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· D'ya like onions?
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· Vermin Supreme 2020
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tesla truck has successfully self piloted unknown # of times at this point.

we'll see then soon, just like the overnight prime truck explosions. (definition of soon varies)
 

· Head Smeghead of OCN
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The only reasons semi's aren't already going full electric are long term durability (those diesel motors can log well over a million miles), up front cost, and to a lesser extent charging infrastructure. Electric engines that have enough torque already exist, and a normal semi has a load capacity of 24 tons, setting aside say 4 tons, dropping the load capacity to 20 tons or something would probably give that bad boy enough juice to go coast to coast without a re-charge. Also, as previously stated, the acceleration eats up the vast majority of the power, so once fully autonomous semi's come out where a driver is allowed to exceed 10 hours a day on the road, I fully expect them to be completely electric.
A large quantity if not a majority of goods/raw materials shipped over long distances (Coast to coast) is done by rail, not semi-truck.

For large amounts of goods/raw material to be shipped by rail makes the most sense and yes, rail does use electric to an extent. Diesel engines run generating the electrical energy the drive motors use, it's been that way for years now. If speaking of semi's going that way you'd probrably see them used in a more hub oriented role based on where the rail yards are located, basically like it is now.
From rail hub to regional distribution to either local warehousing or direct to stores/customers depending on what the product/raw material actually is.

You'd still have your OTR trucks too but at least as "Is" for the next few years or perhaps decades, it's gonna depend on how viable electric becomes for long distance hauling in that way.

Another thing stopping trucks becoming used more is a simple fact - These trucks would be just like their industrial cousins are (At first) prone to breakdowns, sometimes stopping due to a simple trouble/error code and yes, someone would have to run out and fix/reset it.
No fun when you have perishables or even livestock on it just sitting in the sun there waiting on the guy or for them to finish the repair....
If they can at all because in some cases you'd have to take it into an actual shop, no way around it in that event.

A real breakdown is one thing, to stop a truck over a stupid "I tought eye taw twouble" code thing they will do sometimes.... Like our own vehicles can do as well today?
That won't fly for long.
As long as electrics aren't as reliable and cost effective as what we have today the industry will not change, I can promise you that.


Another thing I saw was about a mining operation going up empty and back down loaded making for an effciency of over 100%.

That won't last forever because that quarry/mine has to be on a mountain top and it's obviously just getting started in it's planned operation.
A basic pit mine is started on flat ground, you start off by making the hole and going down/in to get a load and you have to come up/out with it.

A mine operating from a mountain top at first really is more efficient until the top has been flattened out enough for the next stage of the operation.
That stage is to start going down into the mountain in the same basic way a pitmine does from the start. The edges of the mountain becomes a circular ridge they have to climb both ways and yes, you then have the hole spiraling down the center of it.
As they go down deeper into the mountain, the less efficiency you'd have based on that.

All I'm doing is pointing out counterpoints here, the idea of it isn't bad (Because the concept is actually good) but doesn't hurt to give a nudge the other way just to make people think and realize what they are getting into before they're in it.
Biggest of all here is to think, not blindly follow along just because "They" say it's good.
 

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A large quantity if not a majority of goods/raw materials shipped over long distances (Coast to coast) is done by rail, not semi-truck.
I have no cognitive idea where you get that idea at. I worked at the UPS distribution hub in Dallas. It handled all packages going into and out of the state of texas. There were no rail lines to our facility. There was on average around 200 semi's unloaded and another 200 semi's loaded every day. Now I work in a stone yard, were we get semi loads of stone from nation wide, none of them come by train. Just go to the nearest major interstate any time day or night, and spend 15 minutes counting semi's, extrapolate from there and you will get a sense of how much actually gets sent by semi rather than by rail.
 

· Head Smeghead of OCN
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I have no cognitive idea where you get that idea at. I worked at the UPS distribution hub in Dallas. It handled all packages going into and out of the state of texas. There were no rail lines to our facility. There was on average around 200 semi's unloaded and another 200 semi's loaded every day. Now I work in a stone yard, were we get semi loads of stone from nation wide, none of them come by train. Just go to the nearest major interstate any time day or night, and spend 15 minutes counting semi's, extrapolate from there and you will get a sense of how much actually gets sent by semi rather than by rail.
It's not based on how your facility operates or what "it" sees.
In short:
Your facility doesn't see these rail cars because it's not supposed to.

You (Personally) only get to see a tiny part of what really moves everyday total.
You're also probrably thinking about it in terms of packages mailed/sent by someone else AFTER it's already been made into an item/finished product.

It takes raw material(s) to make stuff with and that has to be shipped somehow.
Raw material sent to a certain place/business via bulk amounts has to have it sent by rail and many places have a rail that runs right to the facility itself.

For example, at a steel plant do you see trucks bringing in iron ore or does the ore arrive by railcar?
Do they send the ore out from the mine on trucks?
Or do they load railcars and send it directly to the processing plants?

Place your bets on rail because that's how it's done.

I used to work in mining, warehousing for both the manufacturer and distribution of a customer/company as part of jobs I've had before.
I've also worked as a field tech repairing lift equipment in many kinds of industrial facilities too, seeing all that first hand.
And yes...... I currently hold a Class A CDL too.

I've even been in one you didn't set foot on the property if you didn't go through a certain kind of training (HAZCON) in case there was a chemical leak and yes....
That place had at least two rail lines going directly in and out.
Had it's own fire department (Just like a town/city has) and all else on-site too.
 

· professional curmudgeon
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· professional curmudgeon
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curious what on earth would trump (no NOT him) the department of transportation; bureau of transportation statistics.

and never seen rails delivering goods to any store in my lifelong experiences. rails can move more bulk material cheaper BUT there are several million more miles of road than rail.

so guess what those loads get off loaded to for its final destination?

trucks.
 

· Head Smeghead of OCN
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I believe I made reference to that earlier, there is no way you can have a rail to every final destination.
"If speaking of semi's going that way you'd probrably see them used in a more hub oriented role based on where the rail yards are located, basically like it is now."
From rail hub to distribution/warehouse is the most common thing seen.

So..... I'm not gonna deny that because it's true but rail is still a big part of what goes on and in certain cases (Based on origin point of what's being shipped) it really is the way to go.

BTW we have kinda derailed the topic here - Just sayin.
 

· professional curmudgeon
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you made the statement but yeah, it got derailed very fast. :D
 

· Vermin Supreme 2020
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rail is rarely final destination, even when transporting cars and coal. The term "last mile" covers more than a mile.
 

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BTW we have kinda derailed the topic here - Just sayin.
Eh, we are still somewhat on topic. Use of electric powered vehicles for transportation.




It's not based on how your facility operates or what "it" sees.
In short:
Your facility doesn't see these rail cars because it's not supposed to.
The catch there is I actually own/operate the business, so I handle all the shipping from start to finish and in 15 years, off the top of my head, I can think of only one stone quarry in Minnesota that shipped via railway, at least here to Dallas. That said we aren't handling extremely large orders, usually only in the 100-1,000 tons per order range.
 

· Eastern Bloc Electronics
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Fair enough, I will take your word for it. Still in my mind it sounds incredibly dangerous to dump that much voltage (enough to push 10 kw/h) through 14awg wire. I'm likely not getting exactly how it works correct, but the higher the voltage, the more likely it is to jump and spark, right? So at those levels, even a minor tear or rip in the shielding or a loose connection on a switch or outlet would be a disaster and I don't care how diligent you are on upkeep, being one dumb rat, or errant nail in the wall is gonna happen eventually, and when it does, bye bye house.
In europe we build stuff differently than in the US.
Wires are inside solid walls and are covered with stuff. Not a single bit of free space.
So no rat, bug or whatever will get to it.
It does have disadvantages as the cooling is worse (14 AWG can run 20A continuously under favourable conditions) and you cannot change wiring without gutting the walls.

When using nails/drills I use a simple wireless AC voltage detector.
My 20$ multimeter has one.
DIY solutions can also be used if one knows enough about electricity (simple DIY device or normal audio amp).

As for voltage beeing dangerous.
Cables in your walls are most likely rated 300V or more already.
Hardware stores in europe usually sell home wiring rated for 450-500V minimum.

High voltage does make arcing easier. That's one thing worse.
Often visible in high-voltage devices like vacuum tube radios/TVs where voltage can exceed 300V DC.

On the other hand on 120V mains systems the fuse often has higher current so peak short-circuit current will be higher. This allows some unintended shorts to heat up more before the circuit breaker trips.
In europe some electricians joke about direct welding on US wiring.
Some breakers are rated over 100A (with adequate wiring) which means it's possible to weld directly from power outlet. All you need is some variable resistor (like a bucket of salty water) or a choke.


Train is just one of the electric transportation methods.
Trams do the same but for passengers within cities.

But there's also a "forgotten" path called trolleybuses.
Most commonly used in the former eastern bloc but also in other countries.
It's going back in the form of "e-highways" where there's overhead wiring which could be used for powering trucks on a single lane.
Without battery it makes much more sense, not much extra weight or space required.

For planes it's impossible.
They can only rely on batteries.

Eco-guys put focus on making everything electric.
But not everything can and should be made electric.
There are many field which for many reasons cannot, practically or economically switch to electric.

Boats can be electric because they can weight a ton with no issues.
They can even get their electricity from nuclear reactors, many military warships/submarines do that.
Trains could also use this electricity source.
But planes cannot. Both USA and USSR tried with bad results.
Shielding is too heavy.
 

· Registered
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If I can use a quick attach fitting for 1000+ psi hydraulic lines, I'm sure quick attach fittings will work for the cooling in this application.
If it was a high pressure liquid cooling solution that would be one thing, but that's just one of the ways it could be integrated. Considering the biggest problem with EV's at the moment is weight you don't know if it's literally a frame cooling system where the extra 20 lbs (or whatever) of fittings would be worth it or not. I mean, you just don't over complicate a production vehicle because you want to.. everything in the car is there for a reason and you don't pay for extra stuff you don't need.
 

· Registered
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I have a home hydrogen production setup. You can even weld with hydrogen if you were so inclined :)

You can reasonably easily convert a liquid propane BBQ grill to run on hydrogen if you are curious. The only issue becomes sourcing enough hydrogen. And of course hydrogen likes to escape just about any container you have it in.

The troubles with burning it are many, however. And any metals situated around burning hydrogen tend to get pitted and brittle, and then break in short order. Pistons + cylinder heads + cylinder walls + piston rings would need to be remade from a different alloy in order to survive long term.

Pistons and heads. That is kinda old school. NASA been using fuel cells in their APU's for decades. Basically you put water in and get hydrogen, oxygen out. Like you say even with turbines the problems are many. Fuel cells will be the next wave of the future. They're becoming more and more commonplace everyday.
http://www.fchea.org/in-transition/2018/11/5/fuel-cell-auxiliary-power-units
https://www.google.com/search?q=fuel+cell&rlz=1C1CHWL_enUS674US674&sxsrf=ACYBGNTggAIOfNQz-mcpjiS6yIxgFE7rCg:1578418574512&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm68Kzg_LmAhXGXc0KHWE-DtAQ_AUoA3oECBgQBQ&biw=2560&bih=1335

 

· Vermin Supreme 2020
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pretty sure toyota even has a production fuel cell prius thing.
 
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