[skupples]

they'll eventually standardize it, though supply would be a PITA too. Even once all cars use the same kinda batteries.

we've seen a few start ups fail, but it'll eventually work.

 

[GingerJohn]

It would be nice for consumers if they standardised on batteries, although a bit of a pain for designers. It would be very beneficial for commercial vehicles (trucks, forklifts, light aircraft, etc.), however for private vehicles like cars it would be a nightmare getting the various manufacturers to agree on a standard.

Remember how long it took for cell phone manufacturers to agree on using USB as a standard charging port (looking at you here, Nokia), and even then Apple went and did their own thing.

 

[skupples]

yep, I figure there'd be scales of battery as well.

the top dollar 700 mile battery, mid range 400 mile, and low and 200 mile unit.

the storage would be a nightmare, and likely less green in the long run, like most things that cater towards convenience.

 

[DNMock]

It would be nice for consumers if they standardised on batteries, although a bit of a pain for designers. It would be very beneficial for commercial vehicles (trucks, forklifts, light aircraft, etc.), however for private vehicles like cars it would be a nightmare getting the various manufacturers to agree on a standard.

Remember how long it took for cell phone manufacturers to agree on using USB as a standard charging port (looking at you here, Nokia), and even then Apple went and did their own thing.

It's gonna be all but impossible to get hot swappable universal batteries since the functions of the vehicles varies so much.

 

[GingerJohn]

It's gonna be all but impossible to get hot swappable universal batteries since the functions of the vehicles varies so much.

I don't mean commonality between different vehicle types (i.e. same battery for a car works in a plane), I was thinking more commonality within vehicle types, for example every HGV having the same battery package dimensions (note dimensions, not internals).

Standardisation can be difficult, but we do sometimes manage it. For example, AAA / AA/ C / D / PP3 (9V) battery sizes, and electrical outlets (admittedly this varies by country). For vehicles we standardise in a very small way with fuel filler caps - they are all designed to fit the nozzles on the pumps.

 

[Alex132]

it 100% needs to happen. Who'ever masters that, along with the proper network to support it is gonna kill. Even once cells hit 500 miles. Pull in, jack up, switch out, lower, leave, win

Even more LiOn batteries for land fills!


I'm really not a fan of how people are purposefully ignoring the detrimental side effects of electric cars and concealing all their short-comings under some thinly-veiled illusion of "IF YOU DON'T LIKE ELECTRIC CARS YOU'RE {EVIL | HATE THE PLANET | A TERRIBLE PERSON}. (Not saying you are, just a general rant).



I don't understand why people can't see the potential for cars to go both electric, hybrid and normal diesel or petrol or ethanol ICE. There seems to be a massive trend towards only making things electric, and in doing so making cars as awful as possible. Which, in-turn, is really hurting adoption rate and acceptance.


I do wonder when people will realise the negatives of electric vehicles like when they realised how diesel vehicles were worse than petrol vehicles for the environment. I'm guessing not anytime soon because manufacturers and people still think turbocharging a small engine is better for the environment. But hey, if we are only measured on Co2 and not NOx or SOx then it doesn't matter amirite

 

[skupples]

agreed, lion is filthy nasty terrible once disposed. How do they mitigate and account for that? no clue. it also really likes to go boom when punctured.

also agreed, but most vocal climate folks don't think things out. As long as it appears fine on the surface, it is fine. Quite similar to their shallow personalities.

I liked the Chevy Volt, they just didn't push the idea far enough. The battery needed to go further, and the generator/motor combo needed to output more recharging power.

i'm pretty sure I read the other day that the hybrid is being retired by most manufacturers soon.

 

[Alex132]

agreed, lion is filthy nasty terrible once disposed. How do they mitigate and account for that? no clue. it also really likes to go boom when punctured.

also agreed, but most vocal climate folks don't think things out. As long as it appears fine on the surface, it is fine. Quite similar to their shallow personalities.

I liked the Chevy Volt, they just didn't push the idea far enough. The battery needed to go further, and the generator/motor combo needed to output more recharging power.

i'm pretty sure I read the other day that the hybrid is being retired by most manufacturers soon.

I want to see more hybrid sports/super/hyper cars. LMP1 is amazing with the 500+500hp electric/combustion engine dynamic it's got.


On the topic of electric cars, I think the new Nissan Leaf is really nice, it doesn't shout in-your-face electric car design and is relatively affordable too.

 

[J7SC]

Segway to the above...carbon-based ultracapacitors etc

story

 

[GingerJohn]

Segway to the above...carbon-based ultracapacitors etc

story

That is a seriously sexy bike. I realise it is just a concept at this point, but still. I'm excited to see real life Tron cycles (minus the wall thing) become mainstream in my lifetime.

It seems like they are using the carbon ultra-caps as capacitors (makes sense) but with the Li-Ion battery as main energy storage. Not a bad compromise, although not particularly useful for aircraft at this point.

 

[skupples]

I just need a range of ~400 miles, then i'll be all in.

really though, I just want a Tesla. IDC how long it takes, my first electric will be a Tesla. (I figure the Civic will get replaced in 5 years time0

 

[delboy67]

I want to see more hybrid sports/super/hyper cars. LMP1 is amazing with the 500+500hp electric/combustion engine dynamic it's got.


On the topic of electric cars, I think the new Nissan Leaf is really nice, it doesn't shout in-your-face electric car design and is relatively affordable too.

My parents have a 1.6l kia, my wifes kia has the same engine but its a Niro hybrid, tbh its convinced me on hybrids, the 200lbs/ft makes it day and night better to drive and more frugal than the non hybrid.

 

[DNMock]

I just need a range of ~400 miles, then i'll be all in.

really though, I just want a Tesla. IDC how long it takes, my first electric will be a Tesla. (I figure the Civic will get replaced in 5 years time0

I'm gonna try and hold out for the first legit electric pick-ups. The Rivian and Bollinger are absolutely amazing, just a tad too pricy for me.

 

[bigjdubb]

There is still one big downside to electric vehicles, you need to have your own garage/driveway in order to be able to charge the darn thing. Anyone living in a place that has shared parking (apartments, condos, midrise etc..) is left not being able to charge at home. It's taking too long for Mr.Fusion to become a real thing.

 

[skupples]

or left fighting over the few available slots they have, like my buddy's apartment that has 4 electric depots per building of like 50 units.

and of course there's no organization to this, so people use whatever ones they can find. He works hella late, so typically has to drive to the very last one, hope there's a spot, then walk 10 minutes back to his unit.

 

[GingerJohn]

Well, infrastructure will develop as adoption increases. A year ago our workplace had no charging points, now we have 50 for the complex (still not enough, it's a big complex). Same with our (former) apartment building - they put charging points in to about 1/4 of the spots. The current building hasn't quite caught on yet though, but then we only just got a modern entryphone system last year.

I'm sure more cities will soon start putting charging stations on streets and running them like parking meters - for example Norway already does something like this.

Still sucks for early adopters, but then I'm sure when the Model T was introduced there were not all that many gas stations around.

Edit: Also, at least near me, gas stations are disappearing fast as developers buy up the land for condo buildings. Ironically the one by my apartment is being bought by the city to build a new subway station...

 

[DNMock]

There is still one big downside to electric vehicles, you need to have your own garage/driveway in order to be able to charge the darn thing. Anyone living in a place that has shared parking (apartments, condos, midrise etc..) is left not being able to charge at home. It's taking too long for Mr.Fusion to become a real thing.

That's exactly why I think the adoption rate of electric vehicles will be much slower than what most people think. A LOT of lower/mid level income apartments/condos/rent homes will likely never put that kind of infrastructure in. So basically the adoption rate will be mirrored onto the renovation rate of neighborhoods.

 

[Alex132]

Edit: Also, at least near me, gas stations are disappearing fast as developers buy up the land for condo buildings. Ironically the one by my apartment is being bought by the city to build a new subway station...

... don't get me started on Toronto's absolutely mess of construction/planning/etc. I'm sure it's equally as bad in BC though.


They recently made parking a non-electric vehicle in an electric vehicle parking/charging spot a fine-able offense which is really good because there are a few near me that I would sometimes see an AMG G-wagon with rather non-ToS compliant stickers plastered on it insulting electric cars/persons who drive them. Not sure what goes through people's heads who own those, I'm sure their source of income (whether it be parents or glucose guardians) are equally as... uh... special.

That's exactly why I think the adoption rate of electric vehicles will be much slower than what most people think. A LOT of lower/mid level income apartments/condos/rent homes will likely never put that kind of infrastructure in. So basically the adoption rate will be mirrored onto the renovation rate of neighborhoods.

Another factor is that we (Canada) have a carbon tax for purchasing a car (once-off) and then tax on gasoline, diesel and natural gas. Ontario removed the once-off fee (which I agree with) but I know several people want it back which I do not understand the logic behind at all.



The tax on those carbon-emitting vehicles and gasses won't deter anyone from using/buying them - it'll only punish people who are already barely getting by as-is. Especially with the seemingly month-over-month increase in public transport costs here too.


If choosing between electric and petrol cars were a valid option for the persons most impacted by this tax, then it would potentially make sense. However an incentive to choose electric would be a far wiser decision than a punishing deterrent which forces a decision and cultivates negative feelings about the government.



It's not like a family who is making the decision which is the best $4000-5000 second-hand car to get will just go "oh yes, I forgot let me get a brand new electric car for over $35k instead because there's a carbon tax!". Instead, they just are forced to accept that they are going to have to shell out even more money because of decisions made by people who don't have to worry about the cost of whether they can afford petrol, rent, etc this week or not.

 

[J7SC]

... don't get me started on Toronto's absolutely mess of construction/planning/etc. I'm sure it's equally as bad in BC though (...)

...yeah, I am in downtown Vancouver for 25+ years now, and it is getting crazier by the minute...seems like no real planning, just construction at every corner, and 'under' every corner and bridge as well. Also, I recently drove from Vancouver to Toronto and when it gets to comparing 'downtowns', I would be hard pressed to pick the '''winner''' . That said, Northern BC, the Rockies, Lake of the Woods and NE Lake Superior en route still seem like nice Canadian places to spend some time away from it all.

Our condo building just voted to install trickle-chargers in about 1/3rd of the the underground parking area - but it is a relatively new building, across from a freshly upgraded city hub station for 'emergency power & water' with corresponding infrastructure near-by, mostly sourcing hydro-power. Still, I'm not ready yet to go full-electric yet given the type of non-metro driving I also do...a plug-in hybrid will probably be my first foray into this 'electric mobility' world rather than full electric - s.th. like the X5 PHEV or similar. Good thing that there are a lot of choices coming to market now...

 

[Pawelr98]

That's exactly why I think the adoption rate of electric vehicles will be much slower than what most people think. A LOT of lower/mid level income apartments/condos/rent homes will likely never put that kind of infrastructure in. So basically the adoption rate will be mirrored onto the renovation rate of neighborhoods.

There's also the grid infrastructure.

You need plenty of power which needs to go through something.

It's not a middle of nowhere where you can build 400+kV lines.
Cities are not that easy to build in.
You will also face people claiming that HV lines create cancer or something.
In rural areas it will be maybe few farmers. In the city it will be several thousand people.

As for the hot-swappable batteries.
It's not as easy.

Different vehicles and different users will put various toll on battery life.
Some will be abusing the battery as it's "not mine".
It already happens with rental cars.

For planes it's going to be even more difficult to implement.
You will need at least two/three batteries per plane to at least cover the needs somehow.
This makes the initial cost very high.