Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hello,

so i got my self an Edifier S730 2.1 speakers 2 weeks ago and mainly i use them for gaming and some movies occasionally, im really so happy with its performance, while its sound quality is not exactly bose-like but its near and certainly incredible relative to its cost and its bass is more than enough to shake my small room and thats the best part XD

now my neighbor got himself a sony home theater audio system and we are trying to challenge whos got stronger bass XD, so i ran a couple of bass tests (from youtube) with the volume maxxed out, and the subwoofer and bass maxxed out too in the speakers control panel, moreover i got soundblaster Zx sound card and i maxxed out the bass boost through the driver too XD, we ran tests for around 15-20 mins maybe.

what are the chances i damaged or could damage my subwoofer? to be honest the bass was booming and the room was shaking like crazy so i couldnt hear if there was any distortion but by touching the subwoofer back it was very hot to the touch

we are about to redo the tests again today so if there is any risk of damaging the subwoofer im sure i dont wanna do it so kindly advice

i read somewhere that subwoofers that comes with built in amplifiers (like edifier s730) will never damage itself as the amplifier will have a protection mode to not send more current to the subwoofer than it can handle? is that true? does that still apply when im using an audio card like sound blaster Zx and using bass boost in the driver to the max?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SsXxX View Post

i read somewhere that subwoofers that comes with built in amplifiers (like edifier s730) will never damage itself as the amplifier will have a protection mode to not send more current to the subwoofer than it can handle? is that true? does that still apply when im using an audio card like sound blaster Zx and using bass boost in the driver to the max?
anyone? i just need somebody with some audio experience to confirm or deny the above statement plz
rolleyes.gif
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Sounds like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near higher end audio equipment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post

Sounds like you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near higher end audio equipment.
your point?!

sorry im not smart enough to get it
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Well, to be fair to your Edifier set, they were expensive. It's 150w RMS @ 8ohm with 10% THD. Yes, that'll kill your subwoofer. Distortion kills, and usually with subwoofers you can't hear it. If you can hear it, its too late. The fact that your amplifier was getting hot, that means you were clipping your sub to death. You could have already done damage to the coil.

If you're wanting to have competitions with your neighbor, I think you're going about it the wrong way with "PC Speakers" or "Gaming Speakers". But that's my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
i know all about distortion and its effect on subwoofers and how harmful it is, if you read the statement i said is that im not using an after market amplifier as the s730 has built in amplifier and the system is connected directly to my PC sound card (soundbalster z) so this is what i wanna confirm; will the built in amp has protection so that it will not drive the sub to above safe limits even if u maxxed out out the volume through your pc and s730 control panel or not?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SsXxX View Post

i know all about distortion and its effect on subwoofers and how harmful it is, if you read the statement i said is that im not using an after market amplifier as the s730 has built in amplifier and the system is connected directly to my PC sound card (soundbalster z) so this is what i wanna confirm; will the built in amp has protection so that it will not drive the sub to above safe limits even if u maxxed out out the volume through your pc and s730 control panel or not?
Doesn't matter what company makes the speakers and amp. It is NEVER safe to max out all volumes, max out bass boosts, and clip your system to death. Look up "Logitech blown subwoofer" on google (I'm picking on Logitech simply because they're so popular). Your sub amp pushes 150w RMS @ 8ohm 10% THD. 10% THD is exceedingly dangerous, I don't even like 1% THD. Your sub driver itself, can probably handle 150w RMS, I've never personally owned that set. However the distortion is what's going to kill it.

Edifier, being a respected name, probably does have the driver properly matched with the amp, yes. That 10% THD that they claim on their website, WILL kill your sub. If you want to be sure what's safe and what's not, you need an oscope to find out if you're clipping or not. Chances are, you probably are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
okay i got the point, then this bass challenge we are planing to do shouldnt be safe so im better to not do it, as for clipping and distortion when we was testing yesterday im not sure if there was any or not as the bass was too high to the degree that many stuff in my room was shaking for any distortion if any to be audible, and while yes we did the test for around 15 mins but the volume was maxxed to 100% not more than 30 seconds at a time and most of test was done on 70-80% volume, i guess im lucky then to have not blown my sub then, but i was worried if i could have affected the coil negatively so that the subs sound quality or volume sensitivity got affected in the long run
redface.gif
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SsXxX View Post

okay i got the point, then this bass challenge we are planing to do shouldnt be safe so im better to not do it, as for clipping and distortion when we was testing yesterday im not sure if there was any or not as the bass was too high to the degree that many stuff in my room was shaking for any distortion if any to be audible, and while yes we did the test for around 15 mins but the volume was maxxed to 100% not more than 30 seconds at a time and most of test was done on 70-80% volume, i guess im lucky then to have not blown my sub then, but i was worried if i could have affected the coil negatively so that the subs sound quality or volume sensitivity got affected in the long run
redface.gif
You can't always hear subwoofer clipping. My car system (subs are subs and amps are amps) has a clip meter built into it. By ear, I can turn my system up full blast 40/40 on my volume knob, and it sounds crystal clean, but after like a minute, my subs start smelling of burnt coil. Look down at my clip meter, its going crazy........ figured out I clip at volume 33 / 40, which is a huge difference. Wasn't anywhere near as loud, but I'm also no longer damaging my equipment.

For a very short burst, clipping and distortion should be okay. That's how pro's with car audio get huge numbers. I cannot gaurantee you won't kill anything, but if its a short enough "burp", you chances are you'll be fine. I still do my demos at volume 40/40 for about 1.5 minutes or so, with breaks in between.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post

You can't always hear subwoofer clipping. My car system (subs are subs and amps are amps) has a clip meter built into it. By ear, I can turn my system up full blast 40/40 on my volume knob, and it sounds crystal clean, but after like a minute, my subs start smelling of burnt coil. Look down at my clip meter, its going crazy........ figured out I clip at volume 33 / 40, which is a huge difference. Wasn't anywhere near as loud, but I'm also no longer damaging my equipment.

For a very short burst, clipping and distortion should be okay. That's how pro's with car audio get huge numbers. I cannot gaurantee you won't kill anything, but if its a short enough "burp", you chances are you'll be fine. I still do my demos at volume 40/40 for about 1.5 minutes or so, with breaks in between.
u seem to be very experienced in audio and speakers, i cant say the same for me
biggrin.gif


saying that, i would like to ask, whats exactly the bass boost feature in the soundblaster z driver and ohw does it work? and any risks of damage with it? i mean i understand its software but how does it do it? while some dont like it but i certainly do as it makes bass a lot deeper specially in games, i mean u know the kind of bass that u barely hear but feel with your body, i feel this feature enhances this kind of bass and makes it more powerful
smile.gif
 

·
VROOM VROOM
Joined
·
6,055 Posts
honestly its a prepackaged audio setup, so not much point in having a "competition".
pioneer is 100% right, nearly every system will be able to kill itself at max volume, even more so when using bass boost.

my pioneer floor speakers blow most pc sets out of the water, and have those limited to about 70% of the receiver max volume.
I wouldn't risk blowing them up, not worth it just to be cool imo.

ps: bass boost just cranks the low frequency response in the EQ to make the bass louder.
it kills what the bass is suppose to sound like and is really to make up for a weak sub
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasherht View Post

honestly its a prepackaged audio setup, so not much point in having a "competition".
pioneer is 100% right, nearly every system will be able to kill itself at max volume, even more so when using bass boost.

my pioneer floor speakers blow most pc sets out of the water, and have those limited to about 70% of the receiver max volume.
I wouldn't risk blowing them up, not worth it just to be cool imo.
i know its a packaged system but the point is i paid half what he paid for his Sony home theater and i think my edifier s730 sound the same if not better in terms of sound quality and most importantly im certain my edifier gives deeper and more powerful bass
biggrin.gif


and as its a packaged system i thought it should be safe to maximize the volume without risk, but it appears not so, good to know before i blow anything up lol
rolleyes.gif
 

·
VROOM VROOM
Joined
·
6,055 Posts
Thats because most home theater systems from sony suck.
I have 2 Sony book shelf speakers rated for 120watts a piece, and they don't hold a candle to my pioneer floor speakers rated for the same wattage.

my two speakers by themselves provide just as much punch as most prepackaged "theater" kits. so it doesn't take a lot to out do a home theater kit when it comes to bass.

If you want to truly understand what real bass is, find a local home theater shop and check out their demo room.
And i mean real theater shop, not best buy or other big box store.

The bass you FEEL, you mentioned before will take on a whole new meaning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasherht View Post

Thats because most home theater systems from sony suck.
I have 2 Sony book shelf speakers rated for 120watts a piece, and they don't hold a candle to my pioneer floor speakers rated for the same wattage.

my two speakers by themselves provide just as much punch as most prepackaged "theater" kits. so it doesn't take a lot to out do a home theater kit when it comes to bass.

If you want to truly understand what real bass is, find a local home theater shop and check out their demo room.
And i mean real theater shop, not best buy or other big box store.

The bass you FEEL, you mentioned before will take on a whole new meaning.
i know bro and i do love bass specially the bass u FEEL
thumb.gif


but im satisfied with my edifier s730 as i mainly use it for gaming, beside my room is small, barely 20 sequre meters so the s730 is doing the job of shaking my shelfs very well
biggrin.gif
 

·
Overclock Failed...
Joined
·
13,565 Posts
This has been an interesting thread to follow.

OP, I think you're confusing louder base with lower base.



As for distortion killing you speaker, instead of the speaker cone moving smoothly in and out, the original wave combined with the distortion makes it try to move jerkey. As the amp has to supply the current to produce all those small movements too it heats up (and eventually smokes) the voice coil.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,853 Posts
if you have some money to blow and tools to make your own sub. i haven't bought speakers from the store in over 10 years. same with amps. all the ones i make are clear and loud.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

This has been an interesting thread to follow.

OP, I think you're confusing louder base with lower base.



As for distortion killing you speaker, instead of the speaker cone moving smoothly in and out, the original wave combined with the distortion makes it try to move jerkey. As the amp has to supply the current to produce all those small movements too it heats up (and eventually smokes) the voice coil.

I was more reffering to clipping myself, which looks like this:


Having the cone stuck out or in like a clipped signal would do, even for a brief moment, causes extra heat. Heat will burn up the coil(s). Your very first image of "base wave" is a beautiful example of how the signal going to your sub SHOULD look like though.

By having volume maxed, gains maxed, and bass boosts all maxed, your sending a clipped signal out.
 

·
Overclock Failed...
Joined
·
13,565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post

By having volume maxed, gains maxed, and bass boosts all maxed, your sending a clipped signal out.
A clipped and distorted signal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
thats cool
tongue.gif


what i been told, is infact, it can be good for a fresh speaker to get a good " kick in the ass to say it" from day 1

i spoken with people that run mobile disco ect, and normaly, with new speakers.. they just " blow them up " with one of the big RMS mono amps
wink.gif
why? because its healthy and make the speaker sound good. i seen dali speakers burst out smoke and fire, and they just got turned off for 15 mins to cool down, and they played amazing as soon they got fired up again
wink.gif
no problem...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,930 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetoor85 View Post

thats cool
tongue.gif


what i been told, is infact, it can be good for a fresh speaker to get a good " kick in the ass to say it" from day 1

i spoken with people that run mobile disco ect, and normaly, with new speakers.. they just " blow them up " with one of the big RMS mono amps
wink.gif
why? because its healthy and make the speaker sound good. i seen dali speakers burst out smoke and fire, and they just got turned off for 15 mins to cool down, and they played amazing as soon they got fired up again
wink.gif
no problem...
Ummm, no. Well..........yes and no, kinda. I have three 10's off 3000w RMS in my SUV currently. I'm breaking the subs in by playing 20-30Hz rebassed music at about half volume, which is pretty much the industry standard for breaking in competition subs (for cars anyway). Making speakers or subs burst out smoke and fire......that is NOT a good thing. Heat is NOT how you break in speakers, you break them in by wearing in their soft parts, and by doing that is constant repetitive motion (20Hz or so) at a low volume, and a non clipped signal. All heat does is damage coils. Too much clean power turns coils into slinkies.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top