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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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AMD starting to develop display processors to support ARM architectures is correct in terms of marketability and market potential, but its pace is too slow compared with Nvidia's success with Tegra 2, according to Taiwan-based notebook makers.

Source


I'll have to agree, AMD is moving slowly even though ATi had a branch before that handled small integrated GPU's that did well for the time.

Hopefully they can bring out some SoC solutions to get their foot in the door and stay.
 

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Interesting... I wonder how that will work. Will AMD have to get an ARM license for it? IIRC they sold off their rights along with their Imageon brand. Could AMD add extensions to x86 based off of ARM for power efficiency?

Anyways, would be interesting to see some kind of Radeon with an ARM CPU though. Plus, they are going to need one anyways if they truly want to push into the tablet market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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Originally Posted by Cheetos316
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Interesting... I wonder how that will work. Will AMD have to get an ARM license for it? IIRC they sold off their rights along with their Imageon brand.

Yeah, AMD Imageon & AMD Xilleon were both sold off. Imageon went to Qualcomm and Xilleon went to Broadcom.

Current though; AMD might still have their ARM License as they never sold that off (because you can't) so producing the CPU's is still feasible for them. What they showed off with the new UVD3 architecture for H.264 & VC-1 Decoding also gives them a bright future.

The question no lays with if they sold or traded any patents when they got rid of those two products. That could cause issues for them. We'll see though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by Cheetos316
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Could AMD add extensions to x86 based off of ARM for power efficiency?

In most likely cases; Zacate and derivatives are the best we're going to see from AMD in terms of ARM like power draw on x86 chips. The design between the ARM Architecture and the x86 Architecture is just too different to feasibly get a well performing CPU to run at 1Ghz with a 1w TDP.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by Tator Tot
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Yeah, AMD Imageon & AMD Xilleon were both sold off. Imageon went to Qualcomm and Xilleon went to Broadcom.

Current though; AMD might still have their ARM License as they never sold that off (because you can't) so producing the CPU's is still feasible for them. What they showed off with the new UVD3 architecture for H.264 & VC-1 Decoding also gives them a bright future.

The question no lays with if they sold or traded any patents when they got rid of those two products. That could cause issues for them. We'll see though.

Even if they sold/traded patents, I wonder if they can apply any of the current HD6k architecture for mobile uses. It already has really impressive power numbers, despite the large number of SPs. It just depends on how it scales as the number of SPs decrease.

Quote:


In most likely cases; Zacate and derivatives are the best we're going to see from AMD in terms of ARM like power draw on x86 chips. The design between the ARM Architecture and the x86 Architecture is just too different to feasibly get a well performing CPU to run at 1Ghz with a 1w TDP.

If AMD does have an ARM license, I wonder if they would be willing to consider developing an ARM CPU. If they can leverage the power efficiency of the ARM architecture with their knowledge of multi-core high performance CPUs and chipsets, it would be quite the impressive product. Plus, it would be one method of quickly entering the tablet/smartphone market (as opposed to performing the R&D to get x86 down to acceptable power numbers) and would beat Intel to the punch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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Originally Posted by Cheetos316
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Even if they sold/traded patents, I wonder if they can apply any of the current HD6k architecture for mobile uses. It already has really impressive power numbers, despite the large number of SPs. It just depends on how it scales as the number of SPs decrease.

Well they have already shown they can put an 80 SP's on in an 18w TDP with an x86 CPU.

All things considered, I bet they could do 40 SP's (which would be more than enough for mobile purposes) on a chip and keep it around 1w.

The GPU part wouldn't be hard as AMD kept the employees of those projects; just not the projects themselves.

Quote:


Originally Posted by Cheetos316
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If AMD does have an ARM license, I wonder if they would be willing to consider developing an ARM CPU. If they can leverage the power efficiency of the ARM architecture with their knowledge of multi-core high performance CPUs and chipsets, it would be quite the impressive product. Plus, it would be one method of quickly entering the tablet/smartphone market (as opposed to performing the R&D to get x86 down to acceptable power numbers) and would beat Intel to the punch.

Right now, it's all about money for R&D.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by Cheetos316
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If AMD does have an ARM license, I wonder if they would be willing to consider developing an ARM CPU. If they can leverage the power efficiency of the ARM architecture with their knowledge of multi-core high performance CPUs and chipsets, it would be quite the impressive product. Plus, it would be one method of quickly entering the tablet/smartphone market (as opposed to performing the R&D to get x86 down to acceptable power numbers) and would beat Intel to the punch.

I thought you don't need to develop anything... A licensee could take the reference ARM design and create processors. They can also tweak the design as they see fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Originally Posted by DuckieHo;12004823
I thought you don't need to develop anything... A licensee could take the reference ARM design and create processors. They can also tweak the design as they see fit.
Well you still need to design to a certain aspect; very few guys are running 100% vanilla CPU's.
Though it really depends how deep your development goes.

I am not sure if anyone actually uses just vanilla ARM CPU's right now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot;12007282
Well you still need to design to a certain aspect; very few guys are running 100% vanilla CPU's.
Though it really depends how deep your development goes.

I am not sure if anyone actually uses just vanilla ARM CPU's right now.
Didn't Tegra 1 use a standard Cortex? Companies choose to tweak the cores to meet their needs, possibly get better performance or power, or add-value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;12007347
The article has poor spelling and grammar. Wintel? I thought it was Intel.

Edit - don't say grammar Nazi.
Wintel = Windows + Intel. It is the nickname for Microsoft Windows and Intel CPU dominance over the computing world.

The use of the "Wintel" there is prefectly acceptable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;12007347
The article has poor spelling and grammar. Wintel? I thought it was Intel.

Edit - don't say grammar Nazi.
How long have you been in computing?
Quote:
Wintel is a portmanteau of Windows and Intel. It usually refers to a computer system or the related ecosystem based on an Intel x86 compatible processor and running the Microsoft Windows operating system
Source

Edit: Wow, Duckie is fast!
 

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Awesome, they are progressing, slow, but better than nothing
smile.gif


This is a result of the CEO dilemma.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;12007654
Didn't Tegra 1 use a standard Cortex? Companies choose to tweak the cores to meet their needs, possibly get better performance or power, or add-value.
Tegra 1 used a slightly customized ARM11 MPCore CPU's. They are only single core MPCore CPUs; with a few features cut.
 

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In order to stand apart from the competition (ie Nvidia), they would/should tweak the reference design of the ARM CPUs so that they can fully incorporate their GPU design and add in their multicore know-how.

In terms of the funding for the R&D, maybe they could start off with the reference CPU design and add in their GPU and if the market seems viable, they could allocate more funding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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Originally Posted by Cheetos316;12009408
In order to stand apart from the competition (ie Nvidia), they would/should tweak the reference design of the ARM CPUs so that they can fully incorporate their GPU design and add in their multicore know-how.

In terms of the funding for the R&D, maybe they could start off with the reference CPU design and add in their GPU and if the market seems viable, they could allocate more funding.
There best option is to develop a stop-gap like solution that's like Fuzion or current Intel Atom's.

GPU & CPU on one die; even if the GPU isn't inside the CPU itself.

This will give them something that's different enough from the competition and allow them to offer better prices for a SoC solution.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot;12009506
There best option is to develop a stop-gap like solution that's like Fuzion or current Intel Atom's.

GPU & CPU on one die; even if the GPU isn't inside the CPU itself.

This will give them something that's different enough from the competition and allow them to offer better prices for a SoC solution.
That's what NVIDIA did with Tegra 1. Use the base CPU and add-value in the GPU and decoders. Then work on improving the CPU later with Tegra 3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;12009544
That's what NVIDIA did with Tegra 1. Use the base CPU and add-value in the GPU and decoders. Then work on improving the CPU later with Tegra 3.
And even though they got a lot of doubt (because they weren't a CPU producer before) actually did fairly well. Even though Tegra 1 didn't have a lot of device saturation.

Zune HD was a big enough contract to really help them demonstrate the abilities of Tegra.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;12007654
Wintel = Windows + Intel. It is the nickname for Microsoft Windows and Intel CPU dominance over the computing world.

The use of the "Wintel" there is prefectly acceptable.
Oh. Thanks.
 
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