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Performance is the bible
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...upcoming Comet Lake-S processors (...) actually do support PCI Express 4.0, some Z490 motherboards are designed for it as well.
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The reason behind this is presence of Jitter in the Z490 chipset signal, that causes instability in the data signal and that menas that specifications required for the PCI-Express 4.0 certification are simply not met.
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Several manufacturers added external clock generators to eliminate this Jitter, however not everyone did, so Intel made the decision to not support PCI-E 4.0 on this new platform.
Seems like intel relay on motherboards manufacturers to allow PCIE 4.0. I wonder why. Did AMD demanded they do it, while intel didn't or found out post design and they don't have time to come back to fix it?
Looks like a big oversight in design process if this is true.
But it could also be that in the future with firmware updates, some could give PCIE 4.0 on intel as well.
 

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LTSC for life crew
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Makes sense though - adding pcie 4 likely adds to the cost and isn't really all that needed for most at this point.
 

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I still find it funny that Intel is struggling so much with PCI-E 4. Not only did they help create the spec, but sucky companies like AS Media have no problems at all implementing the spec in their chipsets.
 

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I still find it funny that Intel is struggling so much with PCI-E 4. Not only did they help create the spec, but sucky companies like AS Media have no problems at all implementing the spec in their chipsets.
I don't think it has to do with the fact that they can't get it to work, it's that they would need to design a new chipset instead of using the same one they have been using for many years with a few minor tweaks here and there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine they have been using the same chipset since Broadwell.
 

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ٴٴٴ╲⎝⧹˙͜>˙⧸⎠╱
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I don't think it has to do with the fact that they can't get it to work, it's that they would need to design a new chipset instead of using the same one they have been using for many years with a few minor tweaks here and there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine they have been using the same chipset since Broadwell.

probably needs motherboard trace optimization or signal integrity to make pcie4 signal work
 

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I don't think it has to do with the fact that they can't get it to work, it's that they would need to design a new chipset instead of using the same one they have been using for many years with a few minor tweaks here and there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine they have been using the same chipset since Broadwell.
I agree. They would need to change the requirements for the chipset they had given to the Manufacturers. Great way to upset ___ manufacturer because you changed the requirement last minute , where they can implement a solution in time, or already have X inventory they need to get rid of some how.

So, does this mean that the chips have it permanently disabled, or can the bios allow you to enable it? It always bothers me to see functionality blocked because its not fully up to their standards.
 

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Seems pointless. May as well have waited for PCI-E 5.
 

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Really odd decision, since if PCIE-4 were included it would be the only compelling reason to upgrade from Z390. Totally bizarre. There is basically nothing lost for them by delaying the 10 series processors.
 

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Isn't PCIE 5.0 still a good 3 or 4 years out on consumer level stuff?
No idea, I would think that up to AMD and Intel themselves.. the spec was already finalised and available about a year ago.
I guess cost could be a factor, idk about any of that.
 

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Isn't PCIE 5.0 still a good 3 or 4 years out on consumer level stuff?
Nope 1 to 2 years. Most likely will drop around the same time as DDR5. It took about 2 years for AMD to adopt PCIE 4.0. So it should take about that to adopt 5.0. So we will probably see it next year. Also USB 4.0 next year. Next year will be exciting. :)
 

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Nope 1 to 2 years. Most likely will drop around the same time as DDR5. It took about 2 years for AMD to adopt PCIE 4.0. So it should take about that to adopt 5.0. So we will probably see it next year. Also USB 4.0 next year. Next year will be exciting. :)
Oh, nice. Might have to put off my upgrade plans another 6 months or so then.
 

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Performance is the bible
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Discussion Starter #13
Isn't PCIE 5.0 still a good 3 or 4 years out on consumer level stuff?
PCIE 4.0 final specs came out 2 years before PCIE 5.0.
4.0 bring new things, like OCuLink-2, and of course the higher clocks. But PCIE 5.0 isn't bringing something new, but mostly the big different is compression and data transfer protocol. Meaning PCIE 4.0 is using a similar transfer protocol as 3.0, but with higher clocks. 5.0 brings better data transfer protocols which allow higher bandwidth on the same new higher clocks.
There are 6 differences between 4.0 and 5.0, and they are mostly in a few features that were developed just after pcie 4.0 was completed.

So, what it means is that a motherboard that support PCIE 4.0 could potentially support PCIE 5.0 with the right firmware. That is why it is expected to already be available on the servers side in 2021 (along with DDR5) and it was leaked that intel will release new chips that support them.
Once it is on the server side, and when 7nm becomes common, we might see 5.0 starting to make its way into high end desktops.
 

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Getting a little tired of people saying/alluding to this so its time for a dose of reality. There is no way that PCI-E 5.0 is going to available anytime in the near future for the consumer. PCI-E 4.0 adds cost and complexity to a motherboard, etc and PCI-E 5.0 adds on top of that. Further the vast majority of consumers (including gamers) arent going to see the advantage of using a PCIE 4 system for some time (let alone a PCIE 5 system). I wouldnt be shocked if consumers were still running pcie 4.0 when the playstation 6 (yes 6) comes out.

AI, deep learning, crazy networking all see a benefit in switching to PCIE 5 for sure and they will when available but the consumer simply has no need for it for some time. Maybe HEDT systems will or they will simply have more PCIE 4 lanes

If im being short sighted ok i can except that. Give me a legitimate reason a consumer would need PCIE 5.0 anytime in the near future, and remember that im stressing consumer


Just because a newer faster spec is coming out soon doesnt mean it will be widely used. i mean PCIE 6.0 is being finalized in 2021 so i guess we should just wait huh?

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190618005945/en/PCI-SIG®-Announces-Upcoming-PCI-Express®-6.0-Specification
 

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If im being short sighted ok i can except that. Give me a legitimate reason a consumer would need PCIE 5.0 anytime in the near future, and remember that im stressing consumer

Not only will PCIE 5 give SSDs room to grow, but it would also enable low-end, basic consumer SSDs to get away with using a single lane and still have adequate performance. This could enable CPUs to be made cheaper by reducing lane counts in the die.
PCIE 5 would also allow proper bandwidth to the chipset, which we have never had before.
Also when multi-GPU cuts the lane count in half to each slot we would have plenty of bandwidth system.
 

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Expert pin bender
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Seriously come on people stop defending Intel already. Isn't it ironic on the forum where "pursuit of performance" you can find excuses about a faster newer specification is "useless". I see countless posts lambasting stuff like qlc nand drives, or [email protected] in favor of faster options, but pcie 4 or 5 is useless. Using this equation then why bother with DRR5 or whatever else right? No, it's simple you folks want to defend your beloved Intel.

Also, enjoy the crow of "Intel is skipping 4.0 pcie because it's useless and they are going to magically jump to 5.0 real soon!!" For fracking sakes, they can't even do 4.0 pcie or thunderbolt 3 right.
 

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Hey I get one of these!
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Getting a little tired of people saying/alluding to this so its time for a dose of reality. There is no way that PCI-E 5.0 is going to available anytime in the near future for the consumer. PCI-E 4.0 adds cost and complexity to a motherboard, etc and PCI-E 5.0 adds on top of that. Further the vast majority of consumers (including gamers) arent going to see the advantage of using a PCIE 4 system for some time (let alone a PCIE 5 system). I wouldnt be shocked if consumers were still running pcie 4.0 when the playstation 6 (yes 6) comes out.

AI, deep learning, crazy networking all see a benefit in switching to PCIE 5 for sure and they will when available but the consumer simply has no need for it for some time. Maybe HEDT systems will or they will simply have more PCIE 4 lanes

If im being short sighted ok i can except that. Give me a legitimate reason a consumer would need PCIE 5.0 anytime in the near future, and remember that im stressing consumer


Just because a newer faster spec is coming out soon doesnt mean it will be widely used. i mean PCIE 6.0 is being finalized in 2021 so i guess we should just wait huh?

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190618005945/en/PCI-SIG®-Announces-Upcoming-PCI-Express®-6.0-Specification
Zen 4, aka Ryzen 5000, will get 5nm, PCI-e 5.0, DDR5, and USB4 support along with moving on from AM4 to a new socket. It is, based on previous Ryzen launch history, about 18 months away.

I dunno what you consider to be near future, but 1.5 release cycles away is pretty near in my eyes.

That being said, what will actually make use of 5.0 besides SSDs, AMD's chipset, and AMD's GPUs? Dunno. Probably nothing for a while, same as 4.0 is now.
 

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Seems like intel relay on motherboards manufacturers to allow PCIE 4.0. I wonder why. Did AMD demanded they do it, while intel didn't or found out post design and they don't have time to come back to fix it?
Looks like a big oversight in design process if this is true.
But it could also be that in the future with firmware updates, some could give PCIE 4.0 on intel as well.
AMD invested in development of PCIE4 for their platform and non AMD solution is the one delayed.
Intel coming late to the party trying to squeeze it in and failing on their own chipsets.

Yes higher bandwidth always requires higher quality, better tracing, better shielding, lower noise, etc.
 
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