[Shiobock]

Hello, first time poster on this board, excuse any newbie-esque behavior and questions I might have for you.

I've built a small nest-egg for myself to buy good 2.0 speakers and a budget amplifier with, and even though I'm nowhere near finished with the choices regarding the said equipment (I loved Wharfedale 9.4's and Proson Conquest 6020 MK2's I listened to at a local brick & mortar store), I would love to get an answer to something I've been pondering for few weeks:

Since most floor speakers are a tad too short to be used with a PC properly, I thought it would look sweet and sound better to the PC user if the speakers were kept on small sturdy shelves, lifting them up with a foot or so. This was my vision of the whole thing assembled:

I know the mini shelves don't look way too "sturdy" but that was a honest mistake and it's too late to do another good render, sorry!
Of course floor speakers are rather big to be used like this, should they be further away from the listener, or is it uncomfortable to listen to them this close? Will the stands hinder the performance of the speakers critically?

 

[BlankThis]

I would go with a nice set of shelf speakers over floor speakers. Will probably be cheaper and you won't have to worry about stands

~B~

 

[legoman786]

I miss floor standing speakers.

If I can find a pair with a pair of 10" woofers again, I'm booting out my Klipsch ProMedias. Granted, I can find a good amp as well.

For the stands, can't you have a sheet of wood nailed into the back? Maybe fabricate L-brackets for support.

 

[LukeG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlankThis I would go with a nice set of shelf speakers over floor speakers. Will probably be cheaper and you won't have to worry about stands ~B~

He wants 2.0, not 2.1.... Bookshelfs wont give the bass you want.

To the poster, go ahead, it will work, although it will get loud

, I currently have my floor standing 2 feet to the front/side of me. Head height on tweeter and mid, low ranges are lower.

On speaker choice, if you were looking for something with bass check the elemental designs A6 towers.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...products_id=96

Of the 2 you listed the pronson....

 

[Shiobock]

I don't have any plans for the stands themselves, I'll grab the first ones I'll find for a modest price, and maybe I'll try decoupling them from the floor with those spiky feet things, and put something relatively soft underneath the speakers legs themselves in order to prevent any vibrations with the stand.

I don't know why but shelf speakers don't look good to me at all, I'm sure there are some drawbacks with the small enclosures too. Not that I'd be THAT hi-fi that I'd hear anything remarkable with shelf vs. floor speakers, I'd just want to have adequate bass from my system without an expensive, mostly useless subwoofer because I'm living in an apartment block and my neighbours would get me evicted if I used the damn thing at all. Am I making any sense, if I presume that most budget floor speakers do low tones better than the shelf speakers?

And regarding the price, I'll spend some 400-500$ on the speakers anyway so for example 100$'s of savings from getting shelves vs. floors wouldn't cheer me up at all if I'll have to stand lesser bass for a ridiculous amount of time for that, I don't buy new stuff unless there's a drastic improvement so I wish the speakers to last me a good while.

 

[TUDJ]

Floorstands go lower in general, yes.

I have my floorstanders either side of my desk (they are about 4-5ft apart) and they're about 2ft ahead of me. Although not ideal, the sound is fine for general listening and there isn't too much of a difference when I move back to my bed.

Here's a pic to give you a better idea of how I'm setup.

Here's a pic of how it used to look with smaller speakers on stands;

I much prefer the floorstanders in terms of looks and sound. I have thought about raising my current speakers up high but I don't think that the difference in sound is worth the effort.

 

[LukeG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tUDJ Floorstands go lower in general, yes. I have my floorstanders either side of my desk (they are about 4-5ft apart) and they're about 2ft ahead of me. Although not ideal, the sound is fine for general listening and there isn't too much of a difference when I move back to my bed. Here's a pic to give you a better idea of how I'm setup. Here's a pic of how it used to look with smaller speakers on stands; I much prefer the floorstanders in terms of looks and sound. I have thought about raising my current speakers up high but I don't think that the difference in sound is worth the effort.

I would raise them and direct them to you. Dome tweeters arnt too bad with directional sound, but I notice I miss a lot of the cymbal with horn loaded.

Nice clean setup.

 

[Mygaffer]

I have a pair of VS-80 floor standing speakers on an entry level Harmon Kadron amp and it sounds better than any computer speakers I've ever used.
the speakers aren't that tall, only about two feet, so I sit them right on my desk, towering over my 22" LCD. Meaning that they end up being about two feet from my head, but I like my sound loud and beefy, which the VS-80's definitely provide.
Since I watch nearly all my media(TV, Movies, Games, Music) on my computer it is nice to have a setup like this. Movies sound especially good.
Maybe I'll upload a pic when I get home from work. Anyway, I think if you are into sound that good floor standing speakers with a good amp is the way to go. Although I've heard some bookshelf speakers that sound really good too. Just stay away from computer speakers.

 

[TUDJ]

I forgot to ask, what size is the room Shiobock?

Floorstanders might be a bit overbearing with bass if the room is too small.

 

[grip_racer]

I used to use my Advent AS2s on upside-down terracotta flower pots. They worked great, haha. For the look you want, check out Target. I think they have stack-able wooden cube storage for sale.

But as for the sound, yes, I can tell you from personal experience that large, multi-driver speakers are NOT ideal for nearfield listening. The sound has no room to combine. I went from my big Advent AS2s (1" tweeter, 2 6.5" woofers) down to 5.25" Celestion bookshelfs, and then down to my Pinnacle AC400s (4" mid woofer). The Pinnacles have been the best for computer listening, and I just reinforce them with a very very good 8" subwoofer.

The thing is, small speakers get closer to the ideal "point-source", where all of the sound comes from a single point. This makes them much better in nearfield listening. GOOD small speakers "disappear" much more easily, and this is a great effect.

 

[soloz2]

you can do what you're looking for rather easily and I've seen it done before. But a word of caution.

Get sealed or front ported speakers! placing speakers too near boundaries really inhibits their ability to image and increases low frequency output. Sometimes this is good, but that close will give you boomy bass.

 

[cyberspyder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloz2 you can do what you're looking for rather easily and I've seen it done before. But a word of caution. Get sealed or front ported speakers! placing speakers too near boundaries really inhibits their ability to image and increases low frequency output. Sometimes this is good, but that close will give you boomy bass.

Ditto....you're gonna nee at least 2-3 feet from the speaker side (to a wall) and about the same (if not more) from the back of the speaker to the wall.

 

[Shiobock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberspyder Ditto....you're gonna nee at least 2-3 feet from the speaker side (to a wall) and about the same (if not more) from the back of the speaker to the wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer The thing is, small speakers get closer to the ideal "point-source", where all of the sound comes from a single point. This makes them much better in nearfield listening. GOOD small speakers "disappear" much more easily, and this is a great effect.

These were the things I was mostly afraid of, thanks for the information.

The room is a relatively large 19 x 29 footer. Of course I car drag the table some three feet away from the speakers, but I don't think I want the whole set-up in the middle of the room. Gotta look into this front ported/sealed speaker business, so I'll prevent any unwanted phenomena. As far as boomy bass goes, would turning down the bass from the amplifier a notch totally kill the sound?

 

[Shiobock]

Sorry for the doublepostage, my friend lent me his old Audio Pro Stage 44 shelf speakers and a Yamaha R-300 amplifier, at the moment they're on the table two and a half feet away from me, almost on level with my head, enough for them to sound good, no real difference when lowering my head few inches. I'm on a corner table, and even though the speakers have reflex ports on the backs and they're rather near to the wall I'm not experiencing an overwhelming boomy bass when keeping the equalizer flat.

They're about 11"/29,5cm tall, and the sound doesn't seem that distorted, even though they're rather close to me. Now if I were to get floor speakers where the distance between lower woofer and the tweeter is almost twice as much as in shelf speakers, and the distance from them would be double, wouldn't the sound from different elements basically "mix" just as well as it does now?

Allow me to elaborate the current (in my opinion very sufficient setup)

I hope I'm not grinding your hi-fi gears too much, when I say it sounds rather good! That might just be the upgrade from 5W Hercules satellite speakers to these babies, but in the other hand I've also heard lots of high quality speakers that didn't please me half as much as these.

 

[grip_racer]

The speakers in the picture are angled in too far -- open them up a bit so they point at your ears instead of crossing at a 90* angle in front of your head.

Why so stuck on floorstanders? Why not use a setup similar to what your friend lent you, and add a small subwoofer?

With 2-way speakers (this does not apply to 3-way), midrange is generally much better with smaller drivers anyway. IMO, 2-way speakers that use 6.5" or larger woofers just don't cut it in the midrange, unless they are super-high-quality woofers with a tweeter that is of equal quality (generally, larger more expensive tweeters can dip into the midrange). For a nice, natural midrange, I believe that woofers of 5.25" diameter or smaller are much better (but not ideal. the 2-way design is hard to get right.)

If you go with a 3-way floorstander though, a clear midrange becomes much less of a problem, as there is a dedicated driver for it.

I suggest either 3-ways or small bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer.

 

[Shiobock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer The speakers in the picture are angled in too far -- open them up a bit so they point at your ears instead of crossing at a 90* angle in front of your head. Why so stuck on floorstanders? Why not use a setup similar to what your friend lent you, and add a small subwoofer? With 2-way speakers (this does not apply to 3-way), midrange is generally much better with smaller drivers anyway. IMO, 2-way speakers that use 6.5" or larger woofers just don't cut it in the midrange, unless they are super-high-quality woofers with a tweeter that is of equal quality (generally, larger more expensive tweeters can dip into the midrange). For a nice, natural midrange, I believe that woofers of 5.25" diameter or smaller are much better (but not ideal. the 2-way design is hard to get right.) If you go with a 3-way floorstander though, a clear midrange becomes much less of a problem, as there is a dedicated driver for it. I suggest either 3-ways or small bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer.

Well, these speakers might be for sale in a little while, so maybe I'm going to purchase them from him, although I'd rather an amplifier that didn't have a wiggly volume control.

Good points you got there, but aren't good quality 3-way speakers much more expensive than good quality 2-way speakers? I haven't really looked into it because that's what I've always been told, of course it would be best to listen myself but I haven't gotten the chance to attend any Hi-Fi events yet, will do this fall.

The idea of big speakers = better is somewhat stuck into my head, and the lack of ability to use a subwoofer properly in my apartment made me think that bigger woofer would let me experience slightly better bass without getting me evicted. But I think well defined middle range sound is a lot more important than some extra oomph on the bass, so maybe I can deal with it or get a small subwoofer to go with them if it gets that unbearable to life without the whole flat shaking

I guess I'm going with either one that sounds good, there must be good candidates in both categories, and maybe I can take a look at the 3-way speakers or buy them second hand if someone has affordable models for sale.

 

[grip_racer]

Haha, its weird to me that you associate subs with eviction and speakers with large woofers as acceptable? Its all the same in the end. Good subwoofers (and their use by people that like good sound i.e. not bass-heads) aren't about huge SPL. They are simply about reinforcing the 20-80hz part of the audible spectrum, on level with your main speakers, and as accurately as possible.

Anyway, if you want good 3-way floorstanders, just check eBay. There are hundreds of awesome used 3-ways on there. Buying used gets you way more performance for your money, I personally think new speakers are a total joke when it comes to how much they cost.

But in your search, keep in the back of your mind how accurate (and flexible! Think about placement options, decor integration, and moving day!) a set of small, well-made bookshelf speakers and a quality sub can be.

 

[Shiobock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer Haha, its weird to me that you associate subs with eviction and speakers with large woofers as acceptable? Its all the same in the end. Good subwoofers (and their use by people that like good sound i.e. not bass-heads) aren't about huge SPL. They are simply about reinforcing the 20-80hz part of the audible spectrum, on level with your main speakers, and as accurately as possible. Anyway, if you want good 3-way floorstanders, just check eBay. There are hundreds of awesome used 3-ways on there. Buying used gets you way more performance for your money, I personally think new speakers are a total joke when it comes to how much they cost. But in your search, keep in the back of your mind how accurate (and flexible! Think about placement options, decor integration, and moving day!) a set of small, well-made bookshelf speakers and a quality sub can be.

Most certainly you've enlightened me quite a bit with your constructive criticism, and I think I'll learn a lot more while stalking this board and browsing the interbutts, thanks!

Subwoofers I've usually heard have been very strong, maybe for sales pitch purposes, or if not in stores then used by bass-heads, I guess. But good to know they serve other purposes than delivering "oomph". I'll learn in time, today I discovered how horrid mp3 tends to sound with musicals, operas and sharp instruments. Hi-Fi enlightement here we come!

 

[grip_racer]

no prob

Yeah, the subs you see in stores (z5500 sets and the like) are usually box-tuned and equalized for boomy, inaccurate, loud bass. Buying a stand-alone subwoofer made by a non-best-buy brand unit generally gets you a sub that has been made with extension, linearity, and accuracy (at a certain price point) in mind.

haha and yes, low-bitrate MP3 doesn't sound great. However, up around 320kbps, MP3 is actually quite good. Much like a JPEG file, where image quality depends on how high you have set the compressor.

This whole scene is definitely a learning process. I've been at it for years.

 

[Shiobock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer no prob Yeah, the subs you see in stores (z5500 sets and the like) are usually box-tuned and equalized for boomy, inaccurate, loud bass. Buying a stand-alone subwoofer made by a non-best-buy brand unit generally gets you a sub that has been made with extension, linearity, and accuracy (at a certain price point) in mind. haha and yes, low-bitrate MP3 doesn't sound great. However, up around 320kbps, MP3 is actually quite good. Much like a JPEG file, where image quality depends on how high you have set the compressor. This whole scene is definitely a learning process. I've been at it for years.

I suspect the subwoofers targeted for in-car use are out of question if I just want to enhance the low tones? A local store is offering a Pioneer 10" element with a front ported enclosure for just under 200$, but I won't be able to listen to it in there.

And the MP3 in question was VBR, the highest bitrate it had was 192kbps when the lady was practically screaming from the top of her lungs. Not quite the optimal condition for opera I guess, and even my little brother heard the distraction. The amp and speakers are intact, since some FLAC and WAV files played much much better.

EDIT: Spotify seems to deliver reasonable quality though.