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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,
I'm going for my first ever build. I ordered the wrong ram bought the 4000 mhz Team Xtreme and after a few visits round the web realized you would have to underclock it to get it stable. So scratch that, for the past 2 days I'm circling the web looking for a 64GB Ram for my computer (mostly Edits and Gaming, maybe some Animation).

So I've come across this ram, which has great timings, (just learnt about this) F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA but it's a 32GB version, I'm looking for a 64GB, could I and I'm sure I could buy 2 sets of these or would 32 x 2 be easier? On the Manual, it says not to mix ram even if it's the same make and model I'm lost as I thought that wouldn't be a problem.


Also there's a similar ram but the only difference is the Code the "Q" and "D".
F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNA & F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA (same as above).

Btw this was the bad boy I was after - F4-3600C14Q2-64GTZNB but can't see this under the G.Skill QVL nor on Asus.

Last question, can you still buy stuff that is not QVL for example I bought the Be Quiet Straight Power 11 850W but on the Asus Dark Hero QVL it has the PURE POWER 9 700W

Any guidance appreciated,
Thanks


*edit - Just realized why it's not compatible, it's 8 x 8 and Dark Hero has only 4 slots, Read much? LOL
 

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BL2K32G36C16U4B

This kit has worked flawlessly for me in 3 Ryzen builds at 3600. There is very little improvement above 3600.
 

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The motherboard does not give a damm which PSU you use or buy as long as its an ATX PSU made in the last 20 years they will work so even the idea of a QVL for PSU´s is stupid
With that being said the Straight Power 11 is not the greatest series and also note that they are multi rail which might become a problem if you are overclocking
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
BL2K32G36C16U4B
Oh, but i didn't even ask about this lol. I'm just re-reading my OP. Still I'll check it out, see what's different, ideally I wanted RGB.

Thanks

The motherboard does not give a damm which PSU you use or buy as long as its an ATX PSU made in the last 20 years they will work so even the idea of a QVL for PSU´s is stupid
With that being said the Straight Power 11 is not the greatest series and also note that they are multi rail which might become a problem if you are overclocking
Oh wow. I actually compared a few of them and bought this, now I got to return this. I liked the Quiet mode people have been talking about it, I wanted it to be quite like really quite. Any suggestions? I'm buying the Lian LI O11D XL or the Mini with Water-cooling so. I think i can get away with 750w but wanted the extra 50/100 to give me that in case it didn't cope. (btw it was the Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 850W Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Gold)

*edit - I actually saw good reviews on Amazon before buying this. What do you mean by Multi Rail, you mean the PSU?

thanks
 

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Oh, but i didn't even ask about this lol. I'm just re-reading my OP. Still I'll check it out, see what's different, ideally I wanted RGB.

Thanks



Oh wow. I actually compared a few of them and bought this, now I got to return this. I liked the Quiet mode people have been talking about it, I wanted it to be quite like really quite. Any suggestions? I'm buying the Lian LI O11D XL or the Mini with Water-cooling so. I think i can get away with 750w but wanted the extra 50/100 to give me that in case it didn't cope. (btw it was the Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 850W Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Gold)

*edit - I actually saw good reviews on Amazon before buying this. What do you mean by Multi Rail, you mean the PSU?

thanks

The Be Quiet Straight Power 11 has four 12v rails two with 21 amps and two with 26 amps which means 252 and 312 watts and if you use more than that on any of the 12v rails OCP will kick in and shut the PSU off

Its safer in theory but is in practice very annoying because its easier to overload one of the 12v rails and this is why almost everything other than Be Quiet is single rail and not multi rail

Also Be Quiet is somewhat overpriced for what they are and 850 watts is way overkill so you could have gotten someting much better for the same money or less like say a Super Flower Leadex III 750 watt which you can get on Newegg for $110 right now

A Seasonic Focus GX is $130 compared

The Be Quiet Straight Power 11 850 watts is $175 on Newegg which is an overpriced ripoff!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
that went over my head lmao well except the comparison in price that made sense. I didn't think it can shut your PSU if you overload too much. I mean are you talking about extreme cases of OC or even just tiny? I've never overclocked, so need to learn but it's the usual CPU, GPU & Ram.

To give you an idea, I got the MSI Suprim X 3090 and obviously the Dark Hero, goes with 5950X which I think for me comes into stock next week. It's my own fault at this point for not actually researching stuff and impulse buying it 😭

Also the other 2 you mentioned are they super quiet? I remember my computer like 15 years ago was like a Jet Engine.
 

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that went over my head lmao well except the comparison in price that made sense. I didn't think it can shut your PSU if you overload too much. I mean are you talking about extreme cases of OC or even just tiny? I've never overclocked, so need to learn but it's the usual CPU, GPU & Ram.

To give you an idea, I got the MSI Suprim X 3090 and obviously the Dark Hero, goes with 5950X which I think for me comes into stock next week. It's my own fault at this point for not actually researching stuff and impulse buying it 😭
Okey will i try and make it easy to understand your PC uses a few types of power what the PSU does it take power from the wall which is 110-240v and convert it to 12v 5v and 3,3v power

12v power is 90% of everything in your PC with 5v being USB and 3,3v being RAM or its the other way around for 5v and 3,3v i not 100% sure right now not that it matters you get the idea

If you have a single rail PSU it means that it has one 12v rail with power on it and that rail is what the PSU is rated so if a PSU claims to be say 650 watts but only has 500 watts its a 500 watt PSU not a 650 watt so you cant trust the wattage numbers without taking a look at how much power is on each rail many crappy PSU´s are rated for much higher numbers than what the 12v rail can do

Anyway what multi rail means is multiple 12v rails which is better in theory because if something shorts only that rail is affected

However it also means that since there is more than one 12v rail the power has to be split and with four rails of which half are rated for 252 watts and the other for 312 watts and if you have an RTX 3090 it can easly draw more power at high loads which means the PSU will have its OCP kick in and shut the whole system off every single time you put a high load on the GPU

In plain enlish the PSU is completely and utter useless because every time you want to use the GPU the PSU shuts the whole system off to protect itself
its not broken its made that way on purpose

You need to return the Be Quiet since you wont be able to use it and i recommend the Super Flower Leadex III from Newegg its a much better PSU its single rail and at $130 its $45 cheaper than the Be Quiet which is an overpriced ripoff

If the Be Quiet had two 12v rails instead of four it would never have been a problem 425 watts for the CPU and GPU each is more than enough power even for 5950x and an RTX 3090 but not four 12v rails with 252 and 312 watts

As for noise trust me everything else in the PC is going to be making way more noise than the PSU will so thats a rather moot point
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you so much for explaining this. I see what you're getting at now and I definitely don't want that every time I'm trying to game or something and got to lower the settings 😑
Yeah I'll check the Super Flower here (I should be fine with the 850 version of that) in the UK and get this thing returned.

Thanks again for an in-depth explanation 😁

*edit I found the ARGB version but only 750W (https://www.cclonline.com/product/3...dular-ATX-Power-Supply-Unit-in-Black/PSU1917/) it's the same company I bought the Be Quiet. I can't find the 850 and those i have are more expensive then what I bought on Amazon. can't bloody find this on eBay.
 

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If money is not a problem and you want something a little bit better you also got the Seasonic Prime GX / PX / TX which offer a 12 year warranty
They are not cheap but are some of the best units on the market if not THE best

That site you linked do have the GX and PX but not the TX and there is also a 1000 watt version unlike the Leadex III

Overclockers UK do have the TX besides the GX and PX

850 watt

1000 watt


If they are too much you got the cheaper Focus GX and PX

There is also the Fractal Design Ion Gold if you want another option
 

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So I've come across this ram, which has great timings, (just learnt about this) F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA but it's a 32GB version, I'm looking for a 64GB, could I and I'm sure I could buy 2 sets of these or would 32 x 2 be easier?
That is the best RGB memory available for Ryzen IMO, getting two is fine but you might need to relax the timings manually. 14-14-14-34 is hard with 2x dual rank DIMMs. I would get two of the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN if you wanted to run 64GB using DOCP timings. Two packs of F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA might be able to do 14-14-14-34, but you might need to relax to 14-15-15-35.

32GB DDR4 DIMMs are terrible, don't get any of them.

Also there's a similar ram but the only difference is the Code the "Q" and "D".
F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNA & F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA (same as above).
Like the F4-3600C14Q2-64GTZNB the F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNA is not an option. It is also 8GB DIMMs. "Q" means quad kit, "D" means dual kit, and "Q2" means octa kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
If money is not a problem and you want something a little bit better you also got the Seasonic Prime GX / PX / TX which offer a 12 year warranty
They are not cheap but are some of the best units on the market if not THE best

That site you linked do have the GX and PX but not the TX and there is also a 1000 watt version unlike the Leadex III

Overclockers UK do have the TX besides the GX and PX

850 watt

1000 watt


If they are too much you got the cheaper Focus GX and PX

There is also the Fractal Design Ion Gold if you want another option

Thanks for this, yes I don't mind spending upto £200 I don't mind spending a little to get 12 years warranty . However Which is the better one? I'm assuming the GX as that is on their own website i.e. last option. So TX being the cheapest, and PX being Mid?

I might get the fanless one though haha as long as any of these fit the Lian Li O11D XL or Mini.

What I don't understand when I tried to create a machine on
2518324


2518325


2518326


So while this shows I only need 750W, Seasonic choosing a similar config it's showing me I need 1300W.
2518327




I really appreciate you taking your time out to write this for me. I really do. Thank you so much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
That is the best RGB memory available for Ryzen IMO, getting two is fine but you might need to relax the timings manually. 14-14-14-34 is hard with 2x dual rank DIMMs. I would get two of the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN if you wanted to run 64GB using DOCP timings. Two packs of F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA might be able to do 14-14-14-34, but you might need to relax to 14-15-15-35.

32GB DDR4 DIMMs are terrible, don't get any of them.



Like the F4-3600C14Q2-64GTZNB the F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNA is not an option. It is also 8GB DIMMs. "Q" means quad kit, "D" means dual kit, and "Q2" means octa kit.


Then that's what I'll do "2 x of F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA" and see if I can learn to relax those timings. I mean of course If I don't do it, I'm not going to hurt the system am I? I know there's a software that can do it but it might not be straight away.

Regarding the 64GB version yeah I eventually found out it's 8 DIMMS so, there was no way. RJ Accent from Family Guy lol

Could I ask they 32GB DIMMS are terrible? If one wanted to go to 128GB on the Dark Horse then that's the only way I see is to get 4 x 32.



* EDIT - I can't find F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA anywhere. It's out of stock :( everywhere.


** EDIT 2 - I found this G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series, DDR4-3600 Mhz, CL14-32 GB Dual-Kit - Amazon.co.uk LOL 2 Months (which is the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN, I thought there was a TYPO in yours and missing the "A" at the end, I checked and the timings is 14-15-15-35 (you suggested I lower these) so wouldn't it be worth getting 2 packs of the TZN i.e the link above. I just want to make sure I understood correctly.
What's DOCP timings?
 

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Thanks for this, yes I don't mind spending upto £200 I don't mind spending a little to get 12 years warranty . However Which is the better one? I'm assuming the GX as that is on their own website i.e. last option. So TX being the cheapest, and PX being Mid?

I might get the fanless one though haha as long as any of these fit the Lian Li O11D XL or Mini.

I really appreciate you taking your time out to write this for me. I really do. Thank you so much.
The G in the names are for 80 plus gold efficiency the P is for Platinum and the T is for Titanium with Titanium being the best
What this means is how much or little power is being lost when it converts from wall 110-240v power to 12v 5v and 3,3v power

Say your PC uses 100 watt so if the PSU is 80 plus gold it needs to draw an exta 8 watts from the wall because it has 92% efficiency
With 80 plus Platinum its now 6 watts because of the efficiency is 94% and with 80 plus Titanium its now 4 watts because of the efficiency is 96%

If its 600 watts the numbers are now 48, 36 and 24 watts which means the extra you pay for Platinum or Titanium can be saved down the road on your power bill
Its going to take a few years but with a 12 year warranty you are going to save more than the extra you paid especially if the PC is under high loads for long periods of time

Another benefit of higher efficiency is the amount of heat generated because the lost power is turned to heat which means the fan has to work harder which means noise from the fan and since you said you wanted a quiet PSU you should consider paying the extra for a PX or TX besides what i said about power savings

Its a common myth and misconception that higher efficiency means its better quality its not the two are unrelated

Edit: just saw the edit in your post now and you can forget about what PSU calculators tell you they are way overstated both to cover their own butts in case you buy crap but also because they want to sell you a bigger PSU

Also note that the 870 QVO SSD you picked is god awful since it uses QLC NAND flash which in some use cases can be as slow or even slower than a hard drive
If you are going to buy an SSD and have OS on it you want something that uses TLC or MLC NAND flash since its way faster and much much more durable

The Seagate Barracuda are also awful by the way
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Alright brilliant, I'll get the TX then, for an extra $50/£50 is worth it.

Regarding the HDDs yes that was just a random selection I wanted to know if I cram pack the machine would it recommend me using a higher PSU or not. So I just selected the Biggest HDDs space and RPM, so I doubt I'll need a 1000W.

I bought the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB, I'll probably get another one of those but a 2TB or the the new P5 Corsairs x 2 I don't need much space as usually I only play 1 game (D2) the rest if just work.
 

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Then that's what I'll do "2 x of F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA" and see if I can learn to relax those timings. I mean of course If I don't do it, I'm not going to hurt the system am I? I know there's a software that can do it but it might not be straight away.
If you needed to relax the timings then it wouldn't be stable without doing it... so you would need to figure it out before you had a working computer. ;)

Could I ask they 32GB DIMMS are terrible? If one wanted to go to 128GB on the Dark Horse then that's the only way I see is to get 4 x 32.
They are simply very slow, the timings are very high. If you absolutely need 128GB for a specific workflow then they are fine, but if you want 128GB because bigger is better than do not do it! You system would be faster with 64GB of much better memory.

I have three extra 32 GB kits sitting here but I run 32 GB in my main system. Nothing I do benefits from more memory and I can run very aggressive timings with 2x 16GB DIMMs.

** EDIT 2 - I found this G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series, DDR4-3600 Mhz, CL14-32 GB Dual-Kit - Amazon.co.uk LOL 2 Months (which is the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN, I thought there was a TYPO in yours and missing the "A" at the end, I checked and the timings is 14-15-15-35 (you suggested I lower these) so wouldn't it be worth getting 2 packs of the TZN i.e the link above. I just want to make sure I understood correctly.
What's DOCP timings?
That is slower RAM, but it is more likely to work in a pair at the default XMP (AMD calls it DOCP) timings. Much more plug-n-play than the F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA is likely to be, but not as good if you were willing to tune the timings yourself. I don't want to overstate the performance benefits though, the difference between optimal timings on 64GB of GTZNA will not be significant compared to 64GB of GTZN, but GTZNA is likely possible to tune to slightly lower timings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
If you needed to relax the timings then it wouldn't be stable without doing it... so you would need to figure it out before you had a working computer. ;)
I didn't understand this. You previously said "I would get two of the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN if you wanted to run 64GB using DOCP timings. Two packs of F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA might be able to do 14-14-14-34, but you might need to relax to 14-15-15-35" so I'm saying if I didn't relax the timings straight away it would be just out of the box, that shouldn't make it unstable, unless of course I'm misunderstanding. I thought both could do the job F4-3600C14D-32GTZN & F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA. Sorry I'm dumb ☹
BTW I can only find F4-3600C14D-32GTZN, not the F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA .


Nothing I do benefits from more memory and I can run very aggressive timings with 2x 16GB DIMMs.
So you're saying even for just Gaming, and Video Editing, I don't need more than 32GB? If I look at my PC, I have 11-13GB in use.

That is slower RAM, but it is more likely to work in a pair at the default XMP (AMD calls it DOCP) timings. Much more plug-n-play than the F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA is likely to be, but not as good if you were willing to tune the timings yourself. I don't want to overstate the performance benefits though, the difference between optimal timings on 64GB of GTZNA will not be significant compared to 64GB of GTZN, but GTZNA is likely possible to tune to slightly lower timings.
How is it slow? The Mhz is the same as the NA which is 3600Mhz, the Timings is 14-15-15-35. I take it any RAM from G.Skill with "A" at the end if better?




Thanks
 

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so I'm saying if I didn't relax the timings straight away it would be just out of the box, that shouldn't make it unstable, unless of course I'm misunderstanding. I thought both could do the job F4-3600C14D-32GTZN & F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA.
When putting two DIMMs per channel in a daisy chain topology motherboard it is hard to run 14-14-14 in my experience, I needed to relax to 14-15-15 even when both sets individually can run 14-14-14. So if DOCP sets it to 14-15-15 it should be fine, but with F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA DOCP would set it to 14-14-14, which might not be fine.

Of course you could manually set it to 14-15-15, and you would have fundamentally better memory, though it is also more expensive and you might not be able to run it any faster due to running two DIMMs per channel. :p

So you're saying even for just Gaming, and Video Editing, I don't need more than 32GB? If I look at my PC, I have 11-13GB in use.
I never need more than 32 GB for my gaming, productivity, and video encoding needs. Video editing could need lots of memory, but it depends on what you are editing (resolution, number of clips on the timeline, etc.). Load up a big project and see if it starts getting near 32GB, if it is big enough 64GB or even more might be worth it.

How is it slow? The Mhz is the same as the NA which is 3600Mhz, the Timings is 14-15-15-35. I take it any RAM from G.Skill with "A" at the end if better?
It is slower in that it requires looser timings. I have compared some G.Skill 14-14-14 to 14-15-15 and I can run the 14-14-14 kit at lower timings than the 14-15-15 one. I have the non-RGB versions but I believe they are the same memory otherwise, F4-3600C14D-32GVKA v.s. F4-3600C14D-32GVK.

I am not sure what the "A" means. AMD optimized? Newer? Better Bin? :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
When putting two DIMMs per channel in a daisy chain topology motherboard it is hard to run 14-14-14 in my experience, I needed to relax to 14-15-15 even when both sets individually can run 14-14-14. So if DOCP sets it to 14-15-15 it should be fine, but with F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA DOCP would set it to 14-14-14, which might not be fine.

Of course you could manually set it to 14-15-15, and you would have fundamentally better memory, though it is also more expensive and you might not be able to run it any faster due to running two DIMMs per channel. :p
Didn't know DOCP, just googled it you need to enable in Bios, so then the Bios determines if it set to 14-15-15.
So I have memory like a Goldfish, going off this you're saying F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA would be more expensive so it's best to just get the F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (without the A) and loose the timings to 14-15-15. Right? Sorry If I'm getting you to repeat yourself.



It is slower in that it requires looser timings. I have compared some G.Skill 14-14-14 to 14-15-15 and I can run the 14-14-14 kit at lower timings than the 14-15-15 one.
Lower timings? like for example 13-14-14 or even lower?
Best I don't ask you more questions lol I'll just take your advise on which ram to get, and then I'll play with the timings, or leave as it is. I got a lot to learn.
 
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