HELP: Radiator selection for evaporative cooling.

514 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by inedenimadam, Mar 24, 2014

inedenimadam

Discussion Starter · Mar 23, 2014

I have toyed around with the idea of a "Bong" style cooler, but the fact that it permits foreign debris from the air into the loop has kept me from opening my wallet to buy the parts. What I have decided to do instead, is use the same evaporative cooling principal and apply it to the fins of a radiator. The hold up at the moment is radiator selection. I need to know what type of radiator will not rust/erode with water on the fins. I imagine that something like tin would make for horrible rust issues, but something like a 100% copper would not rust, but may oxidize. Is stainless steel an option? Should I be looking at radiators designed for something other than computers?

Help: point me at a radiator that wont deteriorate with high moisture content on the outside of the rad!!!!!

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billbartuska

· #2 · Mar 23, 2014

Perhaps if you could give an idea of exactly how you plan on using this rad you'd get better answers.

Spray water into it?
Submerge it in the cool water from the bong?
?????

Perhaps a sketch?

inedenimadam

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 23, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbartuska

Perhaps if you could give an idea of exactly how you plan on using this rad you'd get better answers.

Spray water into it?
Submerge it in the cool water from the bong?
?????

Perhaps a sketch?

Thanks for the interest and reply.

Custom insulated tank (I am thinking L-240mm x W-360mm x H-240mm internal for rads)1/2 filled with water, fan pushed air enters through ports on 2 sides. radiator with same dimensions as footprint of insulated tank is mounted above the air ports. Series of copper or cpvc pipes with cheap fuel line injectors is mounted above the radiator. Lid has a short (6" or so) vent stack for heat/moisture to leave. The radiator will have ports (quick connects) to attach to CPU/GPU loop. Secondary pump will pull water from the bottom of the tank and push it back through the copper pipes/injection ports. Also considering installing a ~ gallon tank on the top so I can monitor/fill without pulling the lid off.

While the radiator will not be submerged, it will be saturated by water 24/7 from the injection ports. From what I know about industrial evaporation units, which is not much, the more surface area you are able to push water+air over, the more you cool.

I am attempting to improve three things that have put me off of a "bong" build at this point: 1.Increase overall surface area. 2.Keep foreign materials out of the main CPU/GPU loop. 3.Decrease overall footprint.

I would like to just pick up a couple 360x120 fat boy radiators, but I dont know if something like EK XTX 360s would have fins rusting/oxidizing from being wet 24/7.

Sorry I dont have a sketch. I will probably draw one up after I have a gist of what my options for radiators are.

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billbartuska

· #4 · Mar 24, 2014

You haven't really thought this out.

Automotive fuel injectors won't work, at least without spending a lot of money on a pump and controls.

Why do you need a rad in the first place?

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Ultra-m-a-n

· #5 · Mar 24, 2014

what about a cheap pump and spray bottle atomizers? he spray bottles from hair spray and stuff are cheap, throw out a nice mist that can be placed right above the rad in the first config. hooked up to a pump with enough head pressure im sure this could work.

Demondrumer

· #6 · Mar 24, 2014

2

I dont know much about this.... But when i was helping a friend build a RC turbin we used the heads from Paint sprayers like they use in paint shops. The nozzels would do the trick, all you need to do really is build enough pressure for them to work properly!!

I really like the idea though! i shall keep a close eye on this thread.

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Ultra-m-a-n

· #7 · Mar 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demondrumer

I dont know much about this.... But when i was helping a friend build a RC turbin we used the heads from Paint sprayers like they use in paint shops. The nozzels would do the trick, all you need to do really is build enough pressure for them to work properly!!

I really like the idea though! i shall keep a close eye on this thread.

thats a good idea, but might require substantial pressure to atomize the water fully!

hahaha that would be cool though!

Demondrumer

· #8 · Mar 24, 2014

It would be interesting to see!! i imagin it would be a loud setup! but nonetheless build this thing!!

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billbartuska

· #9 · Mar 24, 2014

Hair spray cans have about 40 psi. 40 psi pump = $$$$

boredmug

· #10 · Mar 24, 2014

You could possibly use an in tank full pump for a car? Puts out plenty of pressure..

Ultra-m-a-n

· #11 · Mar 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbartuska

Hair spray cans have about 40 psi. 40 psi pump = $$$$

i meant pump bottles

not aerosol

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inedenimadam

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbartuska

You haven't really thought this out.

Automotive fuel injectors won't work, at least without spending a lot of money on a pump and controls.

Why do you need a rad in the first place?

Because plan A increases the cooling surface area, much like layering mesh in the tube of the "bong" style, it allows the water to slow down and stay unpooled longer. Plan B, without a permeable membrane, doesnt really leave the water in the air long.

I was not thinking "automotive" as much as I was some of the brass fuel spray nozzles I have played with when rebuilding lawnmowers/pressure washers as a summer job in high school. Greenhouse misting nozzles have a vastly greater selection in low pressure-high flow options, and are already designed for water, I might be able to find something more appropriate there. I am not looking for a ultra fine mist, as it would cause the fans to push a portion of the mist out before it had an opportunity to hit the rad. But PSI will be as big of a factor if not larger than GPH when selecting a pump.

Still need to figure out a rad that wont break down over time...

Thanks for the mock up, and the interest. Having other like minded brains to pick, helps bring ideas to reality quicker.

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threephi

· #13 · Mar 24, 2014

What you really want is something like Plan B, but use a heat exchanger instead of the pipe coil.

Your original plan where the evaporative loop coolant dribbles through the primary loop radiator seems quite inefficient. FWIW the radiator isn't the cooling surface, the water mist itself as it interacts with open air is. That's why bongs are so big, they need that volume of space to let enough water evaporate to take enough heat away. I think it's a good idea to try to spread out the mist horizontally instead of vertically, but 240x360x240 seems far too small to be very effective.

billbartuska

· #14 · Mar 24, 2014

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inedenimadam

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by threephi

What you really want is something like Plan B, but use a heat exchanger instead of the pipe coil.

Your original plan where the evaporative loop coolant dribbles through the primary loop radiator seems quite inefficient. FWIW the radiator isn't the cooling surface, the water mist itself as it interacts with open air is. That's why bongs are so big, they need that volume of space to let enough water evaporate to take enough heat away. I think it's a good idea to try to spread out the mist horizontally instead of vertically, but 240x360x240 seems far too small to be very effective.

with no radiator, you are correct, horribly small and inefficient. The idea of the radiator is to slow the water down, so more water/mist stays un pooled and interacts with the air longer.

As much as I appreciate the thoughts on the project guys...I still dont have an answer to my question:

Which type of radiator wont rust/oxidize when wet?

pc-illiterate

· #16 · Mar 24, 2014

you wont find a radiator that wont deteriorate. they are all soldered with tin solder. your best bet is plan c. this isnt a new idea per say. its a mish mash of ideas.
closed loop in a chiller box and using a bong/ventolini (is that the right word?) to cool water at or below ambient.

as i said, plan would be best. it would lead to the least amount of corrosion.

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inedenimadam

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 24, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc-illiterate

you wont find a radiator that wont deteriorate.

Thank you
+1
Back to the drawing board
Maybe a fin array like industrial evaporation cooling installations but not a rad. If I do know one thing about evaporation, the more of it that is vapor, the more effective the cooling.

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