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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi!
I'm looking to buy a better cooler for my 3700x (with pbo enabled at 130/80/95 now) i'm hitting 85°C on synthetic tests and while doing raw->jpg photo conversions which is my main use.
With pbo at max settings i'm looking at higher temps but with no increase in performance due to thermal constraints.

Without PBO i'm at about 75°C max, but with lower all core speeds (noticeable in higher export time when doing 1000+ pictures).



I'm not looking for a cooler that has a little better thermal performance.



The idea is to buy a cooler that has headroom for a future 3950x.


If i have to set 2 price points: USD50 and USD90, what would you get?


I looked around and the Fuma 2 is on stock at USD60 and seems to be a good and quiet cpu cooler.
Or maybe there is another cooler with bigger fans and lower noise and better cooling capacity?


Also.. i know some coolers are concave and others convex and i'm afraid to get a cooler that does not have very good contact with the cpu.


Thanks!
 

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Hi!
I'm looking to buy a better cooler for my 3700x (with pbo enabled at 130/80/95 now) i'm hitting 85°C on synthetic tests and while doing raw->jpg photo conversions which is my main use.
With pbo at max settings i'm looking at higher temps but with no increase in performance due to thermal constraints.

Without PBO i'm at about 75°C max, but with lower all core speeds (noticeable in higher export time when doing 1000+ pictures).

I'm not looking for a cooler that has a little better thermal performance.

The idea is to buy a cooler that has headroom for a future 3950x.

If i have to set 2 price points: USD50 and USD90, what would you get?


I looked around and the Fuma 2 is on stock at USD60 and seems to be a good and quiet cpu cooler.
Or maybe there is another cooler with bigger fans and lower noise and better cooling capacity?

Also.. i know some coolers are concave and others convex and i'm afraid to get a cooler that does not have very good contact with the cpu.

Thanks!
We can't really make cooler recommendations without knowing what case, motherboard and RAM you are using as well as CPU. Any suggestions without knowing those things may or may not be usable in your system.
 

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Space Cadet
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If I was going to replace the wraith prism I would get the Noctua NH-U12A. I like the size and the fans it comes with, check out the review below if you want.

Non hyped over view.
 

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Above video review is a joke. First off NH-U12A is not a "big" cooler. It's a mid-size cooler measuring 128x112x158mm w/ fan (WxDxH). A big cooler is NH-D15 measurign 150x161x165mm w/ fan (WxDxH). We've seen that guy's work posted here before. Results are all over the place.
 

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Fix it till its broke
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YouTube should be for entertainment, some of the reviewers are entertaining, most of it I don’t take too seriously. At least not enough to post a link. Influencers be influencing lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We can't really make cooler recommendations without knowing what case, motherboard and RAM you are using as well as CPU. Any suggestions without knowing those things may or may not be usable in your system.

Currently i'm using the stock wraith cooler, and a Geforce 750ti (i do not need big gpu horsepower for the work i do... maybe in the distant future i will upgrade it but not now).


I've built the computer in my old case, because i ordered the phanteks eclipse p600s closed but it has not arrived yet due to the pandemic. I plan on using the 3 included phanteks fans in the intake and only add one 120mm fan i already have in the back as exhaust. One of the things that made me choose this case is dual operation (able to remove the front if i need more airflow), the included high quality fans and the big clearance for any cooler i might buy.

RAM is what i was able to get in my country: Corsair LPX 3000mhz 8x2 (CMK8GX4M1D3000C16), but the good thing is not tall so any cooler will fit. If i need to upgrade in the future i will always buy ram that is not tall.


Motherboard is an Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus WIFI.
 

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Space Cadet
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Above video review is a joke. First off NH-U12A is not a "big" cooler. It's a mid-size cooler measuring 128x112x158mm w/ fan (WxDxH). A big cooler is NH-D15 measurign 150x161x165mm w/ fan (WxDxH). We've seen that guy's work posted here before. Results are all over the place.
Come on Doyll, granted it is a youtube video and the test seem tobe preformed in some guys house and not a lab. I would say it is a fair and balanced test for the normal user to use as a tool.

yes theU12A is a large cooler and the D15 is an extremely large cooler.


This is a normal sized cooler Thermaltake UX100.

Images below for reference,
 

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Fix it till its broke
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Normal sized if you were using a stock cooler.
 

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Currently i'm using the stock wraith cooler, and a Geforce 750ti (i do not need big gpu horsepower for the work i do... maybe in the distant future i will upgrade it but not now).


I've built the computer in my old case, because i ordered the phanteks eclipse p600s closed but it has not arrived yet due to the pandemic. I plan on using the 3 included phanteks fans in the intake and only add one 120mm fan i already have in the back as exhaust. One of the things that made me choose this case is dual operation (able to remove the front if i need more airflow), the included high quality fans and the big clearance for any cooler i might buy.

RAM is what i was able to get in my country: Corsair LPX 3000mhz 8x2 (CMK8GX4M1D3000C16), but the good thing is not tall so any cooler will fit. If i need to upgrade in the future i will always buy ram that is not tall.


Motherboard is an Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus WIFI.
stock fans in the P600s are a bit pish TBH.
 

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If you're sure you'll be going for a 12 or 16 core processor, it probably makes sense to spring for something a little better for cooling. I recently got a Ryzen 7 3700X and came here for help with cooling options and have settled on the Thermalright LGMRT (Le Grand Macho RT, such a long name haha). It's probably a bit more than I need but I wanted such, both for potentially quieter operation and the capability to handle more in case I upgrade to a higher core count Ryzen 4000 series later.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you're sure you'll be going for a 12 or 16 core processor, it probably makes sense to spring for something a little better for cooling. I recently got a Ryzen 7 3700X and came here for help with cooling options and have settled on the Thermalright LGMRT (Le Grand Macho RT, such a long name haha). It's probably a bit more than I need but I wanted such, both for potentially quieter operation and the capability to handle more in case I upgrade to a higher core count Ryzen 4000 series later.

Exactly my point.
How does the base of the LGMRT meet with the cpu? how would you say it compares to the noctua noctua nh-d15? and the gran macho rev C?
 

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Apologies, I can't answer that as I don't yet have it as I'm using the stock cooler myself in the meantime as other priorities arose, but it's what I have decided to get. I was asking the same question as you a few weeks back and it's what seemed to be most recommended.
 

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Overclocker
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There is a selection of large but often expensive coolers, the problem is which of them are good enough for the AMD's chip layout. Otherwise there is not much you can get above the 140mm air coolers that are rated for 250+W, be it large single tower or dual narrow towers with dual fans.

The Thermalright coolers and even pastes are fine, just hard to buy on some markets.

You should look up a cooler review focused on the layout of AMD's Zen CPUs or figure it out yourself which cooler has good heatpipe coverage of the chiplets and which doesn't. It's the same thing with water blocks of which most are rubbish to use with AMD. It gets even worse with Threadripper/Epyc to select a cooler.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
There is a selection of large but often expensive coolers, the problem is which of them are good enough for the AMD's chip layout. Otherwise there is not much you can get above the 140mm air coolers that are rated for 250+W, be it large single tower or dual narrow towers with dual fans.

The Thermalright coolers and even pastes are fine, just hard to buy on some markets.

You should look up a cooler review focused on the layout of AMD's Zen CPUs or figure it out yourself which cooler has good heatpipe coverage of the chiplets and which doesn't. It's the same thing with water blocks of which most are rubbish to use with AMD. It gets even worse with Threadripper/Epyc to select a cooler.

That is exactly why I came to ask here. It always seemed like a forum where there are people who know a lot about air cooling. I've been reading non-stop reviews and articles for months ... and the more I read, the more confused I am.


Adding to my confusion, I recently learned about the problem of convex / concave bases and that some bases do not cover all processor chiplets well, and there is very little info on that in the reviews.
 

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For example: the only cooler i found to say "enlarged cooper base to to ensure 100% contact with ryzen processors" is the Thermalright ARO-14G.
How does it compare to le grand macho on a ryzen processor? It's impossible to find a recent review of the grand macho that uses amd processors.
 

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Currently i'm using the stock wraith cooler, and a Geforce 750ti (i do not need big gpu horsepower for the work i do... maybe in the distant future i will upgrade it but not now).

I've built the computer in my old case, because i ordered the phanteks eclipse p600s closed but it has not arrived yet due to the pandemic. I plan on using the 3 included phanteks fans in the intake and only add one 120mm fan i already have in the back as exhaust. One of the things that made me choose this case is dual operation (able to remove the front if i need more airflow), the included high quality fans and the big clearance for any cooler i might buy.

RAM is what i was able to get in my country: Corsair LPX 3000mhz 8x2 (CMK8GX4M1D3000C16), but the good thing is not tall so any cooler will fit. If i need to upgrade in the future i will always buy ram that is not tall.

Motherboard is an Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus WIFI.
X570 has about 50mm center CPU to near side of RAM and about 84mm center CPU to near side of x16 PCIe.
LPX is only 31mm so only 34mm from surface of motherboar to top of RAM .. or 26mm above top of CPU.

P600S has 190mm CPU clearance so plenty of room for even the tallest coolers.


Come on Doyll, granted it is a youtube video and the test seem tobe preformed in some guys house and not a lab. I would say it is a fair and balanced test for the normal user to use as a tool.

yes theU12A is a large cooler and the D15 is an extremely large cooler.


This is a normal sized cooler Thermaltake UX100.

Images below for reference,
No, that is a normal size of coolers supplied with CPU. What most users consider a normal size cooler is basic 120mm fanned tower about 120x65x165mm big with fan.


Normal sized if you were using a stock cooler.
Indeed!


stock fans in the P600s are a bit pish TBH.
Really? Last time I looked they were the unmarked PH-F140SP motor and housing with PH-F140MP/HP II impeller .. and they are probaby best stock case fans out there.


Exactly my point.
How does the base of the LGMRT meet with the cpu? how would you say it compares to the noctua noctua nh-d15? and the gran macho rev C?
Le Grand Macho RT will fit, and performs same, no actually better than D15 at same fan speed / noise levels.


For example: the only cooler i found to say "enlarged cooper base to to ensure 100% contact with ryzen processors" is the Thermalright ARO-14G.
How does it compare to le grand macho on a ryzen processor? It's impossible to find a recent review of the grand macho that uses amd processors.
The large base is for Threadripper size IHS. Isn't your Ryzen IHS about the same size as Intel and other AMD CPUs?
 

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Shooting down fallacies
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Really? Last time I looked they were the unmarked PH-F140SP motor and housing with PH-F140MP/HP II impeller .. and they are probaby best stock case fans out there.
In Hundred Acre Wood, only Arctic P12/14 (or whatever poah is using at that given moment) are good. You know that.
 

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Overclock the World
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"Normal" sized cooler, is not anything that looks similar to the wraith stealth
Stealthy, small ~ called for a reason :D
Wraith spire might be considered a "normal" cooler, but then it's wide ~ while the NH-U12 is tall instead
Both should could as "normal sized" cooler - neverless of the orientation
A big person doesn't have to be a wide person, nor has to be a tall person :p

About PBO tho, OP
a 3700X usually hits it's advertised boost clock at 4.4Ghz on SSE loads
Unless you peak 85c, then up to bios version and so SMU version - it might throttle voltage and not only frequency
After 50c after all between ryzens you use 50-75Mhz potential maximum boost ~ for every 10c
Throttle = voltage throttle happens at set throttle point of 80-95c (depends on bios and user settings)
And when you voltage throttle, you will hit a point where the boosting table doesn't cover this frequency ~ and so it will never hit nor even peak it

PBO does go around this work, but with some not commonly explained downsides:
- PBO will shift the boosting curve
- Up to agesa, and bug-free'ness , the upper limit will stay at 1.485v~ (usually 1.48)
- Allcore voltage will always shift up (even when it never needs that +50 ~ +80mV more)
- PPT, TDC, EDC limits will stay at a fixed value but this results in worse perf

Let me explain,
In order for peak boost to be hit, it needs to supply itself with very high voltage and optimally fully suspend cores
But, anything over 1.3v~ constant current (sillicon degredation voltage varies between workload so strain) will be bad for the 7nm node
This node tho was to begin with binned for efficient low voltage opperation
Around 1.025v for 4Ghz is common, same as about 1.1-1.2 for 4.1-4.15v ~ here we speak high strain AVX2 loads
This sillicon was never designed to boost beyond 4.2-4.3 without a significant change
That is, borrowing Zen 3 variable boosting algorithm and update algorithm ~ as it was done just in time of Zen 2 release
(AMDs team works on two generations at the same time)

In order for Robert Hallock's PBO video to work (which does work *)
The unit needs to be limited and not have PBO "open"
The unit needs to be able to offload the strain and fully suspend cores - if not even shut down a whole CCX (1usmus powerplan)
I just hope mr hallock never mentioned that as "allcore loads" as it's just an extended boost feature and needs a lot of user work
It doesn't "just work" how he advertised it
* it will need maxed out AutoOC and strongly limited TDC, EDC + low SOC voltage and not much strain on the memory controller (procODT), in order to work

To recap,
- As Precision Boost 2 does shift voltage around about every 8-15ms to combat high voltage
- And PBO does shift the voltage curve
- You will need to limit TDC, EDC to constant 100% on all of the allcore workloads, to keep sillicon fittness up
- You will need to use AutoOC, if you ever want to see any benefit from PBO and limit these Amprese values
- A global negative offset with PBO technically tames the voltage up-shifting, but at the expense for broken boost and higher allcore frequency (bad)

Soo either don't use PBO at all, or do the opposite of what Buildzoid suggested and strongly TDC, EDC voltage limit it for allcore loads
Else what you only cause is higher overall vCore = higher thermals, with a messed up boosting table that causes clock stretching
Virtual Fake Frequency numbers, that might be read out as such but the voltage was never enough to hold them longer than 1-2ms

And if you just want constant frequency for some specific workload which are not games - just per CCX OC with under 1.3v on your unit
That will keep thermals low and average program performance high :)
 
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