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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good day to you all.

It seems the time has come. When the g400s was announced, I bought a spare g400, but now I've burned through both of them. Brilliant mice, despite the somewhat short lifespan. Predictionless, no accel, and the sensor just feels great. It's the perfect mouse for me. But with how hard they are to get a hold of these days, it seems I have to cave in and buy a g400s. And after all, they're identical - or are they?

I don't care about the switches, the cable or the CPI steps. I play on 800 CPI, which is a native step on the g400s as well, as far as I've gathered. But what's this I hear about smoothing? Has there beyond any doubt been proven smoothing on the new SROM that wasn't there on the g400? And most importantly, would this kick in at the 800 CPI step? If it's exclusive to the high CPI tweaks that have been done, I don't mind.

Any input here is greatly appreciated, (as long as it's not "you probably won't notice" or "just buy the one you like the most!". This matters.)

-ph
 

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Somehow you have answered your question yourself already.
The 400s apparently has some smoothing, so if you are sensitive in that respect and this is a no go for you in general don't buy it.

However personally I would echo "you probably won't notice it".
 

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He's referring to the G400s not the G400 - the 4000 cpi rom used in the G400s is known for a certain amount of smoothing - in contrast to the 3600 cpi rom the G400 utilizes.
 

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I hear the G400s smoothing is more severe than the 3310. I remember feeling a strange latency to that mouse myself even before I switched to something else. Could never put my finger on it. I did own the G400s briefly before I said screw it I'm finding another shape because I've always hated that shape.
 

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I actually grew up using the MX518, so the shape has grown on me over the years.
The G400s itself felt fine for as long as I didn't have anything better to compare it against.

Since the 3310 mice are available though I immediately recognized those to feel in general...snappier.
When transitioning to my new daily driver I went back to the G400s occasionally and even for me who in general is not really sensitive to these kind of things it was quiet a noticeable difference.
 

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unfortunately logitech hasn't released a new mid range mouse since the g400s and we have no indication when they might release a new one. The g502 has a great sensor, but heavy scroll wheel and is over 20 grams heavier then the g400. Might be a good time to try another brand. mionix avior 7000 or naos 7000 would be obvious choices. Mionix has great built quality and they have good sensors as well and both of them are within 5 grams of the weight of the g400 you are used to.

Another option If you can find the receipt, i think there is a 3 year warranty, if you can get them to replace it, with a g400s for no charge, you lose nothing trying it, right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

what broke on the g400?
Very good question indeed.

Dunno how it is with the G400s but with the:
  • MX510
  • MX518
  • G400
Parts are interchangeable. If the main PCB still works and a button broke, you could buy a G400s with some skates, replace the main PCB with the one from the G400 et voila. No soldering either, the cables have a plug.
 

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g400 s dont have smoothing to me it was more accurate than my deathadder 2013 to me. use its native dpi settings with out the drivers. Native settings are 800 dpi/ 4000dpi
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorruptBE View Post

Very good question indeed.

Dunno how it is with the G400s but with the:
  • MX510
  • MX518
  • G400
Parts are interchangeable. If the main PCB still works and a button broke, you could buy a G400s with some skates, replace the main PCB with the one from the G400 et voila. No soldering either, the cables have a plug.
the main-PCB is unfortunatly soldered to the button-PCB since G400(it safes weight tho[and money for logitech
tongue.gif
]).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Amazing. So there really isn't a single mouse with a native 800 CPI step, currently in production, that isn't garbage.
 

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garbage is a bit strong. Like the g502's sensor is fantastic and has native 800 cpi step. Main downside is its 126g not including cable.

The 3310 mice have native 800 cpi step as well and while there is some very minor smoothing, i don't think its enough to call them garbage. Pretty sure even the g400 has some minor smoothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Logitech's design choice with the 502 was mind-boggling. I can't even attempt to fathom what they were thinking. I never expected something as ludicrous as that from them. The Rival is horrid, the M45 is for clawing, and the Mionixes are non-palmable and a clunky abomination, respectively. Also, as we now know, the 3310 has accel, at least in the Rival implementation. Jury is still out on the rest.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlare View Post

Logitech's design choice with the 502 was mind-boggling. I can't even attempt to fathom what they were thinking. I never expected something as ludicrous as that from them. The Rival is horrid, the M45 is for clawing, and the Mionixes are non-palmable and a clunky abomination, respectively. Also, as we now know, the 3310 has accel, at least in the Rival implementation. Jury is still out on the rest.
I and probably literally nobody else on this entire forum have absolutely any idea what you're looking for then. A non-palm, palm grip mouse?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

I and probably literally nobody else on this entire forum have absolutely any idea what you're looking for then. A non-palm, palm grip mouse?
A palm grip mouse. Not sure where you got non-palm from. Perhaps I was being unclear.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlare View Post

A palm grip mouse. Not sure where you got non-palm from. Perhaps I was being unclear.
The Rival IS a palm mouse, yet you classify it as useless. The Naos, also useless although one of the better palm mice. The G400, also palm. DA 2013, also palm.
 

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well, it seems like quite a few people are reporting that a recent software update has drastically improved the reactiveness of the 2013 deathadder. Its funny, a lot higher precent of people seem to detect the reduction of smoothing then were able to detect the presence of smoothing earlier. "what smoothing? there is no smoothing. smoothing doesn't really actually exist!" patch comes and the people using it because they're convinced there is no significant smoothing is like "omg, you can totally notice it is so much more reactive" and then i facepalm.

Then there is the g400s. and then Roccat should be releasing 2 new mice some time in Q3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

The Rival IS a palm mouse, yet you classify it as useless. The Naos, also useless although one of the better palm mice. The G400, also palm. DA 2013, also palm.
And the Rival is horrid. LMB and RMB touching each other when pressed simultaneously? Give me a break. People still don't seem to agree about the firmware either. Also, as we now know, it has accel. Naos is large and clunky, not suitable for twitch shooters/arena FPS, which is what I mainly play. G400 is what I use, and it's glorious. But it's not in production. I've heard conflicting things about the DA2013 lately, but it might be an (the only) option.
 
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