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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All right, I followed the advice of some members on this forum and I decided to test my Big Water SE system on a table outside my rig.

I used the following loop: Pump -> Radiator -> Cpu block -> Tank.
I placed all the parts directly on the table at the same height except for the tank which I placed higher (by about 5 cm = 2 inches) than the rest of the parts to make sure everything would work fine.

Now the weird issue... Whenever my pump is upright I get very little water flow (or even no flow at all).
When I lay the pump on its right side (the one with no sticker and writings) suddenly water starts to flow correctly. I'm able to hear a slight trickling noise and I see air bubbles (at first only) traveling through the loop at a rather good speed.

What's going on here ?
Should I makes sure other parts are higher than the pump
Should I install this system in my rig with the pump laid on its side ?
Do I have a defective pump ?
 

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Sounds like you may have an air lock in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nope, now the pump is making buzzing sound and it's not pumping at all !
How tight does one tighten the nuts anyway ? All the way till they touch the other fixed nut or just enough so they hold in place ?

**Edit: I took off the pump and blew air from my mouth into the "pump in" tube (as the loop was filled with normal drinking water for testing) to check if anything is obstructing the water flow and everything was fine... water just exited normally at the other end of the loop.
 

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there isnt enough water and u have to make sure the vent on the tank is open....when the pump is upright....and no water is going it means there is not enough water as the suction of the pump is on the top...thats y...when u lay it on the side it works fine coz there is enough flooding on the suction...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by cyrixMII300

there isnt enough water and u have to make sure the vent on the tank is open....when the pump is upright....and no water is going it means there is not enough water as the suction of the pump is on the top...thats y...when u lay it on the side it works fine coz there is enough flooding on the suction...

All right I just tried another Big Water SE pump and I got the same result... no flow !! It can't be two defective pumps... I must be doing something wrong !
Can you please elaborate Cyrix ?
How much water do I have to fill ? I filled it till it was between the "low" and "high" front indicators.
I looked at the back of the tank and water was halfway between the "In" and "Out" exits. I mean the "In" is higher than the "Out" on the tank rear and water level was just above the "Out" but below the "In".

What do you mean I have to make sure the vent on the tank is open when the pump is upright ?? Shouldn't the pump always be upright ? If yes then how am I supposed to close the vent on the tank when I want to install everything on my rig ?

Also what do you mean by "when the pump is upright....and no water is going it means there is not enough water as the suction of the pump is on the top...thats y...when u lay it on the side it works fine coz there is enough flooding on the suction..."

One last thing... I didn't cut any tubes yet so I'm using the full tube length that comes with the kit. I wanted to give my self some room in case I decide to install the radiator on a table near my case (not attached to it).
 

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The Pump needs to be full of water with no air. The tank needs to be over the pump with the outlet fitting at the lowest point on the tank. The radiator can cause a vapor lock so try filling the radiator full before fully connecting all the lines. Eliminating air is key. Make sure the return to the tank is unobstructed. Leave the tank fill open or off until all the air has been beld from the system. This of course assumes that it is not a presealed system with a faulty pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by CyberDruid

The radiator can cause a vapor lock so try filling the radiator full before fully connecting all the lines.

How can I do that without spilling all the water on myself lol.
Plus how tight do the nuts have to be ?
And do I have to fill the tank all the way to the top so that both the rear "In" and "Out" connections are immersed ?
Defective pump ? I just tried another identical one and I'm getting the same result.
 

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The nuts only need to be finger tight. Are you sure the flow is going the right way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
All right I filled the tank all the way up (and I mean 99%) just before it goes over... and I fired up my psu (which is shorted) and water started flowing !
I thought the tank was no supposed to be filled all the way up. But then I realized that when the tank's rear inlet was not under water the system was not working.
Any explanations ? Thanks guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by pjlietz

The nuts only need to be finger tight. Are you sure the flow is going the right way?

I'll tell you what I did and you tell me if it's correct.
According to the manual the pump's inlet is the highest connector and the outlet is the lowest connector.

So here's what I did:
- connected the tanks outlet to the pumps inlet
- connected the pumps outlet to the radiator (doesn't matter where on the radiator).
- connected the other end of the radiator to the cpu block (doesn't matter where on the block).
- connected the other end of the block to the tank's inlet.
 

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ok...explanation...this is going to be long so bear with me....

the water pumps for water cooling systems operate very much the same way as industrial centrifugal pumps....they must have sufficient NPSA (Net Positive Suction Available) and correct NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head) to operate...

which in lay man terms means that u must have enough force on the inlet of the pump for the pump to operate efficiently...but also similar to industrial pumps when there is air trapped in the suction or inlet of the pump, u will have air lock which will cause cavitation...that why when u first install the system into ur case u must make sure that the tank (reservoir) is located at the highest point...and the outlet of thank which is on the bottom of the tank must be connected to the bottom of the pump which is inlet of the pump

u must make sure the cap of the bottle is open which will basically act like a vent and also allow u to fill the bottle higher but make sure that u have enough space for air bubbles to escape without overflowing....keep coolant standby since when all air escapes the level will drop...

u must continuosly tap the tubes with ur fingers to remove all trapped air inside...also make sure u start and the stop the pump at least 10 to 15 times within a span of 1 hour...this is because the pump is most powerful at start and this will produce enough force to remove all trapped air within the radiator and also the block...once all air has been removed and pump is operating continuously with enough force....cap the bottle and then stop the pump...then tilt the pump to allow u to remove the tube from the tank and cap that inlet and reconnect the return from the block..make sure that the flow is from pump to radiator to block and back to pump..this will yield the highest flowrate and most efficient heat transfer

edit: btw, sorry for the late reply was a bit bust earlier and as a footnote; i had a similar system to urs and i hit 4.06GHz on that processor at stable conditions so see what u can do with urs....
 

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Sorry for the Double post.

Also, you have to keep changing the pump around while its being turned on and off.

When I changed the order of my component flow, it did the same thing..

I had to keep screwing with it, until it started to pump.

Make sure the lines coming from the pump are going from straight up, (so the air bleeds up to the tank) and then sideways like the picture shows, eventually it will go..

EDIT: Also, keep removing the tank cap to allow the air to equalize then add more fluid little by little. You may even have to tilt your case a few dozen times to allow trapped air to flow to a different portion of the system. I found that the ON/OFF meathod works, just dont let your pc heat up. And dont let it get to the point of loading windows or you might corrupt your OS by turning it off at the wrong time.. Should only be in about 2-3 second intervals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by cyrixMII300

ok...explanation...this is going to be long so bear with me....

the water pumps for water cooling systems operate very much the same way as industrial centrifugal pumps....they must have sufficient NPSA (Net Positive Suction Available) and correct NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head) to operate...

which in lay man terms means that u must have enough force on the inlet of the pump for the pump to operate efficiently...but also similar to industrial pumps when there is air trapped in the suction or inlet of the pump, u will have air lock which will cause cavitation...that why when u first install the system into ur case u must make sure that the tank (reservoir) is located at the highest point...and the outlet of thank which is on the bottom of the tank must be connected to the bottom of the pump which is inlet of the pump

u must make sure the cap of the bottle is open which will basically act like a vent and also allow u to fill the bottle higher but make sure that u have enough space for air bubbles to escape without overflowing....keep coolant standby since when all air escapes the level will drop...

u must continuosly tap the tubes with ur fingers to remove all trapped air inside...also make sure u start and the stop the pump at least 10 to 15 times within a span of 1 hour...this is because the pump is most powerful at start and this will produce enough force to remove all trapped air within the radiator and also the block...once all air has been removed and pump is operating continuously with enough force....cap the bottle and then stop the pump...then tilt the pump to allow u to remove the tube from the tank and cap that inlet and reconnect the return from the block..make sure that the flow is from pump to radiator to block and back to pump..this will yield the highest flowrate and most efficient heat transfer

edit: btw, sorry for the late reply was a bit bust earlier and as a footnote; i had a similar system to urs and i hit 4.06GHz on that processor at stable conditions so see what u can do with urs....

Hold on a second... you said the bottom of the pump is inlet of the pump ? That's not what it says on the manual... it says (on all pump drawings) that the topmost connector is the inlet.
By the way that's what I used in my configuration posted above and the flow is great. Whenever I insert a bubble of air in the loop it moves on very quickly all the way to the tank. Please confirm which pump connector is the inlet.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by z_one

Hold on a second... you said the bottom of the pump is inlet of the pump ? That's not what it says on the manual... it says (on all pump drawings) that the topmost connector is the inlet.
By the way that's what I used in my configuration posted above and the flow is great. Whenever I insert a bubble of air in the loop it moves on very quickly all the way to the tank. Please confirm which pump connector is the inlet.

ok...things great...but as far as i remember the bottom of the pump is the....oopsss sorry mate.....i have to do a double time now...u r right..the bottom is the outlet and the top is inlet coz the bigwater pump sucks water from top and discharge from bottom, thats why u can see the water being sucked in from the top of the pump......really sorry mate....another thing i missed out...there is a small port on the pump itself...once u have flushed all air out, disconnected the pump and everything...for at least the first 72 hours of operation, open the port and bleed the air every 24 hrs of operation..coz u r still bound to have air trapped inside the system...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by cyrixMII300

ok...things great...but as far as i remember the bottom of the pump is the....oopsss sorry mate.....i have to do a double time now...u r right..the bottom is the outlet and the top is inlet coz the bigwater pump sucks water from top and discharge from bottom, thats why u can see the water being sucked in from the top of the pump......really sorry mate....another thing i missed out...there is a small port on the pump itself...once u have flushed all air out, disconnected the pump and everything...for at least the first 72 hours of operation, open the port and bleed the air every 24 hrs of operation..coz u r still bound to have air trapped inside the system...

I can't seem to find that port on the pump you are talking about.
Sorry didn't follow you when you said "once u have flushed all air out, disconnected the pump and everything...for at least the first 72 hours of operation, open the port and bleed the air every 24 hrs of operation..coz u r still bound to have air trapped inside the system..."
 

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there is suppose to be a metal port right on top of the pump with a screw on it which doesnt seem to belong anywhere....can u find it? there is a port under the metal plate which has plastic plug...u have to bleed air from here using by removing the plug...

btw, what i mean is when the system is already operating satisfactorily and u have installed everything in the case....then for every 24 hours of operation for the computer....open this port to vent air...do it for at least 72 hours of operation...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There's a metal plate that covers the top and the back of the pump.
The metal plate is screwed to the top of the pump with 4 screws.
So I should remove that plate and I'll find the port with a plastic plug under it ?
Then what do I do ? Do I remove the plastic plug once every 24 hours while the pump is running ?
Sorry if I'm asking "silly questions".
 
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