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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Hey there everyone,

I posted this in the BF4 thread, but as I know how fast threads move, I feel that this information can be used for some potential customers of BF4 and/or some people who might have concerns about certain performances they've seen online.

Update April 2014:The Nvidia drivers came out so I decided to do some benches on that too! Please check out my separate thread for that:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1480050/new-nvidia-337-50-drivers-battlefield-4-benchmarks-ht-on-vs-off-win8-1-vs-win7

I did tests on the BETA and now as the game has been released I have been doing tests on the final version.
There's a few things that have CHANGED since the BETA with my system:
-I have upgraded the RAM from 8GB to 16GB -> this however shouldn't affect any of the benchmarks
-I have upgraded from win8 to win 8.1 -> that's made no difference to performance (I did tests before and after on the final release)
-I have realised that you can UNPARK CORES: All benches on win7 and win8.1 for the final build are with unparked cores.
A guide to unparking cores can be found HERE. This resulted in a 5-10FPS difference in the max I was able to attain.

ALL benchmarks that are BETA related will be annotated AND will be in a "spoiler" dropdown. This will avoid confusion and aid in seeing the differences between the BETA and the final release of the game.

Here's a summary of the results and my opinions of win8 / 8.1 vs win7 & HT ON vs OFF:
-Win8 / 8.1 uses MORE CPU usage
-Win8 / 8.1 has a more steady GPU usage (closer to 100% than win7)
-Win 8 / 8.1's FPS' is slightly higher than win7
-Win 8/ 8.1 has FAR MORE BF4.exe crashes
-HT affects BOTH win7 and win8 and HT has an extremely POSITIVE affect on your gaming performance. However, unlike the BETA where without HT one would stutter, you have NO STUTTERING with HT OFF. Thus i5 users will be pleased to know that performance has been drastically increased in that respect. If you have the chance and/or money to buy an i7, I would highly suggest it for the lower stress BF4 puts your CPU under (HT OFF caused an increase of 20-40% on the CPU threads)

Before I get into anything - this thread will be split in two sections:
1. Hyper Threading ON vs OFF on my i7 3770k
2. Win7 64bit vs Win8 / 8.1 64bit Pro

I should note that ALL tests were done on 64p maps that were full with at least 60p or more.

I would also like to specify that these tests were all done via the same conditions, by that I mean the patches that were released for BF4 were the same on either OS. Therefore if a patch was supposed to fix any stuttering problems and so on, then it would have made no difference to my comparison of the OS's.

Now let's get into my PC specs:
Both OS's run on the same PC - the ONLY difference is how they're installed.

So the general, relevant PC specs are:
  • I7 3770k @ 4.5ghz OC
  • MSI GTX680 Twin Frozr III OC
  • 8GB (16GB for the benches of the full release) Corsair Vengeance RAM @ 1600mhz 9-9-9-24 2N
  • Asus Sabertooth Z77
  • Win7 runs on my Corsair Force GT SSD
  • Win8 runs on my Samsung HDD - 32mb Cache, 7200RPM, SATA 2, 1TB

I can very confidently say that the game loads FASTER on my SSD, but apart from that, everything else is indifferent (game wise) - the reason I state this is because some might comment on boot speed etc, but that's completely irrelevant when it comes to BF4 FPS'.
If you want a Win7 vs Win8 comparison, this isn't the thread for you and you can find many reviews out there of the OS' and a comparison between both. If you personally ask me - I utterly hate Windows8, no idea what MS were thinking and I'm just glad I didn't waste my time installing Win8 on my SSD (wiping Win7 in the process).

Here's a video of what I wrote about below, with some nice gameplay added in!

Now with some data:
PART 1 - Hyper threading vs non-hyper threading

This was quite simple to do and the reason I did it was because I was asked to try and see if those extra 4 threads made any difference.
To simply disable HT - I went into the BIOS and disabled HT on my I7 3770k - thus effectively rendering it an I5 3570k at heart - as pretty much the only difference between the two CPU's, those extra 4 threads.
GPU before starting and within the game HT is ON: Huge dips is me ALT+TABing
Before:


With HT ENABLED:


With HT DISABLED:
I had stutters periodically (explains the spikes)





As you can see from the above screenshots - on Windows 7 64 bit, hyper threading made a HUGE difference.
The CPU was bottlenecking the GPU and thus causing the GPU to stutter (spike).
I found this quite shocking to see, as it was the first time I've personally come across a game that heavily hogs resources and actually justifies buying an i7 over an i5.
I personally bought an i7 to future-proof AND because I video render a hell of a lot - so now it just solidifies my purchase a little more.

Here's my video explanation on it:


With HT ENABLED on Windows 7






With HT DISABLED on Windows 7







With HT ENABLED on Windows 8.1




With HT DISABLED on Windows 8.1






What I noted from the BETA was that there was no longer ANY stuttering with HT OFF on my i7. During the BETA, I experienced a lot of stuttering and the GPU spiking. This was no longer the case and great news for i5 users and/or people that don't have HT.
With that said, you'll be able to see the CPU USAGE with HT OFF is considerably higher than when it is ON. HT ON thus gives the CPU more headroom. If you're contemplating a CPU with HT for BF4 - I would highly suggest investing in it. That's my honest opinion. Not a MUST but definitely something that might aid, especially in the future (with how gaming is progressing)

PART 2 - FPS variances between Win7 & Win8

All data was taken via FRAPS.
ALL the data was also via BF4 running on ULTRA @1080P pre-sets with a FOV @90 & motion blur @ 0, whilst in 64p MP games

Win 7:
2013-10-11 02:31:25 - bf4
Frames: 23912 - Time: 406585ms - Avg: 58.812 - Min: 26 - Max: 99

2013-10-11 02:41:14 - bf4
Frames: 23660 - Time: 399877ms - Avg: 59.168 - Min: 40 - Max: 101

2013-10-13 15:44:21 - bf4
Frames: 9459 - Time: 163302ms - Avg: 57.923 - Min: 34 - Max: 91

2013-10-13 15:48:43 - bf4
Frames: 9185 - Time: 158388ms - Avg: 57.991 - Min: 39 - Max: 89

2013-10-13 15:53:38 - bf4
Frames: 4342 - Time: 78546ms - Avg: 55.280 - Min: 40 - Max: 74

2013-10-13 16:06:57 - bf4
Frames: 2049 - Time: 36379ms - Avg: 56.324 - Min: 37 - Max: 77
Win 8:
2013-10-11 01:13:27 - bf4
Frames: 42126 - Time: 682000ms - Avg: 61.768 - Min: 30 - Max: 112

2013-10-11 01:28:35 - bf4
Frames: 32742 - Time: 574390ms - Avg: 57.003 - Min: 17 - Max: 82

2013-10-11 01:45:38 - bf4
Frames: 30794 - Time: 506703ms - Avg: 60.773 - Min: 29 - Max: 111

2013-10-11 01:54:06 - bf4
Frames: 17003 - Time: 289344ms - Avg: 58.764 - Min: 37 - Max: 94

2013-10-13 13:33:28 - bf4
Frames: 46847 - Time: 784000ms - Avg: 59.754 - Min: 13 - Max: 116

2013-10-13 13:46:41 - bf4
Frames: 7023 - Time: 118703ms - Avg: 59.164 - Min: 35 - Max: 90

2013-10-13 13:55:02 - bf4
Frames: 43316 - Time: 749984ms - Avg: 57.756 - Min: 24 - Max: 109
A little irrelevant, but it's a shame to get rid of data and not use it - here's win7 WITH Vsync on adaptive + 3x buffering enabled:
2013-10-11 02:09:37 - bf4
Frames: 27806 - Time: 489625ms - Avg: 56.790 - Min: 33 - Max: 65

2013-10-11 02:22:34 - bf4
Frames: 2277 - Time: 42807ms - Avg: 53.192 - Min: 32 - Max: 64

Now here's something for you visual learners (including myself which like seeing graphs and not numbers):





Now looking at the above information a few things can be drawn out:
  • Windows 8 performs better by around 5FPS
  • Windows 8 has huge variances in FPS min and max comparisons with Win7
  • Windows 7 is more consistent
Now hopefully, that's settled for most of you. I understand that win7 / 8 can run differently on other PC's, but for me, it is clear that the difference between win7 and win8 is negligible.
Outside BF4, I utterly HATE the look and feel of Win8 and the integration of Win8 and because of that, I'll be sticking to Win7. I don't see the point in having Win8 as my primary driver when it provides me with no extra performance boosts and generally frustrates me using the OS.

Here's a video of both Win7 and Win8 footage and my explanation I listed above:
Finally to round this off:

Here's a print screen of how BF4 BETA was looking like on my GPU & CPU:
Win7:


Win8:


As you can see from the above screenshot - Win8 seems to have been running more smoothly on the GPU side of things, but on the CPU side of things was heavily hogging the PC's resources.
Win7 was using around 40-60% of the CPU's threads whilst Win8 was using over 80% most of the time. It's a little worrying to see that to be honest. As this could cause lead to stuttering problems for certain users on i5's and Windows 8.

Win 7:
2013-11-01 02:02:13 - bf4
Frames: 16868 - Time: 208886ms - Avg: 80.752 - Min: 23 - Max: 168

2013-11-01 02:06:30 - bf4
Frames: 24515 - Time: 401515ms - Avg: 61.056 - Min: 32 - Max: 102

2013-11-01 02:20:42 - bf4
Frames: 5816 - Time: 95831ms - Avg: 60.690 - Min: 27 - Max: 81

2013-11-01 23:14:12 - bf4
Frames: 29951 - Time: 428551ms - Avg: 69.889 - Min: 32 - Max: 145

2013-11-01 23:24:10 - bf4
Frames: 82714 - Time: 1237837ms - Avg: 66.821 - Min: 16 - Max: 190

2013-11-04 17:38:08 - bf4
Frames: 25243 - Time: 362452ms - Avg: 69.645 - Min: 33 - Max: 95

2013-11-04 22:41:19 - bf4
Frames: 5614 - Time: 66690ms - Avg: 84.181 - Min: 49 - Max: 107

2013-11-06 22:10:26 - bf4
Frames: 13096 - Time: 197513ms - Avg: 66.304 - Min: 44 - Max: 102

2013-11-10 21:16:53 - bf4
Frames: 28075 - Time: 418021ms - Avg: 67.162 - Min: 32 - Max: 118

2013-11-10 21:26:10 - bf4
Frames: 25635 - Time: 395790ms - Avg: 64.769 - Min: 39 - Max: 108

2013-11-10 23:04:32 - bf4
Frames: 30762 - Time: 400626ms - Avg: 76.785 - Min: 28 - Max: 135

2013-11-10 23:23:25 - bf4
Frames: 45869 - Time: 564583ms - Avg: 81.244 - Min: 32 - Max: 138

2013-11-10 23:37:38 - bf4
Frames: 18370 - Time: 281785ms - Avg: 65.192 - Min: 29 - Max: 112

2013-11-10 23:45:00 - bf4
Frames: 16048 - Time: 244407ms - Avg: 65.661 - Min: 43 - Max: 92



Win 8.1:
2013-11-07 21:42:30 - bf4
Frames: 11566 - Time: 125531ms - Avg: 92.137 - Min: 27 - Max: 187

2013-11-07 21:48:48 - bf4
Frames: 19597 - Time: 262625ms - Avg: 74.620 - Min: 46 - Max: 117

2013-11-07 22:01:15 - bf4
Frames: 29085 - Time: 407485ms - Avg: 71.377 - Min: 37 - Max: 114

2013-11-07 22:09:33 - bf4
Frames: 12470 - Time: 168578ms - Avg: 73.972 - Min: 47 - Max: 112

2013-11-07 22:14:19 - bf4
Frames: 13393 - Time: 193344ms - Avg: 69.270 - Min: 36 - Max: 133

2013-11-07 22:25:25 - bf4
Frames: 30160 - Time: 386985ms - Avg: 77.936 - Min: 24 - Max: 201

2013-11-07 22:32:39 - bf4
Frames: 65551 - Time: 1035890ms - Avg: 63.280 - Min: 37 - Max: 99

2013-11-07 22:50:03 - bf4
Frames: 28193 - Time: 446469ms - Avg: 63.147 - Min: 43 - Max: 126

2013-11-07 23:05:00 - bf4
Frames: 22278 - Time: 352484ms - Avg: 63.203 - Min: 33 - Max: 97

2013-11-07 23:14:06 - bf4
Frames: 56721 - Time: 844797ms - Avg: 67.142 - Min: 36 - Max: 136

2013-11-07 23:30:26 - bf4
Frames: 49373 - Time: 670063ms - Avg: 73.684 - Min: 45 - Max: 129

2013-11-07 23:45:20 - bf4
Frames: 66850 - Time: 950859ms - Avg: 70.305 - Min: 27 - Max: 108

2013-11-08 00:01:11 - bf4
Frames: 29164 - Time: 336985ms - Avg: 86.544 - Min: 50 - Max: 149

2013-11-10 19:55:39 - bf4
Frames: 48427 - Time: 637922ms - Avg: 75.914 - Min: 42 - Max: 136



Conclusions:
EXACTLY what I noted in the BETA. Same thing happens in the final release. No matter which patch, the results are consistently similar.
YES - FPS has INCREASED since the BETA and there is absolutely no stuttering with HT ON nor with HT OFF (on either OS), this is a definite improvement over the BETA.

Again, for people stating "ERMAGAD Win8 / 8.1 solves all my problems and gives me 80FPS whilst Win 7 gave me 40FPS" - I can't stress enough how wrong that is.
There's LESS than 5-10FPS difference between win7 and win8 8.1.

I'm sticking and GAMING on Win7 and extremely happy with the performance it gives. GG Win8.1

Win 7 Means (FPS):
Min: 32.78571429
Max: 120.9285714
Avg: 70.01078571

Win 8 Means (FPS):
Min: 37.85714286
Max: 131.7142857
Avg: 73.03792857







Hope this post is useful for a lot of you!
-Dubbed
 

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Thanks! I'm glad I got a 4770k after my 4670k fried. You made me feel a little better about the purchase.
biggrin.gif
I've been hearing a lot about Win8 performing a lot better, but seeing this I'll stick with Win7. 5fps is "big deal" to me, however seeing the major, major spikes I still won't switch. I'd rather have less random spikes with Win7 and slightly less fps.
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

Thanks! I'm glad I got a 4770k after my 4670k fried. You made me feel a little better about the purchase.
biggrin.gif
I've been hearing a lot about Win8 performing a lot better, but seeing this I'll stick with Win7. 5fps is "big deal" to me, however seeing the major, major spikes I still won't switch. I'd rather have less random spikes with Win7 and slightly less fps.
Depends from each PC to another, don't forget!
My point I was mainly trying to make from this thread is: You don't NEED win8 to have a smooth gameplay and/or 60FPS with a capable rig.

The whole of the BF4 exploded with Win8 comments.
So now I've settled that for my own good, people can see their results and mine and can be their own judge
smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Great work
smile.gif


To better deal with windows 8 download start8 and become very comfortable use Windows + E and Windows + x
I have "start is back" and I still can't reason with: "I need a 3rd party program to boot to where I want"
When Win7 does that automatically for me.
As for the shortcuts - yeah useful, but I have all my shortcuts I need programmed to my G710+
smile.gif
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arm3nian View Post

Windows 8 is a failure. You should update this to include Windows 8.1
thumb.gif
When it FULLY is out, I'll get the free win8.1 upgrade and see how that goes.
I just got the HDD out of my PC (win8 one).
When the game is out + win8.1 is out I'll put the HDD back and do some more tests
thumb.gif
 

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1. Were these tests done before or after the big CPU performance patch?

2. Where are the W8 HT on/off graphs?

Maraface Eye found ZERO difference on his i7 4770K in W8.

Now here's what I find interesting. Your GPU usage graphs dip...only slightly, but they do dip. Your 3770K has HT, but my 4670K is showing better GPU usage.

BF34670Kstock.jpg


Not trying to troll, but it seems to me an i5 Haswell is better for this game than an i7 Ivy Bridge. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something. Also, my chip was @ stock speeds.
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodiuh View Post

1. Were these tests done before or after the big CPU performance patch?

2. Where are the W8 HT on/off graphs?

Maraface Eye found ZERO difference on his i7 4770K in W8.

Now here's what I find interesting. Your GPU usage graphs dip...only slightly, but they do dip. Your 3770K has HT, but my 4670K is showing better GPU usage.

Not trying to troll, but it seems to me an i5 Haswell is better for this game than an i7 Ivy Bridge. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something. Also, my chip was @ stock speeds.
1. All were done after patch 1-2. These were on patch 3-4.
2. HT was ALWAYS ON - I never get HT off. Only got it off for that one test that you were begging me for - that never got appreciated!
3. i5 won't be better than an i7 - from what I've found. Be it Haswell, Ivy or SB. Your system is completely different from mine - so it might no correlate the same way - ie. I'm on a 680.
 

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I've basically had the opposite results under patch 3-4 (or whichever was the latest on the 12th) and windows 8, but similar results with Windows 7 during the initial release. When the beta was first released I was running Windows 7 and hyper-threading made a pretty big difference in performance and reduced my dips and increased my overall FPS quite significantly. I switched to Windows 8 after seeing a friend's performance and narrowing it down to the OS.

I did a test on an empty conquest large server and ran down the road in the same place with HT on and off and used fraps to benchmark and a secondary computer with a capture card to record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7Uub_GNw4

Results:
HT ON - Min 155, Max 199, Avg 177
HT OFF - Min 182, Max 221, Avg 200

Specs / Settings:
I'm using a 4770K @ 4.6 with 2x4GB of 2400Mhz memory and a GTX670 at 1250Mhz
Settings in-game are low including some console commands to disable and lower everything as much as possible.
 

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i dunno i just did a upgrade to windows 8 pro from 7ultimate and im am not only seeing way better fps on this beta of bf4, but in general my whole internet connect seems way better. maybe im just a minority but im all for it.
 

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TotallydubbedHD on YT
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90N1NE View Post

I've basically had the opposite results under patch 3-4 (or whichever was the latest on the 12th) and windows 8, but similar results with Windows 7 during the initial release. When the beta was first released I was running Windows 7 and hyper-threading made a pretty big difference in performance and reduced my dips and increased my overall FPS quite significantly. I switched to Windows 8 after seeing a friend's performance and narrowing it down to the OS.

I did a test on an empty conquest large server and ran down the road in the same place with HT on and off and used fraps to benchmark and a secondary computer with a capture card to record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7Uub_GNw4

Results:
HT ON - Min 155, Max 199, Avg 177
HT OFF - Min 182, Max 221, Avg 200

Specs / Settings:
I'm using a 4770K @ 4.6 with 2x4GB of 2400Mhz memory and a GTX670 at 1250Mhz
Settings in-game are low including some console commands to disable and lower everything as much as possible.
the problem with your test is that you didn't try it in a 64p map.
I should actually specify that - all my data was on 64p maps.

As for why HT gave you a LOWER FPS - that's beyond me lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deegan View Post

i dunno i just did a upgrade to windows 8 pro from 7ultimate and im am not only seeing way better fps on this beta of bf4, but in general my whole internet connect seems way better. maybe im just a minority but im all for it.
Internet connection has got to do with drivers - nothing else.
I in fact had worse internet on WIn8 due to win8 "cleverly" installing its drivers on its own.
I had to uninstall the drivers, and then reinstall them via my TPLINK CD in order to get a stable / better connection on Win 8
 

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I experience the same. Without ht bf4 is unplayable on my main system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I experience the same. Without ht bf4 is unplayable on my main system.
thanks for sharing your experience. Any ideas why it does not like being played without ht? By that I mean do you have stuttering and/or high CPU usage, like shown in the OP?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

thanks for sharing your experience. Any ideas why it does not like being played without ht? By that I mean do you have stuttering and/or high CPU usage, like shown in the OP?
My 3770k without ht runs about 90-95% across all cores. A grenade or just a quick action results into stuttering or low fps. Even a single 7970 get bottlenecks with ht off. 3770k with ht on is like my 3930k flawless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

My 3770k without ht runs about 90-95% across all cores. A grenade or just a quick action results into stuttering or low fps. Even a single 7970 get bottlenecks with ht off. 3770k with ht on is like my 3930k flawless.
nice to know! Thanks for sharing
 

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First 3930k second 3770k. As you can see bf4 use all the available threads. On my tests the game crash with 4gb ram with 8gb is fine and with 16 gb is way better. Also it use all the available page file.

Sad that i dont have a graph from ht off on my 3770k

All the runs was on full 64 man server with a single 7970
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
^Nice!
Yeah I'm getting my 8GB back that I gave for my mum's rig - waiting for some corsair ram to come in from America, then I'll put 8GB on my mum's PC and be back on 16GB myself!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arm3nian View Post

The quad cores w/o HT are going to go out of style real soon. All future games are going to utilize more threads like BF4, and with HT you basically double your performance for an extra $100.
I agree - the difference between an i7 and i5 won't be HT any more, but probably cores at the same price difference between the two.
Who knows, we shall see!
 
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