[Void-Ray]

hi i have a few questions i would be happy if anyone can help me here im kinda having a dilemma because ive seen many horrible pictures of coolant corrosion gunk and ... well this is my first time of using any kind of water cooling system i just saw a few videos read a few posts and ended up with custom loop because ive heard they are better than closed loops but obviously its not just an easy task there are many things that should be considered which im not familiar with like the first thing is i dont know about zalman coolant but i got one here now i dont know if its ok to use it i can only get my hands on xspc or zalman stuff and currently i have zalman ZM-G200, so how safe is it to use it on my loop? block will be raystorm on i7 3930k so it will not run on the whole system and i dont think it will be running too hot right? or does it even matter for the coolant if its gonna run hot or hotter? like 50 degree or 80 degree? will it affect anything on coolant?
and what kind of coolant is better to use now? only distilled water? or coolant is needed?
and between xspc and zalman which is better depending on temp transferring and those corrosion or other problems?
and if i use this zalman will there be any problem with it?
and the last one is how can i change the color of these coolant? because where im buying them from is a local store they are buying these from somewhere else and they were out of stock for blood red coolant of xspc so is there any safe way to change their color?
any help will be appreciated thanks

 

[pc-illiterate]

mayhem is apparently the best dye, no staining or gunking.
dont use coolant. use distilled water and a silver coil. you shouldnt have any problems as long as you have no aluminum in your loop.
someone will correct me if im wrong on any point.

 

[Whalemeal]

Galvanic corrosion may be an issue if you're going for distilled water + silver route. If one of your WC parts contains aluminium (I hope not), it can be really ugly in very short time. Corrosion may be a problem even with mix of copper and nickel plating. Search for the hot debate a couple of years ago over nickel plated EK water blocks.

Anyways, if your loop has only copper/brass parts, distilled water + silver + mayhem dye seems to be the best option provided that you drain and refill your coolant every 6 months or so.

BTW, if you already bought your coolant, then just stick with it for a while. There is no meaningful difference between those coolants in the market. So no need to spend extra money. Also, don't try to add dye to your aftermarket coolant unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Finally, your water temp should not exceed 50 degree C. (and will not if you set your loop correctly)

 

[pc-illiterate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whalemeal

Finally, your water temp should not exceed 50 degree C. (and will not if you set your loop correctly)

50* when? that would all depend on components and amount of components and ambients and overclocking and voltages and etc.
that was a pretty definitive statement for such a broad range of variables.

 

[Void-Ray]

thank you both guys REP+ for both of you that helped
here what i have in here
CPU block: raystorm http://www.xs-pc.com/products/waterblocks/cpu-waterblocks/raystorm-cpu-waterblock-intel/
XSPC tubing http://www.xs-pc.com/products/watercooling-tubing/12-id-34-od-high-flex-hose/2004-2/
zalman coolant http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Product_Read.php?Idx=170
and fittings http://www.xs-pc.com/products/fittings/hose-fittings/g14-to-12-id-34-od-compression-fitting/
i already have those things i bought them before

and what im ordering now is
XSPC AX240 rad http://www.xs-pc.com/products/radiators/ax-120mm-series-radiators/ax240-dual-fan-radiator-black/
probably AX120 http://www.xs-pc.com/products/radiators/ax-120mm-series-radiators/ax120-single-fan-radiator-black/
but im thinking more about RX120 instead of AX120 and this is RX120 http://www.xs-pc.com/products/radiators/rx-series/rx120-single-fan-radiator/
Quote:

Galvanic corrosion may be an issue if you're going for distilled water + silver route.

so from what i know i dont really have any aluminium in here right? how about i just buy colored tubings? so if i use distilled water and silver coil it will produce corrosion?
Quote:

Anyways, if your loop has only copper/brass parts, distilled water + silver + mayhem dye seems to be the best option provided that you drain and refill your coolant every 6 months or so.

or is it ok to go with distilled water and silver coil? thanks again

 

[pc-illiterate]

distilled and a kill coil is what 'most' users run.
where are you buying the ax240 from? from what i gathered the ax series are higher fin per inch rads needing higher rpm fans. since youre planning to use a 40mm thick rad, the alphacool xt45 is a great rad. im asking only because most people with watercooling are after quieter systems.
i'll be buying an xt45 320 when i buy my gpu block. my 2500k at 4.5ghz and voltage at 1.35v runs 7-* cooler and quieter than my old h100 did. and i used the k2 tim that came with the raystorm. i couldnt be bothered at the time to dig out my antec 7...
either way looks like a good loop in my nub opinion. what about your pump and res ?

 

[47 Knucklehead]

I've used FluidXP+ before. It was good stuff, but for the loop I ran, it took me about $90 to fill up (3 bottles).

I then switched to using a $1 gallon of distilled water, a $7 silver "kill coil", and about 1/5th a bottle of $10 Mayhem Dye. To me, it looked and worked just as good as the FluidXP+.

In one of my loops I don't run any dye at all, just distilled and a kill coil. There is no temperature difference between Distilled and Distilled + Dye.

In one of my rigs, I started using the Mayhem Pastel dye, which is totally opaque. It costs more (a little less than FluidXP+, but more than distilled + dye). It runs about 2-3C hotter than just distilled water, but it looks SO much nicer (for the look I was going for ... but I also like the look of distilled and dye).

Mayhem also makes another product called "Aurora", which looks TOTALLY wild, but it is my understanding that it really wasn't designed for 24/7 long term use.

In addition to "Silver Kill Coils", you can also use a "Biocide". It's a liquid and you put like 1-2 drops per liter (depending on manufacturer) and that basically takes the place of the "Silver" to keep biological growths out. I really can't tell the difference between the 2 products (and if you get the Mayhem Pastel or Mayhem Aurora, you don't need either ... or the FluidXP+ coolant).

As far as "gunking up" blocks, most people have issues with their tubing doing what is called "Plasticizer", where basically because of the chemical make up of the tubing, it causes a reaction that builds up in the loop. That is why some people use higher end tubing like Durelene, Primochill LRT, or such.

 

[Whalemeal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc-illiterate

50* when? that would all depend on components and amount of components and ambients and overclocking and voltages and etc.
that was a pretty definitive statement for such a broad range of variables.

Well I'm assuming 25 C room temp. >20 degrees air-water delta T is not what most people want for water cooling. I think most common (and desirable) target for air-water delta is around 10 C. So if your water is running at higher than 50C, that means you need more radiator. Also, most of the tubes in the market is not rated for >50 C temp.

 

[Void-Ray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc-illiterate

distilled and a kill coil is what 'most' users run.
where are you buying the ax240 from? from what i gathered the ax series are higher fin per inch rads needing higher rpm fans. since youre planning to use a 40mm thick rad, the alphacool xt45 is a great rad. im asking only because most people with watercooling are after quieter systems.
i'll be buying an xt45 320 when i buy my gpu block. my 2500k at 4.5ghz and voltage at 1.35v runs 7-* cooler and quieter than my old h100 did. and i used the k2 tim that came with the raystorm. i couldnt be bothered at the time to dig out my antec 7...
either way looks like a good loop in my nub opinion. what about your pump and res ?

well im not really sure im just ordering them from a local store i friend of mine introduced that store to me but from what i've guessed they are buying them from somewhere on china a website or somewhere they were also saying something about XSPC stock in london which is their next option if they couldnt get me blood red from their usual place but i think i might cancel that blood red coolant and just order red tubing and use it with distilled water and that silver coil you mentioned and oh yes sorry i frogot that im using X20 750 here http://www.xs-pc.com/products/pumps/x2o-750-dual-bayrespump-black-v4/
they told me the pump included on this is enough for my loop
and im gonna use 3 tb vegas for my fans i just like their light effect
and currently im running i7 3930k at 4.5GHz with 1.376V with silver arrow SB-E and under prime95 test it hitting 83 on my hottest core in your experience sir how much of that heat will go away in that loop that im aiming for? thanks again sorry for too many questions
and BTW as i said as for now i can only get my hands on XSPC and zalman products and that sucks

 

[Void-Ray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead

I've used FluidXP+ before. It was good stuff, but for the loop I ran, it took me about $90 to fill up (3 bottles).

I then switched to using a $1 gallon of distilled water, a $7 silver "kill coil", and about 1/5th a bottle of $10 Mayhem Dye. To me, it looked and worked just as good as the FluidXP+.

In one of my loops I don't run any dye at all, just distilled and a kill coil. There is no temperature difference between Distilled and Distilled + Dye.

In one of my rigs, I started using the Mayhem Pastel dye, which is totally opaque. It costs more (a little less than FluidXP+, but more than distilled + dye). It runs about 2-3C hotter than just distilled water, but it looks SO much nicer (for the look I was going for ... but I also like the look of distilled and dye).

Mayhem also makes another product called "Aurora", which looks TOTALLY wild, but it is my understanding that it really wasn't designed for 24/7 long term use.

In addition to "Silver Kill Coils", you can also use a "Biocide". It's a liquid and you put like 1-2 drops per liter (depending on manufacturer) and that basically takes the place of the "Silver" to keep biological growths out. I really can't tell the difference between the 2 products (and if you get the Mayhem Pastel or Mayhem Aurora, you don't need either ... or the FluidXP+ coolant).

As far as "gunking up" blocks, most people have issues with their tubing doing what is called "Plasticizer", where basically because of the chemical make up of the tubing, it causes a reaction that builds up in the loop. That is why some people use higher end tubing like Durelene, Primochill LRT, or such.

so from my understanding of what you're saying sir in my options the best way for me is to go with distilled water and silver coil http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/Silver-Anti-Algae-Kill-Coil_25522.html and just close the case cover so the coloring wont be any matter if i want to just keep it safe right? cuz im not sure if i can get those mayhem dye so easy and im just gonna skip that getting colored tube is easier i guess

but i will ask tomorrow if they have or can get those mayhem dye things
and about that "biocide" thing should i use both of just one of them? i mean should i use silver coil or biocide or both of them? or which is better? should i change that silver coil from time to time like coolant too or i should just put one for all the time on my loop? thanks

 

[pc-illiterate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whalemeal

Well I'm assuming 25 C room temp. >20 degrees air-water delta T is not what most people want for water cooling. I think most common (and desirable) target for air-water delta is around 10 C. So if your water is running at higher than 50C, that means you need more radiator. Also, most of the tubes in the market is not rated for >50 C temp.

im lost on the 10* delta thing. i am reading and learning as much as i can though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

and currently im running i7 3930k at 4.5GHz with 1.376V with silver arrow SB-E and under prime95 test it hitting 83 on my hottest core in your experience sir how much of that heat will go away in that loop that im aiming for? thanks again sorry for too many questions

thats not my question to answer.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

and BTW as i said as for now i can only get my hands on XSPC and zalman products and that sucks

yeah, that stinks for you. where ARE you located? any way you can get the raystorm d5 pump kit and sell what you dont need?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

should i change that silver coil from time to time like coolant too or i should just put one for all the time on my loop? thanks

the kill coil is good til it 'dissolves'.

*EDIT* removed my questions of over nubness.

 

[47 Knucklehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

so from my understanding of what you're saying sir in my options the best way for me is to go with distilled water and silver coil http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/Silver-Anti-Algae-Kill-Coil_25522.html and just close the case cover so the coloring wont be any matter if i want to just keep it safe right? cuz im not sure if i can get those mayhem dye so easy and im just gonna skip that getting colored tube is easier i guess

but i will ask tomorrow if they have or can get those mayhem dye things
and about that "biocide" thing should i use both of just one of them? i mean should i use silver coil or biocide or both of them? or which is better? should i change that silver coil from time to time like coolant too or i should just put one for all the time on my loop? thanks

If you don't care about looks, then just go with distilled water and either a Silver Kill Coil -OR- a Biocide (one or the other).

The silver will last you for years. The biocide will last you for as long as the water is there ... which I typically change my water every 3-4 months, just because it's so cheap, and when I do, I just add 1-2 drops and I'm done.

 

[Void-Ray]

Quote:

yeah, that stinks for you. where ARE you located? any way you can get the raystorm d5 pump kit and sell what you dont need?

yeah totally! in a damn country named iran! i can change my order i have time for changing radiator and pump so should i go with D5 pump and another reservoir?
Quote:

the kill coil is good til it 'dissolves'.

thats good thanks

Quote:

If you don't care about looks, then just go with distilled water and either a Silver Kill Coil -OR- a Biocide (one or the other).

The silver will last you for years. The biocide will last you for as long as the water is there ... which I typically change my water every 3-4 months, just because it's so cheap, and when I do, I just add 1-2 drops and I'm done.

and thanks so i will go with distilled water and silver coil for me i think just colored tubes will do better i kinda care more about "clean" and "safe" more than i care about visual, not that i dont care about visual at all but i do put safety in primary so thanks for the info sir

 

[47 Knucklehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

and thanks so i will go with distilled water and silver coil for me i think just colored tubes will do better i kinda care more about "clean" and "safe" more than i care about visual, not that i dont care about visual at all but i do put safety in primary so thanks for the info sir

Well, as far as the issue of "colored tubing and clear water" vs "clear tubing and dyed water", I personally go the opposite way of many people would think (but not always).

The up side of colored tubing and not messing with dye is that it is simple to do. Just pick your colored tubing, install, and you are done. The down side is that typically, colored tubing is opaque and you can't see into it. This makes it a little bit harder to tell if and where you have a trapped air bubble.

With clear tubing and dye, there is more maintenance (you have to add dye), but since you can see the water (either clear or dyed) in your tubing, you can easily see if there is water flow and if and where there is a trapped bubble.

Just something to consider.

 

[Whalemeal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc-illiterate

im lost on the 10* delta thing. i am reading and learning as much as i can though.

.

Well. When you setup your WC, you target for ambient air - water delta T first. If you allow higher delta T, you can dissipate more heat energy given your radiator/fan setting fixed. So that's a trade-off. You can save money on radiators and fans if you're willing to tolerate higher delta T.

Read this article for your understanding.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277142-29-help-understand-water-delta

What respected people like Martin recommend is that you target for 10C delta T. You can see that his radiator testing uses 10 C delta T as a reference point. Some extreme people here targets for 5C or less.

 

[Void-Ray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead

Well, as far as the issue of "colored tubing and clear water" vs "clear tubing and dyed water", I personally go the opposite way of many people would think (but not always).

The up side of colored tubing and not messing with dye is that it is simple to do. Just pick your colored tubing, install, and you are done. The down side is that typically, colored tubing is opaque and you can't see into it. This makes it a little bit harder to tell if and where you have a trapped air bubble.

With clear tubing and dye, there is more maintenance (you have to add dye), but since you can see the water (either clear or dyed) in your tubing, you can easily see if there is water flow and if and where there is a trapped bubble.

Just something to consider.

so again changed my mind by what you said, i think i would go with my clear tubing which i already bought and have it here and just use water without dye see how it looks if it was good then its good if it wasnt good i might try some lights on the case or just shut the case cover so i wouldnt see the inside of it or just find a way to get those dyes but for now and from what you said sir i think first i will try clear water and tubes i might just order those colored tubes in case i needed it
thanks again

 

[pc-illiterate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whalemeal

Well. When you setup your WC, you target for ambient air - water delta T first. If you allow higher delta T, you can dissipate more heat energy given your radiator/fan setting fixed. So that's a trade-off. You can save money on radiators and fans if you're willing to tolerate higher delta T.

Read this article for your understanding.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277142-29-help-understand-water-delta

What respected people like Martin recommend is that you target for 10C delta T. You can see that his radiator testing uses 10 C delta T as a reference point. Some extreme people here targets for 5C or less.

yep, i read that and edited my post. guess i need to find a way to check my water temps. im just wondering if i got a good seat on my block. i have no idea how to get my coolant temp up to an equalized temp safely to compare a new p95 run to a previous run with an h100. i was maxing at 63* and after a 2(3?) hour run i was at 57* or so, maybe higher. i was a bit tired at the time.

 

[Whalemeal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc-illiterate

yep, i read that and edited my post. guess i need to find a way to check my water temps. im just wondering if i got a good seat on my block. i have no idea how to get my coolant temp up to an equalized temp safely to compare a new p95 run to a previous run with an h100. i was maxing at 63* and after a 2(3?) hour run i was at 57* or so, maybe higher. i was a bit tired at the time.

Generally, CPU temp is way higher than water temp. For moderately overclocked (Ivy bridge at 4.5 or sth) cpu, your water-cpu delta at full load (linx or intel burn) should be around 40~45 degrees. I guess a little lower for prime 95. So your water temp is unlikely to be higher than 35 degrees at full load.

FYI, there are two tiers of heat transfer in water cooling. First one is your cpu(or gpu) to water via water block. Second is your water to ambient air via radiator. What I've been talking about is the second one. The efficiency of the former depends purely on your water block. The efficiency of the latter depends on your radiator, fan and water flow rate.

 

[Void-Ray]

just another question should i get this one: http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Dual-750lph-Bay-Pump-Reservoir-V4-Black_35761.html
or is it better to buy these instead: http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/12V-Laing-D5-Fixed-Pump-TPP644-T12_25669.html
and http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Single-525-Bay-Reservoir-Alu-Front_25393.html
for now im just using the loop for cpu and im not sure about gpu or mainboard for now

 

[Whalemeal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Void-Ray

just another question should i get this one: http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Dual-750lph-Bay-Pump-Reservoir-V4-Black_35761.html
or is it better to buy these instead: http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/12V-Laing-D5-Fixed-Pump-TPP644-T12_25669.html
and http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Single-525-Bay-Reservoir-Alu-Front_25393.html
for now im just using the loop for cpu and im not sure about gpu or mainboard for now

The pump in the first one is much less powerful than the D5 pump. If you consider only cpu cooling, the first one should be fine. But it's always better to open up the possibility of upgrade

Even with added single gpu block, the XSPC pump-reservoir combo should be ok, but the flow rate will be a bit slow.