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Discussion Starter #1
from my understanding they each include updated variations of the A3090

-i use the Steelseries QcK, the most common gaming cloth pad for optical mice
- i've searched many many threads on this issue, but a majority of them focus on personal preferences regarding shape, comfort, switches, durability, etc.

has it yet been established which has the better sensor accuracy in terms of perfect control speed, IPS, accuracy, zero prediction and jitter?

or is the difference too minimal to come to a conclusion?

thanks
 

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Between those, if I had to pick, neither of these count as 'the best optical sensor in the market'. The G400S has a bug where left to right movement tracks more distance (lower dpi) than right to left movement (higher dpi). Although the Deathadder 2013 doesn't express this phenomenon, it does have a 'smoothing' effect to it, which feels a sort of delay, rendering flick shots harder than more responsive mice.

In terms of shape/performance and price point, I recommend the G400(non S version). Maybe you'll like the older Deathadders without the smoothing effect, but from experience those have bad build quality.

This is my view on the current matter, and I hope it gives you insight on your current choice.
thumb.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks for your input

ugh, you'd think that when updating either the DA>DA2013 or G400>G400S, they'd fix the sensor performance bugs, instead of introducing new ones, right?

hmm
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adobostreak View Post

thanks for your input

ugh, you'd think that when updating either the DA>DA2013 or G400>G400S, they'd fix the sensor performance bugs, instead of introducing new ones, right?

hmm
The "smoothing" algorithm reduces jitter for the higher C.P.I. settings versus the older DeathAdders, but it seems to be noticeable versus the others' algorithms, so that might be considered a "bug" or deal breaker for some, but I bet that high sensitivity users would not notice it.

I am not a Razer fanboy... I was so disappointed when I saw the reports of "smoothing"!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilizum View Post

Between those, if I had to pick, neither of these count as 'the best optical sensor in the market'. The G400S has a bug where left to right movement tracks more distance (lower dpi) than right to left movement (higher dpi). Although the Deathadder 2013 doesn't express this phenomenon, it does have a 'smoothing' effect to it, which feels a sort of delay, rendering flick shots harder than more responsive mice.

In terms of shape/performance and price point, I recommend the G400(non S version). Maybe you'll like the older Deathadders without the smoothing effect, but from experience those have bad build quality.

This is my view on the current matter, and I hope it gives you insight on your current choice.
thumb.gif
Honestly been playing quake for a long time and mx518, g400s are probably my best most consistent accurate mice I've ever used even if there is a bug with g400s. The grip with the g400s is so damn good as well. I can rest my whole hand on the mice and still make crazy flick shots and lightning gun is usually 40+. I tried the deathadder 2013 and I have a zowie ec2 evo and am and I always do much better with g400s. The sensor is the best I've used so far.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilizum View Post

The G400S has a bug where left to right movement tracks more distance (lower dpi) than right to left movement (higher dpi).
Evidence?

Isn't Logitech paying more attention to the code with the new G400S over the older G400? Didn't they raise the price to recoup costs because of this? It is hard to believe that they would allow this to happen.
 

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Why isn't Zowie in your list of considerations?
 

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Originally Posted by popups View Post

Yet usable. Unless you use the 450 step.
I use it at 125/450 and then crank up the sensitivity in game. You are are telling me that you can follow it at max in game, you sir are on crack!
 

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Originally Posted by SightUp View Post

I use it at 125/450 and then crank up the sensitivity in game. You are are telling me that you can follow it at max in game, you sir are on crack!
I have a sensitivity of 1.25 with 0.22 yaw & pitch when using the 450 step.

The 450 step has lower malfunction speed than the other steps. The one I have is near 2.5m/s.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

Yet usable. Unless you use the 450 step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

I have a sensitivity of 1.25 with 0.22 yaw & pitch when using the 450 step.

The 450 step has lower malfunction speed than the other steps. The one I have is near 2.5m/s.
The 450 step at 500 Hz is great, similar max tracking rate to the 2300 step (both are around 3.5 m/s). The delay some people experience is also minimal, it doesn't affect my gameplay in the slightest.
 

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Erhm ive tried both 450dpi 500 hz and 2300dpi 1000hz on my zowie am. Fast swipes its easy to hit malfunction speed @ 450. So i just use 2300 dpi step and lower win sensitivity. Just like i did when my old DA still was alive. And I have red the 3090 manual where it says 1800, is a native resolution and kingsis lens has tiny magnification wich makes me believe 2300 is the way to go. But all thoose New 3090 mice with 800 dpi maxtracking speed how? Different Srom can change native steps? Cant find on avago homepage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
oh yeah, has anyone figured out what the new "deltazero technology" is in the new G400s sensor?

is it just marketing bs for no prediction/accel?

*i did research on the logitech forums, the staff seem to just parrot the same "responds accurately to hand movements" response while avoiding getting into detail what it is
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

The 450 step at 500 Hz is great, similar max tracking rate to the 2300 step (both are around 3.5 m/s). The delay some people experience is also minimal, it doesn't affect my gameplay in the slightest.
That is if you use Enotus to test the malfunction speed using 400 CPI. The Zowie EC/AM/FK's CPI is closer to 500. So, the result is a false one that makes the malfunction speed appear higher than it is.

It would be nice if someone made a program that allowed you to measure the CPI, then test that specific CPI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavve View Post

Erhm ive tried both 450dpi 500 hz and 2300dpi 1000hz on my zowie am. Fast swipes its easy to hit malfunction speed @ 450. So i just use 2300 dpi step and lower win sensitivity. Just like i did when my old DA still was alive. And I have red the 3090 manual where it says 1800, is a native resolution and kingsis lens has tiny magnification wich makes me believe 2300 is the way to go. But all thoose New 3090 mice with 800 dpi maxtracking speed how? Different Srom can change native steps? Cant find on avago homepage.
The 2300 [1800] is the native step, the rest are scaled. It's an older SROM.

Avago has removed all sensor related stuff off their site. Some of it was transfered to PixArt's site...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adobostreak View Post

oh yeah, has anyone figured out what the new "deltazero technology" is in the new G400s sensor?

is it just marketing bs for no prediction/accel?

*i did research on the logitech forums, the staff seem to just parrot the same "responds accurately to hand movements" response while avoiding getting into detail what it is
I think "Delta Zero" refers to the new coding for their sensor/firmware. That is why they invited press to hear about various sensor stuff... Also (likely) why they increased the price a little -- using new switches was necessary to make the G400 appear upgraded.

If this "Delta Zero" improves tracking it is worth the extra money in my mind. They deserve it...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

I think "Delta Zero" refers to the new coding for their sensor/firmware. That is why they invited press to hear about various sensor stuff... Also (likely) why they increased the price a little -- using new switches was necessary to make the G400 appear upgraded.

If this "Delta Zero" improves tracking it is worth the extra money in my mind. They deserve it...
Delta Zero is a marketing for non-perceivable acceleration. Really has nothing do with anything else.. Chris pate (Product Manager for gaming) mentioned that himself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmasteR View Post

I honestly can't feel the smoothing on the DA 2K13. I love my 2013 in fact.
Same. I have the 3.5G version as well as a Zowie EC1 Evo. I've done some paint tests and such...I don't notice any perceivable difference between the sensors. Like with the DA 3G (old firmware) and MX518 you can see a pretty large difference in paint. Maybe I can't feel the small amount that the 2013 has, IDK.
 
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