[acoustic]

Crutchfield is great, never had a bad experience with them. They've been around a long time and I've used them for many different things over the years. As long as the price is right, I prefer to order from them; always get quick deliveries and good support when necessary. I'm in the U.S, but should still apply.

 

[shilka]

Onkyo and Pioneer are also options and they have a number of new 2021 models out here in june and more in august

 

[umeng2002]

If you want to save some money, accessories4less.com has factory refurbished units. They are an authorized dealer of refurbished units that carry a 1-year warranty.

 

[D-EJ915]

Crutchfield is based here in Virginia so I'm not sure how their Canadian service is but for me being in VA it's super fast and they have great phone support.

 

[KCDC]

Crutchfield is great, never had a bad experience with them. They've been around a long time and I've used them for many different things over the years. As long as the price is right, I prefer to order from them; always get quick deliveries and good support when necessary. I'm in the U.S, but should still apply.

Taking me back to my car audio days

 

[trailer park boy]

thanks so much guys,,im still in the thinking mode,,im glad cruthfield is good a dealer,,i have been using a Denon AVR1803 for 15-16 years now,,it works good still,,i use it as a 6.1 setup,,it made a snapping noice a few times now when it changes from stereo to 6.1,,im thinking its close to death,,i have had a early surround pioneer reciever before 5.1,,and had a pioneer reciever 5.1 also,,i was a pioneer nut when i was young,,if any old guys remember these days,, i had GMH 200 running a pair of 12 inch truckriders behind the seats in hatchback of a 79 buick skylark,,my kids loved it
the TRX1000 trucker riders,,those were the days
im pretty impressed with Denon after all those years

 

[sk2play]

Owned Flagship Onkyo over the previous years and they alway blew up pfft type. After that own currently still Denon AVR 3808, AVR4311(flagship models) still working perfectly. Great Company. FYI, due to volume DROPS on the Denon over the decades, I switch to Yamaha. I will never go back to Denon as Yamaha is way superior in Volume Control

 

[trailer park boy]

i have another question has anybody ever had a 9.1 system wired up,,it would be 2 more channels in the ceiling,,thats what im thinking,,but is it worth it

 

[sk2play]

i have another question has anybody ever had a 9.1 system wired up,,it would be 2 more channels in the ceiling,,thats what im thinking,,but is it worth it

No, it is not worth it for most home environments. 7.1 is what I would do from now on out in a regular home. I have 5" Klispch Ref2 around me for movies. Top Fronts (thus 9 set) no effect with a flagship Yamaha powered to all 9 speakers. Best setup I've experience are the Surround Sides which should set 12" above your head as you sit on your chair. 7.1 is King for most living rooms

 

[trailer park boy]

thanks sk2play,,,,,good answer,,just saved me alot of money

 

[EastCoast]

LOL Crutchfield. I haven't heard that name in years. They use to specialize in car audio and accessories. I guess they diverstified. But from what I recall they have pretty good customer service and are pretty accurate on what they have in stock. I recall they had experts ready to take calls on questions you had about an install. I used them before back then. Pretty top notch if you as me. I wonder if they still have that service?

 

[KCDC]

Just as a counter point, I am running 5.1.2 (two atmos heights on the ceiling along with my traditional 5.1, Denon 2600H). I hear the difference but mostly with 4K Blu Ray, not streaming stuff. If you're mostly streaming, then it's not worth it, however if you also want to enjoy height speakers for what they're worth and designed for and have a 4k blu ray collection that utilizes Atmos or DTSX, I can say it's a great experience. Took a lot of re-tuning before I got it right but now its pretty amazing.

I got a comparable Pioneer first as I always stuck by their products but mostly in the DJ/VJ and Car audio world. Obviously I was out of the HT loop and I don't know who owns them now, but man was I disappointed in that AVR.. clipping, shallow sound, not the best tuning experience either (just the binaural mic and AVR software) etc. Replaced it for a comparable Denon and I didn't look back. I know Denon/Marantz isn't exactly top shelf either, but at least I was getting a better experience overall. May go Yamaha next if I move to a place with a larger theater/living area. Yamaha's tuning software is supposedly superior to Audyssey (at least non 32, correct me if I am wrong here), however I do like Audyssry's tuning Android App. Still far from perfect.

 

[JustinThyme]

What counts is power. Problem is they just dont make any good high power AVRs with integrated amps anymore. I have one still left that puts out some nice power, Onkyp TX-SR875. What Im using is a Denon X3700H. They are pretty much all the same up to the X6700H except every step up adds a little more power that isnt worth the price tag attached. Im running all pre amp out-puts to external amps. One 5 channel (Center, left and right height, and surround) a two channel (my surround backs) and two monoblocks for my front two mains. Once you go external amps you will never go back. All speakers except the heights are 4ohm Polk legend series that Im getting 300W per channel. The heights are polk reserve 150W/channel which is more than they need. My best two are my front two mains L800s. They arent cheap but they arent the most expensive by any means. They go for $3K each but Ive seen some upwards of $30K each. I picked them out in a sound studio in a blind test. Just had the guy change channels Playing the same track from one speaker to the next without telling me what he was playing and he wrote down the order number and which they were. I narrowed it down to 3 and had him play those over and chose the legends L800s. The $30K speakers didnt even make the first cut. Power All that though external amps with monoblocks on the front two mains and OMG!!. The clarity and every nuance with perfectr seperation comes out. About $1500 into the AVR and another $3K into the amps. The two L800s are more than all of that but if you are into it worth every penny. Dont have to run subs but I do anyhow and run a pair of SVS SB-3000s sealed. I dont do ported because that just moves air and you lose tonality.

In the end its about what your tastes are and what your ears hear. My wife just as soon listen to a clock radio where I can zone out with my eyes closed and listen to every little hidden nuance I never even knew was there until I went to external amps. You dont have to blow the bank on those either. Just dont fall for the 5000W pyle crap and watch what they say in the fine print. If it says 150W/channel look for what follows.......A lot are 150W with 2 channels driven. Even the Denons. Every single one of them are show the rating with 2 channels driven which means 2 speakers. wut da fut good is 150 watts when you divide it into 9 channels? They all almost always have a higher output when paired with 4 ohm speakers but the 4 ohm speakers are what bites you in the a$$ as none of them are cheap. $1500 each is about as low as its going to go.

 

[KCDC]

If my listening space was larger, I would most likely be draining my account going more custom with my setup, but until then I will do my best to ignore my urges and keep telling myself I am happy with what I have. Because I am... I don't need more sweet gear.. sigh, it's a tough mental battle..

 

[JustinThyme]

If my listening space was larger, I would most likely be draining my account going more custom with my setup, but until then I will do my best to ignore my urges and keep telling myself I am happy with what I have. Because I am... I don't need more sweet gear.. sigh, it's a tough mental battle..

Only thing Im using my Denon to power is my 2 atmos height channels. When you look into the specs for what I have, the X3700H, it says 105 watts/channel. The caveat it thats with 2 channels driven. They leave out that part until you go digging. 105 watts into 9 speakers doesn't do me squat when 4 of them are 4 ohm and the other 5 are 8 ohms. It doesnt spec out the power on 4 ohms where amps generally do and its twice the power of an 8 ohm load. Its great as an AVR feeding HDMI inputs in but I use my TV to switch the HDMI and an 8K HDMI ARC cable to get the dolby atmos from the TV to the AVR. The oppo 4K HDR bluray that also play SACD has two HDMI cables. One to the TV for Video and another thats audio only to the AVR. So that 105 watts goes to my two height channels because they dont use a lot of power and I can add more later if I want. Im using the Polk R900s that bounce off the ceiling even though they make a seperate module that can be installed into the top of the L800s. Problem with those it they aim straight up where the R900s sit on top of the L800s and are angled so you get a better bounce. They both have the same 4" Turbine Cone™ midrange driver and 3/4" Pinnacle ring radiator tweeter and are both rated 30-100 watts. Exact same speakers with the exact same frequency response. I was tempted to go with the L900s just because they install right into the top of the L800 but that angle bouncing straight up wont send the sound where I need it. Thats one thing I learned back in the day when there was no such thing as surround and you had two speakers, done. Ran a pair of Bose 901s thats the only speakers they every made that are worth a crap. They radiate out the front and back at angles and room placement is everything with those. Put them in the right spot to reflect off the walls and they are phenomenal. Put them in the wrong place and they are worse than speakers that don't reflect. When I first bought them I was flipped out by the power rating on the plate in the back under the cover.........UNLIMITED! I pushed 500 wats per channel through a Mcintosh tube amp and they were righteous, for 2 speakers they filled the room from all angles and everywhere was a sweet spot. Then along comes surround sound thats up to 11 channels now. I use 9 with two subs. FWIW the height channels do you nothing except for tracks that support Dolby Atmos. Sure they still play some sound but that separation isnt there. All 4K HDR blurays I have support atmos and the only streaming services Ive seen that support it are some on Netflix and some on Voodoo. You get a scene like say a helicopter flying over and you can hear it go from the front two, to the heights then to the surrounds then to the back surrounds. If you add more height channels it just changes paths working from front to back or the inverse if something starts from behind. As for music, the SACD supports more channels than anything else but they still dont support the height channels other than playing them with the two front L800s which you dont hear them unless you walk up to them and listen directly. If its anything but SACD then I just use the two fronts with the subs that I dont really need with the L800s but it adds more depth and separation with the low end. The Denon works great for HDMI switching and upscaling and the audio decoding is awesome. They just lack in power out but thats the norm anymore. Just cant fit all that into one enclosure so external amps are needed to get decent power. Even the X6700H only gets you 140W/Channel with 2 channels driven. For double the $$ you get another 35 watts and two more channels. The rest of the specs are the same. You can still run 11 channels on the 3700H it just mandates the use of external amps for anything over 7 channels. If you ever go there and use pre outs with decent amps (they dont have to be the $5K+ amps the difference in clarity is unreal and you will never go back.

For the PC I use two Studio monitor speakers and a sub using the Toslink optical out into a DAC then into an amp. Nothing special like my set up downstairs.

 

[JustinThyme]

I’ve gone and dumped some more money. Denon is not being used to power anything. 3 Emotiva amps. My space isn’t that big but even at low volume listening levels the clarity is obvious. So much more detail and every nuance can be heard. The path the sounds have to travel is everything. Start with the sound processor and preamp. If that stinks then crap in will equal crap out. Then the power section it just about every AVR/receiver on the market today is weak and not very well designed so you don’t get a good high current amp in the AVR. So using the preamp outputs will let a decent processor and preamp section work but there are good amps and crappy amps. Yo Can go by a PYLE off of Amazon with 2000 watts for next to nothing. They are more like the old days in cars when people used power boosters. A decent two channel amp with enough to power a decent 4 ohm load is going to run at least $1000 and only go up from there. I went out on a limb and tried a name I’d not heard of before by a recommendation from someone else. Emotiva is that name. They have entry level amps and they have higher level amps but they aren’t stupid expensive like McIntosh tube amp. You get to test drive them for 30 days and can return if you are not satisfied. So I swapped up a bit and I’m running all XPA Gen3 amps. One two channel for my to front mains that can deliver 490W/channel into 4 ohms, it decrease with the standard issue 8 ohm speakers but that’s common with any amp. Then a 3 channel to power my surround left and right towers and center channel. Then a 5 channel that powers my surround back speakers and Atmos height speakers which leave an open channel. They are all built off of the same chassis and auto sensing input power supply. Each channel has a separate amplifier and they are slotted. The amplifiers come in two varieties. High power where it’s one channel per and low power where you can get 2 channels on each slot. They build up to nine channels but the more channels you add the less the power put will be.
Mine are
2 channel gets 490W/channel 2 channels driven.
3 channel doesn’t list 3 channel at 4 ohms but has the same 490 for 2 channels driven and 275W/channel all channels driven into 8 ohms so the 4 ohm will be more
5 channel is same on 2 channels driven and 250W/channel all channels driven in to 8 ohm speakers. 8 ohm are the most common. 4 ohm speakers run up the price tag. All mine have an impedance rating of little less than 4 ohms at 3.6 minimum for the front two and 3.8 on the rest. A common misconception is you can blow your speakers with too much amp. Not the case but you can cook an amp that’s under rated. The speakers will draw their max power. Like having a 1000 gallon water tank, it’s not going to dump the 1000 gallons instantly into a 1/2 inch hose. The hose will take what it can handle. Longer hose means more resistance (8 ohm) and shorter hose means less resistance (4 ohms) so you get more flow. Regardless all of my amps exceed the speakers capability and I’m not fully loading them so less stress on the amp. 300 watts max on the front mains, 200 watts on everything else except the Atmos height channels are 100 watts.

My Emotiva goodness!

 

[JustinThyme]

Also added two SVS SB-4000 subs with 1200 watts rms and 4000 watts peak. Will definitely rattle the neighbors windows but I’m not a thumper. I’m into tonality and went with two for the separation and depth. I can hear every bass note perfectly as well as feel the frequencies below human hearing. They go down to 19Hz and I have the crossover capped at 100Hz and I get a lot of bass out of my two fronts snd surrounds and have the low end on those at 60HZ so there is overlap 60-100 Hz.

 

[JustinThyme]

Denon has moved upstairs and been replaced with a Marantz AV8805A Pre/Pro
Only the XPA5 on the right remains. Replaced with 3X XPR5 amps that put out 600WPC all channels driven. Now I have something thats worth listening to.
9.2.4 system. My latest addition is a pair Ive been looking for forever still in great condition. Polk SDA SRS made in 1986. Tower of power!! 65 inches tall, 15 inch sub, 8x 6.5 inch mids and 4x SL2000 tweeters in each cabinet. They weigh in at 185 lbs each.

 

[mike7877]

I haven't read all the posts in detail in this thread, but as the owner of the 3700x, I have to chime in.

If you've got good to great speakers, it's the best receiver out there. Its DAC is clean and so are its power amps. And powerful - it won't distort unless your room is absolutely massive (like 20x20 feet) and your speakers are stupidly inefficient. Only reason to go for a higher model would be if you want channel upconversion from 5.1 to 5.1.4 or 5.1 to 7.1.2 (using your heights when the signal is not Dolby Atmos). Most other brand receivers don't do either (the 3700x doesn't suck in this regard, it's just not enabled with the feature). Denon's first model that does is the next one up - the Denon 4700. It costs a good $500 more, so you have to ask yourself if it's worth that much to you. It does do a good job.
Having listened to both 5.1 and 5.1.4 content, I'll say my opinion is it's not worth $500.

Oh, also to add. If you have a 7.1 system and you want a slightly improved and maybe louder music listening experience, you can can bi-amp your front speakers with this receiver.