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@CrucialNUG are you still on here? We were in a steam group dedicated to this problem about 2 years ago. I kinda stopped gaming but never halted my search on a fix to this crap, I'd like to share my insight with you on discord/steam, can you PM me? I'm getting an anti-spam popup when I try to PM you.
 

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@CrucialNUG are you still on here? We were in a stream group dedicated to this problem about 2 years ago. I kinda stopped gaming but never halted my search on a fix to this crap, I'd like to share my insight with you on discord/steam, can you PM me? I'm getting an anti-spam popup when I try to PM you.
Sorry for the double post, I just realised there's an edit button. If anyone else wants to contact me you can add me on steam @ Steam Community :: 55555 or Discord NJ#5255

Only reason I'm not making a long post YET is because I want to corroborate some stuff.
 

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Sorry for the double post, I just realised there's an edit button. If anyone else wants to contact me you can add me on steam @ Steam Community :: 55555 or Discord NJ#5255

Only reason I'm not making a long post YET is because I want to corroborate some stuff.
I sent you request, feel free to say what you know
 

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Felt better to slap that wall of text somewhere else than here. You can use it as a future template in other sites as well.
Yes, a long and true story. so we are on the right track. the question now is how to gain statistics on the people who had issues, because they already replaces their hardware like 3 times. and we barely can get people to test anything because some of them just joke on us.

If we take the tries and trying that we do, some people just don't have the technical knowledge or the patience to do what we did. It's good that we had people like TimeCard and Crusial that helped us to be on the right track.

The TV/Monitor Cable affects a lot if you move it correctly to a place with low emi

Like you said about the RAM you had, I think the memory has a big rule in the Latency as it affects the whole computer. ProcODT I suggest you try from 43.3 all the way to 60 one by one and see which gives you the best accuracy. I tried all of them and only 60 was the perfect one. I even tried 68 and it somehow added latency. It takes only 2 min to test each one, so it's a test everyone can do.
 

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Do you have windows 10 Game Mode On or Off? do you notice differences in mouse movement? it's like with the Windows Search that I showed it has input lag when it's enabled, it shows straight out the mouse moves slower.

Can you check if Windows 10 Game Mode changes anything after you Enable restart, and when to disable again restart? I noticed it's bloody more accurate when it's enabled like some services are disabled.

Also, a weird thing happened. I uninstalled the drivers 21.9.1 which caused issues with HDR all the time and somehow 2 System devices that always disappeared. PCI BUS, I had 1 of them once, and somehow something changed and I had 2, but now after I replaced the driver or maybe something else, they disappeared. at the same time, the mouse movement changed, so I tried many things, nothing really helped, so I switch from the back USB to the front and the mouse instantly changed for the better, I also did it for my laptop and exactly the same. some weird things windows is doing that even outside compare fixes won't fix until we do it on the specific computer.
 

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I've encountered weird things in the last couple of days. I'm not sure what happened, but all I did was uninstall the AMD driver and install another one.

From what I tested and see strange things on both my laptop and desktop, usually, it happens at the same time or it is fixed at the same time with the same actions.
Any of the tests can see results after 2-3 days after you made them! I don't know which ones but it could be 2 mainly.

* HOW TO TEST EMI *

* IMPORTANT: If you encounter any EMI issue even after it worked fine for 1- 5min then DO ALL FIXES AND TURN OFF COMPUTER + MONITOR/TV and then test again and see if the mouse do the same issue again over 1-5min. I noticed that turning off Computer + Monitor/TV instantly fix the issue even when no changes have been made. and you can continue testing if changes that made, made any difference.


1. Is the mouse feels heavy or slow or has some delay and doesn't have any accuracy (doesn't slow down or being too fast)- First Try to turn off the computer wait 2 min and turn it back on > is it better for few seconds and then worse > First unplug the Mouse USB Cable and plug it back in, is it the same? change Mouse slot USB one by one and test each if it's any different > Fixed? > Try to plug the mouse to the front of the case > Fixed?
2. If possible try to move HDMI Cable or Power Cables in a way they are not close to each other or align which causes the signal to empower more.
3. Do you have another computer? Does it have the same issue exactly with the same mouse? > Try to turn the computer off and change Mouse USB Slot > Fixed?
4. Check Memory Voltage if possible try to lower it else try also ProcODT between any range 48.8 - 53.3 - 60 and see if it changes anything
5. Windows 10 settings USB IOC on all TDs, USB Selective Suspended, USB 3 Link Power Management.
6. Check motherboard Spread Spectrum options > PCI-E Spread Spectrum

** OPTIONAL **
1. Do you have AMD GPU? try to disable HDCP from the control menu - Might reduce Input lag a lot or small > Netflix/Amazon programs won't work anymore


I am trying to make us a paper so we can follow the steps instead of going home electrical issue straight away. Some steps should help us investigate and see one by one which fixes the issue or changes the issue while we gain statistics over the course of tests.



Some tests just to see if there are differences before and after.

What I think that happens is the EMI parasitising the USB controller because it's not only affecting the mouse, but also other devices. and when turning the device off and changing USB slot makes it new again without interruption. the question is why does it coming back? now it could be the cables that act as antennas and it goes straight to whatever is more prone to that. Also because some USB ports still have power even when you turn off the computer, so you never actually power down or stop the EMI interference. The cable around us can keep EMI parasitising the devices so that's why the issue keeps coming back until you organize everything in some way. Also when the issue somehow came back my harddisk keep turning itself on when I tried to open Computer icon, it only happened when I had this mouse issue, when I didn't have it, I would never hear it and actually see it takes like 3 sec to open while hearing it turning on.


Example to PCI-E spread spectrum with low voltage

there u go tested with 400 dpi sens 15 in OW

low voltage low freq spread off + spread on





The long guidelines

Timecard, answer at the buttom

The Big Culripts are from Top to Lower:
Power Cable, HDMI Cable, Mouse Cable, COAXIAL if exist

If you order them correctly, which I don't have the right answer for correctly, then wait at least 1-3 days, you will see improvement. After you made any changes you need to wait 1-3 Days!!! (Mouse cable is different and instant)
If you don't change anything the problem will never go away!!


TIPS
POWER CABLE
I've found to fix weird/unexplained tearing/sync/stuttering issues even with VSYNC ON and many other DISPLAY issues that are visible is by moving the power cable for the DISPLAY/SCREEN/TV away from the computer at least 1-2 meters. By that, I mean where it's going to be plugged, the END of the cable. I have UPS so I can split the power stripper away from each other. you will need another power socket to have the distance.


MOUSE
I've found squeezing the cable close to the start of the mouse just like tightening a small part making the mouse a lot more accurate and less floaty. this though happens almost instantly. This could explain the random problem coming back because it's something that moves. I remember many times messing with the mouse cable gave instant results.


HDMI CABLE
I still investigating how the HDMI cable affecting the input changing. for now, it can be somehow loose behind the computer. try to give it a circle or two or do the same as the mouse cable.



Well, I searched like 30 min where I saw, I can't say I trust them or their devices, but if they actually say it from what I experienced then I don't care what other will say or didn't say. because not many sites even know that, they are more technical on the numbers and the checking but doesn't say in terms of how long you should see any difference if it's not instant, because they don't say it's instant also, like I said, they don't have any terms on time.

If our body works the same, then it's gonna take some time of "Healing" "Retune" as they say. and that's why it comes after some time and not instant, so you can't actually know what you fixed or when you fixed, and that's where we go into a loop. so at least we have the answers now. now what will fix it could be easier if we find just the right filter or device for the HDMI. because everyone has HDMI and not COAXIAL, so our focus is on the HDMI.

Now you want me to sound even weirder? It's not actually the settings we change in windows, it's how the computer uses the energy, the less energy you use the less EMI/EMF, so that's why some settings will actually change how the mouse moves. Nothing here is real voodoo, it just seems for us like voodoo because the truth is how we will understand and how we will use this knowledge to get the right fix. I think I made real progress, something many others haven't. I hope this will clear and might fix people the issue. we just need to find something that will isolate the HDMI 100%.

Also, the biggest thing I've noticed is I have the same mouse on my laptop with the same dpi, and when I have the issue on my desktop I have the same on the laptop, so whichever it is, it radiates everywhere.

That explains why changing fan speed changes the electricity and causing less or more EMI/EMF radiation.

On the site, before I sent you, they say EMI/EMF cause so many issues including DATA LOSS. so if we take this seriously for gaming, it is exactly the same. you wouldn't want your hardware destroyed or your data. if we know EMI/EMF has specific Hz radiating and affecting devices, the more radiation you have the more issues you'll have, but let's not forget how long does it stay after you fixed it. we need to understand why EMI/EMF doesn't dissipate like we think it does.


Another thing I wanted to write and got deleted because I posted another post and it discarded the old one.
I wanted to say when the issue starts and you actually sit on the computer and it happened the same every time. You can game for a couple of hours and then the mouse and keyboard would freeze, the image would freeze but the sound continues for 3 seconds. after that happens the mouse would start feeling floaty, now there could be other things happening like weird errors or some other things freeze. I had a weird small window saying Radeon Settings... on the middle of the screen that didn't disappear alone for like 10 min. Now I can't explain it, but I know for sure I moved the HDMI cable a bit just a couple of days before and the COAXIAL cable, that's all. After I moved the COAXIAL again it didn't change anything for a couple of days, so I moved the HDMI and it was working fine after 2-3 days. So I've done repeating tests and every time it is fixed it.


There are many issues that we can't foresee. but the ones I checked I'm very sure of them. I can name you two. The one is when the TV shows Tearing and stuttering no matter what you do like it's pulsing electricity every second. that happens when you have the power cable too close to another source like a Computer or another device which connected to the same power.
Second is the HDMI which is the same as the TV, but instead of giving you Tearing and Stuttering, it gives you some input lag or floaty feeling on everything.

So you see my point here? everything is related to the screen you are seeing. So fixing the issue means both, not just one.
Even if you replace the monitor 100 times, it won't matter. that's why people replaced their computer and monitor and somehow it came back after hours or days.

We somehow went too far with the test we did and what can fix it, but we didn't even try the other way even though we already know it doesn't fix the issue for 90% of the people, so why not find another way? They already did the work for us, why test again failing tests? That's why I took my own route. Some people laughed at me, but I didn't care, I found the cause and understood it. Now I need the "Real" fix that we can actually use on, should it be a filter or some EMI/EMF reduction. I think we also are best with EMI/EMF Shielded SATA cables. that's the worst-case scenario.


Some interesting reading

11 Myths About EMI/EMC

10. Adding a ferrite core or balun on a cable will always reduce radiated emissions.


Aulterra.com USB EMF Device

View attachment 2521814





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I've encountered weird things in the last couple of days. I'm not sure what happened, but all I did was uninstall the AMD driver and install another one.

From what I tested and see strange things on both my laptop and desktop, usually, it happens at the same time or it is fixed at the same time with the same actions.
Any of the tests can see results after 2-3 days after you made them! I don't know which ones but it could be 2 mainly.

* HOW TO TEST EMI *

1. Is the mouse feels heavy or slow or has some delay and doesn't have any accuracy (doesn't slow down or being too fast)- First Try to turn off the computer wait 2 min and turn it back on > is it better for few seconds and then worse > First unplug the Mouse USB Cable and plug it back in, is it the same? change Mouse slot USB one by one and test each if it's any different > Fixed? > Try to plug the mouse to the front of the case > Fixed?
2. If possible try to move HDMI Cable or Power Cables in a way they are not close to each other or align which causes the signal to empower more.
3. Do you have another computer? Does it have the same issue exactly with the same mouse? > Try to turn the computer off and change Mouse USB Slot > Fixed?
4. Check Memory Voltage if possible try to lower it else try also ProcODT between any range 48.8 - 53.3 - 60 and see if it changes anything
5. Windows 10 settings USB IOC on all TDs, USB Selective Suspended, USB 3 Link Power Management.
6. Check motherboard Spread Spectrum options > PCI-E Spread Spectrum

** OPTIONAL **
1. Do you have AMD GPU? try to disable HDCP from the control menu - Might reduce Input lag a lot or small > Netflix/Amazon programs won't work anymore


I am trying to make us a paper so we can follow the steps instead of going home electrical issue straight away. Some steps should help us investigate and see one by one which fixes the issue or changes the issue while we gain statistics over the course of tests.



Some tests just to see if there are differences before and after.

What I think that happens is the EMI parasitising the USB controller because it's not only affecting the mouse, but also other devices. and when turning the device off and changing USB slot makes it new again without interruption. the question is why does it coming back? now it could be the cables that act as antennas and it goes straight to whatever is more prone to that. Also because some USB ports still have power even when you turn off the computer, so you never actually power down or stop the EMI interference. The cable around us can keep EMI parasitising the devices so that's why the issue keeps coming back until you organize everything in some way. Also when the issue somehow came back my harddisk keep turning itself on when I tried to open Computer icon, it only happened when I had this mouse issue, when I didn't have it, I would never hear it and actually see it takes like 3 sec to open while hearing it turning on.


Example to PCI-E spread spectrum with low voltage







The long guidelines








tags

U ARE LEGEND i have logitech g pro wireless superlight i use the cable in front of the computer move it far away + use wireless dongle INSANE SPEED !!


i been using 800 DPI 7 SENS IN OW BUT NOW ITS MUCH FASTERRR I CANT CONTROL IT LOL

 

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My PSU, Motherboard, or GPU making crackling noise when I with out headphones, and with headphones, it's even more. I never heard it before.
it's depends on the Load of the gpu.

I read its coil whine and it has more affect when using headphones.

Some information about TSC


2.4) HPET

HPET is quite complex, and was originally intended to replace the PIT / RTC
support of the X86 PC. It remains to be seen whether that will be the case, as
the de facto standard of PC hardware is to emulate these older devices. Some
systems designated as legacy free may support only the HPET as a hardware timer
device.

The HPET spec is rather loose and vague, requiring at least 3 hardware timers,
but allowing implementation freedom to support many more. It also imposes no
fixed rate on the timer frequency, but does impose some extremal values on
frequency, error and slew.

In general, the HPET is recommended as a high precision (compared to PIT /RTC)
time source which is independent of local variation (as there is only one HPET
in any given system). The HPET is also memory-mapped, and its presence is
indicated through ACPI tables by the BIOS.

Detailed specification of the HPET is beyond the current scope of this
document, as it is also very well documented elsewhere.

2.5) Offboard Timers

Several cards, both proprietary (watchdog boards) and commonplace (e1000) have
timing chips built into the cards which may have registers which are accessible
to kernel or user drivers. To the author's knowledge, using these to generate
a clocksource for a Linux or other kernel has not yet been attempted and is in
general frowned upon as not playing by the agreed rules of the game. Such a
timer device would require additional support to be virtualized properly and is
not considered important at this time as no known operating system does this.

=========================================================================

3) TSC Hardware

The TSC or time stamp counter is relatively simple in theory; it counts
instruction cycles issued by the processor, which can be used as a measure of
time. In practice, due to a number of problems, it is the most complicated
timekeeping device to use.

The TSC is represented internally as a 64-bit MSR which can be read with the
RDMSR, RDTSC, or RDTSCP (when available) instructions. In the past, hardware
limitations made it possible to write the TSC, but generally on old hardware it
was only possible to write the low 32-bits of the 64-bit counter, and the upper
32-bits of the counter were cleared. Now, however, on Intel processors family
0Fh, for models 3, 4 and 6, and family 06h, models e and f, this restriction
has been lifted and all 64-bits are writable. On AMD systems, the ability to
write the TSC MSR is not an architectural guarantee.

The TSC is accessible from CPL-0 and conditionally, for CPL > 0 software by
means of the CR4.TSD bit, which when enabled, disables CPL > 0 TSC access.

Some vendors have implemented an additional instruction, RDTSCP, which returns
atomically not just the TSC, but an indicator which corresponds to the
processor number. This can be used to index into an array of TSC variables to
determine offset information in SMP systems where TSCs are not synchronized.
The presence of this instruction must be determined by consulting CPUID feature
bits.

Both VMX and SVM provide extension fields in the virtualization hardware which
allows the guest visible TSC to be offset by a constant. Newer implementations
promise to allow the TSC to additionally be scaled, but this hardware is not
yet widely available.

3.1) TSC synchronization

The TSC is a CPU-local clock in most implementations. This means, on SMP
platforms, the TSCs of different CPUs may start at different times depending
on when the CPUs are powered on. Generally, CPUs on the same die will share
the same clock, however, this is not always the case.

The BIOS may attempt to resynchronize the TSCs during the poweron process and
the operating system or other system software may attempt to do this as well.
Several hardware limitations make the problem worse - if it is not possible to
write the full 64-bits of the TSC, it may be impossible to match the TSC in
newly arriving CPUs to that of the rest of the system, resulting in
unsynchronized TSCs. This may be done by BIOS or system software, but in
practice, getting a perfectly synchronized TSC will not be possible unless all
values are read from the same clock, which generally only is possible on single
socket systems or those with special hardware support.

3.2) TSC and CPU hotplug

As touched on already, CPUs which arrive later than the boot time of the system
may not have a TSC value that is synchronized with the rest of the system.
Either system software, BIOS, or SMM code may actually try to establish the TSC
to a value matching the rest of the system, but a perfect match is usually not
a guarantee. This can have the effect of bringing a system from a state where
TSC is synchronized back to a state where TSC synchronization flaws, however
small, may be exposed to the OS and any virtualization environment.

3.3) TSC and multi-socket / NUMA

Multi-socket systems, especially large multi-socket systems are likely to have
individual clocksources rather than a single, universally distributed clock.
Since these clocks are driven by different crystals, they will not have
perfectly matched frequency, and temperature and electrical variations will
cause the CPU clocks, and thus the TSCs to drift over time. Depending on the
exact clock and bus design, the drift may or may not be fixed in absolute
error, and may accumulate over time.

In addition, very large systems may deliberately slew the clocks of individual
cores. This technique, known as spread-spectrum clocking, reduces EMI at the
clock frequency and harmonics of it, which may be required to pass FCC
standards for telecommunications and computer equipment.

It is recommended not to trust the TSCs to remain synchronized on NUMA or
multiple socket systems for these reasons.

3.4) TSC and C-states

C-states, or idling states of the processor, especially C1E and deeper sleep
states may be problematic for TSC as well. The TSC may stop advancing in such
a state, resulting in a TSC which is behind that of other CPUs when execution
is resumed. Such CPUs must be detected and flagged by the operating system
based on CPU and chipset identifications.

The TSC in such a case may be corrected by catching it up to a known external
clocksource.

3.5) TSC frequency change / P-states

To make things slightly more interesting, some CPUs may change frequency. They
may or may not run the TSC at the same rate, and because the frequency change
may be staggered or slewed, at some points in time, the TSC rate may not be
known other than falling within a range of values. In this case, the TSC will
not be a stable time source, and must be calibrated against a known, stable,
external clock to be a usable source of time.

Whether the TSC runs at a constant rate or scales with the P-state is model
dependent and must be determined by inspecting CPUID, chipset or vendor
specific MSR fields.

In addition, some vendors have known bugs where the P-state is actually
compensated for properly during normal operation, but when the processor is
inactive, the P-state may be raised temporarily to service cache misses from
other processors. In such cases, the TSC on halted CPUs could advance faster
than that of non-halted processors. AMD Turion processors are known to have
this problem.

3.6) TSC and STPCLK / T-states

External signals given to the processor may also have the effect of stopping
the TSC. This is typically done for thermal emergency power control to prevent
an overheating condition, and typically, there is no way to detect that this
condition has happened.
 

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Anyone with Headphones and while you use the headphones on the head gets close to the computer case while it has no load and when it has high load. tell me if you hear anything weird.

I'm getting so close to the source. I need more statistics. We already know how to input lag started when we started using PCI and PCI-E GPUs, I remember I played Need for Speed Hot Pursuit in software mode with 320x240 resolution and I was PRO as ****, I could pass the Hardest AI 2 laps. I did turns that no one could expect to do at speed 150Mph, mili meter from the wall. Also, APU or Integrated GPU is also using PCI-E Lanes so it is exactly the same, it just not as strong.
 

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I had an old AMD GPU play a screeching sound through my onboard microphone. Probably a bad design in the ground plane causing a loop. It did not affect the mouse though.
 

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For some reason, the input lag came back. and also my Enermax TR4 360mm AIO cooling started to cause issues, so I opened the case removed the Enermax AIO, and put Noctua TR4 cooler. then removed one Enermax fan and used Noctua 140 Fan and Noctua black edition fan for the CPU, connected each on different CPU connector. CPU FAN and CPU OPT. After I've done this change I connected everything exactly to the same place the Input lag disappeared once again. Weird things happen inside the case and outside the case.

The Enermax pump Power connector/Fan connector or the Enermax Fan might both caused issues. because that's the only thing I removed, I didn't move anything except maybe the cables of Triple Noctua fans on the top.

Again, we are getting closer and closer to understand this issue exactly.

EDIT : Hmm I didn't know the Internal Speakers + AI Sound Pro has weird input lag. after disabling it the mouse return to normal.


EDIT: I checked at my friend's house and he is a GAMER. his mouse was exactly the issue I had before without FERRITE. so my guess is it happens to everyone and they don't even know it. I couldn't even AIM with his computer INTEL 9900K and SteelSeries PRIME mouse at COD Warzone Multiplayer. it was NEARLY Impossible. With Curve expensive monitor.

I had the same issues at my workplace with more than 100 computers. so it is just EMI. and no you don't need UPS to fix it. you just need the RIGHT FERRITE on the RIGHT Cables.


Using the 3MM FERRITE on the mouse cable that connected to the USB slot made a whole different.
 
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