and it booted like it was nothing. (@garych)

guys stop flashing 7.03 with Zen3 its dangerous.Its not stable with 4 dimms even with 2133 goes black screen,fans spins and reset/power buttons are not working.It need hard power off and clear CMOS to get training memory again. (@Senniha)

Did you made any changes to the PBO section ? i.e PPT/EDC/TDC values ? when mine is set to auto it won't boot. (@wizardwiz)

All good but windows boot stucks before starting, anyway I can see the round icon rotating, just for 20 second. Then at reboot ask me to recover for not good shut down.
System start correctly in safe mode! (@barrubba)

Last one, right after the release of 7.10:
1st major bug: Setting IF on auto, fcks up booting in windows, gets to recovery console, but everything is messed up. Setting it manually on 1:1 (1900, in my case), works as it should. (@Dekaohtoura)

I also learned a lot about various BIOS versions incorrectly setting the secondary ram timings and also about (God forbid!) crossflashing with the X470TC firmware. Anyway, since the new ram didn't arrive today and I'm gonna be quite busy for the rest of the week, I started tinkering with the system as if the new ram was there. And although I had a (mental) list of things to try, I went straight to the most radical item, crossflashing. And it actually works, so my board is now a X470 Taichi with P5.10 BIOS. Dunno if I'm the first to report it, but I confirm that the 5900X works with this BIOS (there was much talk about Vermeer not working with previous X470TC BIOSes when crossflashed to the X370).

Problems? Yeah, still, but nothing of the magnitude I experienced with 7.10. Twice I wasn't able to enter UEFI setup, system just froze with the Asrock logo and "press F2 to enter" still displayed. This seems to be solved for good after a CMOS reset and now I can enter setup at will.

The CPU temperature is a bit on the high side, often hitting 90 degrees C under Prime95. For now I'll assume this is because I completely run out of MX-4 (ordered a new tube, should arrive together with the RAM) so I had to use a very dubious and old "Halzniye HY510".

Also, adding the other 2 DIMMs and setting the frequency to 3200 (XMP) and entering the correct secondary timings resulted in BSOD-ing even at 1.4 volts, so for now I'm at 3000MHz @1.35V. And while we're at this, how can I find out the proper values for ALL of the secondary timings? The BIOS (XMP information) reveals little, and Thaiphoon burner even less, compared to the plethora of settings available under "advanced dram timings" or how it's called...

 

[awdrifter]

Does the X370 Taichi support the 5800X3D now? Also does it allow BCLK overclock (it's supposed to have a second Hyper Clock Gen right)?

 

[jdub90]

Does the X370 Taichi support the 5800X3D now? Also does it allow BCLK overclock (it's supposed to have a second Hyper Clock Gen right)?

Yes I have it working (and so have others) without issue on the latest BIOS. BCLK works as well.

EDIT:
There is one bug I forgot to mention to others in this thread. The firmware appears to have a bug that ties VDDG CCD and VDDG IOD to SOC but if SOC exceeds 1V, pegs it at 1V. This really doesn't matter unless you are trying to hyper optimize the CPU as to reduce the power envelope as much as possible and/or free up margin within your power envelope for the cores.

 

[awdrifter]

Yes I have it working (and so have others) without issue on the latest BIOS. BCLK works as well.

EDIT:
There is one bug I forgot to mention to others in this thread. The firmware appears to have a bug that ties VDDG CCD and VDDG IOD to SOC but if SOC exceeds 1V, pegs it at 1V. This really doesn't matter unless you are trying to hyper optimize the CPU as to reduce the power envelope as much as possible and/or free up margin within your power envelope for the cores.

Thanks for the info. I see in your posts in this thread you were able to get the BLCK to 103 mhz, is that the max stable BCLK overclock on your setup?

 

[jdub90]

Thanks for the info. I see in your posts in this thread you were able to get the BLCK to 103 mhz, is that the max stable BCLK overclock on your setup?

I thought it was lol. Though I have thoroughly tested the system for single core, multi core and ram stability, I have noticed that waking the PC up from sleep... puts the computer in a less stable state. Recently I backed off the BCLK from 103, to 102 and the sleep issue/stability issue has went away. I have even upped the memory speed and single core boost to above what it was at BCLK @ 103 and it stable.

So I can't definitively say it was the BCLK @ 103 causing the instability....but it was the BCLK @ 103

Update:
There appears to be something in my configuration that causes this sleep issue/stability issue...and it exist with the BCLK @ 102 MHz as well (noticed upon more thorough testing). Switching to Hibernate, as opposed to Sleep fixed the issue. I will re-run the full suite of stability test I have already ran, after the PC wakes from Hibernate just to be 100% sure. So I am back running the BCLK @ 103 MHz. I'll report back with my results from the stability testing.

 

[awdrifter]

Thanks for the info. I was hoping with the Hyper Clock Gen it could hit up to 105-107 range, I guess AMD really locked down the overclocking now. I remember back in the Athlon X2 days I could increase the HTT Bus from 200 to 250 without much issue.

 

[jdub90]

Thanks for the info. I was hoping with the Hyper Clock Gen it could hit up to 105-107 range, I guess AMD really locked down the overclocking now. I remember back in the Athlon X2 days I could increase the HTT Bus from 200 to 250 without much issue.

It is because on this board the BCLK output, used for generating the "fundamental" 100 MHz reference clock, is also leveraged by other sub-systems like the PCIe bus (and by extension the chipset). So monkeying around with it for the sake of changing the CPU reference clock, changes it in those other places to too... which can cause those other sub-systems to become unstable. Typically 100-102 is nearly always stable, after that its a crap shoot.

There are some boards with separate clock generators/oscillators, that will only pipe the tunable "BCLK" output to the CPU.

 

[awdrifter]

I thought this board had a "Hyper Clock Engine" that was kinda like that?

There's a lot more to love about X370 Taichi, Hyper BCLK Engine II provides a wider range of frequencies and more precise clock waveforms to sustain extreme yet stable overclocking.

ASRock > News

asrock.com

 

[kithylin]

I thought this board had a "Hyper Clock Engine" that was kinda like that?

ASRock > News

asrock.com

I thought the same thing when I had read that.
They even have this on the website for the X370 Taichi:

Theoretically the BCLK should go up to 136 Mhz with this board as it looks like it has a dedicated clock generator. But apparently that's only for the 1000 series AMD processors and we can't use it for any other CPU's like the 2000 series, 3000 series or 4000 series for some reason. I don't understand it myself.

 

[awdrifter]

I thought the same thing when I had read that.
They even have this on the website for the X370 Taichi:
View attachment 2588454
Theoretically the BCLK should go up to 136 Mhz with this board as it looks like it has a dedicated clock generator. But apparently that's only for the 1000 series AMD processors and we can't use it for any other CPU's like the 2000 series, 3000 series or 4000 series for some reason. I don't understand it myself.

That's crappy of Asrock to limit this to Ryzen 1000 series only.

 

[kithylin]

That's crappy of Asrock to limit this to Ryzen 1000 series only.

That's the only thing I could possibly think of because if you see in the screenshot I captured above it said "Tested with the Ryzen 7 1700 CPU. Performance may vary with a different CPU." That's what led me to think it might be a 1000 series only something or other.

 

[awdrifter]

That's the only thing I could possibly think of because if you see in the screenshot I captured above it said "Tested with the Ryzen 7 1700 CPU. Performance may vary with a different CPU." That's what led me to think it might be a 1000 series only something or other.

That's probably their way of forcing people to buy the X570 Taichi if they want to oc.