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Discussion Starter #1
So, I'm going with two Corsair H115i sets for my TitanX and 5960X (both will be overclocked). Those radiators are amongst small number I can get for some discount and easy to install, no maintenance loops that suits me.

Now, I'm planing to go with a push pull config for both. What bothers me are the fans.

From what I understood, and is logical, I need high static pressure for push fans and high air flow for pull fans. With both radiators I get Corsair SP140L which tend to be similar to SP140 I presume (or little difference there).
Stats for those are:

Airflow 49.49 CFM
Static Pressure 1.17 mmH20
Sound Level 29.3 dBA
Speed 1440 RPM

Then, I get to see that Noctua offers two (one suggested line) lines:
http://noctua.at/en/products/fan

NF-P14s (Redux) with similar, albeit a bit better stats:

Airflow 133.7 CFM
Static Pressure 1.91 mmH20
Sound Level 25.8 dBA
Speed 1500 RPM

I guess Noctua is what I should replace stock with.

But, what I noticed is that there is also an "Industrial" line:
31,5 182,5 4,18

Airflow 183.5 CFM
Static Pressure 4.18 mmH20
Sound Level 31.5 dBA
Speed 2000 RPM

While noise is higher (31,5 still fits into "not noisy" I think), the static pressure is significantly higher (even airflow). 4,18 trumps 1.91 by more than double.

There is also a

Airflow 269.3 CFM
Static Pressure 10.52 mmH20
Sound Level 41.3 dBA
Speed 3000 RPM

But I guess that is way more than I need?
smile.gif


Now, is there any reason not to go with Noctua Industrial, except for the noise? And also, is there any reason not to replace stock with even first Redux Noctuas?

I presume, for airflow I should go for any of the high airflow ones here...
 

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One thing to consider is that push/pull configuration will add a considerable amount of noise and change the sound signature. The manufacturer noise ratings on the fans become irrelevant. On every fan i've ever used in p/p they begin making more noise ~1300 rpm and it worsens as the rpms climb. Corsair sp's were by far the worst i've encountered for noise in a p/p setup. They were much louder and had a very nasty sound signature when compared to push configurations. I have 0 experience with the noctuas so i won't comment on how good or bad it is. Its just something to consider if you plan on running high rpm p/p fans.

Another thing to consider is the fpi thickness of the rads. Corsair doesn't list it on their website so i'm not sure if their rads are high, low, or somewhere in the middle with fpi. A lower fpi rad will benefit less from p/p setups as it restricts flow less and all you end up with is a bunch of extra noise in the end. Thinner rads in general benefit less from p/p which the corsair aio is. But if you're trying squeeze every last degree of cooling performance out of them then maybe its worth it to you.

Without getting into pq curves and complicating this unnecessarily, the static pressure rating is generally the more important figure when selecting radiator fans. It represents the fans ability to push air through a restrictive space so higher static pressure usually means higher cfm on a rad. Manufacturer cfm ratings are done in open air circumstances and so are the dba ratings. Actual CFM and dba will be different once mounted to a rad. I find sound signature to be far more important than actual dba ratings with rad fans. Some fans have a nice whoosh sound, others have horrible mechanical droning to them at upper rpms, but will have similar dba ratings.

Probably wasn't much help with the specific fans you're looking at, but i didn't want to comment too much on 140mm fan performance. I have little experience with them on radiators. I'm sure some others will offer their opinions on the noctuas as well as other 140mm fans out there. One thing is for sure though, if you want the best noise to performance ratio get rid of the corsair fans.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
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Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

One thing to consider is that push/pull configuration will add a considerable amount of noise and change the sound signature. The manufacturer noise ratings on the fans become irrelevant. On every fan i've ever used in p/p they begin making more noise ~1300 rpm and it worsens as the rpms climb. Corsair sp's were by far the worst i've encountered for noise in a p/p setup. They were much louder and had a very nasty sound signature when compared to push configurations. I have 0 experience with the noctuas so i won't comment on how good or bad it is. Its just something to consider if you plan on running high rpm p/p fans.

Another thing to consider is the fpi thickness of the rads. Corsair doesn't list it on their website so i'm not sure if their rads are high, low, or somewhere in the middle with fpi. A lower fpi rad will benefit less from p/p setups as it restricts flow less and all you end up with is a bunch of extra noise in the end. Thinner rads in general benefit less from p/p which the corsair aio is. But if you're trying squeeze every last degree of cooling performance out of them then maybe its worth it to you.

Without getting into pq curves and complicating this unnecessarily, the static pressure rating is generally the more important figure when selecting radiator fans. It represents the fans ability to push air through a restrictive space so higher static pressure usually means higher cfm on a rad. Manufacturer cfm ratings are done in open air circumstances and so are the dba ratings. Actual CFM and dba will be different once mounted to a rad. I find sound signature to be far more important than actual dba ratings with rad fans. Some fans have a nice whoosh sound, others have horrible mechanical droning to them at upper rpms, but will have similar dba ratings.

Probably wasn't much help with the specific fans you're looking at, but i didn't want to comment too much on 140mm fan performance. I have little experience with them on radiators. I'm sure some others will offer their opinions on the noctuas as well as other 140mm fans out there. One thing is for sure though, if you want the best noise to performance ratio get rid of the corsair fans.
The sound is primary for me so I came up with an idea to go for Noctua Industrial 3000 PWM and since I'll be using a fan controller, I'll reduce the RPM of those to about 1000. It's not linear, but being rated at 10,6mm and almost 300 CFM I expect to get enough static pressure, airflow and "silence" from those running even at below than 33%. The cost is less of an issue here than the actual noise and performance.

Push+pull will enable even more reduction in fan speed, judging by my short try at fluid dynamics (I'm a bit rusty since university).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toncij View Post

The sound is primary for me so I came up with an idea to go for Noctua Industrial 3000 PWM and since I'll be using a fan controller, I'll reduce the RPM of those to about 1000. It's not linear, but being rated at 10,6mm and almost 300 CFM I expect to get enough static pressure, airflow and "silence" from those running even at below than 33%. The cost is less of an issue here than the actual noise and performance.

Push+pull will enable even more reduction in fan speed, judging by my short try at fluid dynamics (I'm a bit rusty since university).
Just be careful as some higher RPM fans do not like running at such a low speed (ticking, etc.), and some of them won't even start to spin at such low speed/voltage. Really, I will say those industrial Noctuas are way overkill...I have a stack of old Scythe Ultra Kazes that push less air than that, and are VERY noisy. The decibel scale can be a bit confusing...
 

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p/p will enable you to lower speed some for the same cooling abilities, but it will still be louder in comparison to push or pull at a given rpm. P/p seems to have a big affect on sound acoustics in a negative way, its not so much the noise increase as it is the change in sound signature. Again, you aren't gaining much by putting p/p fans on such a slim rad. A slim rad just doesn't represent a large enough restriction for p/p to offer a significant cooling advantage. If its really high fpi(if you have the rad measure it for yourself) you might stand to gain a little more. From my experience a really good fan in push or pull is the optimal configuration anytime noise is a concern on such a slim rad. And yeah, a fan controller is a must with high rpm fans.
 

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Aaron also makes a very good point, really high rpm fans do not run at really low speeds for when your computer is at idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
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Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

Just be careful as some higher RPM fans do not like running at such a low speed (ticking, etc.), and some of them won't even start to spin at such low speed/voltage. Really, I will say those industrial Noctuas are way overkill...I have a stack of old Scythe Ultra Kazes that push less air than that, and are VERY noisy. The decibel scale can be a bit confusing...
I know; decibel scale is logarithmic
smile.gif
The joke with Noctuas is that those use a continuous power delivery to the fan motor by three-phase motor design and what they call "Smooth Commutation Drive (SCD) technology, which suppresses PWM switching noises and thus makes the fan quieter at lower speeds.". Minimum running speed is 800 RPM, which is usually what I was running all Noctuas super-silent. With more efficient blades than my old A14 FLX, I'll have more than enough power I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

p/p will enable you to lower speed some for the same cooling abilities, but it will still be louder in comparison to push or pull at a given rpm. P/p seems to have a big affect on sound acoustics in a negative way, its not so much the noise increase as it is the change in sound signature. Again, you aren't gaining much by putting p/p fans on such a slim rad. A slim rad just doesn't represent a large enough restriction for p/p to offer a significant cooling advantage. If its really high fpi(if you have the rad measure it for yourself) you might stand to gain a little more. From my experience a really good fan in push or pull is the optimal configuration anytime noise is a concern on such a slim rad. And yeah, a fan controller is a must with high rpm fans.
So I should only go with a single fan layer then. I presume that will do?
smile.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toncij View Post

So I should only go with a single fan layer then. I presume that will do?
smile.gif
personally i think it will. Unless its a very high fpi rad(i'm very curious if it is) i don't think you stand gain a whole lot of from p/p other than noise. If you're chasing every last degree of cooling and can stand some extra noise then maybe it is. That is the choice you'll have to make.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm chasing silence and performance, but if the config of pp will do more damage than good, no. It's H115i (H110i GTX ex or something like that, just rebranded for 2016). Not really a thick radiator.
Going for closed loop AIO, maintenance is not an option. Otherwise I'd go with some custom loop ekwb.
 

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push with a good set of fans is the way to go then. I think you'll be very happy with that setup.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toncij View Post

I'm chasing silence and performance.....
Going for closed loop AIO, maintenance is not an option. Otherwise I'd go with some custom loop ekwb.
Then you should really be looking at the Swiftech H240-X2, if you can live with 3 years maintenance free. Lower noise, better performance and the performance at like noise levels is worlds apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
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Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Then you should really be looking at the Swiftech H240-X2, if you can live with 3 years maintenance free. Lower noise, better performance and the performance at like noise levels is worlds apart.
Yeah, I've noticed that one is being preented as the best one. The problem is maintenance in about 3 years. This must be 100% hassle free; except for occasional dust vacuuming/brushing off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

push with a good set of fans is the way to go then. I think you'll be very happy with that setup.
Pull sounds even better in this context; is there an argument for push against pull?

One radiator will go to the top and one to the front (vertical mount).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Now rethinking about the fanst... Stock are 41dB on 100% at 1100 RPM giving ~4mm pressure. (According to some info for SP140L which are included). That sounds noisy AF.
It seems that those Noctuas will give more pressure and less noise being 41dB at 3000 declared.

Keep in mind I need to cool 5960X and future Broadwell-E with it, overclocked.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toncij View Post

Pull sounds even better in this context; is there an argument for push against pull?

One radiator will go to the top and one to the front (vertical mount).
Both perform about the same and will sound about the same. Go with whichever configuration suits your build.

Keep in mind manufacturer db ratings are done off rad in free air from a certain distance. The corsair fans that get bundled with the aio will be much noisier on the rad, its a common complaint.

Sound signature is more important than dba imo. You can have a quieter fan that makes an annoying noise or a louder one that has a more pleasant noise. Hard to account for this without hearing the fans in person though. You just have to research it and get peoples opinions on whatever fan you want to use and hope for the best. My corsair sp120s sounded absolutely awful above 1800rpm. My EK F4ER vardars sound very nice above 1800rpm. Both were roughly equal in the actual loudness and manufacturers rated dba levels were very similar.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
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Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

and you dont want to use voltage control on pwm fans. get 3pin fans and use your fan controller.buy some good cougar fans. theres no point in spending $20-30 per fan. youre talking about cooling a single cpu and single gpu with a 280 rad per...
Yes, I know. The problem is: Asus AI software is crappy and of course, doesn't work on Linux. Also, BIOS control is unpredictable (at least it was so far) and I get annoyed by fans spinning like crazy for no reason (100%) until I reboot. I'd like to move it all to a fan controller and control all radiator fans that way. Sentry 3 I'm looking to get can accept a 4-pin, which I presume, means it will either use PWM signaling to control a 4-pin or just ignore a PWM pin and use voltage. Either way should work fine I guess. I know I need to be careful not to keep them too low and burn the CPU, but that's fine.
smile.gif
 

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Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

no, dont use voltage control on pwm fans. its bad for the fans and kills them prematurely. use voltage control fans or buy an aquero for pwm fans and pumps.
I think I want the pump at its max so that can be a 3pin anyway or default motherboard connection as Corsair suggests?

Ok, so, generally, "aquaero 6 XT USB fan controller" could be a good one, but there seems to be no reason to require a pwm one - there is an opinion that voltage control won't do damage to pwm fans.
 
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