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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Quote:
Why 4K-Derived PPI matters

My first reaction when I heard of 4K displays on phones and tablets was skepticism, until I started researched the topic. First of all, many in the industry generally agree that humans can perceive differences in max PPI ranging roughly from 350 to 575 PPI at a ten inch distance. The better the vision, the higher the visual acuity, and my Note 3, at nearly half the maximum, has a ways to go. Personally, I am painfully near-sighted and I can see pixels on a phone or tablet where others cannot. Others in the industry (Sharp and Qualcomm) and some researchers are talking about vernier acuity, or the ability to see the differences among two line segments. This suggests that human's visual system is much more complex, indicating that humans can assess differences 5-10X the detail of visual acuity.
Of course, my quote of choice has less to do with mobile and more to do with the screen.

Finally we have an article with more than the usual "lines blur together at such and such a distance, therefore 4K is useless" drivel.

Vernier acuity = sensitivity to jaggies. 5-10x sensitivity compared to normal visual acuity. That's what I'm talking about.
 

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Good. I have pretty good eyesight and I can still see pixels on high resolution phones. I really want 4k to become mainstream.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

Vernier acuity = sensitivity to jaggies. 5-10x sensitivity compared to normal visual acuity. That's what I'm talking about.
Yep. That's the real metric to use, and for some reason we humans are very, very good at seeing differences between two lines. Getting rid of jaggies is pretty much the hardest task as far as how displays interact with our visual system. Nice to see someone paying attention to it with more scientific rigor.

I will point out though that 4k *is* useless for TVs. They are, actually, far enough away so that you won't be able to see the difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Yep. That's the real metric to use, and for some reason we humans are very, very good at seeing differences between two lines. Getting rid of jaggies is pretty much the hardest task as far as how displays interact with our visual system. Nice to see someone paying attention to it with more scientific rigor.

I will point out though that 4k *is* useless for TVs. They are, actually, far enough away so that you won't be able to see the difference.
Naaah. You just sit at 1 meter from a 32'' one and 4K makes perfect sense
smile.gif
 

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I always maintained that even if ppi is past the point where we can distinguish individual pixels, at the very least it will still add natural anti-aliasing. Somewhat gratifying to see the same result from research.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benladesh View Post

Good. I have pretty good eyesight and I can still see pixels on high resolution phones. I really want 4k to become mainstream.
You need to make use of that kind of eyesight in a high paying job, cause DAYUM. I can't see pixels unless i looked really hard on my note 2 1080p screen. 4K on mobile (unless it's tablets) is a waste

But I do want that 4K 27" screen
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

I can't see pixels unless i looked really hard on my note 2 1080p screen.
The Note II utilizes a 720p screen resolution. Not 1080p. What you should be interested in is the pixel density.. and that's that PPI number. I have them both highlighted.

The higher the pixel density (PPI) is, the harder it gets to spot those pesky pixels
thumb.gif


 

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PPI is useful, but halfway there. What really matters is pixel per degree, which takes into consideration viewing distance.
 

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are smartphone manufacturers going to keep pushing (mostly) pointless ppi upgrades as a way of promoting phones? probably yes. is a 500ppi 5" device going to be equivalent to the experience you get on a true 4k 27-30" display? no, just no
 

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strong username to post content
smile.gif


I've been waiting for an Android 8" tablet to ship with a 64-bit processor and 1600p for $300
may be I can hold out another year and perhaps they'll release 4K mobile devices then.
rolleyes.gif

I don't care how crappy Android games are...being able to run 4K content natively is a major selling point to me esp if I wont upgrade my TV/monitors for a very long time
 

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Let fix the title,

Mobile population could be the primary driver for 4k hype experiences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

I will point out though that 4k *is* useless for TVs. They are, actually, far enough away so that you won't be able to see the difference.
How far away do you sit?
From my calculations the absolute maximum a person could use from 9 feet is 200DPI, but that is a little overkill (beyond the point of just smoothing jaggies) so even if we stick at 100DPI, half the absolute maximum that a I can see, a 4K screen should be no smaller than... 44 inches, at 9 feet, that's pretty small. Actually when I do jaggie tests on my laptop (100DPI) screen 9 feet is just where the jaggies start to blur. So for more average seating a 60 inch 4K display at 12 feet is about right.
If you want to avoid aliasing then really you should say that a 4K screen should be no larger than 60 inches at 12 feet. It's almost backward that everyone seems to want to be able to see each pixel on their screen, lowering image fidelity compared to their normal vision of the world around them.

Once these displays and devices become more common the average person will just love them, and given how close you hold a tablet or phone to your face, I have to agree with the Forbes article that the pixels per degree of 4K mobile devices won't be wasted at all, to the extent that we could probably use 8K tablets as well (10 inch 8K is 800DPI, which viewed at 1 foot is right on target).
I don't like the idea of 8K on a phone though, holding a device 6 inches away from your face just sounds like too much.

On another subject, my bet is that 8K and 4K will be the division between "premium" and "average" content moving forward for the next 50-100 years (until we find better display methods). 4K will be the standard that everyone uses but high end movies and such will shoot for 8K. Right now the Japanese are aiming to have 8K broadcasting ready for the 2020 Olympics.
 

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I too am near-sided, and when I remove my contact lenses are take off my glasses thing up close appear as if they were under a magnifying glass.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

No, not until mobile GPUs can handle it. Which will be LONG after desktop GPUs can.
2K screens are coming out this year....you better believe 4K will be here next year or 2015
since when did mobile GPU's rendering capabilities slowed down the adoption of higher and higher pixel count? I remember when 720p phones first launch they had terrible battery life...wait same thing applies to 1080p phones. The PowerVR from 2010 ran okay for my phone though at that res
 

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I want everything to be 4K so we can have 4K content. 4K in PC will push GPU makers to the limit. The leap from 1080p to 1600p is much smaller then 2160p. Right now there are quite a few GPU can then play 90% of the games out there @ 1440p 60Hz.
4K will require ~ GPU 2 - 3 times faster then the current best.
 

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Meh, my >3'' screen doesn't care about this. Huge phones are silly, so I'd only see the need for this on Tablets, but on those I wouldn't be watching HD content to care enough.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post

2K screens are coming out this year....you better believe 4K will be here next year or 2015
since when did mobile GPU's rendering capabilities slowed down the adoption of higher and higher pixel count? I remember when 720p phones first launch they had terrible battery life...wait same thing applies to 1080p phones. The PowerVR from 2010 ran okay for my phone though at that res
Oh, it'll happen, but it shouldn't.

I'd rather keep getting 1080p screens with increasingly better GPU's. At least this way the quality of mobile graphics in 3D games can be improved.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Oh, it'll happen, but it shouldn't.

I'd rather keep getting 1080p screens with increasingly better GPU's. At least this way the quality of mobile graphics in 3D games can be improved.
You will not get 4K games in mobile. Also quality games does not have to do anything with graphics in mobile.
 
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