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Some call me... Bifford
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have seen a few questions on how the new Infraction System works so I thought I would touch on a few key aspects.

Here is a sample of what a member will see in their "My profile" on the Infraction page:

infraction.png
*Note* The above is a dummy account and is not a representation of an actual active member.

Lets examine a few of the key pieces here:

The most important aspect of the system is at the bottom left of the above screenshot. In this example the member has 5 points. If the member reaches 20 points a ban would be enforced. Now lets look at the individual items. At first glance you may notice that there are Red and Yellow "cards" next to each item. For those of you familiar with soccer/football the yellow and red cards are not new. A yellow card represents a warning and DOES NOT affect your total point count. A warning carries no expiration or points, it is simply a reminder of the rules. A red card is an infraction and DOES add to your total Point count. There are also dates representing how long the infraction will be active. Let's take a look at the infraction listed above. It shows that a "Rude/Disrespectful post" will only be active for 30 days. This means that at the end of 30 days the user's point total will go back down to zero.

You may also take note of the Warning/Infraction counter at the top centre of the above screenshot, this a simple breakdown of the Warnings/Infraction received over a given period of time (30 Days, 6months, 1 year, All time). This will also help you monitor your Warnings/Infraction in an effort to avoid previous mistakes.

One question that comes up often is: Why do the warnings (that carry no "point" value) remain in my profile? Consequently an expired Infraction will not disappear either. These items remain in the user's profile to help other Staff decide how to handle certain situations. They also help remind the member that there may be a certain area of behaviour that needs to be kept in check. The member above is also reminded every time he/she looks at their profile page that they must watch their conduct on the forums.

On top of the basic Infractions/Warnings, we implemented a new policy that is designed to weed out members who have demonstrated no desire to follow the rules - this policy works as follows: If during your membership here you accrue more then 10 infractions, your account will be banned. Please not that this policy does not include Warnings, and they are not counted towards your "10" Infraction limit. This does seem like a low number, however, it is rare that members approach this number without first finding themselves in other more serious issues, and it was determined that only a very small percentage of our members are even at risk of finding themselves subject to this policy.

Let's take a look at some of the more serious Infractions:

Trolling (4pts / 90 Days): When a member posts in a thread or creates a thread just to cause trouble will receive this Warning/Infraction.

For Sale Bashing (5 pts / 30 Days): If a member is selling an item please refrain from negative comments. If you have a question about the item, please PM the seller.

Software Piracy (5 pts / 30 Days): Anytime that a member discussing acquiring software illegally or even admits to using pirated software this Warning/Infraction may be used. We take piracy seriously; after all we are protecting you by preventing you from posting material that would incriminate yourselves.

Rude / Disrespectful Post (5pts / 30 Days): Anytime that you insult another member or make ugly comments this Infraction can (and usually will) be used. Most of these infraction stem from reports of the post by the person that was offended. While not every post that gets reported will receive an Infraction they *ALL* get looked at. Members who have received this type of infraction or warning in the past are looked at more critically as they have already been warned.

This is a small snippet of the list and is not exhaustive.

Warnings/Infractions are not for public discussion:

Warnings/Infractions that you receive are not for public discussion on the open forums. They are only to discussed with the Staff member that issued it or other Forum Moderators/Senior Moderators if the issuing member of Staff is not available. Please be aware that discussing Warnings/Infractions can be met with a Warning or Infraction depending on the severity/occurrence of the event.

............................................................................................................................................................................

The key point that I want to get across is to not overreact if you receive a Warning or Infraction. They are just here so that you act more carefully in the future. If you wish to contact a member of Staff with regards to Warnings/Infractions, please do so calmly and they will be more than happy to clear things up.
 

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Some call me... Bifford
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Recently I had a conversation with one of our members regarding the validity of a warning. This conversation brought up two points.
  1. If you are getting worked up over a warning, you need to revisit the first part of this thread. A warning is nothing so serious as to cause a great deal of panic or stress. I state this again to imply a great deal of importance. Warnings help to remind you of a rule that was broken. Perhaps you didn't even know a rule was being broken, so the warning lets you know.
  2. All infractions and warnings are made public to the director team. In fact every warning or infraction has it's own thread in the director forum. Often these threads are used to modify the warning or infraction. Sometimes they are reversed and sometimes the warning or infraction is upgraded to something more serious. So this means that more than one person has a chance to comment on each warning/infraction.
The main point is that we are a TEAM of directors; none of us act completely on our own. While we make individual choices we discuss those choices with the rest of the team. No one should ever feel that they are being singled out. We do not have the time to discuss each warning or infraction. So, if you feel that something has gone awry please feel free to bring up a discussion. The Community Directors are here to help resolve these kinds of issues (among others). Contact one of the CDs to bring up an issue with an infraction via PM. Infractions/warnings are private matters and should be discussed privately.
 

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I'm pleased to see things like "trolling" are being addressed. Deliberately inflammatory posts/threads really do the forum community no good at all. I have to ask though; are the infractions/warnings based solely on the TOS, or are they based on something else also/entirely?

I only ask because it's hard to avoid breaking the rules, if you don't know what they are and if the infraction/warning system is based on something other than the TOS, folks will inevitably make mistakes without knowing it.

I'd like to see a comprehensive list of infractions that people can read and absorb. That way people will make fewer mistakes and infractions/warnings may feel more justified and less arbitrary if they're given. I don't mind being warned or given an infraction if I've done something wrong and I knew I was doing something wrong when I did it, but I'd feel a bit annoyed if I was penalised for doing something that I didn't know was wrong. A fully comprehensive litany of infractions, similar to the four shown in the first post of this thread would be extremely helpful, if indeed these infractions are not clear from reading the TOS.

Highly-Annoyed
 

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The vast majority of the infractions and warnings are simply common sense. If you treat other members with respect, stay on topic in threads, and your posts are reasonably well written, the chances are that this thread is all of the contact you'll ever have with the infraction system.

The TOS is the governing set of rules for the site, and there are supplemental rules in such section as the For Sale section that address specific issues in that forum.

It's important to remember that "warning" is equivalent to "rule reminder", and getting one is not the end of the world. It's equivalent to a Director sending you a PM to alert you to a rule issue. Warnings open the door to infractions, however, so they do deserve attention and revisiting the rules. Infractions may be given without prior warnings if the offense warrants it. These cases always involve a blatant disregard for obvious rules, and any time a member cites a rules as they're breaking it, an infraction will follow.
 

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They still sit in your profile as a evil "reminder" permanently yet not being active when the 20-point stuff goes checking.

*EDIT*

Directed a D3DAiM
 
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Quote:
Infractions/warnings are private matters and should be discussed privately.
That's a very important point IMO.

Quote:
The vast majority of the infractions and warnings are simply common sense.
Too true...

This is a G-rated forum. Imagine your post is about to be read aloud to a group of 8th graders...very intelligent 8th graders...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberDruid View Post
That's a very important point IMO.

Too true...

This is a G-rated forum. Imagine your post is about to be read aloud to a group of 8th graders...very intelligent 8th graders...
I thought this was PG-13
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aweir View Post
Is there a list of all the infractions? Is it an infraction to ask about infractions?
As for the list of all infractions. We have listed the important ones above. We have several others as well. We also have a custom infractions that is why don't create a list of all of the infractions.

If you are talking about asking about why you received an infraction it is not against the rules to ask us about it. However it has to stay private. Please PM a director and they will look into your infraction. If you ask why you got an infraction in the open forum you will get another infraction.

You don't have any infractions
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SpookedJunglist View Post
As for the list of all infractions. We have listed the important ones above. We have several others as well. We also have a custom infractions that is why don't create a list of all of the infractions.

If you are talking about asking about why you received an infraction it is not against the rules to ask us about it. However it has to stay private. Please PM a director and they will look into your infraction. If you ask why you got an infraction in the open forum you will get another infraction.

You don't have any infractions

I'm just asking again, but we once had a list you could check by clicking (only when you had an infraction) a box near your post number (not post count... I'm talking about the one you see in the upper right of this post, yep, the one that says #11
), which would have brung you to the infraction list page.
 

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Some call me... Bifford
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by gonX View Post
I'm just asking again, but we once had a list you could check by clicking (only when you had an infraction) a box near your post number (not post count... I'm talking about the one you see in the upper right of this post, yep, the one that says #11
), which would have brung you to the infraction list page.
I believe that went away when the infraction system got changed a few months ago. The Infraction list isn't that long, but as Spooky said there are also customized infractions that can be used. So instead of trying to list all of the infractions that you could get, it is easier to just think about the published site rules. In almost all cases they are the directly related.

For Example:

Quote:
||General Guidelines||

Usage of Overclock.net is contingent on the following:
  • You positively contribute to the forum and its membership
  • You aid in maintaining a friendly and professional atmosphere
  • You live within the rules and regulations set out by Overclock.net
  • You respect the site, its management and its members
  • You do not troll or attempt to stir up trouble within the community
If you break that rule you will get a Trolling infraction.

So in a round-about way the infractions are listed- in the TOS.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BFRD View Post
The Infraction list isn't that long, but as Spooky said there are also customized infractions that can be used.
Personally, I'd still like to see a comprehensive list of infractions published on the forum. If the list of infractions isn't that long (as said) I should think it'd be a pretty easy thing to do, no?

As I said previously, it is hard to follow the rules, or to avoid infractions, if you don't know what they are. The TOS is clear enough, but I'd imagine it would be a lot easier to avoid getting any infractions, if people knew what they all actually were.

I know that some infractions have been pointed out already in this thread and we can, to an extent, deduce what other's might be from the TOS, but I think it would really help all the members (especially new members) if they could read a full list of (non-"custom") infractions, so they know, for sure, what they must not do if they want to avoid getting them.

It's just a matter of compiling a list and putting it in a thread in an appropriate place, so that folks can see what they should avoid doing when participating in the forum.

Btw, what exactly is a "custom" infraction? Without knowing more about it, I have to say it sounds a bit arbitrary to me? Is a "custom" infraction an infraction mods can give for any reason they choose, or is there more to it?

Not trying to cause any hassles here btw. Just trying to understand exactly how the system now works and also forwarding my view on how it might be improved upon
.

I've been "out of the loop" for a little while, so just point me to the right thread/s if the issues I've raised have already been dealt with. Thanks!


Highly-Annoyed
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BFRD View Post
I believe that went away when the infraction system got changed a few months ago. The Infraction list isn't that long, but as Spooky said there are also customized infractions that can be used. So instead of trying to list all of the infractions that you could get, it is easier to just think about the published site rules. In almost all cases they are the directly related.

For Example:
[/LIST]If you break that rule you will get a Trolling infraction.

So in a round-about way the infractions are listed- in the TOS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
Personally, I'd still like to see a comprehensive list of infractions published on the forum. If the list of infractions isn't that long (as said) I should think it'd be a pretty easy thing to do, no?

As I said previously, it is hard to follow the rules, or to avoid infractions, if you don't know what they are. The TOS is clear enough, but I'd imagine it would be a lot easier to avoid getting any infractions, if people knew what they all actually were.

I know that some infractions have been pointed out already in this thread and we can, to an extent, deduce what other's might be from the TOS, but I think it would really help all the members (especially new members) if they could read a full list of (non-"custom") infractions, so they know, for sure, what they must not do if they want to avoid getting them.

It's just a matter of compiling a list and putting it in a thread in an appropriate place, so that folks can see what they should avoid doing when participating in the forum.

Btw, what exactly is a "custom" infraction? Without knowing more about it, I have to say it sounds a bit arbitrary to me? Is a "custom" infraction an infraction mods can give for any reason they choose, or is there more to it?

Not trying to cause any hassles here btw. Just trying to understand exactly how the system now works and also forwarding my view on how it might be improved upon
.

I've been "out of the loop" for a little while, so just point me to the right thread/s if the issues I've raised have already been dealt with. Thanks!


Highly-Annoyed
How wasn't that properly mentioned enough?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gonX View Post
How wasn't that properly mentioned enough?
Sorry gonX, not following you? Are you saying that my questions (can we have a list of non-"custom" infractions & what is a "custom"-infraction) have been answered somewhere already? If so, please provide a link as I'd be interested to read-up on this.

Thanks
.

Highly-Annoyed
 

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24 hr Bump.

Sooo.... Any word on the possibility of adding some extra transparency to the system, by creating and publishing a list of non-"custom" infractions for people to read and use to avoid making the mistakes that lead to infractions? It doesn't seem like a task beyond our excellent mod team and I do genuinely believe it will result in fewer infractions being necessary, as members will undoubtedly avoid infractions if they know exactly what they are? I still think it's a good (and relatively easy to implement) idea. Anybody else think it has potential?

Oh, also, I'm still really interested in learning what a "custom" infraction is, if somebody would be as kind as to explain the concept to me. It sounds like an interesting idea and I'd appreciate it if somebody (preferably a mod I guess) would help me to understand exactly what it means?


Thanks guys!
Keep up the good work!


Highly-Annoyed
 

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Some call me... Bifford
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Like I said earlier the Terms of Service is that list of mistakes to avoid. Any rule that is listed there if broken can lead to an infraction. A custom infraction helps out by being able to modify the severity of an infraction. If a member breaks a certain rule multiple times it is obvious that the point level isn't high enough to deter the member from breaking said rule. So by being able to modify the severity hopefully we can stop that member from breaking a rule. Another usage of a custom infraction are cases where there isn't a standard infraction that fits. A director can issue a custom infraction for anything they feel deserves it. While it is at the sole discretion of each director to issue a custom infraction we are still accountable for our actions. So if I were to issue a custom infraction for someone just because I didn't like them, rest assured that a) it wouldn't be reversed by someone else, and b) I would be around very long to do it again.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BFRD View Post
Like I said earlier the Terms of Service is that list of mistakes to avoid. Any rule that is listed there if broken can lead to an infraction. A custom infraction helps out by being able to modify the severity of an infraction. If a member breaks a certain rule multiple times it is obvious that the point level isn't high enough to deter the member from breaking said rule. So by being able to modify the severity hopefully we can stop that member from breaking a rule. Another usage of a custom infraction are cases where there isn't a standard infraction that fits. A director can issue a custom infraction for anything they feel deserves it. While it is at the sole discretion of each director to issue a custom infraction we are still accountable for our actions. So if I were to issue a custom infraction for someone just because I didn't like them, rest assured that a) it would be reversed by someone else, and b) I would be around very long to do it again.
I see. OK. Well, thanks for that explanation, I appreciate you took the time to clear things up for me
.

I now understand more about the custom infractions and how mods might use them. It is a good idea to be able to alter the point level of an infraction to reflect individual circumstances, I agree.

In the event that a custom infraction (that is, one that is created by a mod due to a lack of standard infraction) is created to give to a member, are there some kind of guidelines the govern the type of infractions that can be created. For example, (and yes, this is a little flippant) if I say I don't like cheese and a mod give's me an infraction for not liking cheese, is there some kind of system in place that looks automatically at the cheese infraction and decides it is ludicrous, automatically reversing it, or would I have to contact a community director (maybe?) to appeal the infraction? Essentially, are there automatic controls in place to ensure that the fair use of the system that has taken place up until now, remains as such, or is it down to the member being given the custom infraction to bring it's validity to the attention of other mods?

Also, you say that "the Terms of Service is [the] list of mistakes to avoid. Any rule that is listed there if broken can lead to an infraction.". Does this mean therefore that there will be no publication of any list of "standard" infractions, separate to the TOS, because the list of standard infractions and the TOS are in fact one and the same? I'm still a little confused over this point to be honest. Are you saying that there is a list of standard (non-custom) infractions that mods are aware of that are based on the TOS, but that hasn't been published on the forum in full, for members to see, or that there is no such list and the only infractions that exist (extraneous to the custom ones which may or may not exist yet) are the rules laid out in the TOS?

One last question to ask, if I may. When custom infractions are created for the first time and no appeal is lodged by the member/s that receive/s them, are those newly created infractions then added to the TOS rules, or are they kept in a separate litany elsewhere and if so will that list be published for forum members to see, in order to help them avoid these newly created infractions in future?

Sorry if all this seems a bit convoluted, but this is the thread that explains how the infractions system works, so I thought it was pertinent to ask my questions here
.

Thanks for your time in clarifying these points for me
.

Highly-Annoyed
 

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Some call me... Bifford
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
In the event that a custom infraction (that is, one that is created by a mod due to a lack of standard infraction) is created to give to a member, are there some kind of guidelines the govern the type of infractions that can be created. For example, (and yes, this is a little flippant) if I say I don't like cheese and a mod give's me an infraction for not liking cheese, is there some kind of system in place that looks automatically at the cheese infraction and decides it is ludicrous, automatically reversing it, or would I have to contact a community director (maybe?) to appeal the infraction? Essentially, are there automatic controls in place to ensure that the fair use of the system that has taken place up until now, remains as such, or is it down to the member being given the custom infraction to bring it's validity to the attention of other mods?
Anytime a director gives a member an infraction or warning, a post is automatically made in one of the director forums. Any director can look at this forum and comment about any infraction or warning that has been posted. All aspects of the warning/infraction are clearly visible, so we can decide if anything further needs to happen. There is no automated system for moderating custom infractions. Usually when a member complains about an infraction the director may then post the PM content.

**Just a helpful hint here, if you want to complain do so politely. If you are rude to us when airing your complaint, it is unlikely we will give you much consideration. However, if you write a well worded professional response we are much more likely to consider a reversal. Common sense should say that being rude while asking for a favor wouldn't get you very far, but to each his own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
Also, you say that "the Terms of Service is [the] list of mistakes to avoid. Any rule that is listed there if broken can lead to an infraction.". Does this mean therefore that there will be no publication of any list of "standard" infractions, separate to the TOS, because the list of standard infractions and the TOS are in fact one and the same? I'm still a little confused over this point to be honest. Are you saying that there is a list of standard (non-custom) infractions that mods are aware of that are based on the TOS, but that hasn't been published on the forum in full, for members to see, or that there is no such list and the only infractions that exist (extraneous to the custom ones which may or may not exist yet) are the rules laid out in the TOS?
Yes, there is a list. No, I will not post it here. I think that it brings across the wrong message. The message should be "obey the rules of the site". This is not exactly the same as "avoid these specific things". I believe that in the end asking our members to simply abide by the TOS is a much safer modis operandi. Especially since that list isn't comprehensive because of the custom infractions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
One last question to ask, if I may. When custom infractions are created for the first time and no appeal is lodged by the member/s that receive/s them, are those newly created infractions then added to the TOS rules, or are they kept in a separate litany elsewhere and if so will that list be published for forum members to see, in order to help them avoid these newly created infractions in future?
In some cases we will add specifics to the TOS where it was not clear. Piracy was added to the TOS when we started cracking down on that specific item. It was previously covered by the "must be legal" rule, but a specific line was added when a large number of Piracy infractions where given out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed View Post
Sorry if all this seems a bit convoluted, but this is the thread that explains how the infractions system works, so I thought it was pertinent to ask my questions here
.

Thanks for you time in clarifying these points for me
.

Highly-Annoyed
Thank you for asking questions. This thread was created to help everyone understand the system. In part to avoid infractions, and in part to not overreact if they get one. In many cases a poor reaction to an infraction will generate a new infraction. If that cycle goes unchecked a member may find themself being banned for the simplest of violations because they dug a hole to deep to get out.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BFRD View Post
Anytime a director gives a member an infraction or warning, a post is automatically made in one of the director forums. Any director can look at this forum and comment about any infraction or warning that has been posted. All aspects of the warning/infraction are clearly visible, so we can decide if anything further needs to happen. There is no automated system for moderating custom infractions. Usually when a member complains about an infraction the director may then post the PM content.

**Just a helpful hint here, if you want to complain do so politely. If you are rude to us when airing your complaint, it is unlikely we will give you much consideration. However, if you write a well worded professional response we are much more likely to consider a reversal. Common sense should say that being rude while asking for a favor wouldn't get you very far, but to each his own.

Yes, there is a list. No, I will not post it here. I think that it brings across the wrong message. The message should be "obey the rules of the site". This is not exactly the same as "avoid these specific things". I believe that in the end asking our members to simply abide by the TOS is a much safer modis operandi. Especially since that list isn't comprehensive because of the custom infractions.

In some cases we will add specifics to the TOS where it was not clear. Piracy was added to the TOS when we started cracking down on that specific item. It was previously covered by the "must be legal" rule, but a specific line was added when a large number of Piracy infractions where given out.

Thank you for asking questions. This thread was created to help everyone understand the system. In part to avoid infractions, and in part to not overreact if they get one. In many cases a poor reaction to an infraction will generate a new infraction. If that cycle goes unchecked a member may find themself being banned for the simplest of violations because they dug a hole to deep to get out.
Thanks for your response BFRD
.

I'm still of the opinion that a list of infractions would be a more positive, than negative addition to the site. In my opinion, I don't think a published list would cause the wrong impression of the forum to new, or existing members, but I do understand why you feel it could and I appreciate that you don't want to give the wrong impression.

Personally, I find it slightly frustrating not being able to have access to a non-custom infraction list. I can understand the argument that publishing a list could lead to people, perhaps, feeling restricted, or overwhelmed by regulations and that a new published layer of rules might give some people the wrong impression about how the forum is run, but I think people here are, on the whole, mature enough to appreciate that the forum has to be regulated, that it is not an easy task and that the infraction system makes the forum better for the people who genuinely want to positively contribute to it. I would weigh the potential of giving the wrong impression, against the unarguably good impression given by having a more transparent system and the maturity of members to deal with the implications of that transparency without causing problems. It my estimation, the worth of the additional transparency outweighs the potentially negative effects of having it.

Anyway, I know you guys do a good job keeping the forum functional for those of us who wish to be involved with it in a positive way, so I wont press on with the issue of additional transparency further.

Thanks for answering my questions candidly and explaining how things work in more depth
.

Highly-Annoyed
 
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