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Discussion Starter #1
Thoughts on whether an EK D5 can handle 5 rads in an Evolv ATX? Only other restrictions will be an EK Supremacy EVO and GPU waterblock.<br><br>
EK CE280<br>
EK SE360<br>
HWL GTR 280<br>
Alphacool 140x30<br>
Alphacool 140x45
 

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<a class="bbcode_url" href="https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/koolance-pmp-450s-d5-strong-pump/" target="_blank">Doesn't look promising........</a>...<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2935212/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="2935212" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2935212/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 728px"></a>
 

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Should be alright. I'm running one D5 in a loop with CPU waterblock, four GPU waterblocks, and four 480 mm radiators, all in series.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25748869" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cmpxchg8b</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25748869"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Should be alright. I'm running one D5 in a loop with CPU waterblock, four GPU waterblocks, and four 480 mm radiators, all in series.</div>
</div>
<br>
Sweet<br><br>
Do you have enough thermal headroom to overclock?
 

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<a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/520199/0451">@0451</a> I get around 15-20 C delta T. This is high but this is compute rig so the typical scenario is 100% load. CPU overclocking (4790K) is thermally limited because it is running intense AVX/FMA code. I don't overclock GPUs because their power delivery is already stressed by this mode, and I want them to last. Those are Titan Blacks and they get harder to replace.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25749528" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cmpxchg8b</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25749528"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/520199/0451">@0451</a> I get around 15-20 C delta T.</div>
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Like I said, you're going to have a Delta T of 20°c plus.
 

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My single D5 pump can handle four 560 rads. However their the lease restriction Radiators made in the 60mm range.<br><br>
I also have MonoBlock & GPU Block.<br><br>
I did add a second D5 recently just to be on the safe side.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So if I add a 2nd pump, can I add the 2nd pump next to it:<br><br>
Pump 1 out -> 1" tube -> pump 2 in<br><br><br>
Or should the pumps be on opposite sides of the loop?
 

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Since the flow rate anywhere in a loop is exactly the same it doesn't matter where you put a second pump.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750388" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>billbartuska</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750388"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Since the flow rate anywhere in a loop is exactly the same it doesn't matter where you put a second pump.</div>
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If you add 2 pumps in series you will (almost) double the pressure in the tube immediately after the 2nd pump. The restrictions will step down this pressure by a fraction of the pressure before the restriction at each step.<br><br>
If you space out the pumps the pressure will have a lower maximum and hence smaller pressure drops through each component so a higher minimum. The minimum pressure will determine the flow rate of the system.<br><br>
Putting the pumps in Parallel will (almost) double the flow rate whilst maintaining the original pressure.<br><br><br>
Normally the pressure drop through a water-cooling loop makes this point moot since it's pretty low, but with an immensely complex loop with very low flow, it could be important.<br><br><br>
One way around the issue is to mount identical components in parallel.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25750443" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wihglah</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25750443"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750388" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>billbartuska</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750388"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Since the flow rate anywhere in a loop is exactly the same it doesn't matter where you put a second pump.</div>
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If you add 2 pumps in series you will (almost) double the pressure in the tube immediately after the 2nd pump. The restrictions will step down this pressure by a fraction of the pressure before the restriction at each step.<br><br>
If you space out the pumps the pressure will have a lower maximum and hence smaller pressure drops through each component so a higher minimum. The minimum pressure will determine the flow rate of the system.<br><br><span style="color:#0000FF;">Uh, no. The <b>total</b> restriction will determine the flow rate. The flow restriction from anywhere in a loop back to that place is a constant. It doesn't matter what the individual restrictions are. The pump(s) only see the total.</span><br><br>
Putting the pumps in Parallel will (almost) double the flow rate whilst maintaining the original pressure.<br><br><br>
Normally the pressure drop through a water-cooling loop makes this point moot since it's pretty low, but with an immensely complex loop with very low flow, it could be important.</div>
</div>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750469" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>billbartuska</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750469"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br></div>
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Not true. in the extreme example the flow rate could reduce to zero. (or below some critical level that *might* be important.)<br><br>
btw I am not talking about any real system - rather a hypothetical one where the pressure drops to zero.
 

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Heres my exprience, if you use 1 rad 360mm vs 10 of 360 mm, the restriction is the same. You'll get equal flow rates in both systems.<br><br>
Also thinn rads 120,360,480,240 have high restriction, needs allot of pump pressure to get the fluid moving in those radators, if you have a thinn rad 25mm thick. then really you need to put two thinn rads in parallel to reduce the resctrion. Thinn rads 12cm have much more resistance than a cpu block. A cpu block virtually has zero resitrion compared to a 12cm radator.<br><br>
If you have a 12cm thick radator 40MM or more, then pretty much it will have near zero resitrion.<br><br>
280MM radators, 14CM radators have low restrion, nearly zero resction inclding thinn 25mm ones.<br><br>
So I recomend that you put all radators in series and take the 360MM out for higher flow rates. Otherwise you can put 360mm in parallel with any other component like a cpu and gpu block to lower the resitrion.<br><br>
EDIT: You guys are saying total restiron determins the flow rate, and the total restrion is equal to the moost resctritive part in the water loop, example if your thinn rad is the most restricive part in the loop then that is what your total resctrion is.<br>
Adding 10 more restricive rads in series will not decreace your flow rate. adding 100more cpu and gpu blocks in series also will not decreace your flow rate.<br><br><br>
When two components are hooked in parallel, the single component sees half the total flow rate, but the total resistance of the components are halfed. Assume compoennt has equal resistance.<br><br>
Waterflow effects the cpu block temperature to water temperature diffrence, also effects the cooling performance you get from your radiators.<br>
If flow rate is higher, then cpu block and water temps are equal, the water temps are also lower due to rads being more efficent from the increased flow rate.<br>
Theres a limit to how far flow rate improves these factors, but generally speaking from my expreince, 500L/H is sufficent for most systems, and going above1000L/H dosen't make any diffrence
 

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Discussion Starter #14
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750511" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Iwamotto Tetsuz</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750511"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Heres my exprience, if you use 1 rad 360mm vs 10 of 360 mm, the restriction is the same. You'll get equal flow rates in both systems.<br><br>
Also thinn rads 120,360,480,240 have high restriction, needs allot of pump pressure to get the fluid moving in those radators, if you have a thinn rad 25mm thick. then really you need to put two thinn rads in parallel to reduce the resctrion. Thinn rads 12cm have much more resistance than a cpu block. A cpu block virtually has zero resitrion compared to a 12cm radator.<br><br>
If you have a 12cm thick radator 40MM or more, then pretty much it will have near zero resitrion.<br><br>
280MM radators, 14CM radators have low restrion, nearly zero resction inclding thinn 25mm ones.<br><br>
So I recomend that you put all radators in series and take the 360MM out for higher flow rates. Otherwise you can put 360mm in parallel with any other component like a cpu and gpu block to lower the resitrion.<br><br>
EDIT: You guys are saying total restiron determins the flow rate, and the total restrion is equal to the moost resctritive part in the water loop, example if your thinn rad is the most restricive part in the loop then that is what your total resctrion is.<br>
Adding 10 more restricive rads in series will not decreace your flow rate. adding 100more cpu and gpu blocks in series also will not decreace your flow rate.<br><br><br>
When two components are hooked in parallel, the single component sees half the total flow rate, but the total resistance of the components are halfed. Assume compoennt has equal resistance.<br><br>
Waterflow effects the cpu block temperature to water temperature diffrence, also effects the cooling performance you get from your radiators.<br>
If flow rate is higher, then cpu block and water temps are equal, the water temps are also lower due to rads being more efficent from the increased flow rate.<br>
Theres a limit to how far flow rate improves these factors, but generally speaking from my expreince, 500L/H is sufficent for most systems, and going above1000L/H dosen't make any diffrence</div>
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Two of my radiators are thin. Sounds like I will need a 2nd pump.<br><br>
140x140x30<br>
140x140x45<br>
280x140x45<br>
280x140x54<br>
360x120x25
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25750511" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Iwamotto Tetsuz</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/0_50#post_25750511"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Heres my exprience, if you use 1 rad 360mm vs 10 of 360 mm, <b>the restriction is the same. You'll get equal flow rates in both systems.<br></b><br>
When two components are hooked in parallel, the single component sees half the total flow rate, but the total resistance of the components are halfed. Assume compoennt has equal resistance.</div>
</div>
WOW!<br><br>
The restriction of any component in a loop depends on the flow rate of the water going through it. So...in order for a component to have zero (added) restriction it would have to have zero flow.<br><br>
As for rads in series vs parallel. yes, parallel rads halve the restriction (theoretically) but they also halve the flow rate through each rad. But the issue isn't so much the flow rate, it's the reduction of turbulence in the radiator's tubes. And since heat transfer occurs at the boundary layer between the tube and the water less turbulence equals more laminar flow which equals worse heat transfer.<br><br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2935818/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="2935818" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2935818/width/350/height/700/flags/LL" style="; width: 350px; height: 197px"></a>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750715" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>0451</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750715"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Two of my radiators are thin. Sounds like I will need a 2nd pump.<br><br>
140x140x30<br>
140x140x45<br>
280x140x45<br>
280x140x54<br>
360x120x25</div>
</div>
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as long as your rads are 140mm 280mm 420mm (14CM) size, even the thinn 25MM will have low or zero water resistance.<br><br>
Your main concern here would be the 360MM putting out allot of water resistance.
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750746" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>billbartuska</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750746"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><br>
The restriction of any component in a loop depends on the flow rate of the water going through it. So...in order for a component to have zero (added) restriction it would have to have zero flow.</div>
</div>
My use of zero restricon here would be, restriction too low to be siginificant, Example Waterflow in a pump res only system have equal flow rates to a big water cooing loop which uses low rads with low resitance and the same pump.
 

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I'd suggest a 2nd pump if ≥20°ΔT is too warm for your loop. It'll work with one pump, but the flowrate will likely be relatively low due to the restriction caused by five radiators in addition to the CPU and GPU blocks. I've had a good experience using two D5 strong pumps in series in my build (2x 420mm radiators, 1x 480mm radiator, 2 GPU blocks, 1 CPU block).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750768" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>superericla</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators#post_25750768"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I'd suggest a 2nd pump if ≥20°ΔT is too warm for your loop. It'll work with one pump, but the flowrate will likely be relatively low due to the restriction caused by five radiators in addition to the CPU and GPU blocks. I've had a good experience using two D5 strong pumps in series in my build (2x 420mm radiators, 1x 480mm radiator, 2 GPU blocks, 1 CPU block).</div>
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I am shooting for a delta T of 5 C. I have the radiator space, but flow rate and airflow are working against me.<br><br>
20 C is way too hot.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750787" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>0451</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750787"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I am shooting for a delta T of 5 C. I have the radiator space, but flow rate and airflow are working against me.<br>
20 C is way too hot.</div>
</div>
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The logic seems backwards here. You have 1 CPU and 1 GPU waterblock, and lots of radiator space. I counted 1200 mm of the combined radiator length. That helps bring delta T down, not hurts it.<br><br>
That being said, having two pumps isn't going to hurt either. Especially since you must have plenty of space in the case.<br><br>
The placement of the 2nd pump does not matter. It could be simpler to use dual-pump top as opposed to spreading the pumps out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750853" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cmpxchg8b</strong> <a href="/t/1619903/d5-5-radiators/10#post_25750853"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
The logic seems backwards here. You have 1 CPU and 1 GPU waterblock, and lots of radiator space. I counted 1200 mm of the combined radiator length. That helps bring delta T down, not hurts it.<br><br>
That being said, having two pumps isn't going to hurt either. Especially since you must have plenty of space in the case.<br><br>
The placement of the 2nd pump does not matter. It could be simpler to use dual-pump top as opposed to spreading the pumps out.</div>
</div>
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I meant to say that I have plenty of radiator surface, but a lot of space for airflow. Lack of airflow will hurt my delta T. This is a mid tower ATX. I will post a mock-up tomorrow when I receive my 5th radiator.
 
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