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Discussion Starter #1
Is there a chart showing the performance for each phone? or perhaps phone CPUs?
Cell[hone these days have become very powerful, and very power efficient.
There are tons of sub $50 phones, some even as low as $10 or free. I am thinking if those would be worth it to run, since they consume so little power when compared to PC or laptop.
Would the cost, performance, and power usage make a cell phone farm worth it? As compared to regular desktop CPU/GPU?

Thanks all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterhung View Post

Is there a chart showing the performance for each phone? or perhaps phone CPUs?
Cell[hone these days have become very powerful, and very power efficient.
There are tons of sub $50 phones, some even as low as $10 or free. I am thinking if those would be worth it to run, since they consume so little power when compared to PC or laptop.
Would the cost, performance, and power usage make a cell phone farm worth it? As compared to regular desktop CPU/GPU?

Thanks all.
Give me $50 and I'll give you a CPU that will smash any phone out there. Give $150 and you get a 2500K / Asus P8P67m-Pro Rev3 setup that will blow away 50 of the cheapest phones in any performance parameter you can think of.

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Discussion Starter #3
i highly doubt you can get an entire PC with $50.
The key point here is power consumption, that need to be factored into the cost, for say, at least 1yr.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex1954 View Post

Give me $50 and I'll give you a CPU that will smash any phone out there. Give $150 and you get a 2500K / Asus P8P67m-Pro Rev3 setup that will blow away 50 of the cheapest phones in any performance parameter you can think of.

biggrin.gif
That $150 idea is.... enticing to say the least. Out of sheer curiosity, what kind of PPD does a 2500K get with some of the more popular projects, like say, I dunno.... WCG and/or [email protected]? I'm curious because of... science!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

That $150 idea is.... enticing to say the least. Out of sheer curiosity, what kind of PPD does a 2500K get with some of the more popular projects, like say, I dunno.... WCG and/or [email protected]? I'm curious because of... science!
This one been running NFS since I got home on break... just putzing along at 4GHz with tiny cooler on it... I have two of these setups...

http://boincstats.com/en/stats/88/host/detail/2247498/charts



NFS is maybe not the best thing to get a benchmark with... but there it is... maybe 600K/month???

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Not bad at all for an older four core!
 

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Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Not bad at all for an older four core!
Talking about my age again?
rolleyes.gif


Well, with a couple exceptions, everything I have is old... body included! 1 and 2 generations back is all I can afford most of the time...

BUT, I have discovered that with few exceptions, old runs as fast as new given the same clock speeds... except where AVX is used... just takes a bit more power to run older stuff...

GPU's are a different story and project dependent...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterhung View Post

i highly doubt you can get an entire PC with $50.
The key point here is power consumption, that need to be factored into the cost, for say, at least 1yr.
Well, 135 watts for the 2500K setup... and that's running 4GHz.... at .10/Kwh, that about $10.00/month or $120/year. It can put out about 600k/month NFS or 7.2M/year points. That works out to be about 60,000 points per dollar.

If anyone has some Android numbers for NFS, maybe a comparison could be done...

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I would be interested in seeing some numbers for the phones. I am too lazy to do the research myself
biggrin.gif


I have had several people ask me about a raspberry pi and how it compares to a regular PC. I am in for the long haul and I don't care, I will BOINC anything
guiltysmiley.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex1954 View Post

Talking about my age again?
rolleyes.gif


Well, with a couple exceptions, everything I have is old... body included! 1 and 2 generations back is all I can afford most of the time...

BUT, I have discovered that with few exceptions, old runs as fast as new given the same clock speeds... except where AVX is used... just takes a bit more power to run older stuff...

GPU's are a different story and project dependent...

biggrin.gif
Lol @ the age quip!

Hmmmmmm, I'll have to contemplate a few things because while running a Hex core sounds fun, at the same time there aren't that many decent looking boards I could cram into the new CaseLabs BH7 (or BH4, but I kind of prefer ATX) that are capable of running two or four GTX 750 Ti's... Well, at least those cards plus a 5820k or such are things I've contemplated for shoehorning into that new CaseLabs case, but I'm trying to stick to ddr3 as I already have a 2x2GB kit waiting for me to give it a home (that I won in a BGB so obviously I want to use them for BOINC). I feel that with such an idea I'd probably want a cpu with hyperthreading, so if I added in one or two low power gpu's I could still get some good cpu project ppd.

Too many ideas running through my head it seems, but the thought of two SMA8's straddling/guarding a BH7 and having all of them BOINCing on at least the processors.... Tempting to say the least.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic8192 View Post

I would be interested in seeing some numbers for the phones. I am too lazy to do the research myself
biggrin.gif


I have had several people ask me about a raspberry pi and how it compares to a regular PC. I am in for the long haul and I don't care, I will BOINC anything
guiltysmiley.gif
The only android device I have is a 1st generation Galaxy tablet. I did crunch on it back when there was only one or two projects with android tasks. No idea what the performance was like, but when I get back home next week I'll crunch some tasks and see what it can do.

I think this is a pretty good idea and if anyone wants to submit some tasks I can get a database going of android production.

Some kind of standard post with hardware specs, project, and run times is all we need to get started.

Example:

Device -

CPU -

Android Version -

Project and application -

PPD -
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tictoc View Post

The only android device I have is a 1st generation Galaxy tablet. I did crunch on it back when there was only one or two projects with android tasks. No idea what the performance was like, but when I get back home next week I'll crunch some tasks and see what it can do.

I think this is a pretty good idea and if anyone wants to submit some tasks I can get a database going of android production.

Some kind of standard post with hardware specs, project, and run times is all we need to get started.

Example:

Device -
CPU -
Android Version -
Project and application -
PPD -
Today I changed the 2500K setup to run 1 hour long Rosetta tasks for another benchmark... Give it a few days and you have more data...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfromcolo View Post

I have a crappy wifi android tablet I could try. Have to figure out how to do temperature monitoring, these things don't appear to made to shed heat if you have it running wide open 7/24.
Good point... would 50 old smartphones need external cooling pad to stay 100% on all the time? Would that add MORE power to the equation?

So each one has a power cord (USB or whatever) keeping it charged, something else with a fan to keep it cool... getting more complicated all the time...

LOL!

biggrin.gif


EDIT: some data on [email protected]

...3 Android on ARM processors listed with Avg GFlops...

ARMv7 Processor rev 5 (v7l) 0.47 GFlops
Cell Broadband Engine 0.37 GFlops
ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l) 0.27 GFLops

...2500K with average GFlops...

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz [Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7] 4.20 GFlops

2500K 4GHZ does about 4.8 GFlops...

So as a first order approximation, one can surmise the 4Ghz 2500K is 10 times faster (per core) than the best average ARM CPU and 17 times faster than the slower ARM processors which you would be more likely to find on the cheap side.

So far as power goes, have no idea myself how much a cell phone pulls from the wall while running. BUT, boinc won't run on android unless the battery is >90% or so says the FAQ's at boinc website, so they have to stay plugged in.

Soo, older cell phones (totally excluding iPhones BTW) seem to have one or two cores max and maybe even slower than what is reported on the Einstein website. But for now we use the slowest...

I would say it's possible that BOINC won't even run on some of the oldest ARM based Android cells out there due to memory limitations and such.

Soo, it would take as a minimum 4x17 old cell phones to MAYBE equal one 4GHz 2500K setup. How much would it cost to PURCHASE 68 cell phones and how much POWER would they all use?

It would take as a minimum 4x10 newer old cell phones to MAYBE equal one 4GHz 2500K setup. How much would it cost to PURCHASE 40 newer old cell phones and how much POWER would they all use?

IF you only bought 50 to split the difference, how much would that cost and how much power?

IF 40 phones cost $10 each, that is $400 right there. Also, if they only used 5W each, that is 200W right there and you still have a huge mess and no cooling solutions.

SOOOOO, I stand by what I said. My $150 2500K setup would beat the hell out of any cell phone cluster out there that you can think of in both initial cost and running costs. AND you can down clock and under volt the 2500K and drop the power to 100W and still beat a cell phone cluster!!!

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Discussion Starter #15
I think your calc is way off.
Based on this
ARMv7 Processor rev 5 (v7l) 0.47 GFlops
Cell Broadband Engine 0.37 GFlops
ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l) 0.27 GFLops

...2500K with average GFlops...

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz [Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7] 4.20 GFlops

Are you saying ONE ARMv7 core is 0.47GFlops and ONE 2500K core is 4.20Glops? If so, do you realize phones usually have 2, 4, 8, 16 cores. So no, I don't think one 2500K is about the speed of 68 phones.
Your stats seem to show 2500K avg about 20,000ppd. I run some test on a really crappy 1.2GHz dual core Qualcomm Snapdragon 410 8916, and it gets 2300ppd. So, I'd say 10 of these would be up to speed with one 2500k. BTW, I got the phone for $10, so 10 of these would be $100, and while I cannot find a kill-a-watt to measure it now, I don't think it would pull more than 5W per phone. So total 50watts, way less than a 2500k.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterhung View Post

I think your calc is way off.
Based on this
ARMv7 Processor rev 5 (v7l) 0.47 GFlops
Cell Broadband Engine 0.37 GFlops
ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l) 0.27 GFLops

...2500K with average GFlops...

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz [Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7] 4.20 GFlops

Are you saying ONE ARMv7 core is 0.47GFlops and ONE 2500K core is 4.20Glops? If so, do you realize phones usually have 2, 4, 8, 16 cores. So no, I don't think one 2500K is about the speed of 68 phones.
Your stats seem to show 2500K avg about 20,000ppd. I run some test on a really crappy 1.2GHz dual core Qualcomm Snapdragon 410 8916, and it gets 2300ppd. So, I'd say 10 of these would be up to speed with one 2500k. BTW, I got the phone for $10, so 10 of these would be $100, and while I cannot find a kill-a-watt to measure it now, I don't think it would pull more than 5W per phone. So total 50watts, way less than a 2500k.
I would be very interested in your kill-a-watt meter reading.
 

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I'm curious as well, alongside what methods are required to keep the phones from overheating when being run 24/7 ^_^
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterhung View Post

I think your calc is way off.
Based on this
ARMv7 Processor rev 5 (v7l) 0.47 GFlops
Cell Broadband Engine 0.37 GFlops
ARMv6-compatible processor rev 7 (v6l) 0.27 GFLops

...2500K with average GFlops...

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz [Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7] 4.20 GFlops

Are you saying ONE ARMv7 core is 0.47GFlops and ONE 2500K core is 4.20Glops? If so, do you realize phones usually have 2, 4, 8, 16 cores. So no, I don't think one 2500K is about the speed of 68 phones.
Your stats seem to show 2500K avg about 20,000ppd. I run some test on a really crappy 1.2GHz dual core Qualcomm Snapdragon 410 8916, and it gets 2300ppd. So, I'd say 10 of these would be up to speed with one 2500k. BTW, I got the phone for $10, so 10 of these would be $100, and while I cannot find a kill-a-watt to measure it now, I don't think it would pull more than 5W per phone. So total 50watts, way less than a 2500k.
Yes, I was talking about individual core speeds as reported to me. I have no idea myself, this is just theoretical stuff anyways. Feel free to jump in with measured empirical data! Also links to your phone specs and project results.

It may even be better to run a BOINC benchmark so we can compare apples to apples so far as tasks go. I ran some various length Rosetta tasks as well, so we can compare that too if you want. It may in fact turn out that 10 smaller units could indeed equal a 2500K. That would mean you could construct a farm of maybe 100 units and equal 10 2500K's...

Now 100 cells being cooled and crunching would be a sight to see! Who knows, maybe best point-per-watt setup there is! (BOINC project support limitations not withstanding)

biggrin.gif


PS: This may be a good place to start as well! http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-17300?scode=GS401&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google&gclid=CPTelZKI68wCFcMbgQod5i0Cwg
 

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I have a raspberry pi... Still havent done anything with it so I should definitely get boinc going and run some benchies
 
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