[Wolftame]

Hi!

Having huge problems with a unstable system now with 2 EK PWM DDC pumps. It seems they fail to spin up which of course quickly overhead my system and renders it unbootable. I've switched from one of the pumps to the other and it worked for a while, but now that one is doing the same. Dismantling the loop and pump to check if it spins (advice from customer support when I first reported it) and it won't spin unless I manually spin it a bit first (doing this very briefly in order not to burn them out).
Stupid thing is I did submitt a RMA for one of the pump, but after following the advice of support and testing it dry and it did spin up back then I decided to just replace the non spinning pump with the previously RMAd one I had (that one had a dead PWM board and would only run at 100%).
Anyone know what is going on with these pumps? Have they lived out their life and need to be replaces now? Wonder if there's a point of getting another DDC or if I should replace it with a D5 instead? (Not that I can afford it right now, I guess I will just have to keep the computer on and never allow the pump to spin down).

Thoughts? Advice? cause of action?

 

[The EX1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolftame

Hi!

Having huge problems with a unstable system now with 2 EK PWM DDC pumps. It seems they fail to spin up which of course quickly overhead my system and renders it unbootable. I've switched from one of the pumps to the other and it worked for a while, but now that one is doing the same. Dismantling the loop and pump to check if it spins (advice from customer support when I first reported it) and it won't spin unless I manually spin it a bit first (doing this very briefly in order not to burn them out).
Stupid thing is I did submitt a RMA for one of the pump, but after following the advice of support and testing it dry and it did spin up back then I decided to just replace the non spinning pump with the previously RMAd one I had (that one had a dead PWM board and would only run at 100%).
Anyone know what is going on with these pumps? Have they lived out their life and need to be replaces now? Wonder if there's a point of getting another DDC or if I should replace it with a D5 instead? (Not that I can afford it right now, I guess I will just have to keep the computer on and never allow the pump to spin down).

Thoughts? Advice? cause of action?

The number one killer of DDC pumps and there boards is heat. Those pumps are actually air cooled, weird I know, and require decent air flow. This is the reason why a lot of DDC users install the heat sink kits for them. D5s are the opposite and are cooled by the water/coolant that pumps through them. I find D5s a lot more reliable, but they are a lot bigger than DDC style pumps. I have been on the same D5 for over 4 years now.

Are your DDCs cooled? Here is the link to the EK kit.

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-ddc-heatsink-cover-black

 

[emsj86]

Read what the op said man. It's not over heating because of lack of air flow. It works but he must spin it first. This usually is a result of in correct power draw (try direct power no pwm signal), the propeller rubbing causing it to not be able to turn over, or an air pocket. Now I'm not saying it's 100 percent what you have going on. But make sure you try with out the Pwm wire just the sata or molex. And make sure it's mounted in there right. Hopefully this helps

 

[The EX1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emsj86

Read what the op said man. It's not over heating because of lack of air flow. It works but he must spin it first. This usually is a result of in correct power draw (try direct power no pwm signal), the propeller rubbing causing it to not be able to turn over, or an air pocket. Now I'm not saying it's 100 percent what you have going on. But make sure you try with out the Pwm wire just the sata or molex. And make sure it's mounted in there right. Hopefully this helps

I fail to see where the OP eliminated the possibility of heat issues with the pumps. Have you seen his case and pump cooling setup? I doubt it as it wasn't posted.

Overheating boards in the DDCs pumps can cause exactly what the OP is experiencing. Erratic behavior like hard impeller starts from heat degradation of the caps and also dead PWM functionality.

 

[Wolftame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The EX1

The number one killer of DDC pumps and there boards is heat. Those pumps are actually air cooled, weird I know, and require decent air flow. This is the reason why a lot of DDC users install the heat sink kits for them. D5s are the opposite and are cooled by the water/coolant that pumps through them. I find D5s a lot more reliable, but they are a lot bigger than DDC style pumps. I have been on the same D5 for over 4 years now.

Are your DDCs cooled? Here is the link to the EK kit.

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-ddc-heatsink-cover-black

Heat sink IS installed on the pump and it's located directly above a dedicated fan blowing air into the bottom of the heat sink with another fan on the side blowing fresh air over it from the side. A heat sensor has been attached to the side of the pump (out of the air flow) to measure potential heat problems.

 

[Wolftame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emsj86

Read what the op said man. It's not over heating because of lack of air flow. It works but he must spin it first. This usually is a result of in correct power draw (try direct power no pwm signal), the propeller rubbing causing it to not be able to turn over, or an air pocket. Now I'm not saying it's 100 percent what you have going on. But make sure you try with out the Pwm wire just the sata or molex. And make sure it's mounted in there right. Hopefully this helps

I have 2 DDC pumps, one has a dead PWM circuit so always runs at 100% regardless. Both pumps are now exhibiting the same issue regardless if they are run with PWM cable attached or not (they have separate power regardless). They have been working fine previously (with the exception of the PWM issue on one of course). The issue first occurred after roughly 7-9 months of use of the pump and I switched over to the PWM less one as a patch solution, that one has also been running exactly the same amount of time now (7-9 months) before it also suddenly choked and start showing the same problem.

Thank you both for thoughts and suggestions, unfortunately no solution so far. I'm not sure I'm still under warranty on this since the pump has already been RMAd once (why I had the sapre no PWM one). but after these issues I'm not sure I want/dare throw another DDC in there.

 

[The EX1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolftame

Heat sink IS installed on the pump and it's located directly above a dedicated fan blowing air into the bottom of the heat sink with another fan on the side blowing fresh air over it from the side. A heat sensor has been attached to the side of the pump (out of the air flow) to measure potential heat problems.

I had to eliminate the possibility of heat. Since you have a heatsink, I know you are aware of what those pumps do without them

I know others will swear by their DDC pumps, but I have had nothing but problems with mine and didn't feel like continuing to have my rig down waiting for RMAs. I bought a D5 and a new pump top and haven't had an issue since.

 

[Wolftame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The EX1

I had to eliminate the possibility of heat. Since you have a heatsink, I know you are aware of what those pumps do without them

I know others will swear by their DDC pumps, but I have had nothing but problems with mine and didn't feel like continuing to have my rig down waiting for RMAs. I bought a D5 and a new pump top and haven't had an issue since.

Yeah, I read up a bit before deciding on the DDC, I was aware of the heat issue but thought I could build around it. Now I'm not so sure I made the right choice. I'm currently considering grabbing a D5 as well and it should be quick and easy to drop in to my existing loop (separate pump and res).


My pump setup with air from below and from the front.


I'm not sure what to look for as for damage (I was asked by support to take a picture of the PCB)

 

[shredded]

Ive nothing but issues with the ddc pump.

Mine was a 140 xres.

Similar issue, worked perfectly until one day would not start up. I could tap it to get it going sometimes and it would be all good again until the next morning when id start up.

After a week or so of putting up with itself it fixed itself for two weeks and stsrted playing up again.

After waiting about a month to RMA it through the store i bought it from, it was replaced with a new one.
They didnt give any info on how it failed.

Fast foreward a few months and thet pump failed again. This time i RMAd the pump after a week, only for it to begin working again during testing. The store contacted EK and ive been given a refund for the cost of the pump, but not the bracket to mount it, nor the shipping to return two pumps or the shipping to buy another. I get these are not costs they should reimburse, but these are additional costs i had to fork out of my wallet because of EK's c****y pump.

After googling around theres several other people ive found whove had similar issues with their ddc pump from EK.

Definitely not lack of air or overheating. Case temps low, pump wad mounted directly over a 140mm fan, and infront of a wall of 140mm fans at the front of the case.
Although no coolant temp sensors, the temps would definitely be low (420mm rad and 140 rad in push/pull for a cpu). If a pump is having issues in thwse conditions its simply unacceptable.

Out of curiosity, what coolant do you use?

Edit: also ignore the spelling and grammar mistakes, i hate typing heaps with a phone keyboard.

 

[skline00]

Go with a solid D5 pump and relax.

 

[JackCY]

I would say do not buy these cheap consumer plastic pumps, it's the typical "works as long as warranty lasts" at best. Get some more proper industrial grade stuff. Most of these water cooling components are so cheaped out to cut costs it's no wonder many have issues with pumps, even leaks, alu. radiators etc. you name it, they are doing it. These parts are meant to be replaced not to last :/

 

[Wolftame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shredded

Ive nothing but issues with the ddc pump.

Mine was a 140 xres.

Similar issue, worked perfectly until one day would not start up. I could tap it to get it going sometimes and it would be all good again until the next morning when id start up.

After a week or so of putting up with itself it fixed itself for two weeks and stsrted playing up again.

After waiting about a month to RMA it through the store i bought it from, it was replaced with a new one.
They didnt give any info on how it failed.

Fast foreward a few months and thet pump failed again. This time i RMAd the pump after a week, only for it to begin working again during testing. The store contacted EK and ive been given a refund for the cost of the pump, but not the bracket to mount it, nor the shipping to return two pumps or the shipping to buy another. I get these are not costs they should reimburse, but these are additional costs i had to fork out of my wallet because of EK's c****y pump.

After googling around theres several other people ive found whove had similar issues with their ddc pump from EK.

Definitely not lack of air or overheating. Case temps low, pump wad mounted directly over a 140mm fan, and infront of a wall of 140mm fans at the front of the case.
Although no coolant temp sensors, the temps would definitely be low (420mm rad and 140 rad in push/pull for a cpu). If a pump is having issues in thwse conditions its simply unacceptable.

Out of curiosity, what coolant do you use?

Edit: also ignore the spelling and grammar mistakes, i hate typing heaps with a phone keyboard.

Sounds about the same story as mine except support has been very good to me and I haven't had to ship anything back and I'm now waiting for a refund (so I can buy a D5).
My first DDC that arrived had a DoA PWM circuit, it would only run at 100% no matter what and I had serious noise/vibration issues. I was sent a RMA pump that was fully working and I ran with that. Late last year it had the no spin up issue. While working on that I installed the no pwm pump again and after sorting the vibration issues ran with it for a few month until that also refused to spin up. That is 1 damaged on shipping and 2 pumps developing serious issues within 6-7 months of use.
While I've been unlucky with these pumps I must say that EK support has always been top notch, no issues or delays, always sorting problems as they occurred to my satisfaction.

They might want to look into better quality control though, the first pump I got with the dead PWM, this is what I found when dismantling it. One wire almost completely cut by the packaging, residue (electrically conductive) all over the PCB, VERY sloppy soldering etc, a real hack job, no wonder it never worked properly. (this pump was immediately RMAd no questions asked though, didn't even have to send it back).


The last pump is currently running in my system again (managed to get it spinning again, but it's making ticking sounds and I now don't dare turn off the computer, it's running 24/7 in case it won't spin up again).

 

[shredded]

Yeah, usually in my country you return items to where you bought them and they deal with the manufacturer.
Ive bought a d5 pump but it wont look as good, or fit as well and neatly in my case as the xres 140 ddc. It also has a smaller res which sucks.

I was using ek blood red coolant, i saw someone else with the same issue using the same coolant. Not sure if that plays a role.

 

[Wolftame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shredded

Yeah, usually in my country you return items to where you bought them and they deal with the manufacturer.
Ive bought a d5 pump but it wont look as good, or fit as well and neatly in my case as the xres 140 ddc. It also has a smaller res which sucks.

I bought directly from EK which I guess helps speed things along. I decided on the DDC for the same reason as you, compact and easy to ingrate in a nice way into the build (EK have done some nice work on D5 heads now though).
Quote:

Originally Posted by shredded

I was using ek blood red coolant, i saw someone else with the same issue using the same coolant. Not sure if that plays a role.

Never heard or thought about that, but I run their old blood red coolants as well (updating to their new formula with the new pump as I've been running this coolant for close to 2 years now). All I know it looks like a slaughter house when you've been draining the loop and dismantling it as it stains red all over