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Gamer
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Hi,
Can't see 2080 rtx performance at 500.us no one would pc game anymore :)
899.99 or 999.99 sound better ?
If you watched the video you can see the latest Xbox beating a 2080 at 4k in Gears 5...Without proper optimization. Once games are using the latest features, such as optimizing for directstorage + closer to metal optimization that consoles are known for, etc...I can expect at least 2080 TI performance. (not in raw power. combined with the latest features that will affect performance quite a bit)

Not to mention ray tracing will be far more optimized on the latest Xbox when compared against a Turing card.


I don't see this console being priced over $500 at launch. The data, market trends and studies Microsoft has shows just this.
 

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mfw
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I for one, am pretty excited that PC/console gaming is really just merging into essentially just one pipeline/architecture.

Sony will continue to try to drag its slow, monolithic carcass in this general direction, too, despite its insistence on exclusive titles and in-house studio. Nintendo has seen the writing on the wall and has really delineated itself as the king of portable gaming, which I think was a brilliant move on their part as their niche/library/stable and player base are really ideal for that role. They will continue to do their own thing for quite some time to come and that's totally fine.

Agnostic gaming would be awesome. I would love to be able to purchase a game and play it on the console or PC of my choosing. I would love to be able to store these massive 50GB downloads on my PC or NAS and stream the files to my console on an as-needed basis.

I'm here for it. I'm here for it all. What a time to be alive. Coronavirus notwithstanding.

Holy crap. Just realized I've been frequenting this site for 15 years! FIFTEEN!
 

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Awww, you're comparing new vs used as if you can't buy a used Xbox, and then you go comparing CPU performance as if it is relevant or even matters at all. It's so cute seeing people try to price match a console. All the silly excuses and justifications they pull out of thin air, how unbalanced they try to make the comparison.

I'd also like to see your RX 580 8GB (what the One X APU is) for <$50 if you do not mind, as well as what refurb PC you think it's going to go into. No cheap business SFF or MFF form factors for you, you need to fit a full size GPU and power it! Don't forget to factor in a KB/M and possibly a wireless controller with your PC purchase, it would be quite embarrassing to get your new PC and realize you can't play from the couch on your TV and you didn't buy a monitor.

I'm seeing 1TB XBox One Xs on ebay for $230 with controller, so please, list your parts. :D
there are more then 3500 used/refurbd computers listed on ebay with Windows 10 loaded and 99% of them have processors faster than the what's found in the Xbox One X. For $167 I can get a iBuyPower BB971 Gaming PC with an Core i5 9400F 8 GB RAM 240GB SSD 1TB HDD GTX 1660 right now that'll beat your Xbox One X hands down practically because of the CPU alone and the GPU is better than what's found in the XBox One X. The shipping is $75 though.
 

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Vermin Supreme 2020
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i'd like to see an rx580 keep up with a gpu with 320b bus. (assuming that wasn't one of the few HBM models?)
 

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The Challenger
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I'm not sure if people have really stood still on the hardware of this thing... Let's do simple math shall we?

RX 5700XT = 40 CU
Xbox series X = 52 CU
That is 30% more CUs.

Then we have;
RX 5700XT game clock = 1755 MHz
Xbox Series X clock = 1825 MHz
That's a 4% clock boost, although, some boost clocks of AIB cards are in the same range as the Xbox Series X, so for ease, let's assume the same clock speed for both.

Then we still have;
5700XT = RDNA1
Xbox Series X = RDNA2
We don't know anything about RDNA2 at this point. So once again, let's assume the worst case scenario, which is that RDNA2 performs exactly the same as RDNA1, which most likely will not be the case.

So at worst, the Xbox Series X GPU is 30% faster than the 5700XT (assuming linear scaling). The RTX 2080 is 15% faster than a 5700XT. Do you know what is closest to 30% faster? A 2080 Ti, which is 34% faster. What happens if you take the clock speed and architectural improvements into account?

In conclusion, assuming that the Xbox Series X GPU is the equivalent of an RTX 2080 as discussed in the DF video is actually conservative. Performance is like that without optimization, so, what would it be with optimization?
It can actually be faster than a 2080Ti, if RDNA2 has significant improvements over RDNA1. The only way this would not be true is if they significantly cut down on ROPs and TMUs, which we currently don't have info about. But it would be really weird to increase CUs and decrease those, so... Yeah. And then there's the console optimization factor over PCs...

This thing is a beast, and at this point, it is a viable option over a gaming PC. With the Xbox Velocity Architecture features in mind, even current PC CPUs are being given a run for their money by the XSX CPU.

And even more impressive is, 8C/16T CPU and 52 CU RDNA2 GPU, on a 360 mm2 package... The implications for the AMD's RDNA2 GPUs here are HUGE. No wonder the rumors are saying that nVidia is worried about Big Navi.
 

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Not a linux lobbyist
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I'm not sure if people have really stood still on the hardware of this thing... Let's do simple math shall we?

RX 5700XT = 40 CU
Xbox series X = 52 CU
That is 30% more CUs.

Then we have;
RX 5700XT game clock = 1755 MHz
Xbox Series X clock = 1825 MHz
That's a 4% clock boost, although, some boost clocks of AIB cards are in the same range as the Xbox Series X, so for ease, let's assume the same clock speed for both.

Then we still have;
5700XT = RDNA1
Xbox Series X = RDNA2
We don't know anything about RDNA2 at this point. So once again, let's assume the worst case scenario, which is that RDNA2 performs exactly the same as RDNA1, which most likely will not be the case.

So at worst, the Xbox Series X GPU is 30% faster than the 5700XT (assuming linear scaling). The RTX 2080 is 15% faster than a 5700XT. Do you know what is closest to 30% faster? A 2080 Ti, which is 34% faster. What happens if you take the clock speed and architectural improvements into account?

In conclusion, assuming that the Xbox Series X GPU is the equivalent of an RTX 2080 as discussed in the DF video is actually conservative. Performance is like that without optimization, so, what would it be with optimization?
It can actually be faster than a 2080Ti, if RDNA2 has significant improvements over RDNA1. The only way this would not be true is if they significantly cut down on ROPs and TMUs, which we currently don't have info about. But it would be really weird to increase CUs and decrease those, so... Yeah. And then there's the console optimization factor over PCs...

This thing is a beast, and at this point, it is a viable option over a gaming PC. With the Xbox Velocity Architecture features in mind, even current PC CPUs are being given a run for their money by the XSX CPU.

And even more impressive is, 8C/16T CPU and 52 CU RDNA2 GPU, on a 360 mm2 package... The implications for the AMD's RDNA2 GPUs here are HUGE. No wonder the rumors are saying that nVidia is worried about Big Navi.
The 2080ti is 34% ahead at 1080p. It grows to over 50% at 4k. That would make the 2080s a better comparison. But this is in a console so hopefully AMD has something bigger on the way as well. The XOX also had the biggest Polaris so no guarantees, but at the least it is on the high end of performance and in a package attractive for lots of reasons. The bypassing cpu use for streaming assets from the ssd will make all pc's look bad if it is used extensively. AMD had a pro card that did that but didn't have the os support to make it happen with games. I didn't think we would see that until optane dimms got mainstream.
 

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The biggest question that has yet to be answered is whether or not AMD can fix their performance scaling at 4K. Once Big Navi ships we'll have a good idea of whether or not Series X is really well suited for 4K gaming or if it's optimal at sub-4K.
 

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Is the GPU and CPU two separate chiplets on one substrate? Or one monolithic die?

I'd like to see how the Xbox Series X is going to keep all this cool. It'll need a much more robust cooling solution to keep all that cool, unless they lower the clock speeds.
 

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Untitled.jpg
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Discussion Starter #50
Is the GPU and CPU two separate chiplets on one substrate? Or one monolithic die?

I'd like to see how the Xbox Series X is going to keep all this cool. It'll need a much more robust cooling solution to keep all that cool, unless they lower the clock speeds.
The first video shows it torn down. It's just a big fat heatsink/vapor chamber as usual and a single fan at the top. Nothing about the actual die layout though. They seem to think they can keep the CPU at 3.6ghz locked when SMT is on, and 3.8 locked with SMT off.
Idk if they've explained clock behavior for the GPU but yeah the number given is 1.8ghz.. I don't think I trust this thing not to overheat.
 

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:)
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The first video shows it torn down. It's just a big fat heatsink/vapor chamber as usual and a single fan at the top. Nothing about the actual die layout though. They seem to think they can keep the CPU at 3.6ghz locked when SMT is on, and 3.8 locked with SMT off.
Idk if they've explained clock behavior for the GPU but yeah the number given is 1.8ghz.. I don't think I trust this thing not to overheat.
It's a confirmed locked 1825mhz for the GPU. No less, no higher.

Pretty exciting times for console owners. Def picking up 1 myself.
 

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Untitled.jpg
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Discussion Starter #52
It's a confirmed locked 1825mhz for the GPU. No less, no higher.

Pretty exciting times for console owners. Def picking up 1 myself.
Higher clocks, more CUs and a bigger memory bus than a 5700XT.. in a consoles thermal and power envelope. I guess that suggests they really are getting a 50% power efficiency increase from RDNA 2 cause that's impressive.
 

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Hey I get one of these!
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there are more then 3500 used/refurbd computers listed on ebay with Windows 10 loaded and 99% of them have processors faster than the what's found in the Xbox One X. For $167 I can get a iBuyPower BB971 Gaming PC with an Core i5 9400F 8 GB RAM 240GB SSD 1TB HDD GTX 1660 right now that'll beat your Xbox One X hands down practically because of the CPU alone and the GPU is better than what's found in the XBox One X. The shipping is $75 though.
So... at $242 not including a KB/M or controller on your list, you can not beat it? Does your PC also come with an HDMI cable for the TV?

You once again keep acting as if the CPU is some kind of limiter to it being able to play games. You should probably drop that mindset since the console can play every game made for it, which is only not a guarantee on PC.

Also your BB971 is a bid with 4 days remaining, not a buy now. Talk about oof, this is exactly what I mean when I say people who try to do comparisons cut corners. Wanna give it another shot? :D

And even more impressive is, 8C/16T CPU and 52 CU RDNA2 GPU, on a 360 mm2 package... The implications for the AMD's RDNA2 GPUs here are HUGE. No wonder the rumors are saying that nVidia is worried about Big Navi.

That is absolutely the part that scares them. With Tensor cores, a 2080ti is 754mm2. Even if they cut that in half going to 7nm, 8 cores of Zen is ~80mm2 based on Ryzen.

240-260mm2 for a 2080ti-level performing chip. With RT. And nVidia needs, if anything, to bump tensor cores higher.

It won't be AMD vs Intel round two, but I'm sure it'll hurt.
 

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So... at $242 not including a KB/M or controller on your list, you can not beat it? Does your PC also come with an HDMI cable for the TV?

You once again keep acting as if the CPU is some kind of limiter to it being able to play games. You should probably drop that mindset since the console can play every game made for it, which is only not a guarantee on PC.

Also your BB971 is a bid with 4 days remaining, not a buy now. Talk about oof, this is exactly what I mean when I say people who try to do comparisons cut corners. Wanna give it another shot? :D

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According to gamersnexus the Xbox One X is abysmal in Assassins Creed Origins at 1080p. A PC with a GTX 1060 @ 1080p ultra beats it. At 1080p medium settings the PC gets 100% more minimum FPS with a GTX 1060.

The potato CPU in the Xbox One X is so lousy it doesn't really matter what kind of GPU it has.

The lowest price I'm seeing for an Xbox One X is $249.

There's an Dell Optiplex 7010 DT Intel Core i5-3470 3.2Ghz 8GB 500GB Win 10 Pro going for $100. I could pick up a GTX 1060 for another $150 and spank your Xbox One X all day long.
 

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Hey I get one of these!
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According to gamersnexus the Xbox One X is abysmal in Assassins Creed Origins at 1080p. A PC with a GTX 1060 @ 1080p ultra beats it. At 1080p medium settings the PC gets 100% more minimum FPS with a GTX 1060.

The potato CPU in the Xbox One X is so lousy it doesn't really matter what kind of GPU it has.

The lowest price I'm seeing for an Xbox One X is $249.

There's an Dell Optiplex 7010 DT Intel Core i5-3470 3.2Ghz 8GB 500GB Win 10 Pro going for $100. I could pick up a GTX 1060 for another $150 and spank your Xbox One X all day long.
Uh huh, cool. Not relevant.

You can't use an Optiplex 7010, it's an SFF formfactor with no PCI-e power on the PSU. Try again. And no the 9020 below your 7010 won't do it either, the PSU still is not good enough for even a 1060. And you still have not included an HDMI cord, a power cord, a KB/M, and a wireless controller.

EDIT: I do not recommend you try to adapter power for the GPU. I have repaired hundreds of 7010 PSUs on the job, they tend to die a lot.

EDIT2: Lol, don't even need Ebay;

Capture.JPG
 

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The biggest question that has yet to be answered is whether or not AMD can fix their performance scaling at 4K. Once Big Navi ships we'll have a good idea of whether or not Series X is really well suited for 4K gaming or if it's optimal at sub-4K.
Yeah so still convinced about those 4K/120fps PS4 games you were claiming on the PS5 for $399? As it stands not even the Series X will be able to do it most of the time so the PS5 might as well not bother.
 

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sudo apt install sl
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[Uh huh, cool. Not relevant.

You can't use an Optiplex 7010, it's an SFF formfactor with no PCI-e power on the PSU. Try again. And no the 9020 below your 7010 won't do it either, the PSU still is not good enough for even a 1060. And you still have not included an HDMI cord, a power cord, a KB/M, and a wireless controller.

View attachment 333614

Two free games!

EDIT: I do not recommend you try to adapter power for the GPU. I have repaired hundreds of 7010 PSUs on the job, they tend to die a lot.
The OptiPlex 7010 came in multiple form factors. Just like most OEM desktops. He specifically stated the full desktop form factor. You'll need a different powersupply though. I still have a few of the OptiPlex 7010s desktops deployed.
 

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Vermin Supreme 2020
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futile debate. console gaming market & PC gaming market more more a ven diagram.
 

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Hey I get one of these!
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The OptiPlex 7010 came in multiple form factors. Just like most OEM desktops. He specifically stated the full desktop form factor. You'll need a different powersupply though. I still have a few of the OptiPlex 7010s desktops deployed.
See, but he's already over budget, still has not bought everything he needs, AND he now needs to swap the PSU. Also no, direct ebay search "Dell Optiplex 7010 DT Intel Core i5-3470 3.2Ghz 8GB 500GB Win 10 Pro". This is his pick;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-7010-DT-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3-2Ghz-8GB-500GB-Win-10-Pro-Computer/293494251780?epid=1122344724&hash=item44559ee104:g:OX4AAOSwO6xeWCkP

Yes, I am quite familiar with 7010s. I just ran a quick report, we have 1052 still in the environment. I'm pretty sure we're approaching 10% PSU failure rate as time goes on, but at least they do not take other components with them. :D

futile debate. console gaming market & PC gaming market more more a ven diagram.
Agreed. Obviously the PC is worth more because it can do more, but I'm not the one who claimed better could be had for less without doing even basic ebay (or Walmart) research.
 

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See, but he's already over budget, still has not bought everything he needs, AND he now needs to swap the PSU. Also no, direct ebay search "Dell Optiplex 7010 DT Intel Core i5-3470 3.2Ghz 8GB 500GB Win 10 Pro". This is his pick;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-7010-DT-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3-2Ghz-8GB-500GB-Win-10-Pro-Computer/293494251780?epid=1122344724&hash=item44559ee104:g:OX4AAOSwO6xeWCkP

Yes, I am quite familiar with 7010s. I just ran a quick report, we have 1052 still in the environment. I'm pretty sure we're approaching 10% PSU failure rate as time goes on, but at least they do not take other components with them. :D

Agreed. Obviously the PC is worth more because it can do more, but I'm not the one who claimed better could be had for less without doing even basic ebay (or Walmart) research.
Why would anyone buy an Xbox One X for gaming? Gamersnexus did a review of the performance of the Xbox One X, the performance was absolutely PITIFUL. I'd pay $50 more to get 100% better performance.
 
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