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Linux > All
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Discussion Starter #1
Was doing a fresh windows install on a computer I got for my wife. What a nightmare. took me awhile to get the iso on a flash drive, dd didn't work. Took awhile for it to install itself. I distracted myself by working on some remodelling. Then took most of the afternoon and evening to download a 3gb update, all the while it wouldn't let me setup or configure anything until it was done. Doesn't sound bad except I'm on a 5mb connection at my home. Chasing down product keys...

All in all not an experience I want to repeat. I reinstall my laptop just for the hell of it sometimes, takes me a total of 15 minutes each time. We have it so easy, and windows users don't even know how difficult Microsoft makes things. It's kind of sad.
 

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Was doing a fresh windows install on a computer I got for my wife. What a nightmare. took me awhile to get the iso on a flash drive, dd didn't work. Took awhile for it to install itself. I distracted myself by working on some remodelling. Then took most of the afternoon and evening to download a 3gb update, all the while it wouldn't let me setup or configure anything until it was done. Doesn't sound bad except I'm on a 5mb connection at my home. Chasing down product keys...

All in all not an experience I want to repeat. I reinstall my laptop just for the hell of it sometimes, takes me a total of 15 minutes each time. We have it so easy, and windows users don't even know how difficult Microsoft makes things. It's kind of sad.
While I can't do it in 15min I can have my computer back up and running with all my apps and games in a 2hrs or less. Quicker if I just restore an image but I rarely ever do that cuase I always seem to make them at the wrong time hah. I wish the two systems had more gaming parody as I enjoyed the couple times I messed with it just got tired of switching back to game.
 

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The only version of windows that is a pain to put on a USB is Windows XP. Even Windows 7 had a simple easy to use microsoft utility just for their ISO. Takes only a couple of minuets if you have a decently fast USB drive.

Windows 10 only takes a good 15-20min to install... And Windows 7 maybe at worst 30min...
Well Unless you are installing on a dead slow HDD. But why would anyone in the tech world install a OS on a HDD...


Honestly last time I installed windows 10 it was on a Machine with a new M2 SSD. Took only around 10min to get to the desktop. Not as quick as a ubuntu install, but then again windows 10 ends up taking up around 11-15gb of space.


As for updates, windows 7 doesn't need them out of the box. Windows 10 is a cry baby, and will start downloading them in the background without you knowing. Always best to just get the newest version before putting it on a USB. That way you don't have to do a major update, which pretty much acts like a windows upgrade.



I love my Linux! Long time SUSE user, and huge fan of pretty much anything debian. While it does have its advantages. Windows is stupid easy to fix when something goes wrong, Supports pretty much all software, and windows 10 is super quick and for the most part light on RAM.


I do see MS Making Windows NT into some type of NT/Linux Hybrid in the future. As windows gets more dated and dated in areas.


I actually think MS makes it pretty easy to install windows, it is pretty straight forward. Not much to get confused on. No harder than a ubuntu install...
Not all Linux distros are equal, some are no where near as easy to install. Hell getting ESXI installed onto the server at work as no simple "click a few buttons and done" task.

Plus all new machines have the windows key built right into the bios, and windows will automatically pull it.


So simply put, Widows update sucks!!!
 

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Linux > All
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Discussion Starter #4
Maybe 15 minutes is off but still. No where close to the time involved for a Windows installation. Should say I also have an apt-caching server on my lan so updates and software for my debian / ubuntu systems is usually already cached locally. Speeds it up nicely.

This computer doesn't have an SSD right now. Bit tight finances at the moment so just using the hdd it came with.

I had just forgotten how much effort Windows it, or time involved to get to a usable desktop with all the apps. Playing with it off and on I'm still downloading apps and stuff for my wife to use, been at it all morning. I love package managers and repositories. Afraid to trust this stuff I'm putting on her computer.
 

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Maybe 15 minutes is off but still. No where close to the time involved for a Windows installation. Should say I also have an apt-caching server on my lan so updates and software for my debian / ubuntu systems is usually already cached locally. Speeds it up nicely.

This computer doesn't have an SSD right now. Bit tight finances at the moment so just using the hdd it came with.

I had just forgotten how much effort Windows it, or time involved to get to a usable desktop with all the apps. Playing with it off and on I'm still downloading apps and stuff for my wife to use, been at it all morning. I love package managers and repositories. Afraid to trust this stuff I'm putting on her computer.
I will say this...

I do with I just could sudo apt-get install blah... on windows.

For Me Getting to the desktop on a new install was never a pain. The Updates upon Updates and gettings all the apps loaded on is time consuming.
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
Disconnect from the internet is still the fastest way to install 10.
 

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Well , count me out for Arch. I'm not a power user on Arch (far from it) but I managed to break the OS completely previously much more than I ever managed on Debian or Fedora. One Arch VM was completely unusable and I had to roll it back.

Linux is the fastest to install and/or use but the rolling distros still break things.

Windows 7 is alright if you can slipstream the updates (it's still a slow OS), but Windows 8.1 and 10 are ridiculous as they force updates (including unwanted driver updates) and reboot whenever they want. I believe Windows 10 LTSB and Enterprise have the advantage to control the OS more than the Home and Pro versions though.

The main barrier to Linux adoption besides games (which generally rely on DX11/DX12) is actually using proprietary programs such as Adobe programs , Autodesk programs using DirectX (i.e. Inventor) , Bentley Microstation, Solidworks, ProE / Creo, Zbrush, Rhino, 3dsmax, minitab, Spaceclaim, Altium designer, Cadence Orcad, etc.

CATIA , ArcGIS, Siemens NX, Maya, MATLAB, Mathematica, Labview, Mudbox, Openfoam, Flotherm, & ANSYS work in Linux though.
 

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Just sharing my personal experience with the Win10 installation process. I have a USB drive dedicated to the Win10 installer just in case I need it, so I'm usually ready to go in that regard. I keep this stick on the most recent build available for the USB installer, so I usually have less than a gigabyte of updates to download. I'm also on gigabit fiber so very little wait time in that regard. I have all of my media and application installers on a secondary drive, and all games installed to a tertiary drive. If I were to have to wipe the OS drive and install Win10 again, my total downtime is usually under 20 minutes to be back up and running with all of my preferred media and web browsing applications, and usually another 10 minutes just to get all of my game clients signed in and a couple of other tools installed. My entire workflow is pretty much optimized such that I can wipe the OS drive on a moments notice with very little if any data that needs to be transferred.

I'm sure my situation is rare, but under ideal circumstances Win10 can be installed ready to go in very little time by my standards. I sympathize in regards to your internet bandwidth though. Modern services are all getting so "connected" that anybody who doesn't have LAN-esque internet speeds get shafted with a gimped experience.
 

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Gamer
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My Win10 LTSB install from start to finish is around 20 minutes. My Arch install is about an hour but those two are like comparing apples and oranges. Both are on SSD's. These times are just install, not downloading the OS.
 

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Who needs desktops when you can cli.

Okay some one had to be the leetist to say it :)

windows usb tool fails more times then not for me. I have to us rufus to get it to work. Windows really should incorporate a live install setup. Let us at least use a browser or mine sweeper or something.
 

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New001
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windows usb tool fails more times then not for me. I have to us rufus to get it to work. Windows really should incorporate a live install setup. Let us at least use a browser or mine sweeper or something.
Yeah rufus is the best, always my go to for Windows Install USBs
 

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Iconoclast
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Chasing down product keys...
Product keys are annoying, but the activation process itself is worse if you are a tweaker/power user. I can't count the number of times I've had to call Microsoft to manually reactivate Windows after a few hardware (or in some cases, firmware) changes.

As for updates, windows 7 doesn't need them out of the box.
The security and platform updates are pretty important.

I actually think MS makes it pretty easy to install windows, it is pretty straight forward. Not much to get confused on. No harder than a ubuntu install...
The initial install is only a fraction of what's required to get Windows into a reasonably well configured state.

I have ten times the experience with Windows as I do with Linux and it takes vastly longer for me to get almost any version of Windows working how I want it to work than it does for almost any of the Linux distros that prioritize ease of use. OS updates, drivers, and software all generally take much longer on Windows.
 

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Linux > All
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Discussion Starter #14
Product keys are annoying, but the activation process itself is worse if you are a tweaker/power user. I can't count the number of times I've had to call Microsoft to manually reactivate Windows after a few hardware (or in some cases, firmware) changes
I actually found the limit. I had bought a retail Windows 8 Pro awhile back. Constantly screwing about I got to the point where they refused to activate it, even with me calling them. They told me to call best buy about it, best buy told me to call Microsoft about it. Pass the buck. All I ended up with was a useless disk. Is what put me off Windows for good. Even retail packages have limits. Which was the supposed reason I bought retail instead of oem in the first place... no limits.
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
If you end up with a 10 with no key it's best to associate it with a MS account briefly just to be on the record
Then just switch back to a local user account
But yeah it's pain without a key to use and even then it may be hit or miss :)

I think I was on 4.7 and it borked and deactivated lol = new hardware blah.... :D
Restored a system image and all back to crappy 10 normal.
 

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Product keys are annoying, but the activation process itself is worse if you are a tweaker/power user. I can't count the number of times I've had to call Microsoft to manually reactivate Windows after a few hardware (or in some cases, firmware) changes.



The security and platform updates are pretty important.



The initial install is only a fraction of what's required to get Windows into a reasonably well configured state.

I have ten times the experience with Windows as I do with Linux and it takes vastly longer for me to get almost any version of Windows working how I want it to work than it does for almost any of the Linux distros that prioritize ease of use. OS updates, drivers, and software all generally take much longer on Windows.
I would agree, i can go from putting the linux usb into the usb to a fully usable system (i'm a software developer) in about 30 to 40 minutes on linux, but for windows 10, installing the same apps and getting all the updates, i am looking at least a 3 or 4 hour ordeal of installing and configuring. so it might take windows less time to install (i think i timed it once, it takes ubuntu about 8 minutes to install and get to desktop, where it takes windows at least 20 to 30 on the same hardware), but it def takes less time to make linux usable :)
 

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I used to say the same thing about Windows taking forever to go from the beginning of the installation to a working state. However, due to the difficulties compared to several Linux distros, I have converted my entire house to fedora or slackware. I have scripts to log application states at regular intervals and to backup all configurations and user files. Now my fresh installations of Linux involve the base install and running a script such generally takes ~15 minutes.

FYI.. I have not used Windows enough at home to justify a reinstall since Windows XP.


I have not posted on this forum in 10+ years, so I wonder who will recognize this user.
 

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The thing is even if Windows was faster to install, the amount of baby-sitting and manual installation of programs required is really annoying / frustrating. Unless your entire program library consists of games on Steam or some other program manager which will auto-download everything, the amount of dialog boxes and installers is just insane (Accept / Next / OK boxes along with any options). The vast majority of apps don't have portable app status (such as hwinfo , CPU-Z , GPU-Z which don't require installation to operate).


All drivers need to be installed as well.



With Linux you can just update everything from package manager provided you put the sources in the repositories properly. The usability has increased greatly such that as long as software is in repos it is as easy if not easier than Windows to install. With command line you can install everything effortlessly to the same extent as the package managers. When you update things as long as its not a fully rolling distro you actually will have pre-tested software with a log of what changed.


If the goal is just to read/write documents LibreOffice and evince pdf viewer are preinstalled in a number of distros as well as Firefox , GIMP, + VLC.
 

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Isn't installing Windows in UEFI and not legacy mode somewhat convoluted?
 
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