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Should Credit Hoarding during BGB be accepted?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • No

    Votes: 17 60.7%
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So with the recent issue that was brought up in the now closed BGB8 thread, I feel that it is necessary to get a full input on this whole issue that I am defining as "Credit Hoarding". You might be wondering what in the world that means. Well, it's a simple thing. You have work units. When they complete, they get sent back to the project server. You get credits almost instantly (depending on project). Credit hoarding is the act of holding onto the completed work units and uploading them when the BOINCers Gone Bonkers event start, thus giving you a boost in the credit race.

While there is no real way of actually policing this action, by having it clearly defined on whether this should be acceptable or not is important for our team in order to not have issues like we have had recently in the future.

[NOTE: Please keep the discussion civil. Failure to do so could lead to problems]
 

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Personally I dont have a problem with it. It is the users time, hardware, and electric to do as they wish with it. And it does add a different aspect to the race, other than just doing high point yield projects and adding more hardware.

But I can see how it can get out of hand, and become a problem very quickly if left unmanaged.

While some may be able to do it without hurting their current daily output. Others may just try to overdo it and either not complete WUs by the deadline, or lose the WUs due to a BSOD or power failure. And in my opinion, it is not an honorable thing to do. But I do agree it is not harmful to the projects if done right.

So, while I dont have a problem with the proposed actions, I think it would be best to "look down" upon it.

EDIT: I dont do "point hoarding" during BGB events, hell I even run low point producing projects. But for FaTs, I do time by -bigadv WUs to drop during the beginning of the event. As they take longer to complete than the event runs. So, if their is some odd project with HUGE WUs, then I think these should be consider allowable.
 

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-If you as in whoever is competing, is not able to meet certain performance marks with his or her hardware; and if you choose to hoard your credits then use those to get ahead in an event where certain marks are better than others. (Like BGB different levels of prizes to be won.) Then yes hoarding is a bad thing and you should be not allowed to win a prize in the event in question.
-If you are in the event just to see how many points you can put up in the said length of time of the event, then it doesnt matter if you hoard or not; you still arent eligible to win a prize.
-if this was a tractor pull type senario, and it is; and the full pull mark was 20,000 points. If you were to pull 20,001 points its a full pull. If you were to pull 2 billion points its a full pull. no matter what you get if you got more than was required to meet the full pull mark; then it is a full pull.
-if someone who hoards drops a bomb on us during an event, then we need to take into account what their normal ppd is avg. if they normally put down 200-400k in a days time; why the hell are we arguing over a 20k point in a 2 day competition??? obviously someone that can get 10-20x that amount in 1 day can surely best that in 2??? And do you know anybody that when they go to compete they leave their good stuff at home?? Picture them looking in their 2 door garage at 2 cars.... on the left is an AMC Gremlin... on the right is Dodge Viper. If they were going to a drag race, what are the chances they drove the Gremlin there? Some people only run their sig rig daily. When it comes to the BGB events they borrow their moms laptop, their work computer, their bosses computer, their kids computer, and so on and so forth and add them to their army of which to decimate all during the BGB event. Normal over-output from most are expected.
** Hoarding for the sake of Hoarding is a no-no, but (and this is a big butt) if the person normally gets more than the amount needed to meet the numbers in the event then leave them alone and if they are not in the event to win something; leave them alone.
 

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Hmm, suppose I decide to run a 4 day long task 3 days before BGB just so it will complete during BGB? Climate prediction for instance? Is that point hording or loading? It has the same effect! It's exactly the the same as doing a smaller task that will complete before BGB ends. It's no different than loading up 6 GPU's with GPUGRID tasks 9 hours before BGB starts. What about loading up 15 CPU tasks that take 1 hour to complete 50 minutes before BGB starts? What is the difference?

Is someone going to suggest I discontinue ALL tasks until BGB starts? That is a real and sure way to loose forever any crunching points!

Contrary to some folks assumptions, the only way to prevent any of the above would be to require eveyone to cancel or abort all tasks before the event and verify it. That again causes folks to loose points permanently. And how would one verify it? Without a hardware verification, there will always be those who cry foul or call folks cheaters. Think I want to play that game?

Any attempt to control people so tightly is counter productive IMHO. This is a low level, low stress fun event isn't it?

I have to ask the more basic question.... What is the underlying purpose of BGB? Is it to promote the OCN BOINC team to enlist more participants or is it a race amongst ourselves? It can't be both because the current rules won't support both!

Acccording to the rules where the qualification for the drawing is simply to reach a certain goal, the only logical reason seems to me to be to promote team participation, to enlist more participants.

As DarkRyder said, a full pull is required to qualify for a full prize. Total points then becomes meaningless because once the "full pull" is done, there is no reason to continue. So, DarkRyder and I could crunch normal, ignore the fact that BGB is actually running and we would both easily qualify for the top prize and I wouldn't have to run PrimeGrid! All I would need to do is sign up then do what I always do. And if someone suggests I let someone take control of my computers to verify empty WU's, forget it! That's so intrusive it's unreal! I didn't sign up for that and never will.

If the purpose of BGB is what I suspect it is, that is to attract new team members and give everyone an equal chance to win a prize, then applying any racing criteria is automatically counter-productive; especially with a low 20k or 50k "full pull" limit. As soon as one starts making hardware the deciding factor, anybody else with laptops or limited ability to run 24/7 is excluded; another counter-productive result.

The way BGB is set up now is fair and guarantee's a very reasonable chance for everybody to win a prize! Isn't that the definition of fairness? Isn't that the best fun?

BGB isn't a race YET and by definition it can't be a race unless the winner is first to hit the upper "fullpull" value because that is the stated and printed goals on the first page! To be a race of any sort, it has to have ONE winner and ONE finish line and rules have to be clearly stated ahead of time and policed! BGB isn't that at all currently... it's something like a "Special Olympics" or something... no disrespect meant.

Be logical here please. It can't be a race by current definitions because it is time based but the goal is less than 1 hr away for me and others. So, it must be a promotional in my mind... The stated goal is FullPull points or one of the tiers below... there is no "finish line" beyond the top prize level minimum points goal. And being first to the goal doesn't improve one's chances to win!

So, I don't think we can truly move forward with this discussion until the boss decides the real purpose of BGB. Is BGB a race which is 100% hardware dependent? If so what's the point of only 50k points? If it's supposed to be a max points race, I won't participate if scvette or someone with superior hardware arrives without a handicapping system.

If BGB is a fun event where everybody has as close to an equal chance to win as possible under these remote internet conditions, then IMHO it's perfect the way it is.

So, I think we need to establish what the purpose of BGB really is to proceed forward because different reasons/goals require different thinking and rules. To mix the two reasons opens a can of worms that quickly becomes uncontrollable.

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Not sure if this merits a full re-discussion, but in the Chimp Challenge controlling when big WU's (70-300K points) drop is referred to as 'priming WU's' and is heavily frowned upon.
 

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I would begin this by saying how can one start a point-race with points made before it began?

every one in some way has said that it is not a good idea or could become an issue? so why should it be allowed?
the term frowned apon has been used more than once and this sort of action is not allowed for other teams for a reason
this may not mater for the people pushing high PPD but it does mater to others and i would like to make it fair for all

i under stand that people must police them selves for the most part but trying to reach the next prize level is suppose to be a challenge with a reward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csm725;14174829
Not sure if this merits a full re-discussion, but in the Chimp Challenge controlling when big WU's (70-300K points) drop is referred to as 'priming WU's' and is heavily frowned upon.
Fine with the chimp challenge thing. But that is a different event with different rules and goals and prizes. Sounds to me like they are having problems too. The only way a true "RACE" can be handled in any event is with strict rules and policing and completely objective control based on prepublished rules. Nothing subjective can be introduced without causing a ton of hate and discontent. No openings for interpretation can be allowed.

Under the best case, I would think one would have a stated project that everybody runs, they must do an update within a few minutes of the actual start, and only one computer per person should be allowed or something along those lines. Anything less will always cause arguments and subjective views that cause conflict and innuendo such as your posted quoted comment...

If folks want to participate in an event where they follow the stated rules but can be stigmatized for running on the edge within the rules, then that is up to them. This "my computer is faster than yours" seems to promote so much ego and stress that I think most would avoid it... but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I have to say, all this crunching "race" talk everywhere is taken far too seriously IMHO. None of these short term events are really professionally run with professional grade rules and policing. There is far to much room for subjective interpretation and ego conflict... far to many ways people can make excuse to "put someone down"... far to much disparity between equipment... but I admit, I haven't the in depth knowledge of all the events everywhere. However, those few I have seen recently are very amature at best with far too little policing and far too large a variation of equipment and far too few enforcable rules. And these amature races leave many large openings for someone to "frown upon" other participants. Without detailed rules and policing, there is always room for interpretation and conflict... way more than I find comfortable. But again I am faced with the question... what is the goal of BGB?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deegon;14175179
I would begin this by saying how can one start a point-race with points made before it began?

every one in some way has said that it is not a good idea or could become an issue? so why should it be allowed?
the term frowned apon has been used more than once and this sort of action is not allowed for other teams for a reason
this may not mater for the people pushing high PPD but it does mater to others and i would like to make it fair for all

i under stand that people must police them selves for the most part but trying to reach the next prize level is suppose to be a challenge with a reward
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What do you suggest? How would you enforce it? Is the only option one deletes all WU's before the start? None of the above is in the current rules. It is foolish to assume someone new would know any (recently referred to) cultural rules that apply.

Now, if someone changes the rules, I will reconsider my participation. But as it is, BGB isn't really a race between team members at all! It's a race to obtain "fullpull" points within 48 hrs. Let's not confuse this point of fact.

Unless and until the rules and goals are changed on page 1, it is what it is and anything else is something else.

PS: I am not avoiding the preloaded or sandbagged or delayed reporting question. But it is not in the rules. There is no mention of any sort of thing in the current rules. There are no guidelines on how to partcipate other than to make so many points within so many hours to qualify for a prize drawing entry. How are we going to start an event when many folks will be at work? There are ways, but to "require it" is just another hardship to some.

Rules generally evolve with participation experience, so unless and until I see something on page 1 of BGB about anything regarding start methods or whatever, it simply does not exist. If folks can't see it, feel it, touch it, it's fantasy. If the boss wants to include some specific guidelines, that's fine, but there are none there now. If the boss wants to know my feelings on the specific subject, I say if it isn't stated I can or can't do some tactic, then it's fine to do! If the rules say I can't add computers for BGB, fine... but they don't. This race thing is so open to "race day" changes, only the most general rules can be used I think. That's fine also... so long as it's stated ahead of time. And anyone suggests someone is cheating by adding 1000 computers at work on BGB day, better show me in the rules where that is excluded! Doesn't bother me a bit if someone does that now!

But all of this is moot because BGB isn't yet a race between participants.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer11200;14172903
As for the fun of BGB. Getting maximum points is the goal of the BOINCers Gone Bonkers event. It is an event to not only spur new interest in the team and the distributed computing application, it has the ultimate goal of improving our team ranking.
This is what I thought BGB was all about. Getting max points is great and currently there isn't even any hint of how this is done in the rules nor does it affect the "full pull" prize qualification objective.

I would say, anyone that used or uses the delayed point method of blasting credit has helped to accomplished the above stated objective, helped the team with points standings, and had fun doing it! I sure did!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer11200;14172950
So with the recent issue that was brought up in the now closed BGB8 thread, I feel that it is necessary to get a full input on this whole issue that I am defining as "Credit Hoarding". You might be wondering what in the world that means. Well, it's a simple thing. You have work units. When they complete, they get sent back to the project server. You get credits almost instantly (depending on project). Credit hoarding is the act of holding onto the completed work units and uploading them when the BOINCers Gone Bonkers event start, thus giving you a boost in the credit race.

While there is no real way of actually policing this action, by having it clearly defined on whether this should be acceptable or not is important for our team in order to not have issues like we have had recently in the future.

[NOTE: Please keep the discussion civil. Failure to do so could lead to problems]
I actually didn't answer your poll, because I'm not sure quite how to answer...I think I agree with Tex, as well as others, on this one, according to the current state/rules of BGB I really have no issue with it at all. As has been stated, we're simply racing against a static number, and once 5k or 20k or 50k has been passed anything above and beyond is just icing on the cake, but it doesn't change anything. I think if we were to make this a race against other members of the team, then point hoarding would need to be eliminated. I do not personally have a good way to do this other than asking everyone to delete all their stuff and start fresh. I know that's not technically "policing" people because we're mainly relying on their word, but as far as I can see from the active participants in this section most seem to genuinely care about the cause and the team. You will always have people looking to get the competitive edge in everything so i'm sure point hoarding will not go away, so as long as we keep this as a race against credits i see no problem with hoarding...

If we were to change to racing against other members of the team, how about this for a suggestion? Could we simply make everyone crunch the same projects for BGB? As in, for this past BGB everyone MUST crunch leiden, seti, and wuprop? or maybe even make everyone crunch one project for those two days, to really make it a race of who can get the most hardware up and contributing for those two days and whose hardware is the best? That way all the WUs are basically the same and the only two external factors would be the amt of computers an individual has crunching and how fast their gear is. That would seem to level the playing field quite a bit, and we would only lose two days of crunching on any projects that we might rather run. Just a thought...
 

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All I suggested before and all I suggest now is that no one willfully builds up points by turning off the network capability of the BOINC client and that no one uses others' computers without the knowledge of those owners.
For me, it's not about winning prizes and never has been. In fact the tiered system for prizes is brand new, so I'm not sure why it's being looked upon as a factor in determining the rules overall.
And it would be nice if included in the updated rules we include something about "the rules laid down here are not the end all, be all. Just because it's not written down doesn't mean you shouldn't do it."
There's nothing in the rules that says I can't do a DDoS attack on all of the participants so I can win - but I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that's a no-no.
 

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OK, so I've given this a lot of thought and I think the best way to express this whole idea is with logical scenarios, each assuming you front load. If I'm missing one, please let me know.

Scenario 1: You don't crunch at all, but the BGB is an excuse for you to fire up your rigs. You take the week before the BGB and load up on all of the PrimeGrid, Milkyway, DNETC that you can and wait for the contest to begin. These drop and you continue to crunch the whole BGB.

Net outcome - no harm done to the team as you weren't crunching anyway and who cares when they drop. Plus, you'll stop again when it's done so it's actually a net gain since you crunched the week prior and during the BGB.

Scenario 2: You have a pet project like Rosetta that you crunch 24/7, but nothing else. BGB is an excuse for you to fire up multiple rigs and get the GPU's burning. You've done the math and you figured out that you can load up on DNETC and PrimeGrid for 2 days before the BGB and that's the limit. However, by doing so you also hit your Rosetta limit somewhere around 1.5 days (purely example.)

Net Outcome - Hurts both the team and the research (a little) in that there is a .5 day lull in Rosetta which would have been crunched otherwise. It doesn't matter that you'll continue to do so throughout the event as you crunch 24/7 on that project and that's simply lost time.

Scenario 3: Same as above but you didn't do the math. In order to get the most points possible you've started 2 weeks out to front load every single GPU project that BOINC offers. Again, somewhere around say day 1.5, though (again example - it could be day 3, 5, whatever) you've finished all of your Rosetta WU's.

Net outcome - REALLY hurts the team and research. In the above example you've let Rosetta sit for almost 2 full weeks without an update and if you kept all of those units they might have expired, losing them as well.

Scenario 4: You crunch 24/7 and don't change any of the things you crunch for the BGB. You do the math and are able to front load the GPU tasks in 2 days.

Net outcome: If you have CPU tasks that are sitting for a period of time it hurts a little like in scenario 2. If you only do the GPU tasks and you timed it properly, then there is no harm done.

Scenario 5: Same as above but you didn't do the math.

Net outcome: Whatever amount of days your computer is sitting idle is harm to the team and research.

So it looks like you get a net gain only if you don't ever crunch. Otherwise at best it's break even for the team, or a net loss of varying severity depending on how careful you are.

Of course, if there's a scenario I missed, please let me know and I'll amend.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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Scenario 1: You don't crunch at all, but the BGB is an excuse for you to fire up your rigs. You take the week before the BGB and load up on all of the PrimeGrid, Milkyway, DNETC that you can and wait for the contest to begin. These drop and you continue to crunch the whole BGB.

Net outcome - no harm done to the team as you weren't crunching anyway and who cares when they drop. Plus, you'll stop again when it's done so it's actually a net gain since you crunched the week prior and during the BGB.

That is why I suggested that the participants had already joined the team and crunched for 32 days before they are allowed to participate. But, that defeats the stated purpose of attracting new members to BOINC crunching. And, there are max WU and time limits in the projects. Time limits are not the biggest problem, lack of WUs is.

So to modify that, how about we say top tier prizes are only available to regular team members?

Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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Scenario 2: Hurts both the team and the research (a little) in that there is a .5 day lull in Rosetta


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Originally Posted by The Llama
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Scenario 3:


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Originally Posted by The Llama
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Scenario 4:


Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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Scenario 5:
Net outcome: Whatever amount of days your computer is sitting idle is harm to the team and research.


Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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So it looks like you get a net gain only if you don't ever crunch. Otherwise at best it's break even for the team, or a net loss of varying severity depending on how careful you are.

Of course, if there's a scenario I missed, please let me know and I'll amend.

IN MY OPINION AND NOT CRITIZING ANYONE IN PARTICULAR OR TO MAKE ANYONE FEEL BAD ESPECIALLY LLAMA FOR HIS FINE WELL THOUGHT OUT POST....

I take exception with the notion that ANYBODY can "HURT" or "HARM" the team. There is no way to "HURT" the team, only help the team. All points generated permanently add to the teams total. Nothing, not even non-participation "HURTS" or "HARMS" anything. But the notion that someone could be accused of "Hurting" the team sets the wrong tone IMHO.

There is no way to "HURT" or "HARM" the team. Points are permanent and to set a tone of "crunch the way we say or else you are hurting us" is not only inflammatory and provocative, it's an open door to "FROWN UPON" someones participation methods. In these quotes are methods to load up on points, but the same thing could happen due to storms or network failures or DSL adaptor failure etc. etc.

I don't even care if a limited redefinition of "hurting the team means you didn't crunch all you could or lost points" is used. Equipment failures do that.

The entire notion that someone can "HURT" the team in any way is ludicrous. The attitude that someone who adds points to the team once per month and shuts down is somehow hurting the team doesn't fly with me at all. Nothng, including everyone leaving would "hurt" or "harm" the team, only slow down the "voluntary" points production. VOLUNTARY is key here...

I have the attitude that any points whatsoever by any means helps this teams total point standings. There is no hurting, no subtracting, only helping the team.

And to try to tell folks how to use their equipment and somehow control them through fear or guilt or any other poor attitude method will put off a lot of participation. Nobody wants to join a team and have someone say they are cheating or doing something wrong or somehow their voluntary contributions are bad or not wanted!!!

Now, these are limitations of global internet interactions. The more one tries to control folks, the stricter the rules, the higher the possibility of others "frowning upon" you, all these things will limit participation and team membership.

I say 100 points a month is as important as 1 million. From a team point of view, I want every point folks are willing or able to give us. And if internet or weather or equipment or personal choice limits the total contribution from an individual member, so what? It's their computer, their life, every point only helps us and we don't have PPD police looking over peoples shoulders!!

So, for all the above, and keeping in mind this threads purpose, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION there is no way to control how points fly in and we shouldn't care!!

However, for that particular situation where someone wants to "drop in" and take a big prize, we can limit the top tier prizes to only team members who have crunched for the last 32 days in a row or more. For me, I say I will never accept any prizes and don't wish to be included in any BGB drawings.

Anything else, any exclusions or poor general attitudes directed at folks could limit new enrollment. IMHO, that is against the stated goals of BGB.

PLEASE EXCUSE ANY TYPOS!

PS: From a team points/attitude point of view, what's better?

Tex1954 just posted a 10mil points jump! Hurray for the team!!! Great Job Tex1954!

Tex1954 just posted a 10mil points jump! Dang cheating Point Horder! He ruins everything! CHEATER!!!!!!

Which of the above is the better attitude for the team to project? Which will encourage FUN and goodwill...????
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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As a team, we all voted on how we wanted the rules to go..

TOTALLY WRONG!! We "ALL" certainly did not vote! That is another HUGE exaggeration!!!

23 votes out of a BOINC Stats reported 159 active members is hardly "ALL" of us!!! It isn't even close to 50%. It isn't even 25%!! It's not even 15%!!!! But you say "ALL" of us? LOLOLOL!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by The Llama
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If being a top producer, or a prize contributor, or anything else of that nature allows one to just do what they want, then that's not a team and it's certainly not a democracy.

TRUE TRUE TRUE! It isn't a democracy, can't be, shouldn't be, hope it never is!!!

But, contrary to what you say, 158 others say WE ARE A TEAM!!!! I am a member of the TEAM too and proud of it, happy to help in any way and not nag folks to death about meaningless little things.

This TEAM is run by the BOSS. What the BOSS says goes. Period. IF the Boss likes to give away prizes, that's fine, but nowhere in the following quote or on Page-1 BGB does it say ANYTHING about hording or whatever. So, what's the beef??? LOL!!!! If you are so disappointed that you don't even participate, then let the rest of us have fun!!!!!!!!

Read this carefully...

Quote:


Fact of the matter is:

What is the monthly "BOINCers Gone Bonkers" event?

Similar to the Foldathons; this is a 48-hour period where everyone fires up every computer they have, and tries to earn as many credits as they possibly can in an effort to boost our team ranking in both overall ranking and per-project rankings.

It's also a great time to take a break from gaming to increase your credits. Plus, it raises awareness for BOINC and distributed computing as a whole. Getting word out is crucial for the long term stability and success of our BOINC team, and we hope to get some new long term BOINCers in the process.

Since you don't participate, no reason you should carry on so anyway... Some of us like to add points any way we can... and WE aren't in it for prizes, so ya got no beef there either!!

If you Llama simply don't want higher point generating folks to sign up for the event if they hord, then say it plainly... and see how 158 others LOL!!!! Those few of us out of the 159 that sign up are helping the TEAM generate a TON of extra points quickly, not sitting on our IDLE HD6990's and complaining!

We just like to "show off and play" against each other for FUN!!! IF we HORD and BLAST out points we are automatically disqualified for prizes anyway according to general opinion... but that doesn't prevent us from...

ready???

Paying attention....???

!!!!____HAVING LOTS OF FUN AND HELPING THE TEAM____!!!!!

!!!!!GO TEAM OVERCLOCK.NET GO!!!!!

 

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So, I was on another message board talking about this debacle and they were mocking me and linked me to this. I was forced to admit that I reached the infinity level.
 

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SOOOO much love. I want me some too.

I have to be the middle man and say this. I personally dont agree with credit hoarding, or point whoring. But it is all up to the owner of the hardware with what they do. And at what time they do what and how they do it. Plus there is not really a way of policing it like Gamer said, and to penalize someone for such an action would just be stupid and create a loss of the "team spirit".

Both of your contributions, to BOINC, are greatly appreciated. But the constant bickering about said subject is a mute point.

But Tex, you complain so much about point whoring then go and credit hoard, sounds kinda hypocritical. It is not about the points
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But Iwill not do anything to fight it or to try and stop it. Because like I said, it is purely up to the owner, to each their own. And different people do different things, for different reasons. Something about being a human.
 

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Hello everyone, I know I'm very new here and literally just heard about this whole boincers gone bonkers event about a month ago. In that time I've spent some time lurking around here making spotty posts and getting a general feel for the team. It was my impression that BGB was like a membership drive more than a points race.

I feel that this entire argument needs to end, I enjoy the competition of it all but when it truly comes down to it the only real comparison one can make here is of a person's total points output, not simply their output over a 2 day period once per month. When you look at these stats you see a true measure of how many points a person puts out for the team and how much they invest overall in the team. That two day period is but a fraction of their overall credit total. If they hoard for the event to add a little excitement and feeling of competition then so be it. I can still see where those points will end up, under the Overclock.net team name on Boincstats, where our only true competition lies, the other teams.

If anything these events are like a quick chance for everyone to inject the team with as many points as they can in a two day period just to see what the heck happens, these "horse race charts" and "point total charts" are just for the hell of it because competition makes everything a bit more fun. I for one know that if it was possible to hoard for a month i'd probably still not catch some of our top performers. And so I just boinc at my normal pace and watch as the teams overall stats rise.

In the end, does any of this even matter? Those who are doing it are most likely bowing out of the prize drawings and any one else that chooses to do it still puts those points under the ocn flag. And isn't that all that really matters?

The fact of the matter is that we jumped our team position one or two positions in a period of two days with a fraction of the number of members of many of our competitors and even put a nice buffer between ourselves and those we passed.

Abbreviated version:
I spent a good hour of my morning reading through this thread because I like what the team does and what the general populous of this forum is all about, hopefully someone spends 15 minutes to read through this post. The membership of this forum is above bickering with one another, friendly competition is healthy and enjoyable, don't get so caught up in it and lose sight of the fact that every point goes towards the team and however we get those points shouldn't really matter. If a few members want to make a friendly race out of it with whatever means necessary let them. If you want a true measure of what a team member has done for the team go look at the boincstats member rankings, that's what matters, not a quick two day friendly competition.
 

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I agree 100%... however, when someone calls me a liar publicy, or says things in this forum that are not true, or tries to pick on the BOSS and run things themselves... then isn't it time to respond?

I'm not saying the BOSS can't defend himself, but some folks never stop complaining or exaggerating or telling lies in this public forum and those same folks often never post anything "positive" at all.

I'm done, I ignore and delete PM's from certain folks without opening them now.

I won't defend others publicly anymore or point out lies and disinformation posts anymore "publicly", simply continue to report them.

One less thing to worry about! LOL!

And as a TEAM member, I support whatever the BOSS says 100%. Very happy and glad the BOSS allows some of us to "have fun" while not in prize competition too! Prize Qualification Charts and friendly finger pokes and wonderful magic chart racing/commentary... I love it all! I don't want to do anything that would prevent those FUN things from being allowed...

biggrin.gif
 

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Point hoarding, first off its none of my business how you run your computers or tally your points. it is not a group decision nor a collective conscious or anyone's business but the member. if you have found a way to cash 4 days worth of points and spring it on us great. all of yesterdays points are now counted today.

NONE OF MY BUSINESS !!!

I didn't know we had a boss around here running things, but there again none of my business !!!! I do know there are a lot of people that spend a lot of time helping, being of service, donating time, hopefully they are creating a great atmosphere without getting caught doing it. Think you will understand this statement.................None of my business

If there is a BOSS i am him, I sit on the top of the boincstats like a BOSS. I am starting to like this a lot.

aka~ 112sparky
 
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