Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 388 Posts

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Different way, needs more testing
Quote:
this measures how long clicks last. l.exe for left clicks, r.exe for right clicks
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_qzxdnJV0PSTJpLUNITFl6Sk0/view?usp=sharing
(yea you can do it too with the previous thing but this is easier for taking averages)
Open either l.exe or r.exe
Click the mouse button in the fastest/quickest way you can. Different force will be required depending on the mouse.
Keep track of the lowest number you see.
Try and beat that number
When it seems you can't get a lower result, screenshot or copy the numbers in the window.
Post em if you want(Make sure to specify the report rate(1000hz,500hz etc) and which mouse you tested.

Generally the higher the debounce, the harder it will be to get the switch to register with very little force.

There are exceptions to this though.

Let's make believe you are a mail room clerk tasked with coding the firmware for a mouse. In this case the MAD CATZ RAT 1.



See those numbers? The debounce delay is 14ms, but the delay between button presses goes as low as 1.96ms.

Another exception is if the mouse has proper debouncing:

Areson/Gigabyte M63 Raptor:


Any Logitech gaming mouse ever made(G303 in this case):


In those cases, the debounce delay is low but the button release delay is set to a higher value.

...or something, anyway i'll be interested in seeing any results posted

PRETTY EASY.


Alligator Clips?


Software:
Quote:
Previously Used Methods:
Rafa's Method:


Rafa's infamous graph:

Thunderbringers Method:



Additional tests performed by Thunderbringer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post

Some results i got from testing, the Steelseries Ikari Optical always as reference:

CM Storm Alcor (1.2.0 firmware)


Logitech G302



Razer DA 3G (1.35 1.28NDC firmware iirc)


Razer Abyssus 3G


The difference between my and rafa´s Abyssus result is kind of big. Either the response time can vary ~10ms from unit to unit or the Mouse driver plays a role? I plan to test Abyssus with installed driver soon. (Edit: made no difference, still ~12ms with driver installed!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post

@OP No BS.

ZowieAM vs SS Ikari Optical (difference: 16.9ms-18.9ms) :



ZowieFk1 vs SS Ikari Optical (difference: 15.9ms-17.9ms) :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post

I have compared the Razer Viper button latency with a SS Ikari Optical, out of curiosity since the Viper Sensor implementation always felt very responsive to me. (can not provide pics this time, dont have access to my pc/moving atm)
The Ikari
is 35-40ms faster,
haha.
biggrin.gif
rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post

Hoorai GM1100 (A) vs SS Ikari Optical (B)




sousu:

This slower method emulates rafa's method without soldering
I would like to remind you that this method can be done in a variety of ways. There is no one way for it to be done. You can use different connectors, alligator clips, and so on. I only do the jumper method because it's clean and simple.

Materials:
2 mice
Solderless Breadboard
Jumper Wires
Spare microswitch(you can just pull one off a spare side button pcb, it will work just as well)

2 mice, and a omron d2fc7n on a solderless breadboard:


4 jumper wires(In this case male to female)


Wire the jumper wires in a way that has them connected to the CENTER PIN and PIN LOCATED NEAREST TO THE BUTTON ON THE MICROSWITCH In this case there are spaces between the pins, so I only connected the jumpers to the appropriate pins slot.


Connect the wires to the contacts on the underside of the mice being tested. This can be very irritating especially with the shown method. Just make sure they are somewhat secure in the sense that they do not move.

Again, there are so many freaking ways to do this. However in this case, I wired the male part of the jumper cables to raised sockets on the solderless breadboard. One row goes to one mouse, the other row is wired to the other mouse. So now when the switch is pressed on the breadboard, the switch will actuate both switches at the same time.


Alternate shot that I included for reasons I can't recall.

Mice That I Have Tested(More in the thread, but laziness has kept me from updating the OP
redface.gif
):

M63 Raptor vs Ikari Optical Test Result:
So what would be the fastest mouse I have tested so far? The Gigabyte M63 Raptor.

Out of 700 events, Ikari Optical only won 37 times. So averaging the remaining events the Raptor won....

Average: 0.563411ms
Deviation: 0.541327ms


ikarivsm63raptor.txt 7k .txt file

Mouse that I've tested so far and will might possibly eventually re test so I can have averages for everything. Still the numbers presented are accurate, only now when I redo them they will be higher in general because I will the use Ikari Optical instead.

diamondback 3g
first test:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24245115
second test:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/550_50#post_24380387

diamondback 3060/3070 http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/450_50#post_24349586

diamondback plasma le http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/450_50#post_24349586

rog sica http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/350_50#post_24230099

deathadder 3g
first test:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24240641
second test with ideal fw:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/500_50#post_24373151

abyssus 2014 http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24245218

g302:
first test:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24248785
second test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/550_50#post_24376166

g303: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24250938

azio ex01 http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24255810

zowie fk1 2015 revision http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24308673

tt esports talon blu http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/500_50#post_24364755

g100s
first test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/350_50#post_24225565
second test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24248785

sensei raw
first test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/350_50#post_24235781
second test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/550_50#post_24376297

m63 raptor
first test:http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/350_50#post_24229916
second test: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/500_50#post_24368341

team scorpion x luca r http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/350_50#post_24235918

copperhead(all firmwares) http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24251911

nova slider x600 http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/500_50#post_24357688

alienware tactx http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24294118

razer krait 1600dpi http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24245115

evga x3l http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/450_50#post_24357193

creative f2020 laser http://www.overclock.net/t/1568089/old-school-mice-fatal1ty-2020-laser-mouse-pics-feels-debounce-delay-test/0_50#post_24260187

ikari laser WOOPS NEVER POSTED IT

ikari optical POSTED IN THIS THREAD

lachesis 3g http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_50#post_24278133

roccat lua http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/450_50#post_24348971

All Logitech, Razer & Steelseries Mice Tested So Far:
Logitech:
G1
G100
G100S
G3 LASER
G3 OPTICAL
G5 LASER
G300/G300s
G302
G303
G400
G400S
G402
G502
G500
G600
G9
G9X
MX310
MX518

Razer:
Viper
Lachesis 3G
Salmosa
Copperhead
Krait
Diamondback OG
Diamondback Plasma LE
Boomslang 2007 CE
DeathAdder 3G
Deathadder Chroma
Deathadder 3.5G
Habu
Spectre
Abyssus 1st Rev(Unclear)
Abyssus 2nd Rev(Unclear)
Abyssus 2014
Taipan

Steelseries:
Ikari Optical
Ikari Laser
Kinzu V1
Kinzu V2
Kana
Kana V2
Sensei Raw
Rival
Reaper Edge
Kana
Xai

Missing/Untested Logitech, Razer & Steelseries Mice:
Logitech:
MX300

Razer:
Lachesis V2 5600dpi
Mamba
Mamba 2012
Mamba Tournament Edition
Naga* & Naga 2014
Orochi
Imperator & Imperator 2012
Tron
*Multiple versions released, differences unknown.

Steelseries:
Kinzu V3
Sensei A9800
Sensei Fnatic A9500
World Of Warcraft mmo
 

Attachments

·
lololol
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
you can skip the breadboard and just connect each mice's switch, and just click one of the switches to actuate both
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by qsxcv View Post

you can skip the breadboard and just connect each mice's switch, and just click one of the switches to actuate both
Yeah was too paranoid to do it.
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Anyone have a G1 laying around? It is the only g series logitech mouse that has not been tested.
 

·
lololol
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
there's also the g300s you're missing
tongue.gif


lol alligator clips...totally forgot about those. that makes this test completely trivial now
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Fixed. Forgot it existed somehow. G300s was just a new shell, so I'll put it with the G300 as tested.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,764 Posts
Maybe include a ninja technique on how to remove the feet without ruining them. Hopefully this thread will take off with more contributors.
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, not a lot of people out there willing to puncture/drill holes in the mouse feet and and not replace the feet afterwards.

Though in my first g303 it added some drag which I got used to, then had to readjust when I got a new one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
sorry, could you please explain the method textually? I miss the guide
wink.gif


connect both mice
connct Mouse 1 MB1 pin [middle] to Mouse 2 MB2 pin [middle]
which button to press? MB1 / MB2
possible programm putput is - and +?

What is the exactly difference to the other methods?
Quote:
Analyzing Firmware Added Mouse Button Delay
Real analyzing? I don't get it. Your are also measuring the delay, didn't you?

Sorry if I misunderstood the whole thing....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,486 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeSA View Post

sorry, could you please explain the method textually? I miss the guide
wink.gif


connect both mice
connct Mouse 1 MB1 pin [middle] to Mouse 2 MB2 pin [middle]
which button to press? MB1 / MB2
possible programm putput is - and +?

What is the exactly difference to the other methods?
Real analyzing? I don't get it. Your are also measuring the delay, didn't you?

Sorry if I misunderstood the whole thing....
I was confused too. Which is why I didn't post in this thread.
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
1 wire. Connect the middle pin on the switch contact (underside of the pcb). Wire both mice together like shown in the op. Hit either switch to actuate both.
 

·
lololol
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
negative means the left button registered first.
positive means the right

it's explained in the readme...
 

·
AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
Joined
·
3,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by uaokkkkkkkk View Post

Good so I won't have to buy the kinzu v1 now. Fine by me.
- = Ikari Optical
+ =Sensei Raw (fw120)
300 Events
Winner: Ikari
Average:6.90485ms
Deviation: 1.11221ms


sensei.txt 3k .txt file
Steelseries Xai. Sensei with a lcd screen basically right? Well about that...

Method Used:


Yeah, yeah I know. But I enjoy it this way more for some reason.

Steelseries Xai fw1.2.179

Winner: Ikari Optical

Events:300
Avg : 10.8152ms
Deviation. : 0.834344ms
Max. : 12.8776ms
Min. : 8.86943ms


xai12179.txt 3k .txt file


Absolutely pitiful.

However! You can't use this firmware with any of the available software, so this would be filed under unusable.

So here is the one I found useable.

Steelseries Xai fw1.3.1

Winner: Ikari Optical

Events:300
Avg: 5.32837ms
Deviation: 0.618615ms
Max.: 6.87515ms
Min: 3.8698ms


131fw.txt 3k .txt file


Much better. So faster then the Sensei Raw with the proper firmware. It's not Ikari fast but that was never expected. Oh, and 1.4.2 has the same fw debounce delay as 1.3.1

Slapped a sensei raw shell on to reduce the weight even more after removing the side button pcb. Xai shell is definitely sturdier though.

Oh and this is all I did to maintain glide this time:
Another steelseries mouse to cross of the untested list.
thumb.gif
 

Attachments

·
lololol
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
we've gotta figure out a setup for you to do a 2015 version of mousescore to compare variance between all those mice
tongue.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,486 Posts
Debounce affects scrolls the same way as switches?
Quote:
Originally Posted by qsxcv View Post

we've gotta figure out a setup for you to do a 2015 version of mousescore to compare variance between all those mice
tongue.gif
Sucks that each firmware update would have to be tested because sometimes they feel like changing the debounce for no reason. That's what happened to the Ninox mouse -- the factory added a bunch of debounce for "improved quality."
 

·
lololol
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
for optical encoders probably nonissue with a bit of hysteresis.
for mechanical encoders...
on my ninox aurora i'd always get "scrolling neg accel" when scrolling fast. checked with mousetester interval plot and turns out you cant scroll faster than like one scroll/5ms
on my torq x5 there's no such issue. just checked again... it's like 2ms when i use my forearm to spin the wheel very very quickly. on optical encoders i can easily get down to 1ms, so that means there's a 2ms debounce time or something with the torq x5
 
1 - 20 of 388 Posts
Top