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Discussion Starter #1
Was planning on getting Ryzen 3000, but then I saw that 9900k is still king in games, Zen 2 while clearly superior in things like Cinebench, is not superior across the board, so that made me hesitate and didn't make the purchase the day it came out.
Instead I saw some rich asian student selling his used x99 kit to get Ryzen 3000, and I decided to get that instead.
It was a Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550.

These are prices for CPU+mobo+32GB RAM only
All the new builds here have +13% HST included because I'm Canadian.
"IPC" here has no scientific proof, I basically looked at reviews and "eyeballed" them, they're estimates.
All the Ryzen build use memory that are ~$50 more expensive, because they are more sensitive to RAM performance.
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Sure there will be some combination of cheap mobo+2700x or 3700x that will end up roughly the same price, but I don't think the extra performance is worth the other deficiencies.

Interesting observation here is that Ryzen 3000 isn't that good for mainstream, a 3800x build overall costs about the same as a 9900k build. But the 3900x is much cheaper and faster than the 9820x, that's great for AMD, and I hope Intel will drop their HEDT prices to compete better.

So that's why I decided to go with 5960x, so much cheaper. Forgot to include Threadripper here, but it'll be about same price as 3900x for same core count, lower performance but without the PGA and mainstream drawbacks. I don't think that would've made sense because I'm mostly just gaming here.

When it comes to games, what performance you need is heavily dependent on what performance do the consoles have. Next-gen consoles will have 8c zen2 but at like 3Ghz or something, cuz it'll have to be cheap and power efficient. With the 5960x you can easily power through the IPC difference when it's clocked that low. So chances are good that I won't be CPU limited in any of the next gen games. Of course, Unity engine games with god awful optimization will still be problematic.

Another reason I decided to not go all-out on Ryzen 3000 is how strong Intel's SunnyCove is in terms of IPC, even though their fab is still ****, we can tell it's very strong because 10nm SunnyCove cores are 4.1Ghz are beating 9th gen at 4.5-4.7 Ghz, I believe that's a bigger lead than Zen2. So chances are good that when Intel sorts out their ****ty fabs, they'll be at least on par with Zen3 in terms of IPC. So I believe that will be a better time to buy, whether I end up buying Zen3 or Intel 10th gen, at the very least there will be more competition, lower prices and better products. Right now AMD is kind of sandbagging Intel with Zen2, and charging relatively high prices.

Also, I very much enjoyed the manual tuning with Intel processor with tones of headroom, and a true flagship mobo. With Ryzen 3000 it's basically plug and play, not much you can do at all.
 

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You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :).
 

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You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :).

While I tend to agree with you, I would just like to point out that he's talking about $550 CAD, which is about $420 US.
 

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I have both the 5960x and a ryzen 3600, guess which one is going to get gaming dedicated.(not Intel) Intels older CPUs are losing ground thanks to security flaws. To each their own I suppose...
 

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You might regret this!
 

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You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :).
32GiB (4 x 8GiB) of DDR4-3000 is going for $140 new and his is CL15. 5960x's used on ebay R going for >$300 USD. He also gets 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes.
 

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So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :).
it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.
 

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I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.
 
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So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :).
it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.
Why would they not include the 200$ R5 3600?
 

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since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?
 

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But wouldn't it have been cheaper still to get a secondhand 1700 and have roughly the same perf with the benefit of a motherboard that might take a much faster 12 or 16 core chip later?

I also can't understand what the 9900k being best in gaming has to do with buying a chip that's slower than both CL and Zen 2 in gaming, especially one that sits closer to Zen 1 gaming performance :headscrat.

As long as you're happy with your choice and what it does for you that's all that matters, just saying I don't think I could come to the same conclusion based on the choices/info.
I just think there are better options for old and secondhand.
 

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since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?
What it think is they want to make the other Ryzens shine. The op is canadian and prices in their country is ridiculously high. I think op made a wise decison.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
You chose this Dinosaur from 2014 instead of cool,low power, much faster CPU, much advanced platform and payed so much? sry, doesn't make sense for me, under $400 maybe.
But if you are happy- it's all that matters :).
It's faster but not "much" faster by any means of the imagination.
To me "much faster" means 50% more single thread.

Also Ryzen 3000 is fast and low power but I don't think it's cool at all, it's just made from low grade reject server chips, where as the 5960x is a top quality, complete chip. Also there's nothing "advanced" about fans on chipsets. They can't even bother to make an effective heat sink because they want their boards to look like alien space ships.

And for the same price of $570 USD, I'd be looking at bottom end trash MB to go with the 3600. I would much rather prefer an ASUS ROG board.

But wouldn't it have been cheaper still to get a secondhand 1700 and have roughly the same perf with the benefit of a motherboard that might take a much faster 12 or 16 core chip later?

I also can't understand what the 9900k being best in gaming has to do with buying a chip that's slower than both CL and Zen 2 in gaming, especially one that sits closer to Zen 1 gaming performance :headscrat.

As long as you're happy with your choice and what it does for you that's all that matters, just saying I don't think I could come to the same conclusion based on the choices/info.
I just think there are better options for old and secondhand.
Yes it would, but there are massive down sides to Zen 1 and Zen+ with inter-core latency. Also I never wanted any of the mainstream boards, Even if I choose AMD it will have to be threadripper, but then thread ripper has too many threads that I don't need.

Also I think you're underestimating Intel, the 5960x is a match for Zen+ not Zen1 considering the clock speed advantages.
since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?
Who's gonna run these old Intel chips at stock? They all had so much headroom.

AMD is for some reason ridiculously fast in Cinebench, but not so much in other things especially games. So I don't think 3600 is going to beat the 5960x in Cinebench MT.
The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me.

Yes I can absolutely sell these as well, but I think I'll use these to wait for next-gen. My old X79 has so many problems and quirks it takes like 5 minutes to boot up because the lack of UEFI, no NVME, and BIOS bugs that aren't getting fixed.
 

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While you are trying very hard to justify your purchase I don't think anyone should care. If you do nothing with your PC other than game on a clean install, with nothing running in the background, then Intel will serve you wonderfully.

So, enjoy your purchase and be happy to have a blue chip in your PC rather than a red one.

Edit: personally I thank AMD for giving us defective server chips, I highly appreciate the ECC support, which is why I have bought AMD for the past decade and will continue buying AMD.
 

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It's nice to see OCN's AMD evangelists get rather upset that you didn't purchase AMD - and then for them to completely disregard your reasoning and research.


You have to keep in mind something like my 9900K + Aorus Master + 32GB DDR4 3800mhz cost me around CAD 1900 including ON's 13% tax (Jan 2019). So CAD 750 for that is 253% cheaper.



And honestly, 750 CAD for that CPU, motherboard and RAM is a good deal. Sure you're losing out of performance but that price to performance is pretty neat. I'm guessing the OP is going to use this to tide him over until 10nm Intel or Zen refresh which is more compelling of an upgrade for him/her. Plus we don't know what CPU/etc. they came from.





What GPU are you paring with that out of interest?


Additionally: Anandtech article of 5960x v 2700x: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1317?vs=2110
 

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I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.
 

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Hi,
Looking at 6900 chips 8 core running at 800.us new 5960 and board/ ram for that price and works you chose well even a used 5960 would sell pretty fast and near probably what you paid for the entire system :thumb:
 

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I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.
For that price he, indeed, got a good deal as that RAM would cost me 2/3 of that 550 he spent. As I said, I hope he's happy with his purchase and enjoys it for years to come.
 

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So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :).

it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.



This looks cool and all on paper. But seems kind of pointless, you can't divorce a CPUs performance from clock speeds. At least and still have a fair test. Pretty much all of those Intel chips can do another GHz no problem.

I like the chart because I am rooting for the underdog. But in real life those goes would close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.
It's nice to see OCN's AMD evangelists get rather upset that you didn't purchase AMD - and then for them to completely disregard your reasoning and research.


You have to keep in mind something like my 9900K + Aorus Master + 32GB DDR4 3800mhz cost me around CAD 1900 including ON's 13% tax (Jan 2019). So CAD 750 for that is 253% cheaper.



And honestly, 750 CAD for that CPU, motherboard and RAM is a good deal. Sure you're losing out of performance but that price to performance is pretty neat. I'm guessing the OP is going to use this to tide him over until 10nm Intel or Zen refresh which is more compelling of an upgrade for him/her. Plus we don't know what CPU/etc. they came from.





What GPU are you paring with that out of interest?


Additionally: Anandtech article of 5960x v 2700x: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1317?vs=2110
Did you guys read the first post? Its not a "hey i got a great deal on used 5960x and decided against buying anything new for now." When i read it all i see is OP talking about how 9900k is superior in gaming and AMD cannot do anything right and just sucks for everyone. Everything in the post is about how the OP has disdain for AMD and how intel is superior. Like was he really considering AMD at all?

Look at his reply as well "The 3600 will be faster in games but I game at 4k60 so CPU performance is not a big issue for me." Really now? So why make a post about how intel cpu is better than AMD even today. Like here is another Pro intel thread and citing Intel gaming performance as king. YET GAMES AT 4k!? So now why even bother talking about whats superior or not, just would have been easy to say "i got a awesome deal"

just for reference 4k gaming on 2080ti
 
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